Secure Eternal Salvation

[BreadOfLife]

What a joke. Same difference

WRONG.

YOU falsely preach that works are a byproduyct of faith.
The Church has ALWAYS taught as Scripture does - that works are an essential element of faith.

Nope you screwed up

there was no law in abraham's day. So when Paul states abraham was not found by works, he means works of any kind

The same author says not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us.

Your works are not better than works of the law.

The law never saved them, The roman churches sacraments will never save you

Good grief - read Romans 4.

He refers to the Law - NOT in Abraham's case, but to show his READERS that faiyth matters MORE than the Law.
- Works of the Law don't save us.
- Works done wihtout the other ingredients of Faith don't save us.

FAITH that works - THAT'S what saves us.

 

[BreadOfLife]

But the Greek word for believe, pisteuo, means to have faith. So how can you say the demons, who believe (James 2:19), don't have faith? You need to stop inventing a definition of pisteuo that does not exist.

Obviously, it's what the demons have faith about and the lack of results that believing produces that delineates the difference between the believing that justifies and the believing that does not. The demons believe that God is one. So what. That is believing that does not justify. Belief in the promise of God is what justifies, and that's the believing that produces works that validate the presence of that believing in a person.

But 'pisteuo' means to 'have faith'. So how can you claim the believing of the demons that God is one is not faith? You're obviously adding to the meaning of the Greek language of the Bible where you should not, and can not, do that.

WOW.

I already showed you SEVERAL times now that the English, "bvelieve" has more than ONE mdefinition - so does the Greek, "pisteuo". It's absolutely amazing to me that you can be shown something several times and STILL not learn from it.

ONE more time . . .

"Pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".
It ALSO means "Berlieve".
Pronunciation: pist-yoo'-o
Definition: 1) to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in 1a) of the thing believed 1a1) to credit, have confidence 1b) in a moral or religious reference 1b1) used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul 1b2) to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith 1bc) mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith 2) to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity 2a) to be intrusted with a thing

The English word "Believe" ALSO has multiuple meanings:
be·lieve
(bĭ-lēv′)
v. be·lieved, be·liev·ing, be·lieves
v.tr.
1. To accept as true or real: Do you believe the news stories?
2. To credit with veracity: I believe you.
3. To expect or suppose; think: I believe they will arrive shortly.

v.intr.
1. To have firm faith, especially religious faith.
2. To have faith, confidence, or trust: I believe in your ability to solve the problem.
3. To have confidence in the truth or value of something: We believe in free speech.
4. To have an opinion; think: They have already left, I believe.

BOTJ words havw similar definitions - and they DON'T all mean "Faith".
Good grief - how dense can you be??

 

[post]

Why are you so dense, lol?
When you believe something you have a belief.
When you believe something you have faith.
Belief and faith are one and the same thing.
What you have faith and belief in is what determines if your belief/faith is able to make you righteous.
Only the belief that the blood of Christ can forgive your sin and make you righteous.
Your works, in turn, show if you possess that faith, just as Abraham's works showed that he possessed the faith that makes one righteous in God's sight.

our works show this to people - because it is the LORD who searches the heart.
what faith do we have tho, if we are ashamed to confess Him before men?

 

[post]

the church cannot teach error or Christ would be teaching error

Lk 10:16 jn 16:13

how then to explain Peter being in error, leading many astray, even Barnabas ((Galatians 2)) . . . ??

the church at that moment was alive in Paul, not in Peter.

whoever hates correction is stupid
(Proverbs 12:1)​

did not also the congregation that calls itself "of Peter" reject the correction of the congregation that withstood it to its face?
they sought to kill them for speaking the truth!

 

[BreadOfLife]

What's frightening is you claim 'faith' and 'belief' are two different things in the Greek language but you can't produce the Greek word for belief to prove that. I know the Greek noun for 'faith' is pistis. But what is the Greek noun for 'belief'?

ONE more time . . .

According to Strrong's Greek Concordance - this ONE word has MULTPLE definitions - and they DON'T all mean "Faith".
It also means "Berlief".

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Conclusion: You've been WRONG all along by insisting that it ONLY means "Faith" - or that Faith and Belief are the SAME thing.
They're NOT.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"Pisteuo" (πιστευο) does NOT only meran "Faith".
It ALSO means "Berlieve".

Pisteuo does not mean 'faith' because 'faith' is a noun. Pisteuo means to 'have faith'. The demons believe that God is one, the only God that exists. James' point is, so what, that is not the faith that saves. That is an empty, useless faith that does not justify. The demons themselves, and the nature of their lostness and disobedience being the evidence of that. The faith that justifies is identified by the righteous work that accompanies it.

