Hearing the Lord Jesus Christ

[marks]

The point is that you don't know what He is thinking until you start talking to Him and listening to what He has to say!!

We begin with the Bible.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, that's my point, that maturity brings about greater faith, which makes us better able to hear God speak. So you're saying that God is speaking, and we're only gradually hearing. And I'm saying that God is speaking less until we're able to hear. Not much different really.

Actually, there is a lot of difference I think.

God is speaking to me, knowing I'm not listening? What sort of relationship is that? I don't think God is telling me things as I ignore Him. Like this is some impersonal lecture, and I can tune in or not. He knows me, when my head is at, how to reach me.

"Unresting, unhasting, and silent as light, not wanting nor wasting He ruleth with might"

That's more how I think of God. He doesn't need to do needless things. He doesn't rush, He doesn't waste, He's ALWAYS working good in my life.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Understanding this, or maybe it is better to write; The failure to understand that He is always standing there talking to us results in our failure to hear from Him!!

This seems like an impersonal God that you describe, Who endlessly speaks to the air, or to whomever happens to be listening.

God is big enough to know us each personally, intimately, constantly with us. This way you describe God just sounds so alien to me, as if He were not cognizant of me. That makes no sense to me. We interact. Even if it's mostly one-sided sometimes, it's still interaction.

If I'm of a mind to ignore God, I don't think of God as just going on as if I were listening. I'm thinking more along the lines that He'll be waving His hand in front of my face, as it were, to get my attention first. It's a relationship.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Brother, that's a contradiction if I ever did hear one! We *need to be convicted?* What, you want me to make God convict me? I can't make God do anything.

And if I don't feel convicted, I should try to make myself feel convicted? ;) I'm either convicted or I'm not. The only way I can prevent being convicted when I should be convicted is if I put some kind of obstacle between God and myself. And if I haven't done that, we're back into self-condemnation! ;)

I'm curious . . . is there somewhere in the Bible that teaches us about the born again being convicted of sin? Because I can't seem to think of anyplace. And it sounds contrary to sound doctrine.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The very fact that it seems that way should convict (not condemn) us.

Convict meaning what?

Where in the Bible can I read about the child of God being convicted of sin?

He is always standing at the door knocking with His voice.

Um . . . if you are born again . . . He lives in you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Remember the first words from that snake in the garden were 'did God really say' which is just a statement meant to cause doubt that God would speak to us.

No it's not.

This was not whether God would speak at all. It was about what God had said.

Red flag!

Much love!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

God is omni-present. Our theology (our understanding of God) should even tell us that! Jesus said He would never leave us and that His sheep hear His voice - so do we? Do we hear from Him who never leaves us??

I don't hear from Him like I should, but I hear from Him everyday!! I would like to have a discussion about hearing from Him. Since His sheep hear His voice and it is written that we all know in part, others should have things to add that can help us all.

For me, I pick Him up in words. It is explained that His words are spirit and life, so I expect and do hear by faith words from Him through His Holy Spirit speaking to my spirit. I do hear words!! Because those words are from His Spirit and not sound waves, they are sometimes easier to pick up that at other times. Because it requires faith, there are some things I can hear by faith and something I have trouble picking up because I want to doubt them. Because I get busy and thus don't usually pay attention to Him like I should, I often get a feeling like He is trying to tell me something, so I have to stop and ask Him, "Lord did you say ...?" and in that way get the information again. Because the Holy Spirit is not the only spirit around I often test the spirits (1 Jn 4:1-3) and I often specifically seek Him by asking by name, like "Jesus Christ, do you want to tell me something?"

I find that the more I seek Him, the easier it is to hear from Him and discern whether it is Him or not. I also find that He sometimes like to stretch my faith, so that when I seek Him more He can and often does make it more challenging for me to believe Him.

I have lots of other things to note, from the 20 years of listening to Him, but this is a start. What have others come up with on this subject?

As we grow in the faith, prayer and the Word, we do learn to discern His voice much better. we will never be perfect at it, but we can grow.

God speaks to us in many many ways. We just need to learn to hear His voice as you pointed out.

 

[marks]

But even now I'm in a predicament, financially, and am not sure which direction to go in. I'm looking for a word from God that is more specific to my situation. I'm told by James that God always gives wisdom to those who ask. Right now, I'm asking quite desperately!

Trusting His Word is true, relax, knowing He's got this.

Now, I am, generally speaking, in financial dire straights, so I'm not just speaking platitudes. If God doesn't help me I'm dropping like a rock! But that's been true for so long that I finally got tired of being afraid.

God says He gives wisdom to those who ask in faith. The double minded man shouldn't expect to receive anything from the Lord. If you are letting the flesh mind and the mind of Christ both have space in your head, the one believing, the other doubting, that will be in your way.

