A Pale Horse...a Green Horse

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whirlwind

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Revelation 6:7-8 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.


Revelation 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


I had to laugh today as the thought came to me....the translation of a pale horse is...a green horse. What is now taking over everything? Think green, buy green, save the earth, hug the trees. "Don't hurt the grass, any green thing or tree."

As written...a green horse has been given power over the fourth part of the earth. And, who sits on that horse? :unsure:



.
 

Templar81

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How do we equate green or greenness with death though?

perhaps if Greenw as equated with nature then it coudl also represent the destructive forces of nature.

War, famine and pestilene kill people and so do hurricanes (or whirlwinds), tsunamis, earthquakes and floods.

Here's antoher thought; when the people of teh world are killed off by war, famine and pestilence and there is no-one left alive then nature would start to reclaim the earth. If a field is left untended then nature re-claims it or perhaps conquers it.
 

aspen

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How do we equate green or greenness with death though?

perhaps if Greenw as equated with nature then it coudl also represent the destructive forces of nature.

War, famine and pestilene kill people and so do hurricanes (or whirlwinds), tsunamis, earthquakes and floods.

Here's antoher thought; when the people of teh world are killed off by war, famine and pestilence and there is no-one left alive then nature would start to reclaim the earth. If a field is left untended then nature re-claims it or perhaps conquers it.



A corpse takes on a pale greenish color.

Thinking that environmentalism is equated with death is just another way Satan is making something good into something we should fear.

 

bud02

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Just give me a garden full of trees to eat freely from and to walk in with my Father, His Son, and our Family and I'm loving it!!!

I'm with you on that Robbie.
Just a small quite place, way outback please Lord.
 

Templar81

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Aspen!
You could be right about pale/green horses refering to the decay of corpses, but I want to make it crystal clear that I did certainly at no point equate a pale/green hrose with environmentalism, I talked about the destructive forces of nature and the simple fact that anything left alone for long enough is re-claimed by nature.
 

TexUs

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Why is this translated "pale" in all versions, I wonder?
The root of the word comes from a green herb, I can't understand any translation other than "green" for this. Unless the translators in all cases went from translation to interpretation and figured "Green horses are unnatural, it can't be that".
 

bud02

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name='TexUs' timestamp='1295967063' post='98237']
Why is this translated "pale" in all versions, I wonder?
The root of the word comes from a green herb, I can't understand any translation other than "green" for this. Unless the translators in all cases went from translation to interpretation and figured "Green horses are unnatural, it can't be that".

At one time when I was studying I came across a writing about languages, this writer went into great detail about the similarities and more importantly the metamorphosis of many that lead to English. This writer was convinced that English is a divine inspired language. I can find the article its been a long time, but I did find this.

©1989 Samuel C. Gipp. Reproduced by permission

QUESTION: If there is a perfect Bible in English, doesn't there also have to be a perfect Bible in French, and German, and Japanese, etc?

ANSWER: No. God has always given His word to one people in one language to do one job; convert the world. The supposition that there must be a perfect translation in every language is erroneous and inconsistent with God's proven practice.

EXPLANATION: This explanation comes in three parts: the Old Testament, the New Testament, the entire Bible.

(1) The Old Testament:

It is an accepted fact that, with the exception of some portions of Ezra and Daniel, the Old Testament was written in Hebrew. It is also accepted that it was divinely given to the Jews.

Thus God initiates His pattern of operation. He gave His words to one people in only one language.

God, apparently unintimidated by modem scholarship, did not feel obligated to supply His words in Egyptian, Chaldian, Syrian, Ethiopian, or any other of the languages in use on the earth at the time the Old Testament was written.

The Old Testament was given exclusively to the Jews. Anyone desiring the word of God would have to convert to Judaism. Ample provision was made for such occurrences.

(2) New Testament:

It is also an accepted fact that the New Testament was written in Greek. Koine Greek to be exact. Again, the Lord apparently saw no reason to inspire a perfect original in all of the languages of the world extant at that time.

Only this time, instead of giving His Book to a nation, such as Israel, He simply gave it to the Christians who were told to go out and convert the world. (Matthew 28:19) His choice of Greek as the language of the New Testament was obvious in that it was the predominant language of the world at the time.

(3) The Entire Bible:

It is obvious that God now needed to get both His Old Testament and His New Testament welded together in a language that was common to the world. Only English can be considered such a language.

The English language had been developing for many centuries until the late sixteenth century. About that time it finally reached a state of excellence that no language on earth has ever attained. It would seem that God did the rest. He chose this perfect language for the consummation of his perfect Book.

First England and later the United States swept the globe as the most powerful nations on earth, establishing English in all corners of the globe as either a primary or secondary language.

Today nations who do not speak English must still teach English to many of their citizens. Even nations antagonistic to the West such as Russia and Red China must teach English to their business and military personnel.

