James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

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Romans 11:6 says,
“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”

Yet James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17).
James says that works justify and not faith alone (James 2:24).

Both James and Paul are correct. They are teaching two sides of the coin of faith.
Faith starts off as a belief alone in being saved by God's grace without works.
But then faith continues with the second side of the coin of faith in entering the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit in obeying God, and doing good works, putting away sin, and living holy and not justifying sin.

Two different aspects of salvation are being described.
Paul describes the first aspect of salvation in being saved by God's grace without works.
James describes the second aspect of salvation that follows after you are saved by God's grace (Which does involve works and living holy etcetera by God's power).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It's like the Trinity. The Lord our God is one God and yet... He exists as three distinct persons. To many this sounds like a contradiction. But it's not. God's truths have a way of harmonizing if we pray and seek the Scriptures on it long enough. This is the same thing involving God's plan of salvation when we read verses that make salvation appear like it is not of works and then we read other verses that makes it appear like it is of works. One has to rightly divide. The issue of course is time. One aspect of salvation happens at one point in time (Initial Salvation), and the other second aspect of salvation happens at another later point in time (after we are saved by God's grace).

 

[Titus]

After many years of studying and prayer in discovering that there are two aspects of salvation, I found out later that a few other Christians believed the same way I did.

Here is one Christian who explains that there are two aspects of salvation.



Initial and Final Salvation

However, he calls it: Initial Salvation and Final Salvation.
But I don't like the term “Final Salvation” because it is a bit misleading in the fact that “Glorification” (The Rapture and or God taking us home to be with Him in His kingdom) is Final Salvation. Also, being saved by God's grace continues on into the life of the believer and it is our foundation because if we happen to stumble on rare occasion (unintentionally), we can confess of our sins to Jesus in order be forgiven of our sins (See: 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9). This is God's grace. This is our lifeline. We also continue to stand upon believing the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 in that it saves us, too. For we must always believe the good news that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day (for our salvation). This grace... then leads to the next step or aspect of salvation.

The Bible teaches us by examples given on how to be saved.

The conversions in the book of Acts make it simple to know Jesus' gospel plan of salvation.
Study every conversion and you will know how the gospel saves.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Bible teaches us by examples given on how to be saved.

The conversions in the book of Acts make it simple to know Jesus' gospel plan of salvation.
Study every conversion and you will know how the gospel saves.

I read through the entire thread. I looked at your proposal that Acts of the Apostles 22:16 is the gospel. I have discussed this verse many times in other threads and prayed over it and read this verse many times over. It is nice to look at the discussion again with a fresh pair of eyes (so that I may not be biased to anything). So I looked. I went back in Acts and looked for the word “gospel” and thought about when Paul received the gospel and the statements Paul made in regards to the gospel, too. No gospel message was being promoted in Acts 22. The word gospel is not even mentioned in Acts 22. I believe a person can be saved by God's grace in different ways. Take the thief on the cross as one example. While the gospel was going out in previous chapters in the book of Acts before Acts 22, we know Paul was not around sometime between Acts 10 and Acts 12. For in Galatians 1:17-18, it says Paul went to Arabia for three years. This is most likely where he learned of the FULL gospel message from Jesus Christ. For Paul says he did not learn this gospel from man but from Jesus Christ (See: Galatians 1:11-12). While the gospel message was spoken to others like with Peter talking about gospel message to Cornelius (in Christ's death and resurrection), it was not specifically labeled as the gospel until it was formalized in writing with the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (i.e. Holy Scripture).

