James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

[Christ4Me]

You do know that James was referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide, right?

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

That is the faith James was referring to that requires works; as in leading by example; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James was rebuking the church for sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting their immediate needs of those poor that were about to perish from the element and starvation from the bounty collected at church service. It is the church's faith in God to provide being issued to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor, seeing the church's faith is dead without leading by example.

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the church nor man is not justified nor righteous when sharing faith in God to provide to the poor if the church nor that believer cares to lead by example to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor with what God had provided for them.

It is the church's faith in God to provide that is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide to the poor, will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements or starvation when the church does not care to lead by example.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if needing works, because James was rebuking the church for getting out of helping the poor by callously sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were perishing.

Paul testifies to faith in Jesus Christ in salvation which is without works for why believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the Good News for man.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

James 2, James was writing to those who were ALREADY Christians ("my brethren") and admonishing them, giving them a warning/heeding about losing their salvation by a false TYPE of faith...

James 2:14
"What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?"

The present tense of the verse shows a man who continues to say he has faith but continues to not have works can that faith save him? Obviously no.

James knows faith can save but in this verse James is speaking about "THAT faith" a particular TYPE of faith that does not save. The NLT renders it 'Can that kind of faith save anyone?'

That kind or type of faith in this verse that cannot save is a faith that is continually void of obedience to God's will. That TYPE of faith cannot save anyone, it cannot save the sinner alienated from God nor can it keep saved the one who already is a Christian. James is warning those Christians to keep from having that KIND or TYPE of faith. The TYPE or KIND of faith that does save is a faith that includes obedience to God's will. James echos Christ's words...

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21
"What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?" James 2:14

There is a polar opposite difference between "saying" and "doing" and the TYPE of faith that just "says" yet void of "DOING" cannot save. James 2:14 therefore being saved or not depends totally on one having both an ongoing, sustained faith AND obedient works in doing God's will.

 

[Christ4Me]

James 2, James was writing to those who were ALREADY Christians ("my brethren") and admonishing them, giving them a warning/heeding about losing their salvation by a false TYPE of faith...

James 2:14
"What doth it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but have not works? can that faith save him?"

James knows faith can save but in this verse James is speaking about "THAT faith" a particular TYPE of faith that does not save. The NLT renders it 'Can that kind of faith save anyone?

So you should discern by Him that particular kind of faith is in regards to the church's giving a blessing about God providing for the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor, thus failing to lead by example in the eyes of the poor. It is the church's faith in God to provide for the poor that was not profiting the poor nor saving the poor in the ace of starvation and perishing from the elements for why that church's faith was dead and was not going to profit nor save the poor at all.

Context is key.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

 

[Episkopos]

You do know that James was referring to Abraham's faith in God to provide, right?

Genesis 22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering? 8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. 14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the Lord it shall be seen.

That is the faith James was referring to that requires works; as in leading by example; not faith in Jesus Christ for salvation which is without works.

James was rebuking the church for sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting their immediate needs of those poor that were about to perish from the element and starvation from the bounty collected at church service. It is the church's faith in God to provide being issued to the poor that will not profit the poor nor save the poor, seeing the church's faith is dead without leading by example.

It is understandable for why many read James verses out of context thinking it applies also to the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation, but no. When reading verse 14, one should do so in context.

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

So the church nor man is not justified nor righteous when sharing faith in God to provide to the poor if the church nor that believer cares to lead by example to the poor by meeting the immediate needs of the poor with what God had provided for them.

It is the church's faith in God to provide that is dead in the eyes of the poor for why the church's faith in God to provide to the poor, will not profit the poor nor save the poor from the elements or starvation when the church does not care to lead by example.

James was never talking about the faith in Jesus Christ for salvation as if needing works, because James was rebuking the church for getting out of helping the poor by callously sharing their faith in God to provide to the poor without meeting the immediate needs of the poor that were perishing.

Paul testifies to faith in Jesus Christ in salvation which is without works for why believing in Jesus Christ for salvation is the Good News for man.

Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Romans 4:1What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Yes. God's righteousness is built upon man's righteousness. God will never build on unrighteousness. Human righteousness is like a ground floor, and God's righteousness is like the second floor...or "upper room" built upon it. So then holiness is built upon righteousness.

Without this understanding the church becomes unrighteous and lawless. Today, modern believers can no longer endure sound doctrine.

Righteous is as righteous does.

The gift of God's holiness is for them that pay the price to enter into Christ for the full measure of grace that overcomes sin, the devil and the world.

 

[Christ4Me]

Yes. God's righteousness is built upon man's righteousness.

I do not see it that way since man's righteousness are filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If you are referring to our believing in Him, that is the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I dare say our believing in Him is the work of the Father so there is really nothing from us that is man's righteousness as He draws us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us in order to give us to the Son to save us.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Thanks for sharing, brother.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Faith without obedience works does not save. In the context, Christians' whose faith becomes dead, being void of obedient works, cannot save the Christian...Matthew 25:41-46; John 15:2; Matthew 7:21.

 

[Episkopos]

I do not see it that way since man's righteousness are filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If you are referring to our believing in Him, that is the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I dare say our believing in Him is the work of the Father so there is really nothing from us that is man's righteousness as He draws us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us in order to give us to the Son to save us.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Thanks for sharing, brother.

