If Eternal Security Is Conditional...

[Fire-7]

Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn't this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are certain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including

* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness

I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

 

[Thankful 1]

Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn;t this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are vertain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including

* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness

I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

Becoming one with God

​

(Acts 2:38-39) “You must repent, Peter answered and every one of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise that was made is for you and your children, and for all those who are far away, for all those whom the Lord our God is calling to himself.”

Receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit.​

The gifts of the Holy Spirit are many, but just to name a few.



(1 Corinthians 12:27-30) “Now you together are Christ’s body; but each of you is a different part of it. In the Church, God has given the first place to apostles, the second to prophets, the third to teachers; after them, miracles, and after them the gift of healing; helpers, good leaders, those with many languages. Are all of them apostles, or all of them prophets, or all of them teachers? Do all speak strange languages, and all interpret them?”



The Holy Spirit/Jesus will begin to teach and give one the grace to live the whole Word of God.



(1 John 2:27) “But you have not lost the anointing that he gave you, and you do not need anyone to teach you, the anointing he gave teaches you everything; you are anointed with truth, not a lie, and as it has taught you, so you must stay in him.”



Living the Word of God includes loving, even one’s enemies.



(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”



(Matthew 5:39) “You have learnt how it was said: ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance.”





One can’t say he or she loves if they have money stored and they keep it stored even when they know there is some one in need of that money.



(1 John 3:16-18) “This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? Dear children, let us not love with words or tongue but with actions and in truth.”

Jesus told us the following​

(Matthew 6:19) “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal.”



(Matthew 6:24)"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”



(Luke 12:33) “Sell your possessions and give alms. Get yourselves purses that do not wear out, treasure that will not fail you, in Heaven where no thief can reach it and no moth destroy it. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.”



(Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”

A Spiritual Christian is a temple of God where no sin exists.​

(Romans 6:2-4) “How can we who died to sin yet live in it?

Or are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life.”



(1 John 5:18) “ We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



When one learns to obey and live the Word of God, he or she will become the home of God.



(John 14: 23) “Anyone who loves me will keep my word and my Father will love him, and we shall come to him and make a home in him.”



(1 Corinthians 2:13-14) “Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. An unspiritual person is one who does not accept anything of the Spirit of God he sees it all as nonsense; it is beyond his understanding because it can only be understood by means of the Spirit.”



To maintain life in one he or she needs spiritual food.



(John 6:53-55) “How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They said. Jesus replied: ‘I tell you most solemnly, if you do not eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you will not have life in you. Anyone who does eat my flesh and drink my blood has eternal life, and I shall raise him up on the last day.”

 

[aspen]

well, if you refuse to consider salvation a healthy condition and sinfulness as an unhealthy condition, I can see your dilemma

 

[HammerStone]

Fire-7 it sounds like you're getting lost and confused in the religion part.

The answer to your question is yes - we are all (ourselves) on the way to hell in a handbasket per say. However, God sent his only Son because the requirements were more than we (all) can bear. This is why areas of the Bible - most notably Paul - focus on the depravity of the human condition, but then come the passages that boldly declare Christ fixes all of that mess.

Where religion comes in is you have two extremes. On one side, you have statements like you mentioned - absolute cutoff marks of hell. Statements like "you're going to hell if you commit suicide," or other statements about the supposed rapture and what one is doing when that supposed moment comes. They want to focus only on hell and the threat of sin. On the opposite side, you have total-free-will-as-long-as-it-doesn't-hurt-anyone-else'ers. They advocate a much freer relationship and tend to begin to accept sins as okay. They focus on grace without regard for God in some aspects.

The reality is that sin is sin. We all do it, we all have our types. (Many of which are just fine with society like the ones you listed.)

If you look to the New Testament in particular - guys like Peter, Luke, and Paul - they did not fear hell. It's there, but salvation is available and assured. Think of Paul's absent with the body is present with Christ. Paul struggled mightily with things, but he still knew his faith.

A hallmark of religion is that it heaps extra requirements upon you in excess.

All I will say is that you know when you are walking with God. If you're really worried about salvation, then there might be a reason that those alarm bells are going off for you. I do not pretend to know you or even have a hint at your situation, but your relationship with Jesus will let you know the answer to your concern. If I can do anything let me know; I'll be happy to elaborate or perhaps get you pointed in a direction in the Bible.