Anyways, in Acts 22:16, do you believe the word ARISE is a part of the gospel message or salvation? Could a person not arise and just slide down a hill into a pool of water to be baptized? Does he really have to ARISE to be saved? Surely not. See, Paul says elsewhere that he comes not to baptize but to preach the gospel. That would be silly to say that baptism is the gospel because that would contradict Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 1:17. That would be like Paul saying, Christ sent me not to preach the gospel (to baptize), but to preach the gospel. People would look at him like a lunatic if that is what he was saying. So baptism is obvious not the gospel. The gospel is clearly defined for us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Before the cross, a proto gospel (basic gospel) was preached in that Jesus was the Messiah or Savior. So 1 Corinthians 1:17 proves baptism is not for salvation. Because Paul would look like an idiot if he said Christ did not send me to save anyone initially with water baptism, but to preach the gospel (water baptism).

So taking verses like 1 Corinthians 1:17 into account and believing it, we it must be that the word AND starts a new thought in Acts 22:16 and that Paul is saying that washing away your sins is a part of calling upon the Lord. The words before the word AND does not count as a part of that. The word AND is a new thought.

Acts of the Apostles 22:16
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

So wash away your sins calling upon the name of the Lord is what saves.
For Romans 10:13 says,
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Oh, and to make you really do backflips in disagreement or amazement, I believe the baptism in Ephesians 4:5 is Spirit baptism. The baptism of today is no longer with water but it is a baptism into the Spirit when a person first receives Jesus Christ as their Savior (in being saved by God's grace).

See here to learn more.

 

[Titus]

I read through the entire thread. I looked at your proposal that Acts of the Apostles 22:16 is the gospel. I have discussed this verse many times in other threads and prayed over it and read this verse many times over. It is nice to look at the discussion again with a fresh pair of eyes (so that I may not be biased to anything). So I looked. I went back in Acts and looked for the word “gospel” and thought about when Paul received the gospel and the statements Paul made in regards to the gospel, too. No gospel message was being promoted in Acts 22. The word gospel is not even mentioned in Acts 22. I believe a person can be saved by God's grace in different ways. Take the thief on the cross as one example. While the gospel was going out in previous chapters in the book of Acts before Acts 22, we know Paul was not around sometime between Acts 10 and Acts 12. For in Galatians 1:17-18, it says Paul went to Arabia for three years. This is most likely where he learned of the FULL gospel message from Jesus Christ. For Paul says he did not learn this gospel from man but from Jesus Christ (See: Galatians 1:11-12). While the gospel message was spoken to others like with Peter talking about gospel message to Cornelius (in Christ's death and resurrection), it was not specifically labeled as the gospel until it was formalized in writing with the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (i.e. Holy Scripture).

Anyways, in Acts 22:16, do you believe the word ARISE is a part of the gospel message or salvation? Could a person not arise and just slide down a hill into a pool of water to be baptized? Does he really have to ARISE to be saved? Surely not. See, Paul says elsewhere that he comes not to baptize but to preach the gospel. That would be silly to say that baptism is the gospel because that would contradict Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 1:17. That would be like Paul saying, Christ sent me not to preach the gospel (to baptize), but to preach the gospel. People would look at him like a lunatic if that is what he was saying. So baptism is obvious not the gospel. The gospel is clearly defined for us in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Before the cross, a proto gospel (basic gospel) was preached in that Jesus was the Messiah or Savior. So 1 Corinthians 1:17 proves baptism is not for salvation. Because Paul would look like an idiot if he said Christ did not send me to save anyone initially with water baptism, but to preach the gospel (water baptism).

So taking verses like 1 Corinthians 1:17 into account and believing it, we it must be that the word AND starts a new thought in Acts 22:16 and that Paul is saying that washing away your sins is a part of calling upon the Lord. The words before the word AND does not count as a part of that. The word AND is a new thought.

Acts of the Apostles 22:16
“And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.”

So wash away your sins calling upon the name of the Lord is what saves.
For Romans 10:13 says,
“For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

Oh, and to make you really do backflips in disagreement or amazement, I believe the baptism in Ephesians 4:5 is Spirit baptism. The baptism of today is no longer with water but it is a baptism into the Spirit when a person first receives Jesus Christ as their Savior (in being saved by God's grace).

See here to learn more.