His prescription is to ask for wisdom knowing - knowing - He will give it to you. So ask, and assume that when the time comes to give a decision, you will give the wise decision.

When I feel like I don't know what that is, I'll just put the matter to the side, trusting that God will guide. And the time comes when I go back and grab the stack of papers with confidence, knowing just what to do. And even if you don't fully understand how this is the best answer, if it's your conviction that this is from God, trust Him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

For example in Revelation we read correction to seven churches, but there was one bit of correction that was given to every church and it was "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’"

That's not correction, it's invitation.

We need to be careful to listen well.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I think you're wrong on this, and it can lead to self-condemnation. You think we're not hearing from God because we are putting up obstacles to hearing him? That's not true in my experience. God is always leading, but He's not always speaking directly to our issues.

Anyway, I'm not going to convince you otherwise. This you're going to have to discover for yourself, whether what I'm saying is true or not.

This is what I see also. An unhealthy turning the focus to ourselves.

This seems to me one dimensional, overly simplistic, not given attention to the personal aspects to our relationship with God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

If we are not willing to be reproved/ shown how we are wrong and could do better/ be convicted of the things we don't do right (and all unrighteousness is sin) then we will not seek Him and His voice!!

Another way to put it is that we need to repent!! Repentance is not just a one time thing, but a life that realizes that it is not us, but Him, who is right - so that we regularly turn back to Him for advice, counsel, teaching, and instructions!!!

Therefore the person who thinks they are hearing from Him plenty, is in fact tending to lean on their own understanding.

What if you were to stop trying to quanitify how much you are "listening to God", and just relax and enjoy your relationship with Him? Do you trust that He can care for all your needs?

Or is this an opportunity to hammer the saints?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Nevertheless, it is *God's job* to convict us. We shouldn't be on a mission to find something wrong with ourselves.

Not just ourselves! This thread broad brushes everyone.

Whoa, slow down! You're jumping way out ahead and assuming that God is convicting us of sin all the time, and that if anybody doesn't feel convicted at a particular time, then he or she is *ignoring the conviction,* and basically denying that God is speaking?

And, the hand is tipped, the cards revealed.

And now, it just remains that we accept the evidence for what it shows.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Indeed, the more we reject the idea that we can and should hear from Him more that we do the less we are going to hear from Him.

I don't see the connection.

Are you saying that God puts the children running the household?

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

This is what I see also. An unhealthy turning the focus to ourselves.

This seems to me one dimensional, overly simplistic, not given attention to the personal aspects to our relationship with God.

Much love!

I've liked a lot of things you've said about this--sounds more like the way it really is. It may sound "humble" to confess sins that we don't have, pretend to be "missing God," etc. but it's not really true to what God is saying or not saying.

When He speaks to me, He often does it through circumstances. I mean, He *always* leads in the way of righteousness, but in terms of important family and business decisions, it's not always so easy. I think God maybe wants us to make informed decisions sometimes, to see what is important to us, to see if we really mean what we say. And so He lets us make decisions, and later, we recognize His support by a variety of confirming circumstances that support our way forward.

To become introspective, and to constantly guilt ourselves over things we don't even understand, is insensible to me, and not real. God loves us, period. He doesn't need us to give him the PIN number before He acts. When He said you don't have because you don't ask, He's not saying we need to put in the right code before we get an answer. Rather, He's talking about people who aren't relying on Him to start with--when we ask Him things, it means we're on track to doing what He wants in life--not just what we want.

Thanks for your input. I find the subject fascinating.

 

[Karl Peters]

I think this has more to do with our faith.

Be it to us according to our faith, is more how I think.

Much love!

Yes - that is correct!

It's not that we can expect God to talk to us the more mature we get, because God is willing to - and wants to - and is just standing there trying to get us to listen to Him an open us to Him! So the question is not a question of "how mature we are" but if we are going to seek Him and listen to Him - and there are a number of things that get us to seek Him for what He has to say to us. Maturity might be one of them and is indeed something that would be seen in a truly mature Christian, but not all who think themselves mature are!! A desperate need is something that gets people to turn to the Lord for what He has to say.

For example if you are on a place that is going to crash there is a very good chance that you are going to turn to God, hoping He can help and give you important advice. Even people who never looked to the Lord there entire life start seeking Him then. So why does God let things happen to people? There is something written in the Bible from God that goes "I killed them and they sought me." Yet the Pharisees certainly saw themselves as "mature" believers in God, though they never sought His voice so they didn't know Jesus though He was standing in front of them. And He is just standing at the door today too.

So yes, faith that He is indeed stand there with us trying to get us to listen to Him has a lot more to do with hearing from Him than our "maturity"! Our "maturity" can be a thing of pride for us, and frankly The King of kings nor those faithful angels that He sends to minister to those who will inherit salvation are simply not impressed by "our maturity". Jesus explained that if we don't become like these little children who wanted to get on His lap, then we are not getting into heaven! Those little children looking to get on His lap were not worried about being mature, they simply wanted to get close to Jesus!

