I'll take milk?

[VictoryinJesus]

Hello friend,
Unfortunately bbyrd009 is not allowed to answer for himself here any more. So far he has not responded to me on two other forums where we are both members regarding all of the answers on this thread to his words. When he does I hope to be able to convey what he says to anyone here that is interested.
Give God the glory!

miss his input greatly here. Even in the OP there is no mistaking he is unique and needful but banned for Life

 

[robert derrick]

Keep in mind maam, the growth of a Christian is eternal. Even though there are mature ones in God's congregation, we are all still infants in the truth. Most of us will not come to absolute truth until the end of the millennial reign of Christ, and none of us will ever come to know all that God knows Ecc 3:11

Growth really starts with the first act, no doubt virtually everyone has heard about Jesus on the earth, but it is when that person acts upon that knowledge that they become what is called an infant in the faith. Keep in mind that as such they require milk, or in other words the simpler things of the faith. Even Jesus made note of this when he told his apostles: (John 16:12, 13) . . .“I still have many things to say to you, but you are not able to bear them now. 13 However, when that one comes, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth. . . Jesus sent that helper to them on Pentecost of 33 CE. So we start with the foundation, and build from there.

Since Jn 17:3 is really the starting step of everlasting life, and the first thing you learn about someone prior to forming a relationship is learning their name, so usually I very early on in conversations with people make known God's name Jehovah to them, kind of an introduction to those who do not know His name. You know when you ask someone God's name, few are able to say it, but when you say it, they have heard of it. Nice chatting with you maam, I enjoyed your post, and see that you give things a lot of thought. Thanks much for your response.

"Keep in mind that as such they require milk, or in other words the simpler things of the faith."
The point is well made, in that Paul was concerned that the believers he was addressing were stuck in place. They weren't growing, developing as Christians. They had not yet, or rather would not 'go on' from the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ...

And of course the very first step and principle of the faith and doctrine of Jesus Christ is believing on His name. (John 1) (1 John 3)

 

[robert derrick]

Sadly when Paul penned that, some in the congregation had stopped progressing in the truth.

That is the simple crux of the matter. The believers were not 'growing' in the faith. It is not milk that is the problem, but being stuck on milk and refusing strong meat becomes the problem:
"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow..."
"and the seed should spring and grow up..."
"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him..."

There is no need of diving into some useless and endless discussion about being a 'babe' vs 'full grown'. A babe is a newbie and adults are full grown be reason of learning and experience (Heb 5:14). Nor especially does some carnalized debate about milk, meat, manna, and vegetarianism need be brought in.

"The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6) The Kingdom of God is not about 'meat and drink' (Rom 14), but about spiritual and doctrinal growth. "Because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." (1 John 2)

There is nothing wrong with the milk of the Word: "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby." (1 Peter 2)

Nothing in Scripture suggests we should leave it behind and not drink it anymore: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures." (1 Cor 15)

But Paul is simply reminding all of us of the danger of not growing up from babyhood: Not moving forward to becoming adults in the faith, especially if they is persistent and willfully done. The analogy is simple and indisputable:

No parent wants to see their children remain crawling on their hands and knees, when they ought be walking and running freely, especially if it is because they refuse to stand and do so. Afterall, we are in a race, the race of faith (1 Cor 9), and the first step in the race begins with standing for the faith. (Rom 5)

"Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD." (1 Sam 12)

Further every little child must learn the things of this life adequately to function properly and successfully as adults, and not be left with constant caretakers and providers. We are to learn to provide for our own (1 Tim 5). And so it is with growth in the body of Christ and the commonwealth of Israel, into which we have been born.

There are at least 2 written dangers of not growing strong by the meat in the Word of faith:

1. If we do not grow in the faith as expected by God, then we die and are cut off, i.e. we must bear the necessary fruit of spiritual growth: (John 15)

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (Matthew 21)

2. If we do not grow in the knowledge of the Word, which only begins with it's 'sincere milk', then we are in danger of being deceived, seduced, and lured away from the faith of Jesus, because we know not the Scriptures as we ought to know them (Heb 5:12):

"Beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 3)

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." (Eph 6)

Simply put, perpetual babes that refuse to be skillful in the word of knowledge become easy pickings for the devil's devices and the snares of false teachers that deceitfully mishandle the Scriptures (Heb 5)(2 Cor 4):

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." (1 Cor 2)

So both the milk and the meat of the Word of God are necessary and good for running the race and standing strong in the faith and bearing fruit to the good pleasure and will of God and not being deceived into falling into false ditches along the way.