Acts 9 is Paul's conversion story. Acts 22:16 is Paul's recap of what occurred. Acts 9 is the gospel preached to Paul by Ananias. You need to read it again if you saw "no gospel".

 

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Acts 9 is Paul's conversion story. Acts 22:16 is Paul's recap of what occurred. Acts 9 is the gospel preached to Paul by Ananias. You need to read it again if you saw "no gospel".

I have been aware for a long time of what happens in Acts 9, and Acts 22. I know Acts 9 is Paul encountering Ananias and Acts 22 is Paul relaying what happened to him in Acts 9. That's not news for me and nor does it help your case here, my friend. Nowhere does the word “gospel” appear in these chapters. Sure, we may see a possible initial salvation experienced about to happen, but you have to understand that Paul persecuted Christians. Paul would have known the story from Christians about the gospel message in that Christ died for their sins and He was risen three days later. So when Paul was coming before Ananias (after His experience with the Lord) he obviously had all of this information already in mind about believers in “The Way.” Also, nowhere does a definition that is tied to the word gospel appear in these chapters, either (that would support your view). You are merely making assumptions, friend. The gospel is defined for us clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Just read it, and believe it.

 

[Titus]

I have been aware for a long time of what happens in Acts 9, and Acts 22. I know Acts 9 is Paul encountering Ananias and Acts 22 is Paul relaying what happened to him in Acts 9. That's not news for me and nor does it help your case here, my friend. Nowhere does the word “gospel” appear in these chapters. Sure, we may see a possible initial salvation experienced about to happen, but you have to understand that Paul persecuted Christians. Paul would have known the story from Christians about the gospel message in that Christ died for their sins and He was risen three days later. So when Paul was coming before Ananias (after His experience with the Lord) he obviously had all of this information already in mind about believers in “The Way.” Also, nowhere does a definition that is tied to the word gospel appear in these chapters, either (that would support your view). You are merely making assumptions, friend. The gospel is defined for us clearly in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. Just read it, and believe it.

Ok, according to how you are teaching me Bible interpretation.
We must have the word gospel spoken everytime the gospel is being taught.

Paul used the word gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-4 you found your word gospel there.

Now I have another passage that uses the word gospel.
Will you except it as The gospel?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every nation.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Paul used the word gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-4
Jesus used the word gospel in Mark 16:15-16.

Paul was told to do what Jesus said in His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.
Arise and be immersed and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord, Acts 22:16

Now, I believe you are intelligent enough to see the similarity without Paul having to use the word gospel in Acts 22:16.

 

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Acts 9 is Paul's conversion story. Acts 22:16 is Paul's recap of what occurred. Acts 9 is the gospel preached to Paul by Ananias. You need to read it again if you saw "no gospel".

There is also Acts 15:7, too.

Acts of the Apostles 15:7
“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”

Skip back to the Gentiles hearing the gospel by Peter in Acts 10. What was the word of gospel that these Gentiles believed?

Source:
Acts 10 KJV

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:

Source:
1 Corinthians 15 KJV

 

[Titus]

There is also Acts 15:7, too.

Acts of the Apostles 15:7
“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”

Skip back to the Gentiles hearing the gospel by Peter in Acts 10. What was the word of gospel that these Gentiles believed?

Source:
Acts 10 KJV

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:

Source:
1 Corinthians 15 KJV

Every person converted in the book of Acts was water baptized just as Jesus' gospel was preached before Acts. Mark 16:15-16.

Do you except Jesus gospel and Paul's gospel?

Do you believe they are one in the same gospel or are you a two gospels dispensationalist?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ok, according to how you are teaching me Bible interpretation.
We must have the word gospel spoken everytime the gospel is being taught.

Paul used the word gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-4 you found your word gospel there.

Now I have another passage that uses the word gospel.
Will you except it as The gospel?

Mark 16:15-16
And He said to them, Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every nation.
He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Paul used the word gospel in 1Corinthians 15:1-4
Jesus used the word gospel in Mark 16:15-16.

