A False Teaching about the Cross and Jesus being Crucified

[post]

What killed Jesus was the weight of burden of sin.

if the burden of our sin could destroy our Saviour then there is no such thing as salvation -- but He is declared Priest by the power of an indestructible life!

no one takes His life - He lays it down and He takes it up again.

 

[GEN2REV]

" ... enemies of the cross of Christ, ..."
Philippians 3:18
" ... bearing His cross ..."
John 19:17
" ... the cross of Jesus ..."
John 19:25
" ... the preaching of the cross ... is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 1:18
" ... whosoever doth not bear his cross ..."
Luke 14:27
" ... come down from the cross!"
Mark 15:30
" ... let him deny himself, and take up his cross ..."
Matthew 16:24
" ... the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ ..."

There are many more. All KJV. All New Testament.

 

[Enoch111]

Preaching the cross is NOT preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross.

Sounds like another Jehovah's Witness trying desperately to subvert the Gospel.

 

[Enoch111]

No NT writer mentioned the cross sir. You simply have not researched it.

More baloney from the JWs.

 

[Truman]

 

[Brakelite]

if the burden of our sin could destroy our Saviour then there is no such thing as salvation -- but He is declared Priest by the power of an indestructible life!

no one takes His life - He lays it down and He takes it up again.

Jesus voluntarily placed Himself as our High Priest and Sacrificial Lamb. Yes, He laid down His life but He didn't kill Himself. He "gave up the ghost, and died". Others were to a point culpable. Paul and Stephen correctly called the Jews murderers. The Romans themselves "knew not what they were doing", so Jesus wasn't holding them responsible. The leaders of Israel who had all the evidence that Jesus was truly the Messiah, but resisted all their convictions to the truth, were all guilty of the unpardonable sin... Blaspheming the holy Spirit.
But what was in reality the cause of the death of the Son of God? Us. We are. Every time we sin we crucify Him afresh. Every time we disobey God we add to the burden that was placed upon Christ at Calvary. How that works on God's time I don't know. But somehow it is necessary because without the shedding of blood there is no remission. And only someone equal to the law can atone for it's transgression. As giver of the law, the Son was fully qualified to pay the redemption price for mankind. That price was death. Christ fully and completely died, not just as a man, but as the Son of God manifested in the flesh, full of grace, truth, and all the attributes of the Godhead bodily, suffered complete and utter separation from God having no hope at the point of death of a resurrection. How could He? Was it not our death, the final second death that has no resurrection and no hope, that He accepted in our place? Anything short of that and the propitiation is incomplete.
And another thing. It was always a possibility that Christ could have sinned, and this was a risk that both Father and Son were willing to make for our sake. Christ considered eternal life with His Father not worth having if it were at our expense. What love! What condescension! What grace, mercy, and faithfulness the Father and Son have toward sinful man!!
KJV 1 John 4:9-10, 14-15
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
KJV 1 John 3:16
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
KJV 1 John 5:11-13
11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

 

[David in NJ]

Hi Ken, many have idolized the cross, which is really irrelevant to Christians as it has nothing to do with Christianity. Makes one wonder why so much emphasis is put on it when it makes absolutely no sense. If someone shot your son and your friends started wearing guns and painting them on their cars and such would it be pleasing to you? I certainly cannot figure the fascination of it all.

At any rate, it was Jesus' death, the sacrifice of his flesh and blood that redeemed mankind. The instrument of his death has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. In fact it quite likely wasn't a cross anyway. The Bible stated it was a stauros, which is defined as an upright pole. It also used the term xylon which is translated tree, or in other words wood.

TRUE - The cross, itself has no redeeming qualities except that the Scripture cannot lie and the cross(pole, stake, etc) was prophesied as the instrument upon which the Messiah would suffer and die for our sins.

No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up
that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

Order of Scripture
woven throughout His Word
Clear to See if you bend the knee
not to me or to other men
but to God who holds the Eternal Pen

 

[post]

The Romans themselves "knew not what they were doing",

Why would you think He was talking about Rome if Peter told the Jews they were the ones who crucified Him?