 

[paul1234]

 

[timf]

Salvation is eternal and thus secure. If salvation was not eternal could it be lost and then recovered? If recovered, what would be required to recover it? Would it then be a salvation by works?

What makes the subject confusing is our perception of if we are saved or not. The Bible tells us that some will be mistaken about their salvation. The Bible also tells us that we can be certain.

Some people draw their certainty from their denominational doctrine and rest in their baptism, having come forward, their repentance, or other criteria. I would rather encourage people to draw their assurance directly from their Savior. If they are not walking closely enough to Jesus to be able to draw such assurance, I would suggest a closer walk rather than offer my assurance of their salvation.

The book of Galatians addresses the subject of Christian carnality and the struggle of the flesh with the Spirit. Sin is not the measure of unbelief, it is the measure of walking in the flesh. A Christian who walks in sin does not have to try to keep getting saved the "right way" or get saved over and over, but needs to learn how to walk in the Spirit.

 

[Butch5]

Aren't we all on our way to hell? By saying this, I'm not being sarcastic. I am genuinely torn on this issue of eternal security. I just don't understand why G-d would be so ambiguous on such an IMPORTANT issue as the salvation of your soul. Isn't this supposed to be the whole point of the bbible? Not for head knowledge, but for the saving of one's soul. Yet, there is so much controversy and downright confusion on the issue of salvation and eternal security.

But here is why I made that first statment. There are so many sins pointed out in the bible, besides sins of the flesh. Jerry Bridges pointed out in his book, "Respectable Sins" that there are certain sins that we overlook because they are socially acceptable; sins including

* Ungodliness
* Anxiety and Frustration
* Discontentment
* Unthankfulness
* Pride
* Selfishness
* Lack of Self-Control
* Impatience and Irritability
* Anger
* The Weeds of Anger
* Judgmentalism
* Envy, Jealousy, and Related Sins
* Sins of the Tongue
* Worldliness

I have heard great preachers say, for instance, that if Jesus came back to rapture the church, and you the Christian were in the bed fornicating, you would miss the rapture. Not only that, but if you died in the midst of commiting fornication, you would go to hell. The bible says that G-d hates a proud look, but pride is encouraged in society. We're told that in order to be successful, we have to be proud. So what happens if we die in pride??? Where does one draw the line? When is one crossing the line? I just really don't get it. This is confusing to me, to be honest.

Once Saved Always Saved or OSAS as it is commonly referred to is "Not" a biblical doctrine. There is no confusion if you search the Scriptures. There is a boatload of Scripture passages that warn against falling away from the faith, there is "NOT" one single passage of Scripture that says a believer cannot be lost. In order to support the doctrine of OSAS Scripture must be taken out of context.

 

[Fire-7]

In defense of the OSAS side, the bible does say that nothing can pluck the believer out of Jesus' hand. So what does this passage mean? It's the passage that I never hear conditional security people reference.

And it also states that Jesus will leave the flock of sheep to find one lost sheep. These are just two passages that at least alude to OSAS.

I'm not on either side, I'm just trying to bring a balance to it.

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

I personally believe once saved always saved........

As in, Once you're saved you're saved as long as YOU want to be. I don't believe that there's a sin that a believer would/could commit that the Lord wouldn't forgive.

Alot of the problem with this goes into the electoral doctrine. I'm almost certain there was little debate until Calvin came along and vomited his ideas all over the place. That seems to me where most of the confusion and arguments come from in regards to salvation. Hmmmm, maybe,, no,, infact, Rapture too.

The general position of a human attitude is one of jealosy, anger, strife, discontentment (which goes to covetousness, and pretty much bears the weight of lust too).

I don't think any of these are sins. They're just emotions or feelings, and are temporary and sometimes can't be helped. However, It's dwelling in them and acting with them that causes sin. If you feel a certain way and agree with the way you're feeling, you're likely to act on them, and the actions will cause you to do things un seemly, and the actions tend to get worse. Kind of like Conn on King of the Hill.

Sometimes people become believers and later on decide they don't want it anymore. There's other things they'd rather do, and they abandon the faith.

I don't remember which verse/book, but, I think it was Jesus who said we should take inventory to see whether we have what it takes to run the race. Every man should take inventory.