"...things (works, love) that accompany salvation." Hebrews 6:9-10​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

According to Strrong's Greek Concordance - this ONE word has MULTPLE definitions - and they DON'T all mean "Faith".
It also means "Berlief".

Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.

Belief is having faith, just as it's obvious that faithfulness is having faith, trust is having faith, confidence is having faith, and fidelity is having faith. You can't have a belief without having faith. You're just deciding 'belief' is the one word that doesn't mean 'having faith' in order to defend the false 'faith is works' works gospel of the Catholic church.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Believing is just ONE ingredient which also requires LOVE

So you're saying faith requires works of the law, too, then, in order to make a person righteous.

You didn't address this.
The work of love is the work of the law (Leviticus 19:18).
You don't seem to realize that when you say a person is made righteous by faith and works (because faith and works are the same thing) that you are saying a person is made righteous by faith and the works of the law, the very argument Paul says is NOT true in Romans 3 & 4. So, next time you say a man is made righteous by faith and works (love, obedience, etc.) I will remind you that the works you cite as making a man righteous are works of the law, the very works gospel condemned in scripture.

 

[Taken]

@Ferris Bueller
@Eternally Grateful
@post

Didja...get enough tongue lashing and correction of Greek Speak for the day? LOL

Faith without works is dead....is a concept to impress works reveal ones faith...for the benefit of others to see. Others can not SEE your faith, but they can SEE your works....and they CAN Observe WHO an individual “accredits” their “works” to....themselves or God.

Faith is a Gift from God. Faith does not live then die!
The Gift of Faith from God to a man is always in that man.
The Gift of Faith from God is Given a man bit by bit, measure by measure.
Measure of Faith, compared to what Measure?
Compared to the Measure of the Word of God the man Hears.
Men Hearing Little of Gods Word, receives Little of Gods gift of faith.
Men Hearing more of Gods Word, receives More of Gods gift of faith.
Men who stop hearing Gods Word, stop receiving Gods gift of faith.
Men who Reject Gods Word, have FALLEN from faith, and receive “no more” of Gods Gift of Faith.

WORKS....of WHO?
Works of the man? What about the WORKS of God.
Many men can hear, receive measures of Gods gift of Faith....and what?
Continue hearing, continue receiving faith, Believe, Not Believe, Reject...
** What about the guy, WHO hears a little, receives a little Faith...
WHO, continues to Believe, but does not continue to Hear...
~ DOES GOD take away the His gift of faith? No
~ HAS that man Fallen from Faith? No
~ DOES GOD DO WORKS IN THAT MAN of CONVERSION? No.
~ CAN that man DO good WORKS? Yes
~ WHERE DOES SUCH A MAN, fit in?
He can be a Jew. He can be a Gentile. He has “little” Faith from God. He keeps his “little faith”. He believes but is not committed. He does not receive Gods Salvation. He can do some good works, (charitable, lend helping hand, etc.), but doesn’t necessarily exalt the Lord God above all other things...(family, money, possessions, etc.)...WHAT becomes of THAT man?

Scripture tells us by WORD and EXAMPLE...
1) Men not IN Christ, (saved while alive in their flesh)...yet who have “little faith”, believe at the time of their physical death, are saved by God, AFTER their physical death......GOD shall “bring” with Him...
2) When God “shall bring” that man “with” Him, is after the millennial reign of Christ Jesus, WHEN God “brings with Him”, bodys of men He raises in Glory.
3) The thief on the cross, next to Jesus. DID no WORKS, but confessed belief, died, and was promised Salvation after his death. God will ‘bring him” with God, raise up his body in glory, After the millennial reign.
4) A MAN, of a “little faith”, Without works, is sufficient for that man to “become” saved.....BY the WORKS of God!
5) etc.

SALVATION is given a man exclusively FOR that man HAVING FAITH.
WORKS that glorify God are a BONUS. Treasures stored up in Heaven, and given men AS REWARDS.

* Every man shall be JUDGED, IF he IS or IS NOT Saved, and the Sentence shall be carried out, FOR the SAVED, and FOR the UNSAVED.

* Every man shall ALSO be JUDGED, ON His WORKS. Every WORK of a man that Glorified God, shall receive a REWARD. Every WORKS of a man, that did not Glorify God, shall be burned.

World governments, businesses, individual men, KEEP books and records...so does God. Gods Books and Records are His Evidence, and shall be Opened for Inspection, of what is and what is not, which pertains to every man.
Books of MEN, WITH God, Books of MENS works, deeds....and each reveal the evidence to be USED for JUDGING individual men.