Paul was told to do what Jesus said in His gospel in Mark 16:15-16.
Arise and be immersed and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord, Acts 22:16

Now, I believe you are intelligent enough to see the similarity without Paul having to use the word gospel in Acts 22:16.

Jesus said to preach the gospel in Mark 16:15-16 but He did not define it in this passage. He just said to preach the gospel (good news) and that is what Peter did in Acts 2:29-32 (Christs death, burial, and resurrection), and Acts 10:39-40 (Christ's death and resurrection).

Jesus did not say, I declare the gospel unto you and it is this....
________fill in the blank with said description_____________.

Jesus merely said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. Believe what? The gospel. The full gospel was given to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ (See again 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and Galatians 1:11).

The baptism that Jesus is telling His disciples to implement is Spirit baptism. For in Acts 1, Jesus says, “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

We see this new form of Spirit baptism implemented by the apostle Paul with the laying on of hands and the Ephesian believers receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7 says, “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” In other words, the believers at Ephesus only knew of John’s baptism of water, and they were not aware of the Holy Ghost. So Paul baptized them into the Holy Ghost by laying his hands on them. So they received the baptism of the Spirit.

For it is written:

“1 Corinthians 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

 

[Titus]

There is also Acts 15:7, too.

Acts of the Apostles 15:7
“And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.”

Skip back to the Gentiles hearing the gospel by Peter in Acts 10. What was the word of gospel that these Gentiles believed?

Source:
Acts 10 KJV

Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:

Source:
1 Corinthians 15 KJV

Peter taught the Gospel to Cornelius correct.

Did Peter command Cornelius to be water immersed,
Acts 10:47-48, yes

Since Peter commands water immersion, that makes it essential in Jesus gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Do you agree it is a must to be baptized and not non-essential.

Or are you someone who believes direct commandments are not to be taken seriously. No offense there are folks on here that don't think keeping commandments matter.

 

[Titus]

Jesus said to preach the gospel in Mark 16:15-16 but He did not define it in this passage. He just said to preach the gospel (good news) and that is what Peter did in Acts 2:29-32 (Christs death, burial, and resurrection), and Acts 10:39-40 (Christ's death and resurrection).

Jesus did not say, I declare the gospel unto you and it is this....
________fill in the blank with said description_____________.

Jesus merely said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. Believe what? The gospel. The full gospel was given to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ (See again 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and Galatians 1:11).

The baptism that Jesus is telling His disciples to implement is Spirit baptism. For in Acts 1, Jesus says, “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

We see this new form of Spirit baptism implemented by the apostle Paul with the laying on of hands and the Ephesian believers receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7 says, “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” In other words, the believers at Ephesus only knew of John’s baptism of water, and they were not aware of the Holy Ghost. So Paul baptized them into the Holy Ghost by laying his hands on them. So they received the baptism of the Spirit.

For it is written:

“1 Corinthians 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Come on!
Really?
You cannot see Jesus define His gospel when He taught what saves us: "believes and is baptized shall be saved"
That is defined. I can read Mark 16:15-16 and know that belief and baptism is defined in Jesus' gospel.

 

[Titus]

Jesus said to preach the gospel in Mark 16:15-16 but He did not define it in this passage. He just said to preach the gospel (good news) and that is what Peter did in Acts 2:29-32 (Christs death, burial, and resurrection), and Acts 10:39-40 (Christ's death and resurrection).

Jesus did not say, I declare the gospel unto you and it is this....
________fill in the blank with said description_____________.

Jesus merely said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. Believe what? The gospel. The full gospel was given to Paul by revelation of Jesus Christ (See again 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and Galatians 1:11).

The baptism that Jesus is telling His disciples to implement is Spirit baptism. For in Acts 1, Jesus says, “For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”

We see this new form of Spirit baptism implemented by the apostle Paul with the laying on of hands and the Ephesian believers receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7 says, “And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.” In other words, the believers at Ephesus only knew of John’s baptism of water, and they were not aware of the Holy Ghost. So Paul baptized them into the Holy Ghost by laying his hands on them. So they received the baptism of the Spirit.