You are not seeing that righteousness is on 2 separate levels. Why do we need to repent before we are justified? Because repentance is necessary for righteousness. This is not God's righteousness..it is our own. Unless OUR righteousness is greater than the hypocrites....we cannot enter into the kingdom. Why? Because God's righteousness is built on our own. It is built on humility, honesty and the fear of the Lord. The filthy rags is when we try going it alone without God's covering righteousness.

Imagine a bottom floor that is open to the elements. Without the second storey with the roof (covering) attached to it, we get rained on. But with the covering we remain dry...without spot or wrinkle.

Be careful to not think the truth is so one-sided. Eternal wisdom has two sides...or two levels. Ours and God's. We are to work WITH God. That is what relationship is all about. Otherwise those who are saved could not be judged by their works...which they most assuredly will be.

Do more seeking. You are getting some things right....keep going! <><

Peace

 

[Keiw]

I do not see it that way since man's righteousness are filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

If you are referring to our believing in Him, that is the righteousness of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

I dare say our believing in Him is the work of the Father so there is really nothing from us that is man's righteousness as He draws us unto the Son to reveal His Son to us in order to give us to the Son to save us.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. 26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. 27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

1 Corinthians 1:29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Thanks for sharing, brother.

Matt 7:22-23 is judgement scenario--These believe. It was not good enough. Any who practice a sin( work iniquity) is not covered-Hebrews 10:26

 

[Episkopos]

What price do you pay?

Much love!

Everything...all! Listen to the teachings of Jesus concerning His kingdom. Most modern believers know nothing of the kingdom walk...because they are still on the carnal level....doing their level best...always learning but never coming to the fulness of the truth.

Why do people hide behind Paul ( through misunderstanding) rather than coming to the light of the truth in Jesus' words? Find the answer to that and find the answer to why the church is so anemic and superficial.

 

[marks]

I do not see it that way since man's righteousness are filthy rags.

Man's righteousness, filthy rags, but still accepted by God, sins overlooked, Until Christ.

After that, mingling "man's righteousness" with the righteousness of God that is by faith is failure to rightly divide, mixing old and new.

Much love!

 

[Keiw]

Everything...all! Listen to the teachings of Jesus concerning His kingdom. Most modern believers know nothing of the kingdom walk...because they are still on the carnal level....doing their level best...always learning but never coming to the fulness of the truth.

Why do people hide behind Paul ( through misunderstanding) rather than coming to the light of the truth in Jesus' words? Find the answer to that and find the answer to why the church is so anemic and superficial.

Paul taught truth. Jesus commissioned him. Yes i agree-Few know what Jesus actually taught.

 

[marks]

Everything...all!

I'm sorry, not quick enough! That's why I deleted the post. The answer is obvious and unexplanatory.

Of course we pay with all. But that doesn't address the differences between different people's understandings.

Much love!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

James most certainly was talk about salvation.

He asked a select group of people who had faith and had no works, if their claimed faith could save them

That salvation he spoke of was eternal salvation

 

[Episkopos]

Man's righteousness, filthy rags, but still accepted by God, sins overlooked, Until Christ.

After that, mingling "man's righteousness" with the righteousness of God that is by faith is failure to rightly divide, mixing old and new.

Much love!

Not so. The wine is grace in the new heart (tender). The old wineskin (hard) is the heart under the law of Moses.

Again so much confusion between being obedient to God (frowned upon by many) and following the Mosaic laws contained in Judaism.

let not many be teachers...

 

[Titus]

Faith without obedience works does not save. In the context, Christians' whose faith becomes dead, being void of obedient works, cannot save the Christian...Matthew 25:41-46; John 15:2; Matthew 7:21.

Friend, I have not been able to get access to this website since last saturday.
Finally one hour ago I was able to log on to christianity boards.com.
Have you had any difficulty with this website recently?

 

[marks]

Unless OUR righteousness is greater than the hypocrites

Not the hypocrits, the pharisees, though God called them hypocrits. Look at Paul, whom you seem to have some issues with, who declared his righteousness of the law, he declared himself blameless, and counted it manure.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Not so. The wine is grace in the new heart (tender).

The new wine is the new covenant, if you try to fit it into the old, both are ruined.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Again so much confusion between being obedient to God

I'd disagree with you there, too. What's not to understand that we are to obey God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

let not many be teachers...

This is sound warning for us all, wouldn't you agree?

Much love!

 

[Bob Carabbio]

James Was Not Talking about Faith in Jesus Christ for Salvation

Not specically. but what He WAS talking about was what IS FAITH, and what isn't "FAITH" at all (dead faith).

The faith that SAVES, and the faith that moves mountains is the same thing - only a different application.

Faith is Faith there's only ONE FAITH the meets the criteria in Heb 11:1. It's SOURCE is Rom 10:17, and it's application can be found in Mark 11:22-24.

James is essentially a "Litmus test" whereby one can determine whether what they "CALL FAITH" actually IS REAL Biblical Faith, or nothing more than "Belief" (mental assent) associated with some sort of "Religious activity".

A good deal of what religious folks CALL "FAITH" - isn't "Faith" at all.