Matt 17:
[20] And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

1 Thes 4:
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

Isa 45:
[17] But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

Rev 20:
[5] But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Luke 7:
[50] And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee go in peace.

Matt 16:
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matt 6:
[20] But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

FAITH alone, even a tiny bit, of any man at the time of his physical death, is sufficient for a man, Jew or Gentile, to “Become” Saved.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG.

YOU falsely preach that works are a byproduyct of faith.
The Church has ALWAYS taught as Scripture does - that works are an essential element of faith.

I just go by what the word says, I could care less what YOUR CHURCH says, I do not follow men.

Good grief - read Romans 4.

He refers to the Law - NOT in Abraham's case, but to show his READERS that faiyth matters MORE than the Law.
- Works of the Law don't save us.
- Works done wihtout the other ingredients of Faith don't save us.

FAITH that works - THAT'S what saves us.

lol. So we ignore all the other passages.

Paul was speaking to people tryign to add works of the law to the gospel. what is the difference between the jews adding works of the law. and the church adding works of the church?

Zero Zip Nada.

Again, Good luck in trying to earn salvation.

Continue to ignore pauls words. and Jesus words.

Grace and works cancel each other out!

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

We are not saved by any good deed (works of righteousness) we have done.

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

You want to boast of all your sacraments, feel free. Your not saved by them. they will not save you, Your saved by grace alone. Through faith NOT WORKS

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, Not by works, lest anyone should boast

Romans 4:2
For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

the true living bread. whoever eats it will NOT DIE. Unlike your false bread of life. which people eat weekly and still have the ability to die

John 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.”

John 6:58
This is the bread which came down from heaven—not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.”

I can go on and on and on.

 

[theefaith]

how then to explain Peter being in error, leading many astray, even Barnabas ((Galatians 2)) . . . ??

the church at that moment was alive in Paul, not in Peter.

whoever hates correction is stupid
(Proverbs 12:1)​

did not also the congregation that calls itself "of Peter" reject the correction of the congregation that withstood it to its face?
they sought to kill them for speaking the truth!

Matters of discipline are not included only faith and morals

 

[theefaith]

1. Colossians 1:24
   Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
   
   1 Corinthians 9:27
   But I keep under my body, and bring it intosubjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
   
   don’t apply to special people like you

 

[Ferris Bueller]

1. Colossians 1:24
   Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
   
   1 Corinthians 9:27
   But I keep under my body, and bring it intosubjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
   
   don’t apply to special people like you

They apply to all believers. Just not for the purpose of earning justification as a reward of debt owed. But as the sign of enduring and continuing faith.

 

[theefaith]

They apply to all believers. Just not for the purpose of earning justification as a reward of debt owed. But as the sign of enduring and continuing faith.

Is that an outward sign?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Is that an outward sign?

Yes, they are the outward sign that you are ALREADY righteous by faith in Christ. But you are trying to say suffering MAKES you righteous before God.

 

[theefaith]

Yes, they are the outward sign that you are ALREADY righteous by faith in Christ. But you are trying to say suffering MAKES you righteous before God.

1. Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

1. Hebrews 12:4
   Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.

You don't make yourself righteous in God's sight by resisting sin. If that were true we would not need Christ and faith in his blood to be righteous before God. You SHOW yourself to have the righteousness that is from God through faith by resisting sin.

 

[theefaith]

You don't make yourself righteous in God's sight by resisting sin. If that were true we would not need Christ and faith in his blood to be righteous before God. You SHOW yourself to have the righteousness that is from God through faith by resisting sin.

it is grace from the merits of Christ that enables us to do so!

 

[theefaith]

You think all you need is faith!
Once in youre life
Itsy bitsy tenny weenie little bit of faith
Alone!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Pisteuo does not mean 'faith' because 'faith' is a noun. Pisteuo means to 'have faith'. The demons believe that God is one, the only God that exists. James' point is, so what, that is not the faith that saves. That is an empty, useless faith that does not justify. The demons themselves, and the nature of their lostness and disobedience being the evidence of that. The faith that justifies is identified by the righteous work that accompanies it.

"...things (works, love) that accompany salvation." Hebrews 6:9-10​

So you STILL lose the argument.

YOUR podition all along had been that the demons "have Faith" (Pisteuo, James 2:19).
However - according to Strong's Greek Concordance, this word hasa MULTIPLE definitions - and NOT all of them mean "Having Faith".

This is James's argument regardijng the demons - that they have BELIEF - but NOT Faith.
Just accept the fact that you've been proven wrong - and learn from it instead of continuing this asinine argument.