Faith verses Mysticism

[bbyrd009]

and considers submission to be weakness of will

as near as i can recall, this is not Tao at all? Does water need to surrender? Surrender implies uncontemplated action, right?

 

[michaelvpardo]

as near as i can recall, this is not Tao at all? Does water need to surrender? Surrender implies uncontemplated action, right?

Not really, it's more like doing without doing, ( even water destroys stone, but without doing anything but being water.) Taoism isn't true religion. It doesn't recognize Jesus Christ as the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
Lao Tzu clearly understood certain spiritual principles, but God can be known. He chose to reveal Himself in the person of His Son.
Taoism falls short of truth because its built on the contemplation of a fallen creation under a curse, and the concept of duality which is only true when light and dark "coexist " each containing the seed of the other.

The truth is that God created all things, darkness is the absence of light, and that God sees the darkness as easily as He sees the light. He is not dualistic in character, nor part of His creation, but entered creation in the persons of His Holy Spirit, and His Son.

Taoist thought gives us this doctrine that Wu Chi (stillness ) became Tai Chi (when set in motion) and that creation was the result of this indescribable "way" as the prime mover. In this sense its comparable to the "breath of God" stirring the waters of the deep, but leaves out the person of the prime mover, even Jesus Christ our Lord.

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning. James 1:17

God is not capricious. He doesn’t change His mind. His character is good and eternally so. Within Him there is no darkness at all.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

While I believe that we were created for greater things in Christ, according to scripture we're little more than animated mud men so I'm not inclined to believe in any "latent power" in man. It's no coincidence that I met a psychic who demonstrated a real ability to effect physical disturbance with his mind and will, and the same claimed that my childhood invisible friend "Jesus", who actually answered unselfish prayers, was not Jesus at all.

Unclean Spirits, demonic forces, fallen angels, all have power derived originally from God (His gifts and calling are irrevocable ), but as forces of the adversary, they've chosen to use those powers in deception, to draw people away from the truth in Christ Jesus. Satan wants us to share in his condemnation by exhalting ourselves against God, and all modern religions are just variations on the original lie, "You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” Genesis 3:4-5
False religions generally teach that through knowledge you can become "as God" while scripture teaches that we can be renewed in His image by submitting to His word and through faith in His Son. The world's religions are about attaining godliness through our own effort, while saving faith is about allowing God to work in and through us. This describes the righteousness of men trying to climb to the heavens, verses the righteousness of God saving us and lifting us out of the mud.

That sounds about like what Nee says on it too.
Except for believing there really was some vestige of Adams capabilities enclosed in the fallen flesh that it was not lawful after the fall to go after and that satan seeks to use those latent powers in endtimes.

 

[michaelvpardo]

That sounds about like what Nee says on it too.
Except for believing there really was some vestige of Adams capabilities enclosed in the fallen flesh that it was not lawful after the fall to go after and that satan seeks to use those latent powers in endtimes.

OK. We are wonderfully made and it didn’t take a degree for me to figure out, but my studies in biology only made me aware of two notable things.
Life is amazingly complicated with many mutually codependent processes that couldn't possibly "evolve" independent of each other, eg: life is a requirement for the hypothetical process of evolution, so codependent processes couldn't "evolve."

The other notable thing that I discovered is that "scientists " choose to believe the improbable, or even the physically impossible, rather than accept the idea of a creator who will judge them.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Hmm…episkopos said something that I thought of when I was reading what you posted.
Moses went up on the mountain and spoke face to face with God. Yet no man may see Gods face and live. So it was was Jesus he spoke with face to face, not God.
I wonder what a Taoist would think of that…
Not that it would help them much, because they would then accept God but not Jesus who is the door to God.

I’m very glad for you.

Well, Jesus referred to Himself as the "door", "narrow gate", the "way, the truth and the life", but it is entirely appropriate to say that Moses spoke face to face with God when talking with the pre incarnate Lord.