For it is written:

“1 Corinthians 12:13 says, “For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

Here is another passage where Jesus defines what saves,
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Water is mentioned again by Jesus to be in the Kingdom. No one is saved outside the kingdom.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Peter taught the Gospel to Cornelius correct.

Peter spoke the gospel to Cornelius (giving an account of his experience), but I don't believe he was told by the Lord that it was the gospel as revealed by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 yet. I believe Peter only knew of the proto gospel (more simplistic gospel) in that Jesus is the Messiah or Savior but Peter was merely explaining what happened (by the guidance of God of course).

Did Peter command Cornelius to be water immersed,
Acts 10:47-48, yes

The book of Acts is not a theology book always. Sometimes it records the apostles mistakes. Peter desired them to be water baptized because he was still stuck in the Jewish Old Testament ways.

Hebrews 9:10 says, “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” The word “washings” is the Greek word “baptismos” (βαπτισμός) (Check out here for the Strong’s definition). In other words, Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today).

Since Peter commands water immersion, that makes it essential in Jesus gospel, Mark 16:15-16.
Do you agree it is a must to be baptized and not non-essential.

That's making a large leap of assumption there. Sort of like jumping from one cliff to another in connecting ideas that the Bible does not specifically spell out for us in this particular point in Scripture. In fact, we know that water baptism is not a part of the gospel because Paul says that Christ sent him not baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17).

Or are you someone who believes direct commandments are not to be taken seriously. No offense there are folks on here that don't think keeping commandments matter.

I believe there are Grace Commands, and Sanctification Commands.
We are first saved by God's grace without works initially, and then AFTERwards we are saved by entering the second aspect of salvation which is the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). So yes. Holiness is one aspect of salvation, but it is not how we first get saved and neither is it the foundation we build upon. Works alone will only condemn a person. Our good deeds cannot outweigh our bad deeds on some sort of cosmic scale. We need to be saved first by God's grace and mercy and wipe out our past slate of sin clean by the Lord by believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. Without that, there is no salvation to build upon. This is what Paul was arguing for. Grace without works for salvation. But... it's only in our Initial Salvation & it is Foundational. For if you sin, do you do a good work to redeem that sin or do you confess of that sin to Jesus? 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins an to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[Titus]

Peter spoke the gospel to Cornelius (giving an account of his experience), but I don't believe he was told by the Lord that it was the gospel as revealed by the apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 yet. I believe Peter only knew of the proto gospel (more simplistic gospel) in that Jesus is the Messiah or Savior but Peter was merely explaining what happened (by the guidance of God of course).



Because Peter was still stuck in the Jewish Old Testament ways.

Hebrews 9:10 says, “Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” The word “washings” is the Greek word “baptismos” (βαπτισμός) (Check out here for the Strong’s definition). In other words, Hebrews 9:10 is saying that diverse baptisms (washings) were imposed on believers until the time of reformation. Meaning, water baptism will give way or pass away until the time of reformation (Which means that Spirit baptism is now the one and only true baptism for today).



That's making a large leap of assumption there. Sort of like jumping from one cliff to another in connecting ideas that the Bible does not specifically spell out for us in this particular point in Scripture. In fact, we know that water baptism is not a part of the gospel because Paul says that Christ sent him not baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17).



I believe there are Grace Commands, and Sanctification Commands.
We are first saved by God's grace without works initially, and then AFTERwards we are saved by entering the second aspect of salvation which is the Sanctification of the Holy Spirit to live a holy life. For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). So yes. Holiness is one aspect of salvation, but it is not how we first get saved and neither is it the foundation we build upon. Works alone will only condemn a person. Our good deeds cannot outweigh our bad deeds on some sort of cosmic scale. We need to be saved first by God's grace and mercy and wipe out our past slate of sin clean by the Lord by believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ. Without that, there is no salvation to build upon. This is what Paul was arguing for. Grace without works for salvation. But... it's only in our Initial Salvation & it is Foundational. For if you sin, do you do a good work to redeem that sin or do you confess of that sin to Jesus? 1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins an to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Sorry, I don't buy the limited understanding argument or stuck in Judaism.