Those who continue, will fall, but, the Bible also says, each time a child of God falls he get's back up.

Now, I don't believe in Rapture, and that's a discussion for another time, so I'm not here to kick that dead horse. However, Let's use death in place.

I have no idea how God would handle it if you died while having sex with another mans wife, and were otherwise a Christian. Seems to me the Lord would forgive, since we're sealed and promised eternal life. But, we also don't know if such a man was truely a Christian in the beginning.

It's the state of your heart that counts. I repentant heart will always strive and wish and ache to do better, and to please the Lord. A repentant heart seeks the Lords will above all things. Even if we sin, It's not as if we sin, because it's not a lifestyle choice. Paul said, It's not I that sin, but sin living in me.

Romans 7
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent to the law that it is good. 17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I think too many preachers like to scare the flock because they're weak minded and have no other direction from God and very little understanding of the word, nor any desire to learn more. They are still on the milk, but have let it sour.

The point of all this, is still kindergarten, That's why you here more preachers constantly repeating, "Jesus died for your sins" than actually saying anything that has merit beyond understanding that Jesus died for your sins, which is the beginning of understanding the nature of the Lord. Not that it's not important by any means, but we can't grow hearing only that, and then hearing, there's a chance you could lose it, so work hard folks!

See, works, are not what causes your salvation. If works can't give you salvation, they can't take it away. But, works are proof of your salvation and your belief. In other words, if you believe you'll obey. On top of that, the Lord can change people overnight, and some he takes his time. It's a learning process. That's why Paul said, we need to start with the renewal of our minds.

You can't lose your slavation, but you can chose to throw it away.

 

[Thankful 1]

I personally believe once saved always saved........

As in, Once you're saved you're saved as long as YOU want to be. I don't believe that there's a sin that a believer would/could commit that the Lord wouldn't forgive.

Alot of the problem with this goes into the electoral doctrine. I'm almost certain there was little debate until Calvin came along and vomited his ideas all over the place. That seems to me where most of the confusion and arguments come from in regards to salvation. Hmmmm, maybe,, no,, infact, Rapture too.

The general position of a human attitude is one of jealosy, anger, strife, discontentment (which goes to covetousness, and pretty much bears the weight of lust too).

I don't think any of these are sins. They're just emotions or feelings, and are temporary and sometimes can't be helped. However, It's dwelling in them and acting with them that causes sin. If you feel a certain way and agree with the way you're feeling, you're likely to act on them, and the actions will cause you to do things un seemly, and the actions tend to get worse. Kind of like Conn on King of the Hill.

Sometimes people become believers and later on decide they don't want it anymore. There's other things they'd rather do, and they abandon the faith.

I don't remember which verse/book, but, I think it was Jesus who said we should take inventory to see whether we have what it takes to run the race. Every man should take inventory.

Those who continue, will fall, but, the Bible also says, each time a child of God falls he get's back up.

Now, I don't believe in Rapture, and that's a discussion for another time, so I'm not here to kick that dead horse. However, Let's use death in place.

I have no idea how God would handle it if you died while having sex with another mans wife, and were otherwise a Christian. Seems to me the Lord would forgive, since we're sealed and promised eternal life. But, we also don't know if such a man was truely a Christian in the beginning.

It's the state of your heart that counts. I repentant heart will always strive and wish and ache to do better, and to please the Lord. A repentant heart seeks the Lords will above all things. Even if we sin, It's not as if we sin, because it's not a lifestyle choice. Paul said, It's not I that sin, but sin living in me.




I think too many preachers like to scare the flock because they're weak minded and have no other direction from God and very little understanding of the word, nor any desire to learn more. They are still on the milk, but have let it sour.

The point of all this, is still kindergarten, That's why you here more preachers constantly repeating, "Jesus died for your sins" than actually saying anything that has merit beyond understanding that Jesus died for your sins, which is the beginning of understanding the nature of the Lord. Not that it's not important by any means, but we can't grow hearing only that, and then hearing, there's a chance you could lose it, so work hard folks!

See, works, are not what causes your salvation. If works can't give you salvation, they can't take it away. But, works are proof of your salvation and your belief. In other words, if you believe you'll obey. On top of that, the Lord can change people overnight, and some he takes his time. It's a learning process. That's why Paul said, we need to start with the renewal of our minds.

