Take My yoke upon you, Learn of me…

[VictoryinJesus]

Avoid worldly [and] empty chatter,
For it will lead to further ungodliness:

the kjv has “for they will increase Unto more ungodliness”

and their talk (striving about words…wranglers of words which are useless (and leads) to the ruin (death) of the hearers. (For they increase unto more ungodliness) for it will lead to further ruin and death of the hearers …their talk will spread like gangrene.
Consider the brashness of what gangrene does to the body? It spreads like a rot of death. ‘Among them are hymenaeus and Philetus, men who have gone astray from the truth saying the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset (overturn) the faith of some …wranglers, striving of empty vain ganglings which leads to the ruin of the hearers, which leads to further ungodliness.

really consider what they are claiming while saying the resurrection has already taken place. Are they claiming to be in the light? Are they claiming they will not be ashamed while leading to further ungodliness…like gangrene which is spread Throughout and within a body, being servants of sin unto death. in the presence of God their words are useless and empty and leads to the ruin (death) of the hearers. While claiming the resurrection has already taken place…yet in darkness still, not seeing where they are going and the end there where they lead, is destruction and death.

Are those who occupy themselves with empty words—causing ruin of those who hear—accurately handling the word of truth? Especially in saying obedience resulting in righteousness and sanctification has already taken place…while whose servants are they?

Romans 6:17-23 Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone [as] slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey

Either of sin resulting in death
Or of obedience resulting in righteousness?

but thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching (take My yoke upon you, learn of Me) to which you were committed, having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. (Romans 6:19)

For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What benefit were you having from the ruin (The Death and destruction of those who heard? but the gift God has been given not for your destruction but instead for your edification) what benefit were you having from the things you are now ashamed? (Think of Stephen who was stoned) For the outcome of those things is death. (Ruin) Romans 6:20-21​

continued..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

2 Timothy 2:15-19

Nevertheless the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal “the Lord knows those who are His.” Let everyone who names the name of the Lord abstain from wickedness.


Nahum 1:7 The Lord is good, a strong hold in the day of trouble; and he knows them that trust in him.

continued…

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But avoid empty worldly [and] empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness

their talk like gangrene will spread

men who have gone astray (as all have gone astray) from the truth

they say the resurrection has already come
‘On the other hand, I am writing a new command to you,
Which is TRUE in Him and in you, (consider Him in you and you in Him), because the darkness is passing away —that is what gangrene that is spread does, it eats and destroys and passes away—and the TRUE light is already shining.

that does sound similar to what those men gone astray among them Hymenaeus and Philetus claimed in saying “the resurrection has already taken place.” Are they claiming “the TRUE light is already shining.”

The one who says “I am in the light” and yet hates his brother (ruining him) is in darkness until now.

John 15:21-25 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me. [22] If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. [23] He that hateth me hateth my Father also. [24] If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. [25] But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.​

1 Peter 2:15-16 For so is the will of God, that with well doing you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: [16] As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.​

1 Thessalonians 2:3-8 For our exhortation was not of deceit, nor of uncleanness, nor in guile: [4] But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. [5] For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: [6] Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. [7] But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children: [8] So being affectionately desirous of you, we were willing to have imparted unto you, not the gospel of God only, but also our own souls, because ye were dear unto us.​

The one who loves his brother abides in the light and there is no cause for stumbling in him. He who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, not knowing where he is going because that darkness has blinded him…not knowing gangrene ruins and the wages of sin is death. Not knowing emptiness you occupied yourself in, which fruit you are now ashamed of, when the darkness passes and a light does shine… the end of those things is death. What fruit did you have in those things you are now ashamed of?

 

[Ziggy]

I was listening to Washington Journal on C-Span this morning.
Open Forum, where people can call in and discuss whatever is on their minds.
What sounded like a young man started atacking the Bible.
He called it a fairy tale, a fiction, talking about Jesus walking on water.
He sounded very angry.
Another gentleman (sounding somewhat older) called in a couple calls later.
He tried to explain that what is written in the bible is meant to give people hope and courage.
He explained that when Jesus made criples walk, it didn't mean literally, it meant people that had given up had been given the faith and courage to stand up. When Jesus made the blind to see, it doesn't mean literal blind people. It means he showed people how to see the truth of what was going on around them.

The world is round. And everything travels in a circular motion. Although sometimes things can travel east to west or up and down.
The world still turns nevertheless.

Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

If Jesus says that this is true, and he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow,
then something went terribly wrong in the OT.
And if it had been allowed, would still be continuing today:
Consider the great division witnessed here between who would fashion this "new" church.

Act 15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
Act 15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.

Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
.
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

As far as the resurrection having already passed, who were the barers of that lost hope?

1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

When considering the resurrection under a spiritual candle, the truth is, the resurrection to life had passed these two men.
First they want to remain in control of who has power to apply the yoke.
Second when they see they have lost control, they begin to blaspheme God, and lead others away with them.
Thirdly they begin making mountains out of mole hills and spreading lies and hypocrisy, causing others to walk away also.