Sir, either Peter was baptized by the Holy Spirit and given all miraculous knowledge or he wasn't given what the scriptures teach.

You have decided Peter did not know everything the Spirit was promised to give ALL,of the apostles,

Acts 1:4-5
And being assembled together with them(apostles), He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem but to wait for the Promise of the Father, which, He said, you have heard from Me;
For John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.

-8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria and to the end of the earth.

John 14:25-26
These things I have spoken to you while being present with you.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you All things, and bring to your remembrance All things that I said to you.

The Holy Spirit power imparted to ALL the apostles is miraculous knowledge.
They are not limited in there understanding.
Jesus promises they all will receive this ability.
Not just one but All.

John 16:13
However when He, the Spirit of truth come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you Things to Come.

Jesus apostles will be guided into ALL Truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Here is another passage where Jesus defines what saves,
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Water is mentioned again by Jesus to be in the Kingdom. No one is saved outside the kingdom.

Being born of water in John 3 is in reference to being born again by the Communicated Word of God (i.e. This would be by receiving the words of Scripture or the Bible).

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Ephesians 5:25-27
“…even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Sorry, I don't buy the limited understanding argument or stuck in Judaism.

In Galatians 2, Paul tells us he confronted to his face and Peter was to be blamed because he say that Peter, and others like Barnabas were not walking according the truth of the gospel. For we read in Galatians 2:11-14:

Source:
Galatians 2 KJV

In Acts chapter 21, when Paul arrived in Jerusalem, he made the mistake of going back to the Old Law by being convinced by the other Jewish Christian elders to go through with an Old Testament Purification rite that involved animal sacrifices.

Here it is in the King James Bible:

Source:
Acts 21 KJV

Here it is in the New Living Translation:

Source:
Acts 21 NLT

So the apostles were not perfect. The Acts of the Apostles is an account of their lives and it includes even their mistakes.

Sir, either Peter was baptized by the Holy Spirit and given all miraculous knowledge or he wasn't given what the scriptures teach.

But if this is so, then the incident in Galatians 2 with the apostle Paul should not have happened. Furthermore, Peter did not know that the Gentiles were included into God’s program UNTIL God gave Peter a vision (involving the Gentiles) and God had Peter go to Cornelius’ house to preach there. Peter then learned that the Gentiles were accepted into God’s program. Peter did not know this before until the event happened.

But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you All things, and bring to your remembrance All things that I said to you.

John 16:13
However when He, the Spirit of truth come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you Things to Come.

This would be in God’s timing for His apostles to know truth, and not an instantaneous Matrix download of having super knowledge whereby they could never make mistakes or never learn anything new from God.

 

[Titus]

Being born of water in John 3 is in reference to being born again by the Communicated Word of God (i.e. This would be by receiving the words of Scripture or the Bible).

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Ephesians 5:25-27
“…even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Being born of water in John 3 is in reference to being born again by the Communicated Word of God (i.e. This would be by receiving the words of Scripture or the Bible).

1 Peter 1:23-25
“Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.”

Ephesians 5:25-27
“…even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”

Ephesians 5:26 says Christ sanctifies His church with the washing of water. By the word is referring to the gospel.
The word water is specific. It is not figurative. It literally is water that cleanses the body, which is the church.

We hear the gospel. Then we are sanctified by the washing away of our sins, just as Paul did, Acts 22:16. In water.

Just as is taught about the church/body in 1Corinthians 12:13 it reads,
1Corinthians 12:13:
For by one Spirit= Ephesians 5:25-27 by the word.

