Secure Eternal Salvation

[theefaith]

Peter in Galatians 2 was acting immorally, which shows lack of faith.
that is exactly why he was disciplined!

only God Himself is infallible

then why would you think the truth revealed by God could be reformed?
Or the church founded by God?

Christ and his church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

The church is an extension of Christ to the whole world for all ages!

 

[theefaith]

IN Genesis 15:6, what work did Abraham have along with his faith in that moment that God made him righteous? None of course. And Paul calls him our example of how we also receive the righteousness that is from God through faith without work.

But it is also true that, later, the righteousness that Abraham received through faith without works was seen in his obedience to God, and so he is our example of how we are justified that way, too, in that our works show us to have the righteousness that comes from God through faith without works.

What is the source of truth for Christians?

 

[theefaith]

We will not achieve "sinless perfection" in this life; but we are saved by faith, resting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus at the Cross.

Being saved Monday, lost again Tuesday, saved again Wednesday, doubtful Thursday......This is not the Gospel.

Saved? No
Saved by faith alone? No

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[theefaith]

Baptism!

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church

No, we Protestants hear directly from God through the Holy Spirit.

9Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him..." 1 John 5:9-10​

"26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. " 1 John 2:26-27 (that is, we do not need anyone to discern truth for us)​

That is how believers, themselves, are equipped to test who is a real apostle and teacher and who is not.

"2 ...I know that you cannot tolerate those who are evil, and you have tested and exposed as liars those who falsely claim to be apostles." Revelation 2:2
​

And, quite frankly, your Catholic 'apostolic' priesthood has been found lacking.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What is the source of truth for Christians?

The Holy Spirit. See post above.
He may speak through a person in an official spiritual office, or through your fellow believer, but ultimately, it is the Holy Spirit within the believer that tells the flock who is telling the truth and who is not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Saved by faith alone? No

Justification is what is by faith apart from works.
You must be careful to understand the argument properly.
You must be justified in order to be in a state of salvation and deliverance from the penalty of unrighteousness.
Works only save in the sense that they are the obligatory and expected outcome of one's continuing faith. The continuing faith itself keeping you justified in the eyes of God and eligible for salvation, not the works that faith produces.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it is grace from the merits of Christ that enables us to do so!

Okay, so you agree that works are the result of grace through faith. Not the procurer of the grace of justification.

 

[theefaith]

I

No, we Protestants hear directly from God through the Holy Spirit.

9Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God has this testimony within him..." 1 John 5:9-10​

"26I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. " 1 John 2:26-27 (that is, we do not need anyone to discern truth for us)​

That is how believers, themselves, are equipped to test who is a real apostle and teacher and who is not.

"2 ...I know that you cannot tolerate those who are evil, and you have tested and exposed as liars those who falsely claim to be apostles." Revelation 2:2
​

And, quite frankly, your Catholic 'apostolic' priesthood has been found lacking.

Lk 10:16

 

[theefaith]

The Holy Spirit. See post above.
He may speak through a person in an official spiritual office, or through your fellow believer, but ultimately, it is the Holy Spirit within the believer that tells the flock who is telling the truth and who is not.

the only public teaching authority is that of the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Jn 20:21
Jn 16:13

 

[BreadOfLife]

I do listen to THEM.
Why don’t you?
No I just take them for what they say.
You want to bring in passages which contradict those verses when we use them as you use them
The Bible must agree. It can not contradict.
You need to stop listening to what you are told. And start to listen to the apostles themselves.

Interesting . . .

And if Protestants ONLY listened to what the Apostl4es said - why are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects - ALL reaching different and contradictory doctrines based on the different interretations of what the Apostles taught?

Food for thought . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the only public teaching authority is that of the apostles! Matt 28:19-20 Jn 20:21
Jn 16:13

That does not mean everybody who claims to have authority truly has official teaching authority and are real apostles. We are to test who is a real apostle and who is not, and as I say, we have found your Catholic priesthood to be false apostles.

And in regard to teaching, we can in fact teach one another...

"14I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, brimming with knowledge, and able to instruct one another. " Romans 15:14​

I mean, isn't that what you are doing here? And just as we examine and test what people who claim to hold official offices of ministry teach, so, we also test, through the discernment of the Holy Spirit, what others, like yourself, teach and proclaim.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Interesting . . .

And if Protestants ONLY listened to what the Apostl4es said - why are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects - ALL reaching different and contradictory doctrines based on the different interretations of what the Apostles taught?

Food for thought . . .

Nobody starts out in perfect knowledge. We're all at different levels of knowledge as we believers grow up into the image and stature of Christ. And of course, we Protestants aren't any more immune to false teachers as you Catholics are. We're just able to tell false teachers to talk to the hand and move on. You can't. You aren't allowed to. You are told that you must accept whatever a Catholic priest tells you. You aren't allowed to question it (and look where it's gotten you). There is no freedom of conscience and the ministry of the discernment of the Holy Spirit in the life of a Catholic. It's not allowed.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Lk 10:16

You aren't paying attention. I am able to discern through the Holy Spirit who is teaching truth and who is not for it to be of any consequence if I reject them. I'm not rejecting Christ when I reject a Catholic priest that Christ did not send.

