CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Jesus is firstborn among many brethren, firstborn from among the dead, "You are My Son, today I have begotten You." How could people be born again yet not have their sins removed? To be born again means you are In Christ not In Adam and you have been rescued from the bondage to sin. 1) How could they be in Christ without having sins removed? 2) How could they be in Christ, rescued from bondage to Sin's Law Romans 8:2, and yet be under the Tutor Galatians 3, be under Law, whereby sin "masters" them Romans 6:14 and Romans 7:7-25? How did they get in Christ without the faith which had not yet arrived?
John says "whoever believes in Him" could receive the right to become a child of God--how could they believe before He arrived?
Elsewhere, it says "those in darkness saw a great light" and "we had each gone our own way"--are these pictures of people who are born of God? They're in darkness? Those born of God are light aren't they?
Sins aren't removed yet are they? They are forgiven. Right? They are only "removed", if you will, at the resurrection. Anyway, Paul says that their sins were already forgiven. Refer to Romans 3:25.
I think the difference between our views can be summed up in my belief that Christ's death on the cross transcends time, applicable to future believers as well as believers in the past. His blood covers every believer throughout time.
It's hard to see in the English, but Paul makes this point in his epistle to the Ephesians. In the Greek it is a bit easier to see, not much though. (smile)
The following is my translation of Ephesians 1:3-10 The part in bold makes the point that God has committed himself to oversee the gathering of all believers who ever lived under Jesus Christ.
Blessed be the God and father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who blessed us by Christ with every spiritual1 blessing associated with heavenly things.2 Just as he chose us with him, before the foundation of the world and by love, to stand before him holy and blameless, he predestined us to be his adopted sons3 through Jesus Christ according to his benevolent purpose to the praise of the virtue4 of his grace. Specifically, he graced us with the beloved, by whom we have redemption though his blood, and the forgiveness of our sins in proportion to the abundance of his grace. He lavished on us all wisdom and insight, making known to us his hidden purpose, consistent with his benevolence, which he set before himself5 to oversee the gathering of the full compliment6 of all believers throughout history, bringing all the adopted sons together in Christ, whether they live beyond the horizon, or on the land.7
1 Associated with both the spirit of man and the Holy Spirit. Spiritual blessings are such graces and favors that affect the inner man, i.e. to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit. See Ephesians 3:16
2 See John 3:12: theological ideas and divine activities
3 Adoption as practiced in ancient Rome to satisfy the need for a male heir. A Roman legal declaration whereby wealth and property are pledged to a young man as a heritage.
4Lit. “glory” external splendor figurative of virtue, and honor
5 The aorist is middle, suggesting that God had no help and retained no council. (see verse 1:11) lit. “him”
6 A quota, as with the recruitment of a crew to man a ship.
7Idiomatic reference to the Gentiles “upon the heavens” and the Jews “on the land.”