Secure Eternal Salvation

[Eternally Grateful]

Christ is the truth and he founded the church to teach the truth matt 28:19-20

Yep he did

And his church would teach what the apostles taught, and the word would be their only Guide.

If a church teaches different that what the bible teaches. we have to look elsewhere for the truth, Much like the jews in Jesus day Had to go outside what God had set up in the priesthood. and find the truth in the word. Because the priesthood through human error got away from the truth.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If a person calls himself a Protestant, then it is appropriate for another to use the same term about him.
You deciding what individuals are or are not, is irrelevant.

amen to the last line, amen

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If a person calls himself a Protestant, then it is appropriate for another to use the same term about him.
You deciding what individuals are or are not, is irrelevant.

I think that anyone who is not Catholic by choice is in one form or another protesting the doctrine and methodology of the Catholic church. Most Protestants are Protestant by default - they're not Catholic.

 

[Taken]

I think that anyone who is not Catholic by choice is in one form or another protesting the doctrine and methodology of the Catholic church. Most Protestants are Protestant by default - they're not Catholic.

Just saying, people decide what befits them best. Messianic Jews believe in Christ Jesus, but do not call themselves “Christians”. Christians themselves have a wide flavor of beliefs, from a man following and believing...to a man who has become “Converted”. Catholics had people who WERE Catholic, PROTESTED what Catholics were preaching, and with disappointment, left the Catholic Church, in favor of preaching the Scriptural Word of God.
I do not have a need to PROTEST against Catholics, I simply disagree with much they DO preach, (on this forum), otherwise, I rarely have a thought of what Catholics think, believe or do.
I am comfortable with Jesus’ “terminology”.... Converted...IN Christ.


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I rarely have a thought of what Catholics think, believe or do.

Me too, and it's been that way for all of my life and I like it that way. They are in a completely different paradigm of thought from us and rarely do our paths cross. And it should be that way, IMO. A handful of Catholics have come into the forum breaching the wall that stands between us and I guess they have the freedom to be here just like we do, but they have to understand they're coming into our world, not us coming into theirs. And, if they are going to push the supremacy of their church onto us they should at least give us the courtesy of listening politely as to why we are not Catholic. And for me, Romans 14:17-18 sums it all up:

"17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking (the cold, dead procedures of 'religion'), but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." Romans 14:17-18​

Having a relationship with God is not about possessing and executing the only proper and approved procedures of worship that he'll accept, as if that's what God is demanding from us. It's about being a son of God growing up into the image and stature and character of big brother Jesus. The externals of 'church' count for nothing. That's not what God is looking for. He's looking for godly character. That is what is "pleasing to God and approved by men".

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Just saying, people decide what befits them best. Messianic Jews believe in Christ Jesus, but do not call themselves “Christians”. Christians themselves have a wide flavor of beliefs, from a man following and believing...to a man who has become “Converted”. Catholics had people who WERE Catholic, PROTESTED what Catholics were preaching, and with disappointment, left the Catholic Church, in favor of preaching the Scriptural Word of God.
I do not have a need to PROTEST against Catholics, I simply disagree with much they DO preach, (on this forum), otherwise, I rarely have a thought of what Catholics think, believe or do.
I am comfortable with Jesus’ “terminology”.... Converted...IN Christ.


Glory to God,
Taken

This is probably the best explanation I have heard. Amen.

former Catholics protested the church. They are protestant.

That has nothing to do with me and many others today.

 

[Taken]

Me too, and it's been that way for all of my life and I like it that way. They are in a completely different paradigm of thought from us and rarely do our paths cross. And it should be that way, IMO. A handful of Catholics have come into the forum breaching the wall that stands between us and I guess they have the freedom to be here just like we do, but they have to understand they're coming into out world, not us coming into theirs. And, if they are going to push the supremacy of their church onto us they should at least give us the courtesy of listening politely as to why we are not Catholic. And for me, Romans 14:17-18 sums it all up:

"17For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking (the cold, dead procedures of 'religion'), but of righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For whoever serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men." Romans 14:17-18​

Having a relationship with God is not about possessing and executing the only proper and approved procedures of worship, as if that's what God is demanding from us. It's about being a son of God growing up into the image and stature and character of big brother Jesus. The externals count for nothing. That's not what God is looking for. He's looking for godly character. That is what is "pleasing to God and approved by men".