The Bible says ye shall know them by their fruit.
One must only taste to see which is sour and which is sweet.
But to some not all have the same tongue.
To some what is sweet is bitter, and to others what is bitter is sweet.

The young man who called in first, all he tasted was bitter.
The older gentleman who called after, all he tasted was sweet.
Even though they read the same pages,
One was given the gift of discernment and the other was not.
And it's up to the reader to determine, which one got what.

You will believe what your heart is inclined to believe.
Either faith which leads to life, or faithlessness which leads to death.

Mar 4:24 And he said unto them, Take heed what ye hear: with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you: and unto you that hear shall more be given.

Hugs

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Remind them of these things.
And solemnly charge [them] in the presence of God not to wrangle about words,
Which are useless (and leads) to the ruin of the hearers.
be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed(for what fruit did you have in those things you are now ashamed?), accurately handling the word of truth. (Not for the destruction of the hearers but for ‘your edification’; edification Of The body of Christ.

• 2 Corinthians 13:7-10 Now I pray to God that you do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that you should do that which is honest, though we be as reprobates. [8] For we can do nothing against the truth, but for the truth. [9] For we are glad, when we are weak, and you are strong(for His strength is made perfect in weakness) : and this also we wish, even your perfection. [10] Therefore I write these things being absent, lest being present I should use sharpness, according to the power which the Lord hath given me to edification, and not to destruction.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck

holding faith, and a good conscience…makes me think of “that you need not be ashamed”

For me that doesn’t mean never having a conscience of doing wrong but coming to a point Where recognizing those things lead to being ashamed and desire—a change of heart—to stop repeating what makes you ashamed.

What did they put away concerning Faith that shipwrecked Faith? Could it be tenderness of heart they put away, in hardening of the heart ? The hardening of the heart being that which shipwrecked Faith? You said if allowed to continue…how much tender consciousness is left to even care what we say or how we behave when speaking to another one here? Not even to mention out there in the world, but those claiming to love Jesus because He first loved us…how is our conscience doing…is our conscience untouched! Do we care if we ruin someone else as long as we are elevated in the process? Just questions…but I’m not sure what is meant by if allowed to continue?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

considering the resurrection under a spiritual candle, the truth is, the resurrection to life had passed these two men.
First they want to remain in control of who has power to apply the yoke.
Second when they see they have lost control, they begin to blaspheme God, and lead others away with them.
Thirdly they begin making mountains out of mole hills and spreading lies and hypocrisy, causing others to walk away also.

You said
“the resurrection to life had passed these two men”

that is not how I see it (not that I’m right because you also are convince you are right) but I’m only sharing why I don’t think
“the resurrection to life had passed these two” 1) God’s correction I don’t think is ever unfruitful. They were turned over to satan that they might learn not to blasphemy the name of the Lord. Why turn any over to satan that they might learn if the resurrection to life has passed by them already? If they remain in darkness… then has that light came and passes by? Yet turn them over, that they may learn. What Father doesn’t discipline his child? Second) there is a verse instructs to turn them over to their master, their father of lies. Does God turn them over to their father? Yet the father that doesn’t love his child won’t discipline his child. He who doesn’t discipline his child hates him. Isn’t that the point that they learn not to blasphemy God who is the good Father who corrects for His children profit?

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.​

• Luke 16:9 And I say unto you, Make to yourselves friends of the mammon of unrighteousness; that, when you fail, they may receive you into everlasting habitations.

What of God turned them over to a reprobate mind?rebellious children…fatherless. But personally I don’t think they are hopeless or that the resurrection has passed by them because God is patient for deliverance?

 

[Ziggy]

And if it had been allowed, would still be continuing today:
Consider the great division witnessed here between who would fashion this "new" church.

I was speaking to, under whose authority would this "new church" be controlled by?
The Pharisees who believed that we remain under Moses' law, Or Jesus Christ's who showed us a new way under Grace and Truth.

What did they put away concerning Faith that shipwrecked Faith?

I believe it says a good conscience.
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Do we care if we ruin someone else as long as we are elevated in the process?

I believe it should be our goal to elevate others before self.

Consider Jesus speaking with the Priests and Pharisees and Saducees.
Jesus knew that they had been leading the people in the wrong direction, away from God. Away from Mercy, Love, Kindness.
All they cared about was their tithes and offerings, which they put in the money box for their own pleasure.
These were self elevated rulers of the people.

Did Jesus care that he had to knock them down a peg or two to make them see the truth?
I'm sure he did. But he couldn't allow them to keep leading the sheep astray.
He gave them chances. He debated with them. Tried reasoning with them.
But in the end they were adamant in their own position of authority.

I believe we should all have the same care for each other.
We shouldn't attack each other with the sword of the Lord,
we're not at war with each other.
Yet we aught to be able to be grown up enough to sharpen each others sword.
Debate issues that lead towards the knowledge of God and His righteousness and not our own.