We were all baptized = Ephesians 5:25-27 sanctify and cleanse it with washing of water

Into one body= Ephesians 5:25-27 sanctify and cleanse it (it being the church)

Into one Spirit = Ephesians 5:25-27 by the word

These verses show parallelism.

Both are teaching about the church which is the body, Ephesians 1:22-23

Both are teaching we are taught by the Spirit which revealed the word, 1Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 5:26

Both are referring to the cleansing of the body/church by baptism in 1Corinthians 12:13 and water in Ephesians 5:26.

Other verses that show parallelism to washing, cleansing water, the church/body.

Titus 3:5
...He saved us(body/church) through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Joly Spirit.

John 3:5
Jesus answered and said to him,
Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom(church) of God.

The word AND in John 3:5 shows that water and of Spirit are not the same but two separate meanings.
The word AND in John 3:5 is a connective conjunction not an adverb.
It should therefore be translated as and not even.

Water is reference to the baptism in 1Corinthians 12:13 ; Ephesians 5:26 ; Titus 3:5 , etc.
And the Spirit is reference to the word that was delivered through the Holy Spirit baptism.

Again 1Corinthians 12:13 refers to "by one Spirit"
And Ephesians 5:26 says "by the word"

So, water refers to the baptism that puts us into the body/ Kingdom which is His church.
All this is made possible by hearing the word/gospel which is delieved by the Spirit.

John 3:5 and Ephesians 5:26 are both teaching we are water baptized thereby sanctified by wate immersion. And this is how we get into the kingdom which is the church.

To prove this further.

Look at a conversion in Jesus' new testament, covenant.
Paul taught in Jesus' gospel there is only one baptism, Ephesians 4:5
We must determine which baptism is it?
Holy Spirit baptism or water baptism?

There cannot be two in Jesus' gospel says Paul, Ephesians 4:5.

Acts 8:38
So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Phillip and the Eunuch went down into the water and he baptized him.

The Ethiopian Eunch was water baptized into Christ. That was his conversion in the new covenant not the old Mosaical law.
Now, to follow basic Bible principles. We must infer that other baptisms in the name of Jesus Christ are water also.

Otherwise we are not being consistent with what we have already observed to be water baptism.

More examples:

Acts 2:38 is not Holy Spirit baptism for they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit after they are water baptized.

The conversion of Cornelius, same commanded baptism is water,
Acts 10:47-48.

Not once will you ever find Holy Spirit baptism a command!
It is not commanded but promised.

Only water immersion is commanded by Jesus in His gospel,

Matthew 28:19
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you...

We know Jesus is teaching Water immersion because He commands His disciples to do the baptizing.
Only men water baptize other men! No disciple(man) Holy Spirit baptizes another man.

Same with Jesus' gospel in Mark 16:15-16. This is being consistent, also when it is taught once it must be inferred in other passages that speak of Jesus' baptism in His gospel.

More proof the baptism in Jesus' gospel that is commanded is water immersion.
Acts 19:1-7 Paul baptizes the Ephesians in water. Then later he lays hands on them to receive gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Gifts or a gift of the Holy Spirit, Acts 2:38. Is not Holy Spirit baptism. They are seperate.

Conclusion: Mark 16:15-16 is mistaken by some as Holy Spirit baptism.
It cannot be for the reasons I have stated.

Write or email a Greek scholar. Do you have any friends that are Greek scholars?
You ask them what baptism is in Mark 16:15-16.
Matthew 28:19
Acts 22:16
Acts 10:47-48
Acts 16:33 etc.
1Corinthians 12:13


These conversions to Christ were all the same Greek word baptizo.
That Greek word is only used for water immersion never any other kind of baptism.