You can't lose your slavation, but you can chose to throw it away.

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we shoulddeliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice forthem. There is left only the dreadfulprospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses isruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may besure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood ofthe covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults theSpirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said:Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the livingGod.”



(Hebrews 6: 4-6) “As for those people whowere once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and receiveda share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and thepowers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it isimpossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Sonof God and openly mocked Him.”

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we shoulddeliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice forthem. There is left only the dreadfulprospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses isruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may besure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood ofthe covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults theSpirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said:Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the livingGod.”



(Hebrews 6: 4-6) “As for those people whowere once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and receiveda share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and thepowers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it isimpossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Sonof God and openly mocked Him.”

On the surface those scriptures seem to be saying you can lose your salvation, or be damned for sinning after you're saved. If you go back and reread them, you'll notice the entire context was about the New covenant vs the Old.


It's saying, that you can't go on sinning and think that the sacrifice of animals will clean your soul. It's also saying that if you don't believe, even then all the sacrifices wont clean your soul.

I believe these scriptures were wrote specifically about people reverting back to the law of moses, rather than remaining in the faith of Jesus.

This isn't to say that you can do what you want anytime. That's obviously not okay, but, tell me this. Has anyone not sinned willfully?

 

[Thankful 1]

On the surface those scriptures seem to be saying you can lose your salvation, or be damned for sinning after you're saved. If you go back and reread them, you'll notice the entire context was about the New covenant vs the Old.


It's saying, that you can't go on sinning and think that the sacrifice of animals will clean your soul. It's also saying that if you don't believe, even then all the sacrifices wont clean your soul.

I believe these scriptures were wrote specifically about people reverting back to the law of moses, rather than remaining in the faith of Jesus.

This isn't to say that you can do what you want anytime. That's obviously not okay, but, tell me this. Has anyone not sinned willfully?

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hopemust purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, becauseto sin is to break the law. Now youknow that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin;anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him orknown Him. My children do not letanyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy;to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinnerfrom the beginning. It was to undo allthat the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seedremains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”





You notice what Johnfist says in this verse? “Must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.”



Then John goes on tosay: “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Himthere is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins hasnever seen Him or known Him.”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of thedevil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason theSon of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



Here is where John really explains to thosethat believe they can sin and still be saved/friends with God. A sinner is of Satan, and not of God.

 

[Joshua David]

(Hebrews 10:26-31) “If, after we have been given knowledge of the truth, we shoulddeliberately commit any sins, then there is no longer any sacrifice forthem. There is left only the dreadfulprospect of judgment and of the fiery wrath that is to devour your enemies. Anyone who disregards the Law of Moses isruthlessly put to death on the word of two witnesses or three; and you may besure that anyone who tramples on the Son of God, and who treats the blood ofthe covenant which sanctified him as if it were not holy, and who insults theSpirit of grace, will be condemned to a far severer punishment. We are all aware who it was that said:Vengeance is mine; I will vindicate his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the livingGod.”

(Hebrews 6: 4-6) “As for those people whowere once brought into the light, and tasted the gift from heaven, and receiveda share of the Holy Spirit, and appreciated the good message of God and thepowers of the world to come and yet in spite of this have fallen away it isimpossible for that to be renewed a second time. They cannot be repentant if they have willfully crucified the Sonof God and openly mocked Him.”

What does it mean to be sealed?


Eph 1:12-14 [sup]12[/sup]That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. [sup]13[/sup]In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

[sup]14[/sup]Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:29-31 [sup]29[/sup]Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.

[sup]30[/sup]And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

[sup]31[/sup]Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:

What does being sealed mean? Can a seal be given and broken, given and broken, given and broken. If you take the verses in Hebrews to literally refer to the dispensation of Grace, then after you willingly sin just once after being saved, then you are done. You are lost and there in literally nothing that you can do about it. Is that what you really believe? Now if you start saying things like, "Well, no, what it is talking about is having a sinful lifestyle, or what it is talking about is sinning without repenting, or what it is talking about is .... ect." Well then you are really holding up to the literal interpretation, since it doesn't say having a sinful lifestyle, or sin without repenting, it says willfully sin. Now granted the term 'Falling away' does give you a little more leeway, but then you have to define what does fall away mean? Since you included this verse with the verse that talks about willfully sinning, does this mean that falling away means to willfully sin? And if you willfully sin, then are you unable to repent? And if you are unable to repent, then are you without hope?