 

[Brakelite]

Why would you think He was talking about Rome if Peter told the Jews they were the ones who crucified Him?

In order to fulfill the purposes of God, Rome in that moment became a servant to the Jewish religious hierarchy.
This will be repeated in these last days as the church takes over the political power and begins to persecute so called "heretics", just as papal Rome did in the 6 th century.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Hi Ken, many have idolized the cross, which is really irrelevant to Christians as it has nothing to do with Christianity. Makes one wonder why so much emphasis is put on it when it makes absolutely no sense. If someone shot your son and your friends started wearing guns and painting them on their cars and such would it be pleasing to you? I certainly cannot figure the fascination of it all.

At any rate, it was Jesus' death, the sacrifice of his flesh and blood that redeemed mankind. The instrument of his death has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. In fact it quite likely wasn't a cross anyway. The Bible stated it was a stauros, which is defined as an upright pole. It also used the term xylon which is translated tree, or in other words wood.

The cross didn't kill Jesus though, we know that from scripture, Jesus had power to lay down his life and take it up again. I agree the cross is of no consequence and the symbol of it is probably cruel.

 

[Brakelite]

It was mentioned previously about the serpent on a pole. And the reminder the pole had become an object of worship, in disregard of the actual message which was inherent in the lesson... God's saving grace.
We are in a valley now and the serpent's are biting us. Lockdowns... Political strife... Threats of terrorism and socialism and communism and gay rights and accusations of racism and bigotry and Islamaphobia and all manner of evils, and what is the church's response? Become a political activist, support a party, and change the world by changing the laws. Sorry, but that isn't the gospel, and it's as much an idol as that which Hezekiah destroyed. We are being conditioned to hating the very ones we should be sharing the love of God with, who need the grace of God most. The Ninevites... And we are running away and using politics as our gourd. We're like the apostles, shall we call upon God to rain down fire upon them? And God says, should I not spare America, that great city, wherein are more than 200 million persons who cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Crucified and cross have the same definition in some major Concordances and I use interchangeably both terms in my explanations. The false teaching is Jesus dying on the cross was Him crucified.

The New Testament shows Christ was crucified died and rose from the dead and, by Greek definition, He figuratively denied self for His death on the cross. IE the NT exclusively shows one-way He was crucified denying self which resulted in His death, resurrection and bringing His blood as a sacrificial offering to His father.

Also, the Old Testament shows His crucifixion was self-denial which is a true understanding of God’s will. Abram believed God would raise Isaac from the dead and God the Father believed He would raise Jesus because of Abrahams work of faith. Then God could allow His son Jesus to die and will raise Him. This could not have happened until man (Abraham) denied self and gave his son by a work of faith. Therefore, the OT shows Jesus was crucified same as Abraham’s faith of self-denial. Both Jesus and Abraham denied-self which allowed them to be physically crucified, first Abraham for his son then God for His Son, Abraham son’s actual physical death was stopped by God because there was no need for this to happen.

Basis for this teaching

Preaching the cross or His crucifixion is preaching His death on the cross?

Preaching the cross is NOT preaching His death on the cross and scripture shows His cross, by Greek definition, is Him impaled on a wood stake and this seems to be an accurate understanding of preaching the cross. But further review of this scripture shows God’s understanding of what preaching the cross is. The cross is defined as a stake and figuratively self-denial per Greek definition. 1 Corinthians 1:18. By definition figurative language is new insight into a word. This new insight (Self-Denial) is God’s insight and is beyond the insight of being impaled on the cross. Figuratively, exposure to death, IE self-denial is to deny self and when we deny self He can live in us and we are following in His footsteps same as when He denied self unto death on the cross.