But if we remain babes only desiring milk and refusing the meat, then we come short of the grace and salvation Christ died for (Heb 4):

Believing on Jesus' name, reading the Bible and praying, giving in offerings at church, not living riotously...are the good first steps of the sincere milk of faith, but these things can in fact become mere religious formality and atrophy of faith, if we do not move forward to the strong meat of discerning the righteousness of God from our own self-righteousness, of knowing the difference between a lie of the devil and the truth of Scripture, of having sober minded judgement in all things, of mature understanding to love only the good and reject the evil:

"These ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

"Keep in mind that as such they require milk, or in other words the simpler things of the faith."
The point is well made, in that Paul was concerned that the believers he was addressing were stuck in place. They weren't growing, developing as Christians. They had not yet, or rather would not 'go on' from the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ...

And of course the very first step and principle of the faith and doctrine of Jesus Christ is believing on His name. (John 1) (1 John 3)

a few thoughts is: to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit. Then does it matter to walk carnal and reject “would not go on”, would not continue on to perfection, when (maybe I’ve misunderstood) where He said these things do not continue, “move on” do not endure, can not bear, “would not go on”?

 

[Robert Gwin]

"Keep in mind that as such they require milk, or in other words the simpler things of the faith."
The point is well made, in that Paul was concerned that the believers he was addressing were stuck in place. They weren't growing, developing as Christians. They had not yet, or rather would not 'go on' from the First Principles of the Doctrine of Christ...

And of course the very first step and principle of the faith and doctrine of Jesus Christ is believing on His name. (John 1) (1 John 3)

May I ask what is His name Robert? Romans 10:13 points out if we call on His name, we shall be saved, was that referring to God or Jesus sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

That is the simple crux of the matter. The believers were not 'growing' in the faith. It is not milk that is the problem, but being stuck on milk and refusing strong meat becomes the problem:
"Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow..."
"and the seed should spring and grow up..."
"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him..."

There is no need of diving into some useless and endless discussion about being a 'babe' vs 'full grown'. A babe is a newbie and adults are full grown be reason of learning and experience (Heb 5:14). Nor especially does some carnalized debate about milk, meat, manna, and vegetarianism need be brought in.

"The words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life." (John 6) The Kingdom of God is not about 'meat and drink' (Rom 14), but about spiritual and doctrinal growth. "Because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one." (1 John 2)

There is nothing wrong with the milk of the Word: "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby." (1 Peter 2)

Nothing in Scripture suggests we should leave it behind and not drink it anymore: "I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures." (1 Cor 15)

But Paul is simply reminding all of us of the danger of not growing up from babyhood: Not moving forward to becoming adults in the faith, especially if they is persistent and willfully done. The analogy is simple and indisputable:

No parent wants to see their children remain crawling on their hands and knees, when they ought be walking and running freely, especially if it is because they refuse to stand and do so. Afterall, we are in a race, the race of faith (1 Cor 9), and the first step in the race begins with standing for the faith. (Rom 5)

"Now therefore stand still, that I may reason with you before the LORD of all the righteous acts of the LORD." (1 Sam 12)

Further every little child must learn the things of this life adequately to function properly and successfully as adults, and not be left with constant caretakers and providers. We are to learn to provide for our own (1 Tim 5). And so it is with growth in the body of Christ and the commonwealth of Israel, into which we have been born.

There are at least 2 written dangers of not growing strong by the meat in the Word of faith:

1. If we do not grow in the faith as expected by God, then we die and are cut off, i.e. we must bear the necessary fruit of spiritual growth: (John 15)

"And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (Matthew 21)

2. If we do not grow in the knowledge of the Word, which only begins with it's 'sincere milk', then we are in danger of being deceived, seduced, and lured away from the faith of Jesus, because we know not the Scriptures as we ought to know them (Heb 5:12):

"Beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 3)

"Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand." (Eph 6)

Simply put, perpetual babes that refuse to be skillful in the word of knowledge become easy pickings for the devil's devices and the snares of false teachers that deceitfully mishandle the Scriptures (Heb 5)(2 Cor 4):

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God." (1 Cor 2)

So both the milk and the meat of the Word of God are necessary and good for running the race and standing strong in the faith and bearing fruit to the good pleasure and will of God and not being deceived into falling into false ditches along the way.