So if we are talking about hearing from Him we are simply talking about wanting to get close to Him and hear what He has to say. That does take a little faith that He is there for us, but not very much. Why wait for our plane to be crashing to exercise the little bit of faith that we do have? Instead seek Jesus Christ our Lord everyday called "Today", and "now" is a good time. Do that more often and you will start hearing from Him more often, regardless of your conceived "maturity".

Nevertheless, it is *God's job* to convict us.

The work of the Lord is that all should come to know the Lord!!!!!

That is what God is up to!!

Part of that work is to make us aware that we need Him - so that we will turn to Him!!

Part of making us aware that we need Him is to make us aware of the things we are doing wrong! We must repent of our ways if we are to turn to Him and listen to Him. Making us aware of the things we are doing wrong is called "convicting" us of our sins. That is not condemning us of them. It is not like a trail where they prove you are wrong to lock you away! Indeed God (Father, Son, Spirit) are about showing us that we are wrong to save us from being locked away in hell for eternity. The problem is that our own pride tells us that we are not wrong. Therefore the showing us how wrong we actually are is very necessary, and the Holy Spirit can be very good at showing us that we are wrong. Yet we can have lots of pride and never come to believe in Him. He is not impress with our pride - our thinking we know better than Him. That is what gets in our way from hearing from Him more than anything.

 

[Mantis]

Karl,

I have a question for you. Are you speaking to Jesus, the Father or the Holy Spirit?

 

[marks]

There is something written in the Bible from God that goes "I killed them and they sought me."

I don't remember this, could you point me there?

Thanks!

 

[marks]

Part of making us aware that we need Him is to make us aware of the things we are doing wrong! We must repent of our ways if we are to turn to Him and listen to Him. Making us aware of the things we are doing wrong is called "convicting" us of our sins. That is not condemning us of them. It is not like a trail where they prove you are wrong to lock you away! Indeed God (Father, Son, Spirit) are about showing us that we are wrong to save us from being locked away in hell for eternity. The problem is that our own pride tells us that we are not wrong. Therefore the showing us how wrong we actually are is very necessary, and the Holy Spirit can be very good at showing us that we are wrong. Yet we can have lots of pride and never come to believe in Him. He is not impress with our pride - our thinking we know better than Him. That is what gets in our way from hearing from Him more than anything.

To me, God is not our taskmaster trying to shepherd us into the changes and good works that will produce our salvation at the end. To me, God is my Father, I am His son, and He is raising me into maturity.

Much love!

 

[Berserk]

When I hear evangelicals speak of God talking to them, I typically dismiss this as wishful thinking that equates God with the voice in the back of their head. But here are 3 exceptions:
(1) Christians who have learned how to "pray in the Spirit" (Spirit- directed prayer in English or other tongues)
(2) Christians who have learned to still their incessant mental chatter and listen or meditate in a disciplined way
(3) Christians who often experience the paranormal in their exercise of spiritual gifts (Verification is needed to justify claims of God speaking to you.)

For example, I look for God to speak to me on my frequent 6 mile walks. Last week a young woman in her 20s (Heather) , a stranger to me, rushed from her house and asked if I'd mind her walking with me. She wanted to ask about exactly what should be expected in an intimate personal relationship with Christ, a topic that has been a recent obsession of mine, ever since a dear evangelical friend (a lifelong devout Christian) recently told me he had never experienced such a relationship with Christ. Heather told me that God told her to rush out and talk to me and we walked about 3 miles.

 

[Mantis]

When I hear evangelicals speak of God talking to them, I typically dismiss this as wishful thinking that equates God with the voice in the back of their head. But here are 3 exceptions:
(1) Christians who have learned how to "pray in the Spirit" (Spirit- directed prayer in English or other tongues)
(2) Christians who have learned to still their incessant mental chatter and listen or meditate in a disciplined way
(3) Christians who often experience the paranormal in their exercise of spiritual gifts (Verification is needed to justify claims of God speaking to you.)

For example, I look for God to speak to me on my frequent 6 mile walks. Last week a young woman in her 20s (Heather) , a stranger to me, rushed from her house and asked if I'd mind her walking with me. She wanted to ask about exactly what should be expected in an intimate personal relationship with Christ, a topic that has been a recent obsession of mine, ever since a dear evangelical friend (a lifelong devout Christian) recently told me he had never experienced such a relationship with Christ. Heather told me that God told her to rush out and talk to me and we walked about 3 miles.

I have found that there is nothing I can do to hear the voice of God. If he wants to talk to me he will but I have no control over it.