 

[Titus]

In Galatians 2, Paul tells us he confronted to his face and Peter was to be blamed because he say that Peter, and others like Barnabas were not walking according the truth of the gospel. For we read in Galatians 2:11-14:

Source:
Galatians 2 KJV

In Acts chapter 21, when Paul arrived in Jerusalem, he made the mistake of going back to the Old Law by being convinced by the other Jewish Christian elders to go through with an Old Testament Purification rite that involved animal sacrifices.

Here it is in the King James Bible:

Source:
Acts 21 KJV

Here it is in the New Living Translation:

Source:
Acts 21 NLT

So the apostles were not perfect. The Acts of the Apostles is an account of their lives and it includes even their mistakes.



But if this is so, then the incident in Galatians 2 with the apostle Paul should not have happened. Furthermore, Peter did not know that the Gentiles were included into God’s program UNTIL God gave Peter a vision (involving the Gentiles) and God had Peter go to Cornelius’ house to preach there. Peter then learned that the Gentiles were accepted into God’s program. Peter did not know this before until the event happened.



This would be in God’s timing for His apostles to know truth, and not an instantaneous Matrix download of having super knowledge whereby they could never make mistakes or never learn anything new from God.

Galatians 2:11-14 Peter was under the authority of the Holy Spirit that he received through his Holy Spirit baptism in Acts 2.

The error you are making is assuming that Holy Spirit baptism keeps an apostle from willful sins.
It does not control their will.
Peter as all the apostles can go against the Spirit.
That is all that occurred with Peter,in Galatians 2:11-15.
Peter knew he was doing wrong. He went against God! Just as any man does from time to time.

This does not prove Peter was ignorant of the Lords will as you claim.

Paul made no mistake as you claim in Acts 21.

He knew what he was doing because the Holy Spirit was guiding him into ALL TRUTH.

Paul in fact kept the law of Moses for all the right reasons.
Not out of ignorance as you claim but for the reason of spreading the gospel to his Jewish brethren.

You are aware that Paul had to teach Jews in the temple?
Jewish law does not allow anyone to go into the temple without doing Jewish rituals in their law.

That is why Paul did these Acts from the old law.
He knew exactly what he was doing,
Acts 21: 26
Then Paul took the men and the next day, having been purified with them, entered the temple to announce the expiration of the days of purification, at time an offering should be made for each one of them.

Paul knowing that it was not sin for him not to keep the Jewish law.
Went along with Jewish customs as to not offend the jews.
If he had offended the Jews. He could have never convinced the Jews that he was a servant of God.

If you go into a Muslim mosque to teach others the gospel.
And the rules of the mosque are that you must be cleaned in some Muslim tradition.
Are you going to refuse or are you going to go along with customs to teach the gospel.

It's very important to note. Paul would refuse certain Jewish customs if it violated his obedience to Jesus' new law. Paul would not take part in any custom that would be sinfull under the new covenant.

You are correct that Peter and the rest of the apostles were not revealed by the Holy Spirit in Acts 2.
The salvation that would soon be given to the gentiles.

But it is of no consequence.

Because when it was time for Cornelius to be the example that God has granted repentance to the gentiles, only then was it necessary for Peter to know this.

Before, You have to remember they were only teaching jews.
Was Peter teaching error because he did not know about the gentiles yet?
No, and once he did learn through God that the gentiles were to be preached the gospel he did not error in his teaching.

Botton line,
Not one apostle ever taught error when teaching the gospel. Never happened.
When Peter commits his sin in Galatians he was not teaching the gospel.
They never taught anything out of ignorance.
Every thing Peter taught while preaching the gospel was Inspired and inerrant.
Same is true of all the apostles teaching of the gospel.

 

[Titus]

Peter was not ignorant in water baptizing the first gentile convert Cornelius.
It was the true gospel coming directly from God.
Paul while preaching the same gospel water baptized some of the Corinthian church.
Read 1Corinthians 1.

Paul said he water baptized Crispus and Gaius
Paul also said he water baptized the household of Stephanas.
That was not done out of ignorance but through the miraculous knowledge of the Holy Spirit that guided him into ALL Truth.