Fact is; most people I know or meet, and Religion is mentioned, it is nearly always the one who says they ARE Catholic, (some even saying they were born Catholic), but do not practice Catholicism (and go to church 2X a year), or they Used to be Catholic, and mostly are turned off for belief in anything.
On the other hand, others simply proclaim what they DO believe, in general terms.
(Sure have seen here and there clips of the Pope, thought it a whole weird getup..My greatest exposure to Catholicism has been on this forum...and to say the least, shocking.)

Agree, a relationship with the Lord God, is not about the name tags.

 

[theefaith]

Yep he did

And his church would teach what the apostles taught, and the word would be their only Guide.

If a church teaches different that what the bible teaches. we have to look elsewhere for the truth, Much like the jews in Jesus day Had to go outside what God had set up in the priesthood. and find the truth in the word. Because the priesthood through human error got away from the truth.

What the church teaches is The word of God

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What the church teaches is The word of God

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

 

[theefaith]

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

I don’t mean they teach the Bible, but there teaching is the word of God same as scripture

The word of God:

The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone” as some erroneously teach!

The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptistin the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!

Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…

Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.

Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!

Matt 28:18-20

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ

1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)

2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

The eunuch had the scripture but God sent an apostle to teach him the truth.

Acts 2:42 does not say; they held fast to thier personal private judgement of the “Bible alone” but the doctrine of the apostles.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

The evidence of true faith is humble subjection and obedience to Christ & His holy church!

The rule of faith for Christians is Jesus Christ Jn 14:6 and His church! Matt 18:17 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics, but we listen faithfully to Christ, in the bosom of holy mother church, the only ark of salvation!
1 pet 3:20-21 matt 18:17 matt 16:18-19 matt 28:19-20 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-23

Truth must be revealed by God thru Christ to His church (the apostles Jude 1:3) then must be proposed by the church, (Matt 28:19 gal 3:23) without error by the Holy Spirit! (Jn 16:13)

Christ and His church are one! (Acts 9:4 eph 5:31 Jn 15:1-5)

Rejection of the one true church or its teaching is rejection of Christ and God!

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 8:12 & Matt 5:14

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What the church teaches is The word of God

Your church?

Sorry, But I disagree with you.

They teach what has been handed down to them or changed by the pope since the third century AD when it was created

 

[Ferris Bueller]

True Christians cannot listen to the errors of excommunicated heretics

Ultimately, true Christians have the capacity within themselves by the Holy Spirit to determine who is an heretic and who is not. They don't have to just blindly go by what someone tells them.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone” as some erroneously teach!

In regard to doctrine, yes, the Bible alone is the sole authority at this time in church history. In regard to spiritual guidance and counsel, you know, how to handle a particular situation, or something like that, then, yes, God's voice is not limited to the Bible, but that guidance and counsel will never contradict the Bible.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!

We call that 'the Bible'.
That's all we need.
The Catholic church has taken it upon themselves to make changes that they say were made authoritatively.
They don't seem to realize that makes it impossible to challenge what they say, because they say they have the authority to make whatever changes they want, because they have a special office to do that. That's a cult. They aren't accountable to anybody.

 

[theefaith]

Your church?

Sorry, But I disagree with you.

They teach what has been handed down to them or changed by the pope since the third century AD when it was created

there is only one church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19

 

[theefaith]

We call that 'the Bible'.
That's all we need.
The Catholic church has taken it upon themselves to make changes that they say were made authoritatively.
They don't seem to realize that makes it impossible to challenge what they say, because they say they have the authority to make whatever changes they want, because they have a special office to do that. That's a cult. They aren't accountable to anybody.

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,

 

[theefaith]

In regard to doctrine, yes, the Bible alone is the sole authority at this time in church history. In regard to spiritual guidance and counsel, you know, how to handle a particular situation, or something like that, then, yes, God's voice is not limited to the Bible, but that guidance and counsel will never contradict the Bible.

We must admit there is a moral necessity for divine revelation:
And that this divine revelation must be conveyed to all men without change or error:


1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

 

[Eternally Grateful]

there is only one church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19

yep

And the roman empire overthrough that church in the 300's. shut it up. and sent them underground, and created the monster you belong to today.

 

[Pearl]

What the church teaches is The word of God

What the bible teaches is the Word of God. What Jesus teaches is the word of God. What man teaches is the word of fallible man.

 

[theefaith]

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

Matthias succeeded him as apostle

acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

Matt 28:19-20
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Isa 22 21-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18