Sola Scriptura
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David in NJ
Well-Known Member
WORTH REPEATING
You said: While it is true that God still deals with us individually and collectively in unique personal ways- scripture makes it clear that God never changes and is the same always. That's uniformity in purpose so anything we are taught "beyond" written scripture cannot change or alter that which we do have that's written.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
I did not see the 'well beyond' scripture part of your post. Please elaborate on this as it currently can be false or true depending....upon scripture.
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Amen. Good job.
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Only Scripture proceeds from the mouth of God by His Spirit to His prophets and apostles. All others that speak for God, that Scripture does not teach, are false prophets, apostles, teachers that do lie, ministering their own will as that of God.
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Sola Scripturists are noble Bereans. Nona-sola-scripturists are ingobly foolish.
Thanks for the warning, I'll keep that in mind.
The OP says that Martin Luther invented Sola Scriptura. So far no-one has denied that.
Therefore it is a man made tradition.
The OP says "Only that which is written as Scripture or is plainly proven by Scripture, is to be taught for truth of God and doctrine of Christ."
The OP also says that that traditions must be proven by scripture.
Therefore according to the OP Sola Scriptura must be proven from scripture.
Science is truth, theories pass the test of time. We have whole computer systems designed with theories as templates. Since these are truths, and Jesus is the truth, then these things have been revealed from Jesus. That is my assessment. They are similar to scripture. There are libraries full of truth, and some false things also.
The Bereans weren't Sola Scriptura. It was the less noble Jews in Thessalonica that were Sola Scriptura
Luther did indeed strive to bring people back to regarding the Word of God as the rule of faith (centuries before, Tertullian notably used the term 'Novum Instrumentum'). It is however preposterous to imply that regarding the Scriptures as the believer's rule of faith was supposedly invented by Luther.
Inaccurate. The Bereans 'searched the Scriptures daily, whether these things were so'.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Mungo, the Bereans searched the SCRIPTURE to SEE if those things which were spoken to them were true........
If God is revealing something then he can't have revealed it before or he would not be revealing it. He would just be repeating it.
That's reaching- even for you. If I claim 2+2=4 do I need to prove that from scripture too? Is that a "tradition" or a stand-alone independent fact?
You are not even arguing for reason now- just simply spinning. I didn't realize your ego was so fragile.
Its one thing to argue in circles but you even deny the answers I and others gave are even posted by refusing to even acknowledge or attempt to challenge them. You just spout the same nonsense time after time.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
So, prove it's man-made and not from the Bible.
Show Scripture that acknowledges there are true things of God, that are neither written in Scripture nor are taught as such by Scripture.
But then, you would be going to Scripture to prove it, which of course is Sola Scriptura.
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Let's fix this. God reveals His Word to His Children. It has not been revealed to His Children UNTIL He Reveals it to Them - YES
Once He has revealed it it becomes Scripture = His Word
Since He has revealed it in Scripture, what are you going to do with it, is the Question..........
David in NJ
Well-Known Member
AGREE. But SMART People would say you are using circular reasoning. - lol
We are told that the Bereans were more noble-minded (open-minded, better disposed, fair)—but more noble-minded than whom? The Thessalonians! It is convenient for Fundamentalists to pull this passage out of context and force it to stand alone. That way their case seems convincing, but the context tells the real story. Before we look at the Bereans, let’s take a look at those they are compared to, the Thessalonians. What did the Thessalonians do that made them less noble-minded?
We find out in Acts 17:1–9: "Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews. And Paul went in, as was his custom, and for three weeks he argued with them from the Scriptures, explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, ‘This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.’ And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women. But the Jews were jealous, and, taking some wicked fellows of the rabble, they gathered a crowd, set the city in an uproar, and attacked the house of Jason, seeking to bring them out to the people. And when they could not find them, they dragged Jason and some of the brethren before the city authorities, crying, ‘These men who have turned the world upside down have come here also, and Jason has received them, and they are all acting against the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, Jesus.’ And the people and the city authorities were disturbed when they heard this. And when they had taken security from Jason and the rest, they let them go."
The Thessalonians rejected Paul and his message, and, after denouncing him, they became jealous that others believed. They treated Paul with contempt and violence, throwing him ignominiously out of town. Why? "For three weeks he [Paul] reasoned with them from the Scriptures" in the synagogue, as was his custom. They did not revile Paul the first week or the second; rather, they listened and discussed. But ultimately they rejected what he had to say. They compared Paul’s message to the Old Testament and decided that Paul was wrong. We must remember that many were proclaiming a wide variety of new teachings, all supposedly based on the Scriptures and revelations from God. Heresies, cults, and sects were as numerous in the Roman Empire as they are today. The Jews in Thessalonica had a right to be skeptical.
