For those who think Christ is not God.

[Robert Gwin]

Robert..it almost sounds like.."Did God say...?"
I have shown you numerous scriptures that Christ is God and in NO way inferior to the Father.
There's a humanistic view and approach to the Scriptures which don't sit well with me.


Job_5:9 Which doeth great things and unsearchable; marvelous things without number:

Job_36:26 Behold, God is great, and we know him not; the number of his years is unsearchable.

Psa_145:3 Great is the LORD, and highly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable.

Pro_25:3 The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings is unsearchable.

Rom_11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out!

Eph_3:8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, was this grace given, to preach unto the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

We must become less, that our great God and Savior may receive the highest eulogy and...


Rom_14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, to me every knee shall bow, And every tongue shall confess to God.

Php_2:10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven and things on earth and things under the earth,..

No room for intellectual boasting friend, it is all Mashiach and none of self, or all of self and none of Christ, no one foot in the basileia and the other in the kosmos.
There are many members in the body, and each member has his/her own gift given to us from..


1Co 12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of the body, being many, are one body; so also is Christ.
1Co 12:13 For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.
1Co 12:14 For the body is not one member, but many.
1Co 12:15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.
1Co 12:16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not of the body; it is not therefore not of the body.
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
1Co 12:18 But now hath God set the members each one of them in the body, even as it pleased him.
1Co 12:19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
1Co 12:20 But now they are many members, but one body.
1Co 12:21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, I have no need of thee: or again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
1Co 12:22 Nay, much rather, those members of the body which seem to be more feeble are necessary:
1Co 12:23 and those parts of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness;
1Co 12:24 whereas our comely parts have no need: but God tempered the body together, giving more abundant honour to that part which lacked;
1Co 12:25 that there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another.
1Co 12:26 And whether one member suffereth, all the members suffer with it; or one member is honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
1Co 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and severally members thereof.
1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, divers kinds of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 But desire earnestly the greater gifts. And a still more excellent way shew I unto you.

What is the more excellent hodos?
J.

No Joe you haven't, Jesus is not God, rather as the Bible says is God's son, begotten from Jehovah Himself. You have to know God to survive the upcoming tribulation and return of Jesus. Remember the Bible does not contradict itself, if it says Jesus is God, you had better research why that version said it and the accuracy. It puzzles me immensely why anyone thinks Jesus is God, but I can say, satan is very good at what he does.

You and I realize that you have been taught this, but it is not a Bible teaching, Jesus stated very clearly at Mat 4:10 which I have discussed with you before, that it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and to Him alone render sacred service. Why do you find fault with that sir?

 

[Truther]

No Joe you haven't, Jesus is not God, rather as the Bible says is God's son, begotten from Jehovah Himself. You have to know God to survive the upcoming tribulation and return of Jesus. Remember the Bible does not contradict itself, if it says Jesus is God, you had better research why that version said it and the accuracy. It puzzles me immensely why anyone thinks Jesus is God, but I can say, satan is very good at what he does.

You and I realize that you have been taught this, but it is not a Bible teaching, Jesus stated very clearly at Mat 4:10 which I have discussed with you before, that it is Jehovah your God you must worship, and to Him alone render sacred service. Why do you find fault with that sir?

28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed...


Do you agree with Thomas or do you doubt him?

 

[Johann]

I even tested Thomas' statement on JW's and they refused to read it.

@Truther thank you for this information, I had to Google (something which I don't like) what is Unitarianism.

Unitarianism rejects the mainstream Christian doctrine of the Trinity, or three Persons in one God, made up of Father, Son and Holy Spirit. They typically believe that God is one being - God the Father, or Mother. Jesus was simply a man, not the incarnate deity.

God bless.
J.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Suggest you prayerfully read this and lean not to your own understanding...

SPECIAL TOPIC: THE TRINITY

Notice the activity of all three Persons of the Trinity in unified contexts. The term "trinity," first coined by Tertullian, is not a biblical word, but the concept is pervasive.

In the NT
the Gospels
Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19 (and parallels)
John 14:26
Acts — Acts 2:32-33, 38-39
Paul
Rom. 1:4-5; 5:1,5; 8:1-4,8-10
1 Cor. 2:8-10; 12:4-6
2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14
Gal. 4:4-6
Eph. 1:3-14,17; 2:18; 3:14-17; 4:4-6
1 Thess. 1:2-5
2 Thess. 2:13
Titus 3:4-6
Peter — 1 Pet. 1:2
Jude — vv. 20-21

A plurality in God is hinted at in the OT.
Use of PLURALS for God
Name Elohim is PLURAL (see SPECIAL TOPIC: NAMES FOR DEITY), but when used of God always has a SINGULAR VERB
"Us" in Genesis 1:26-27; 3:22; 11:7
"One" in the Shema (BDB 1033) of Deut. 6:4 can be PLURAL (as it is in Gen. 2:24; Ezek. 37:17)
"The Angel of the Lord" (see SPECIAL TOPIC: THE ANGEL OF THE LORD) was a visible representative of Deity
Genesis 16:7-13; 22:11-15; 31:11,13; 48:15-16
Exodus 3:2,4; 13:21; 14:19
Judges 2:1; 6:22-23; 13:3-22
Zechariah 3:1-2
God and His Spirit are separate, Gen. 1:1-2; Ps. 104:30; Isa. 63:9-11; Ezek. 37:13-14
God (YHWH) and Messiah (Adon) are separate, Ps. 45:6-7; 110:1; Zech. 2:8-11; 10:9-12
The Messiah and the Spirit are separate, Zech. 12:10
All three are mentioned in Isa. 48:16; 61:1