So in the context of your salvation, what does being sealed mean to you?

Just a little historical research. A seal back in Jesus time when this was written, was a wax seal. Colored wax was heated up until it melted. The melted wax was then poured onto the parchment that was being sealed. Most times the wax had a engraved signet pressed into it, to identify the owner of the seal. Legally, only the owner of the seal could break the seal, and once the seal was broken, it could not be sealed. If a new seal was desired, the old wax had to be scrapped off and an entirely new seal had to be created.

So if we are sealed, legally who owns the seal? If the seal can be broken, what exactly does it take? And can you find any scriptural evidence to suggest that someone can be resealed?




Joshua David

 

[Thankful 1]

What God wants from us is love. He wants us first to love him. We do that by hearing and living his Word.



(Matthew 7:21-23) “Itis not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heavenbut the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me,‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name,work many miracles in your name?’ ThenI shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, youevil men!”



God want us to love each other.

 

[aspen]

eternal security is conditional on a relationship with Christ. My marriage is conditional on my relationship with my wife. Both require participation to exist; neither will fail apart unexpectedly.

 

[Joshua David]

eternal security is conditional on a relationship with Christ. My marriage is conditional on my relationship with my wife. Both require participation to exist; neither will fail apart unexpectedly.

Aspen, what does it mean to be sealed?

Joshua David

 

[aspen]

Aspen, what does it mean to be sealed?

Joshua David

It describes the nature of the relationship - Paul uses the word to promote security - sort of like marriage is sometimes called a bond.

 

[Joshua David]

It describes the nature of the relationship - Paul uses the word to promote security - sort of like marriage is sometimes called a bond.

I agree. I think it perfectly describes the nature of the relationship.. Now I have 4 questions..

1) Can the seal be broken and if so how?

2) What does it mean to have your seal broken?

3) If the seal is broken, can it be resealed?

4) Who owns the seal thereby having the legal authority to break it.

Joshua David

 

[WhiteKnuckle]

(1 John 3: 3 - 9) “Surely everyone who entertains this hopemust purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ. Any one who sins at all breaks the law, becauseto sin is to break the law. Now youknow that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Him there is no sin;anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins has never seen Him orknown Him. My children do not letanyone lead you astray; to live a holy life is to be holy just as He is holy;to lead a sinful life is to belong to the Devil, since the Devil was a sinnerfrom the beginning. It was to undo allthat the Devil has done that the Son of God appeared. No one who has been begotten by God sins: because God’s seedremains inside him, he cannot sin when he has been begotten by God.”





You notice what Johnfist says in this verse? “Must purify himself, must try to be as pure as Christ.”



Then John goes on tosay: “Now you know that He appeared in order to abolish sin, and that in Himthere is no sin; anyone who lives in God does not sin, and anyone who sins hasnever seen Him or known Him.”



(1 John 3:8) “He who does what is sinful is of thedevil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason theSon of God appeared was to destroy the devil's work”



Here is where John really explains to thosethat believe they can sin and still be saved/friends with God. A sinner is of Satan, and not of God.

I agree completely. I can see where I'm misunderstood by my explaination.

It's not that it's okay to sin by anymeans. But, it is a fact that even Christians Sin.

This does fit right into what Paul was saying. That it's no longer "us" but sin living in us (Flesh). I guess a better point to make is, Try not to sin, do what you can to keep pure, start by renewing your mind, etc etc,,,,, but, IF you do sin, you have an advocate with the Father in Heaven through Jesus.

The biggest point is that a believer will not chose sin as a way of life. However, the fact still remains that we all sin, even the "best" christian.

 

[aspen]

I agree. I think it perfectly describes the nature of the relationship.. Now I have 4 questions..

1) Can the seal be broken and if so how?

2) What does it mean to have your seal broken?

3) If the seal is broken, can it be resealed?

4) Who owns the seal thereby having the legal authority to break it.

Joshua David

The only way that the seal can be broken is to be unfaithful. God wrote a certificate of divorce to Israel because of her unfaithfulness. Rejection of the Holy Spirit is an unforgivable sin, which results in our hearts remaining unredeemed.