But if we remain babes only desiring milk and refusing the meat, then we come short of the grace and salvation Christ died for (Heb 4):

Believing on Jesus' name, reading the Bible and praying, giving in offerings at church, not living riotously...are the good first steps of the sincere milk of faith, but these things can in fact become mere religious formality and atrophy of faith, if we do not move forward to the strong meat of discerning the righteousness of God from our own self-righteousness, of knowing the difference between a lie of the devil and the truth of Scripture, of having sober minded judgement in all things, of mature understanding to love only the good and reject the evil:

"These ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." (Matthew 23)

I fail to understand the point of this post Bob, you definitely know what Paul was talking about, and you accurately stated what it meant. You as well pointed out that one is expected to grow in the faith, yet you said many words as if you didn't actually agree with that. I am definitely in agreement and stated such in my post that we are to press on to maturity, and actually beyond in the faith. A Christian will never retire from serving God, we all sign on for an eternity.

 

[robert derrick]

I fail to understand the point of this post Bob, you definitely know what Paul was talking about, and you accurately stated what it meant. You as well pointed out that one is expected to grow in the faith, yet you said many words as if you didn't actually agree with that. I am definitely in agreement and stated such in my post that we are to press on to maturity, and actually beyond in the faith. A Christian will never retire from serving God, we all sign on for an eternity.

Can you be specific?

We agree in the necessity of growing, and I went on to point out why: danger of becoming religious but dead, and/or being to childish to recognized deception and seduction away from the faith of Jesus according to Scripture...

I'm sure I could have posted what I just said the first time, and then expanded on it at this time...

 

[robert derrick]

a few thoughts is: to walk in the flesh or in the Spirit. Then does it matter to walk carnal and reject “would not go on”, would not continue on to perfection, when (maybe I’ve misunderstood) where He said these things do not continue, “move on” do not endure, can not bear, “would not go on”?

?? Clarify please.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Can you be specific?

We agree in the necessity of growing, and I went on to point out why: danger of becoming religious but dead, and/or being to childish to recognized deception and seduction away from the faith of Jesus according to Scripture...

I'm sure I could have posted what I just said the first time, and then expanded on it at this time...

It appears that we agreed, yet you posted so much information to further the point. I simply didn't understand why, like you said milk/meat is not that important and was simply an illustration used to bring home the point of Christian advancement. Jesus used a plow to illustrate it.

So simply put are we in agreement that it means Christian advancement? One starts as an infant in the truth, and then presses on to maturity, taking in the deeper teachings of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

?? Clarify please.

was asking or considering the still carnal and not able to bear. I think it was your post saying the refusal to move on which makes me think of the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.

then also what are they not yet able to bear in ‘to bear My name’?

 

[robert derrick]

was asking or considering the still carnal and not able to bear. I think it was your post saying the refusal to move on which makes me think of the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him.

then also what are they not yet able to bear in ‘to bear My name’?

Yes, that is the result: returning from whence we came. Looking back...returning to the wallowing in the mire...falling away...returning to the natural mind.

Everyone born again begins in the Spirit, becomes Spiritual with the faith of Jesus in the heart, and since we are strongly admonished to continue in the Spirit and follow the Spirit and walk after the Spirit, then if we sort of 'halt in place', we are in danger of turning back to the carnal...We no longer receive the things of the Spirit.

Whether by temptation, deception, persecution, or simply becoming religious only, relying on religious works of a carnal law.

"Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" (Gal 3)

The main question to me is this: Why would a born again Christian, loving the Lord Jesus from the heart, and desiring the sincere milk of the Word to grow thereby, then fail or refuse to go on to strong meat of the Word and remain with the milk only? Start the race on the necessary milk, but not finish the race on the necessary strong meat to endure to the end?

Sort of like, man cannot live by bread alone, and Christians cannot run by milk alone. We are to live and run by every word from God, both milk and strong meat...