Thus in choosing English in which to combine His two Testaments, God chose the only language which the world would know. Just as He has shown in His choosing only one language for the Old Testament and only one language for the New Testament, He continued that practice by combining those two testaments in only one language.

But let us not forget the fact that, by choosing the English language, God has given us a mandate to carry out the great commission. He did not give us a perfect Bible to set placidly on the coffee table in our living room to let our guests know that we are "religious". He did not give it to us to press a flower from our first date, or to have a record of our family tree. He gave it to us to read! And to tuck under our arm and share with the lost world the good news of Jesus' payment for sin that is found inside.

Let's get busy!


And here is an interesting definition of Pale look at #2 as a noun.


pale 1
 /peɪl/ Show Spelled [peyl] Show IPA adjective, pal·er, pal·est, verb, paled, pal·ing. –adjective
1. lacking intensity of color; colorless or whitish: a pale complexion.
2. of a low degree of chroma, saturation, or purity; approaching white or gray: pale yellow.
3. not bright or brilliant; dim: the pale moon.
4. faint or feeble; lacking vigor: a pale protest.


pale 2
 /peɪl/ Show Spelled [peyl] Show IPA noun, verb, paled, pal·ing. –noun
1. a stake or picket, as of a fence.
2. an enclosing or confining barrier; enclosure.
3. an enclosed area.
4. limits; bounds: outside the pale of his jurisdiction.
5. a district or region within designated bounds.
6. ( initial capital letter
thinsp.png
) Also called English Pale, Irish Pale. a district in eastern Ireland included in the Angevin Empire of King Henry II and his successors.
7. an ordinary in the form of a broad vertical stripe at the center of an escutcheon.
8. Shipbuilding . a shore used inside to support the deck beams of a hull under construction. –verb (used with object)
9. to enclose with pales; fence.
10. to encircle or encompass. —Idiom 11. beyond the pale, beyond the limits of propriety, courtesy, protection, safety, etc.: Their public conduct is certainly beyond the pale.
 

Templar81

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Let's have a look at the Vulgate then!

Revelations 6:8
et ecce equus pallidus et qui sedebat desuper nomen illi Mors et inferus sequebatur eum et data est illi potestas super quattuor partes terrae interficere gladio fame et morte et bestiis terrae

So the Vulgate uses the word; "pallidus" and that just means pale, which only brings us back to square one.



Oh and here's something I just lifted from wikipedia that mght make more sense of it.

The fourth and final horseman is named Death. Of all the riders, he is the only one to whom the text itself explicitly gives a name. Still others apply the names "Pestilence"[sup][9][/sup] or "Plague" to this horseman, based on alternative translations of the Bible (such as the Jerusalem Bible). Unlike the other three, he is not described carrying a weapon/object, instead he is followed by Hades. However, illustrations—like those above—commonly depict him carrying a scythe (like the Grim Reaper) or a sword.

The color of Death's horse is written as khlôros (χλωρóς) in the original Koine Greek, which is often translated as "pale", though "ashen", "pale green", and "yellowish green"[sup][8][/sup] are other possible interpretations. The color suggests the sickly pallor of a corpse.[sup][4][/sup][sup][10][/sup] The natural colors of horse coats that could be indicated include dun, palomino, buckskin, or one of several color variants with dilution genes.[sup][citation needed][/sup]

The verse beginning "they were given power over a fourth of the earth" may refer solely to Death and Hades, or it may summarize the roles of all four horsemen; scholars disagree on this point.
 

TexUs

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I really don't care about the Vulgate.
The original Greek is chloros, which comes from chloe, which is a green herb.
 

Templar81

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O fcourse you don'tno-one does anymore. The Vulgate is probably the most defunct and redundant translation of the Bible in existance because the scholarship is there to go to the original translations.

The reason I mentioned it is because some of the KJV comes from the Vulgate translation as well as the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

Question for Apsen adn Selene; Does the Jerusalem Bible come from a direct translation of the Vulgate or does it come from the originals?
 

bud02

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Anyone that calls English an excellent language is, humbly, a moron.

LOL :lol: Today anyone that wants a career in science, research advancement, industry, politics, ect and doesn't know English is a moron.
 

TexUs

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LOL :lol: Today anyone that wants a career in science, research advancement, industry, politics, ect and doesn't know English is a moron.

I have a feeling you don't know the Greek language that well. English sucks. Anyone that knows Greek would agree.

English is not a superior language by any stretch of the imagination.
 

bud02

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I have a feeling you don't know the Greek language that well. English sucks. Anyone that knows Greek would agree.

English is not a superior language by any stretch of the imagination.