Example of usage of figuratively:

Examples of Figurative Language: Guide to 12 Common Types

Vocabulary.com figuratively/literally

figuratively vs. literally on Vocabulary.com

The Greek definition of Deny in Matthew 16:24 when Jesus said let him deny is to lose one’s self-intere

I noticed you only have one post here on the forum, this one. And it's a little unclear as to your point. Jesus wasn't killed by the cross or crucifixion. The bible already spells out that he laid down his own life and took it up again, And that God the Father was part of that process. Jesus did die on the cross though. That much is recorded in the bible.

 

[Curtis]

Hi Ken, many have idolized the cross, which is really irrelevant to Christians as it has nothing to do with Christianity. Makes one wonder why so much emphasis is put on it when it makes absolutely no sense. If someone shot your son and your friends started wearing guns and painting them on their cars and such would it be pleasing to you? I certainly cannot figure the fascination of it all.

At any rate, it was Jesus' death, the sacrifice of his flesh and blood that redeemed mankind. The instrument of his death has no redeeming qualities whatsoever. In fact it quite likely wasn't a cross anyway. The Bible stated it was a stauros, which is defined as an upright pole. It also used the term xylon which is translated tree, or in other words wood.

Stauros can have either meaning, which exposes your bias by ignoring that inconvenient fact.

The cross is prominent in the Bible.


1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

 

[Robert Gwin]

My point is so what?
Maybe JWs secretly worship Ishtar and that's why they say He was nailed to an Ashereh pole.
What kind of evidence is that speculation?
It's not evidence at all. It's conspiracy theory.

There is no deception in whom we worship Post. We actually bear the name of the God we worship and serve exclusively. You know it, as well as any honest hearted one, you are simply trying to be provocative.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Romans weren't interested in an efficient death. They wanted to prolong the suffering for as long as possible... Hence their surprise at the death of Jesus on that same afternoon, which in a sense supports the OP, that the crucifixion did not kill Jesus... He offered His life a ransom for many... What killed Jesus was the weight of burden of sin. Yours, mine, and everyone else's throughout history.

Jesus did have to die as you stated sir, but the mode of execution did in fact kill him. His death as you stated did in fact released many from their sins, not everyones of course, he died for the many who will receive salvation. Rom 5:15

It can be the way you stated however, but sadly not all accept the sacrifice given in their behalf enabling satan to take as many as the grains of the sand of the sea with him Rev 20:8

 

[Robert Gwin]

More baloney from the JWs.

Irrelevant sir, what is said is either fact or fiction.

 

[Robert Gwin]

TRUE - The cross, itself has no redeeming qualities except that the Scripture cannot lie and the cross(pole, stake, etc) was prophesied as the instrument upon which the Messiah would suffer and die for our sins.

No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up
that everyone who believes in Him may have eternal life.

Order of Scripture
woven throughout His Word
Clear to See if you bend the knee
not to me or to other men
but to God who holds the Eternal Pen

Do you believe the first resurrection has happened David?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The cross didn't kill Jesus though, we know that from scripture, Jesus had power to lay down his life and take it up again. I agree the cross is of no consequence and the symbol of it is probably cruel.

Hi Devin, we all know that Jesus did have to die, one of the reasons he was sent Jn 3:16, but the stauros did in fact kill him, in fact of the three he was the only one in which it killed him exclusively, the other two had to have their legs broken to expedite their deaths before the start of the sabbath.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Hi Devin, we all know that Jesus did have to die, one of the reasons he was sent Jn 3:16, but the stauros did in fact kill him, in fact of the three he was the only one in which it killed him exclusively, the other two had to have their legs broken to expedite their deaths before the start of the sabbath.

If we are to have sound reasoning then we must believe Jesus' words here:

John 10:17-18 KJV
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

If the cross didn't kill the other two then what makes you think it killed Jesus? That idea is flawed. The evidence suggests that Jesus legs would have to be broken for it to kill him had he been mere man like the other two on the cross. Do you believe Jesus' words in the bible above that I posted?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Stauros can have either meaning, which exposes your bias by ignoring that inconvenient fact.

The cross is prominent in the Bible.


1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.

1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Heb 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

You are using a version of the Bible sir, if you check the word was stauros for every verse you used. The translators of your selected version chose to translate stauros as cross.