Now let’s look at Luke’s comment about the noble-minded Bereans: "The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea, and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men" (Acts 17:10–12).
When Protestants use this passage as a proof text for the doctrine of sola scriptura, they should realize that those in question were not Christians; they were Hellenistic Jews. There was no doctrine of sola scriptura within Jewish communities, but the Scriptures were held as sacred. Although the Jews are frequently referred to as "the people of the book," in reality they had a strong oral tradition that accompanied their Scriptures, along with an authoritative teaching authority, as represented by the "seat of Moses" in the synagogues (Matt. 23:2). The Jews had no reason to accept Paul’s teaching as "divinely inspired," since they had just met him. When new teachings sprang up that claimed to be a development of Judaism, the rabbis researched to see if they could be verified from the Torah.
If one of the two groups could be tagged as believers in sola scriptura, who would it be, the Thessalonians or the Bereans? The Thessalonians, obviously. They, like the Bereans, examined the Scriptures with Paul in the synagogue, yet they rejected his teaching. They rejected the new teaching, deciding after three weeks of deliberation that Paul’s word contradicted the Torah. Their decision was not completely unjustified from their scriptural perspective. How could the Messiah of God be cursed by hanging on a tree like a common criminal, publicly displayed as one who bore the judgment of God? What kind of king and Messiah would that be? This seemed irreconcilable to them (see Simon J. Kistemaker, Acts [Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Books, 1990], 614).
When some of the Greeks and prominent citizens did accept Jesus as Messiah, the Jews became jealous—and rightfully so, from their perspective, since the new believers separated themselves from the synagogue and began meeting elsewhere, at Jason’s house. The Jews naturally considered themselves the authoritative interpreters of the Torah. Who were the Gentiles to interpret Scripture and decide important theological issues or accept additional revelation? They were the "dogs," not the chosen custodians of the oracles of God (see William Barclay, The Acts of the Apostles [Philadelphia, Pennsylvania: Westminster Press, 1976], 128).
We can see, then, that if anyone could be classified as adherents to sola scriptura it was the Thessalonian Jews. They reasoned from the Scriptures alone and concluded that Paul’s new teaching was "unbiblical."
The Bereans, on the other hand, were not adherents of sola scriptura, for they were willing to accept Paul’s new oral teaching as the word of God (as Paul claimed his oral teaching was; see 1 Thess. 2:13). The Bereans, before accepting the oral word of God from Paul, a tradition as even Paul himself refers to it (see 2 Thess. 2:15), examined the Scriptures to see if these things were so. They were noble-minded precisely because they "received the word with all eagerness." Were the Bereans commended primarily for searching the Scriptures? No. Their open-minded willingness to listen was the primary reason they are referred to as noble-minded—not that they searched the Scriptures. A perusal of grammars and commentaries makes it clear that they were "noble-minded" not for studying Scripture, but for treating Paul more civilly than did the Thessalonians—with an open mind and generous courtesy (see I. Howard Marshall, "The Acts of the Apostles" in the Tyndale New Testament Commentaries [Grand Rapids, Michigan: Eerdmans, 1981], 5:280).
The Bereans searched the Torah no less than the Thessalonians, yet they were eager to accept words of God from the mouth of Paul, in addition to what they already held to be Scripture, that is, the Law and the Prophets. Even if one claims that Paul preached the gospel and not a "tradition," it is clear that the Bereans were accepting new revelation that was not contained in their Scriptures. These Berean Jews accepted oral teaching, the tradition of the apostles, as equal to Scripture, in addition to, and as an "extension" of, the Torah. This is further illustrated by the Christian community’s reception of Paul’s epistles as divinely inspired Scripture (see 2 Peter 3:16; here Peter seems to acknowledges Paul’s writings as equal to the "other Scriptures," which can be presumed to refer to the Old Testament).
Steve Ray (WHY THE BEREANS REJECTED SOLA SCRIPTURA)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrong and wrong.
Sadly, your posts do not edify but create strife.
Sola Scriptura, like all principles of how to live life, do not have to be proven because it is not evidence based. The principle of Sola Scriptura is a pure rejection of that heretical denomination known as the RCC. In short, Sola Scriptura is the principle that followers of Christ do not need "the church" that claims dominion over men under various pretexts.
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