I have a feeling you can't see the forest for the trees.
If its is and was superior then why is it not the worlds predominate language?
Don't get me wrong Greek is a very descriptive language.
But I'm like others here and find no satisfaction in arguing trivial points like this. You must have missed my posting of the definition of pale 2 as a noun.
If you apply those definitions to the riders horse it makes much more sense than green :p

pale 2
 /peɪl/ Show Spelled [peyl] Show IPA noun, verb, paled, pal·ing. –noun
1. a stake or picket, as of a fence.
2. an enclosing or confining barrier; enclosure.
3. an enclosed area.
4. limits; bounds: outside the pale of his jurisdiction.
5. a district or region within designated bounds.
6. ( initial capital letter
thinsp.png
) Also called English Pale, Irish Pale. a district in eastern Ireland included in the Angevin Empire of King Henry II and his successors.
7. an ordinary in the form of a broad vertical stripe at the center of an escutcheon.
8. Shipbuilding . a shore used inside to support the deck beams of a hull under construction. –verb (used with object)
9. to enclose with pales; fence.
10. to encircle or encompass. —Idiom 11. beyond the pale, beyond the limits of propriety, courtesy, protection, safety, etc.: Their public conduct is certainly beyond the pale.

Instead it would seem you would rather prowl around looking for disagreement, that's my observation BTW.
 

TexUs

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I have a feeling you can't see the forest for the trees.
If its is and was superior then why is it not the worlds predominate language?
The majority of the world speaks Chinese, actually, so if you want to argue from a popularity standpoint your argument falls flat.

But why did Greek language become more rare? Because of history. The empire fell. There's been no "empire of the world" that would've driven a single language since Rome. 13 Million people still speak Greek, it didn't vanish and is still spoken many places, it's just that the rise of many many smaller nations led to a diversity of languages (IE, Japan, Europe, Africa, Asia).

Eventually though, with the advent of technology, planes, and long distance travel, suddenly the world got smaller again- and the need for a "global", so to speak, language increased. It would only make sense that language would be the one of the pioneers of that technology, aka... United States English.

Guess what happens when the world economy collapses, planes can't fly anymore (need money to do that), the world gets smaller, people don't have long-distance communications anymore... Guess what happens to the "global" language again? Goodbye, English. People will grow up speaking their native tongues again because the need to speak English doesn't matter anymore. This is exactly what's happened to all other civilizations throughout history.

It's simply a matter of history.

I don't buy into the super-spiritualistic "English was such a great language, so God used it" you posted. It's a terrible language that's only gained traction because of our world power status. There's nothing about it better than Greek.

Paul and others penned the NT letters in the language of their day, as did Moses and the OT prophets. There's nothing special about the language. God doesn't favor any language over another.
God's word is God's word no matter what language it's in.
 

aspen

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Aspen!
You could be right about pale/green horses refering to the decay of corpses, but I want to make it crystal clear that I did certainly at no point equate a pale/green hrose with environmentalism, I talked about the destructive forces of nature and the simple fact that anything left alone for long enough is re-claimed by nature.

Yeah, I saw that Templar - I thought someone was talking about environmentalism. Thanks for the clarification.

O fcourse you don'tno-one does anymore. The Vulgate is probably the most defunct and redundant translation of the Bible in existance because the scholarship is there to go to the original translations.

The reason I mentioned it is because some of the KJV comes from the Vulgate translation as well as the Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic.

Question for Apsen adn Selene; Does the Jerusalem Bible come from a direct translation of the Vulgate or does it come from the originals?



The New Jerusalem is really a poor translation too - my least favorite of all times, actually. It is the Douay-Rheims that is the translation of the Vulgate.



LOL :lol: Today anyone that wants a career in science, research advancement, industry, politics, ect and doesn't know English is a moron.

Hey! I've got a great idea! Let's argue about what language we feel is best! I am sure Jesus spoke English because He knew America would one day speak it and we all know from the Bible that America is Best!
 

bud02

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Hey! I've got a great idea! Let's argue about what language we feel is best! I am sure Jesus spoke English because He knew America would one day speak it and we all know from the Bible that America is Best!

It is funny isn't it I could care less about it and made the comment simply as a conversation piece.
The substance of the same post "the answer to pale" was completely ignored.
I keep such trivial information in a different compartment, separate from the Truth found in scripture FYI.
You never know when the Lord is going to hand you the keys to unlocking verses. Until then they sit on the shelf just like the language topic.
But just the same I can't help but laugh with you :p
 

aspen

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It is funny isn't it I could care less about it and made the comment simply as a conversation piece.
The substance of the same post "the answer to pale" was completely ignored.
I keep such trivial information in a different compartment, separate from the Truth found in scripture FYI.
You never know when the Lord is going to hand you the keys to unlocking verses. Until then they sit on the shelf just like the language topic.
But just the same I can't help but laugh with you :p


Sorry Bud02 - I already addressed the issue of pale / green - it is the color of a corpse. It really is that simple. As far as your long and complicated essay - not sure why you have to complicate simple descriptions.