You got deep question @VictoryinJesus
And it's always good to really think on these things and reflect on how we can do better.

Much Love
Hugs

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Before I forget. The two who were turned over to satan that they might learn not to blaspheme God when considering that the father of lies doesn’t discipline his children or correct them … God turning untrained children over to the disorderly, Unruly, rebellious, unrestrained nature; is His
Discipline…that they may learn Which makes me Think of how while we were yet sinners He loved us and gave of Himself that while we were still sinners dead in our trespasses: disorderly. Unruled. Unrestrained. Rebellious. He is patient and long-suffering …Peter, satan is asking for you that he may sift you
as wheat. But I prayed your faith fails not. ?? “Father. Not that you take them out of the world but leave them in it.”??

 

[Ziggy]

They were turned over to satan that they might learn not to blasphemy the name of the Lord. Why turn any over to satan that they might learn if the resurrection to life has passed by them already?

So under whose authority was blaspheming punishable?
It was under the Law of Moses. And those that sat in Moses seat executed the law.
Basically, these two men were turned over to the High Priest and the Sanhedrin which prosecuted blasphemers.
I believe the hope was, that they would seek mercy. Yet under Moses law there was no mercy.
Not that there wasn't room for mercy in God's law. But those that sat in Moses' seat refused to use it.

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So the hope being that in their search for mercy, that would lead them to Christ.
And having turned to Christ would save their spirit. Even though their body was given over to those that would destroy it.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Alright, I'll change that to... the invitation to eternal life was getting farther away from them.
They would need to repent.
They were spreading the rumour that the resurrection had already passed, because they didn't experience being born again.
If they had been born again, they would not have been able to blasheme God.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

I believe the hope was there that they would have a change of heart.

Hugs

 

[farouk]

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Reminds me of the culture of Fundamentalism and its taboos and cultural peculiarities...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

So the hope being that in their search for mercy, that would lead them to Christ.
And having turned to Christ would save their spirit. Even though their body was given over to those that would destroy it.

I forgot
Orphans with the fatherless. Truly makes me think of those without a father to correct:
and out from that lack come disorder, unruled, disobedience. Back-biting. Murders. Hatred. Spite. Envy. Greed. Maybe God turning any over to this mind helps them come to terms with their need for the Father? Because does He visit the fatherless and orphans?

 

[farouk]

@VictoryinJesus Great verse there from Nahum; trust is indeed a key concept.

 

[Ziggy]

Maybe God turning any over to this mind helps them come to terms with their need for the Father? Because does He visit the fatherless and orphans?

Well, that's supposed to be part of the churches commission. To visit the orphans and the fatherless, so they can hear the word of God.

Hugs

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@VictoryinJesus Great verse there from Nahum; trust is indeed a key concept.

@farouk always encouraging others on here

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well, that's supposed to be part of the churches commission. To visit the orphans and the fatherless, so they can hear the word of God.

Hugs

makes me think of
Isaiah 40:26-31 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that brings out their host by number: he calls them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one fails. [27] Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speak, O Israel, My way is hid from the Lord, and my judgment is passed over from my God? [28] Have you not known? have you not heard, that the everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, faints not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. [29] He gives power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increases strength. [30] Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: [31] But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

going to clean up my house. Thank you for all of the insight you share across the board. You are a blessing to have on here and the board is fortunate to have you around.

 

[Enoch111]

He explained that when Jesus made criples walk, it didn't mean literally, it meant people that had given up had been given the faith and courage to stand up. When Jesus made the blind to see, it doesn't mean literal blind people. It means he showed people how to see the truth of what was going on around them.

He certainly did not help the situation by giving actual miracles an allegorical interpretation. And the title of this thread does not express what is actually being presented in the OP, nor in the other posts, nor in your post. So let's hear about the actual meaning of the title of this thread.

 

[Ziggy]

He certainly did not help the situation by giving actual miracles an allegorical interpretation. And the title of this thread does not express what is actually being presented in the OP, nor in the other posts, nor in your post. So let's hear about the actual meaning of the title of this thread.

Yes Boss o7
Hugs

 

[Enoch111]

Yes Boss o7
Hugs

That should be 007.
Which means that you are now under the gun to come up with an explanation for the title.

 

[Ziggy]

That should be 007.
Which means that you are now under the gun to come up with an explanation for the title.

I understood the title to mean..
learning what it means to be under the yoke of the Lord and not the world.
And how different people percieve the yoke itself.
What some find easy, others find very difficult.
And that was the reason for discussing the 2 different phone calls from two different perspectives.
I never said either of them were right or wrong, just that they both came to the same subject from different directions.
I went on to discuss how the Pharisees had tried to bring the new church unfer the same yoke of circumcision under Moses' law.
But that idea was cast out by the Apostles.
And then it just went whatever way it turned from there.

I was saluting you brother. 07
God Bless You
Hugs