The Deity of Jesus and the personality of the Spirit caused problems for the strict, monotheistic (see SPECIAL TOPIC: MONOTHEISM), early believers.
Tertullian — subordinated the Son to the Father
Origen — subordinated the divine essence of the Son and the Spirit
Arius — denied Deity to the Son and Spirit
Monarchianism — believed in a successive chronological manifestation of the one God as Father, then Son, and then Spirit

The Trinity is a historically developed formulation informed by the biblical material.
the full Deity of Jesus, equal to the Father, was affirmed in A.D. 325 by the Council of Nicea (cf. John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Titus 2:13)
the full personality and Deity of the Spirit equal to the Father and Son was affirmed in A.D. 381 by the Council of Constantinople
the doctrine of the Trinity is fully expressed in Augustine's work De Trinitate
There is truly mystery here. But the NT affirms one divine essence (monotheism) with three eternal personal manifestations (Father, Son, and Spirit).
Dr. Utley

Don't "slam-dunk" me because of the source, since I am always looking for resources and live in South Africa with no in-depth study tools available here.
I just hope @marks is not going to rap me over the knuckles.
But all in all, a good and helpful source and hope it will help you.
J.

You simply cannot argue with Scripture Joe, Jesus is #2, that is what the Bible says as I have shown you. Accept it or reject it, your choice. I do recommend you obey Jesus' command however, as your life is dependent upon obedience to the gospel. 2 Thes 1:8

 

[Pearl]

I even tested Thomas' statement on JW's and they refused to read it.

This is weird.

I read that verse to a JW who said it was like saying OMG.

 

[Truther]

I read that verse to a JW who said it was like saying OMG.

Isn't that bizarre?

The Unitarian does the same thing.

In both cases, instead of reading the verse, which I insisted they do, they demonstrably said "Jesus is not God".

I asked them in both cases, "do you doubt Thomas"?

We all laughed together

 

[Wrangler]

To know Christ as God, to know Him as man, to know Him as God-man,
and this by a divine revelation of His person

Say you. But again, Not an answer to my question.

Where is the verse that makes believing the trinity, which violates the 1C, a condition of salvation?

 

[Wrangler]

I read that verse to a JW who said it was like saying OMG.

Yea, when I drop my toast butter side down, I am not actually stating it is feces but an exclamatory statement in hte heat of the moment.

That such text is the best you got shows how weak Scriptural support is for your doctrine. Just admit that there is no trinitarian verse like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.

 

[Truther]

The question of the day is this…

How is Jesus , whom has a God right now in heaven, our God?

 

[Pearl]

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33, emphasis added). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” This is a reference back to Exodus 3:14 when God revealed Himself as the “I AM.” The Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).

 

[Pearl]

Is Jesus God? — His followers declared Him to be God.

John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God.

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, “But about the Son He says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.’” The Father refers to Jesus as God, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.

In Revelation, an angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9, 17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation did. Beyond these, there are many other passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus being God.

 

[Pearl]

Is Jesus God? — The reason Jesus must be God.

The most important reason that Jesus must be God is that, if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world (1 John 2:2). A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

FOR FURTHER STUDY
God the Son Incarnate: The Doctrine of Christ by Stephen Wellum

 

[Johann]

Do you agree with Thomas or do you doubt him?

Jesus reiterates God on various occasions. Jesus is “I Am.” Jesus was saying He was the eternal God incarnate. Such a statement was blasphemy to the Jews. Jesus says that those who reject Him as God incarnate will die in their sins.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.”

J.

 

[Truther]

God had to die for our sins or could He create another human, individual of a replacement for the 1st Adam that made us sinful?

 

[Truther]

Jesus reiterates God on various occasions. Jesus is “I Am.” Jesus was saying He was the eternal God incarnate. Such a statement was blasphemy to the Jews. Jesus says that those who reject Him as God incarnate will die in their sins.

Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I am has sent me to you.”

J.

Did you know that the I AM was inside Jesus, speaking THROUGH Jesus when he said that?

 

[Johann]

Is Jesus God? Yes. Jesus declared Himself to be God. His followers believed Him to be God. The provision of salvation only works if Jesus is God. Jesus is God incarnate, the eternal Alpha and Omega (Revelation 1:8; 22:13), and God our Savior (2 Peter 1:1).

Well done
J.

 

[Johann]

Did you know that the I AM was inside Jesus, speaking THROUGH Jesus when he said that?

Three in Person yet echad.
J.

 

[Johann]

You and I realize that you have been taught this, but it is not a Bible teaching, Jesus stated very clearly at Mat 4:10

Sorry to say this, as a JW" witness you would concur with them.
Jesus the Christ is God.
J.

 

[Johann]

You simply cannot argue with Scripture Joe,

I know in Whom I have entrusted myself, you don't Robert.
J.

 

[Wrangler]

Is Jesus God? — Jesus claimed to be God.

Take for example the words of Jesus in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.”

How do you reconcile your claim that Jesus is God with Jesus’ own explicit statements that he has a God (John 20:17), and Jesus’ God is the only true God (John 17:3) and in John 8:54 ‘If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing?’

Being one with another is an expression used today to mean we are on the same page. There is a verse where Jesus prays to God that we are one, like he and God are one. Does that make us God also?