"Whoever listens to you listens to Me; whoever rejects you rejects Me; and whoever rejects Me rejects the One who sent Me.” Luke 10:16​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Interesting . . .

And if Protestants ONLY listened to what the Apostl4es said - why are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects - ALL reaching different and contradictory doctrines based on the different interretations of what the Apostles taught?

Food for thought . . .

who cares how many churches there are.

My eternity is not based on how many denominations their are. what man says what. or what church I go to.

My eternity is dependent on how I interpret the word.

God is not going to give me a pass if I went to a particular church because the Church is in error.

 

[BreadOfLife]

We know 'belief' and 'faith' are the same thing from this:

“Abraham believed (pisteuo) God, and it (pisteuo) was credited to him as righteousness.” Romans 4:3​

'Believed' is the same word as in James 2:19 where James talks about the demons who also 'believe' (pisteuo). The difference is the demons believing does not justify because they believe something about God (God is the one and only God), not believe God's promise as Abraham did.

If you need further proof that a 'belief' and 'faith' are the same thing (pistis in the Greek) consider the fact that right in James' passage he equates the belief the demons have with the same belief a person may have and calls that dead faith, and a faith that can not save.

WOW.
How can you be so dense as to have something ecplained to them a DOZEN trimes and STILL not get it??

I spell it out as simply as I can so you will understand . . .
- "Pisteuo" is ONE word.
- However, this ONE word has MORE than ONE definition.
- The English equivalent would be, "Believe".

Still with me?
Good - let's move on . . .

-s I have showm you several times now - botj "Pisteuo" and "Beliebr" can mean:
- "To think or to accept as true" (verb, transitive).
OR, it can mean:
- "To have faith" (verb, intransitive).

YOUR failure lies in the fact that you ignorantly claim that "Pisteuo" ONLY means "Faith".

Hope that helps.

 

[BreadOfLife]

who cares how many churches there are.
My eternity is not based on how many denominations their are. what man says what. or what church I go to.
My eternity is dependent on how I interpret the word.

God is not going to give me a pass if I went to a particular church because the Church is in error.

And WHICH one of those tens of thousands of iunterpretations is the "correct" one?

Where do YOU go to settle matters - as prescribed by Christ Himself:
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

WHO caes?
GOD does.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

WOW.
How can you be so dense as to have something ecplained to them a DOZEN trimes and STILL not get it??

I spell it out as simply as I can so you will understand . . .
- "Pisteuo" is ONE word.
- However, this ONE word has MORE than ONE definition.
- The English equivalent would be, "Believe".

Still with me?
Good - let's move on . . .

-s I have showm you several times now - botj "Pisteuo" and "Beliebr" can mean:
- "To think or to accept as true" (verb, transitive).
OR, it can mean:
- "To have faith" (verb, intransitive).

YOUR failure lies in the fact that you ignorantly claim that "Pisteuo" ONLY means "Faith".

Hope that helps.

But you haven't explained why James calls the belief of the people who have the belief of the demons 'faith'. He calls their 'belief' (the same belief the demons have) dead 'faith', and the 'faith' that can not save. Why does he do that if, as you claim, 'belief' is not 'faith'?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

And WHICH one of those tens of thousands of iunterpretations is the "correct" one?

First off, there are not 'tens of thousands of interpretations' of any one verse or passage of scripture in the Protestant church, lol. What you are referring to is the sum total of collections of doctrinal beliefs, like in the Catholic church. No one collection matches exactly to another. One will be in agreement on this and that point, but differ in one other point and so they identify themselves accordingly. But to say there are tens of thousands of interpretations of any one verse or passage of scripture is just...well, stupid.

Secondly, according to Apostle John, each believer has the capacity within himself by the Holy Spirit to know what part of this denomination's doctrinal creed is truth and what part of another denomination's doctrinal creed is truth. And so we Protestants are not limited by the doctrinal walls of just one interpretation of scripture like you are. Even though, lol, even some of you Catholics are beginning to see it much wiser to not let someone else do your discerning for you, and so you are splintering off into various factions of Catholicism.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And WHICH one of those tens of thousands of iunterpretations is the "correct" one?

Where do YOU go to settle matters - as prescribed by Christ Himself:
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother.
If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

WHO caes?
GOD does.

To the word of God

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

matt 18 was given to the apostles

The ONLY way to tell which church is correct. is to study the truly inspired scripture.

You want to place your eternity in the hands of men. Feel free.

Once again, eternity is to long for me to risk listening to men who got it wrong.

and your right. God cares. that's why he gave us the inspired word.