Some people think that God had a "form" prior to creation, but a literal interpretation of scripture suggests that God's only "form" is seen in the person of His Son. John wrote two separate passages, one that says no man has seen God at any time, and one that says simply no one has seen God at any time, and I'm convinced that He meant God in all His glory. Yet, Jesus is described as the glory of God.

The idea of form is consistent with creation. Every created thing has form, but how does invisible spirit have form? Spirit isn't quantifiable (given out by measure) but is observed by effect, like wind moving leaves.

The bible gives us descriptions of the throne room of God as prophetic visions, but the visions might be the only way for our minds to grasp the concepts. The whole point of scripture is to reveal God in the person of His Son, and it's written for us to grasp. The implication is that everything witnessed as God in scripture is the Son of God in preincarnate form. I don't want to be dogmatic about something that I haven't beheld with my own eyes, but by Christ's testimony, I have no problem receiving Jesus as Yah havah (Jehovah ) incarnate, or as the "ancient of days."

In my personal experience, Jehovah's witnesses aren't able to accept the concept as I understand it, so I wouldn't expect Taoists to either, but that which we know "as fact" isn't really a matter of faith. That's why scholarship always falls short. We can arrive at some understanding by study, but faith remains trusting in things unseen and unknown.
If we could know everything with scientific certainty, there would be no room for faith and God has declared " the just shall live by faith." There is no circumvention of God's decree, just as there is no way to be born again by our own will.

 

[Behold]

NetChaplain said:
"That ye should not obey the truth" is the strongest statement Paul made against them,""""""

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Actually he made 3.

1. ""Bewitched.""" (who has bewitched you) so, this shows us that they were DECEIVED...... = and here is why..... Hebrews 13:9

2. "did not obey the truth", ...... as "should not" means they did not......its present tense.

3. they are "in the Flesh"......this is, a carnal mind, that is become spiritually darkened so that it does not, and can not, "obey the Truth"....because it is "bewitched".

Who are these people?

They are anyone who believes that "you can lose your salvation"......as this person is not "obeying the Truth" which is......GOD saves you, and keeps you saved, the same WAY He saved you.
That "WAY", is only one.........Its this ONE...... John 14:6

 

[Netchaplain]

NetChaplain said:
"That ye should not obey the truth" is the strongest statement Paul made against them,""""""

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Actually he made 3.

1. ""Bewitched.""" (who has bewitched you) so, this shows us that they were DECEIVED...... = and here is why..... Hebrews 13:9

These were immature Christians at this time and Paul was reproving them, so that they would be more clear as to what they have and who they are in Christ.

J Gill - "Some false teacher or another had, or it cannot be conceived how their heads should ever have been turned this way; which must be understood, not in a literal and proper sense, as Simon Magus bewitched the people of Samaria with his sorceries, but in a figurative and improper one; that as sorcerers and enchanters cast a mist before people's eyes, or, by some evil arts or juggling tricks, deceive their sight, and make objects seem to appear which do not, or in a different form than they really do, so these deceitful workers, who had transformed themselves into the apostles of Christ, as Satan sometimes transforms himself into an angel of light, had set this doctrine in a false light before them, thereby to corrupt their minds from the simplicity that is in Christ."
Galatians 3 Bible Commentary - John Gill’s Exposition of the Bible

"did not obey the truth", ...... as "should not" means they did not......its present tense.

We disagree here, "should" is in the sense of attempting to persuade or urge, not convince.

J Gill - "The doctrine of justification by the righteousness of Christ is the truth the apostle is establishing, and these Galatians seemed to be going off from, through the artful insinuations of the false teachers. Formerly these people had not only heard this truth, but embraced it: they received the love of it, were strongly affected to it, and firmly believed but now they began to hesitate and doubt about it; they were not so fully persuaded of it as heretofore; they seemed ready to let it go, at least did not hold it fast, and the profession of it, without wavering as before; they were fallen from some degree of the steadfastness of their faith in, and of the obedience of it to this truth, which is what was the design of the false apostles, and is here charged upon the Galatians."

Appreciate your reply and comments!