OSAS Corruption of the Repentant Publican

[mailmandan]

James 2:17-24 KJV
17) Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18) Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19) Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20) But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21) Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22) Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23) And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24) Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Saving faith . . . or dead faith. God knows your state.

Show me . . . I will show you . . .

God knows whether He has justified you for your real saving faith. Others, you have to show them by your works.

Much love!

Yes and James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified is "dikaioo" #1344. In the context of James chapter 2.

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

 

[Taken]

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

This unrighteous sinning publican smites his breast in wretchedness, seeking mercy before the Lord, and walks away justified.

This means that he repented, was forgiven, and walked away to sin no more, even as the adulteress.

Utterly FALSE!
No it does not SAY or MEAN that man repented.
What it does say, is the Man Believes IN God.
What it does say, is the PRESUMPTION God “WILL” have mercy on him, and he is content with that.

OSAS however declares that he was justified for breast beating, not for repenting.

Utterly FALSE and height of Ignorance.
A Sav-ED man REPENTED and GAVE his LIFE unto Death FOR his required Sacrifice to RECEIVE the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation.

Your going on about the very ignorance of not KNOWING, Repentance and Death, comes BEFORE receiving Salvation...and not KNOWING, once a Life IS given IN DEATH for the Lord...
There is NO possibility OF coming back from that death, and RESUMING SIN against God.

What does it say about a church, where the greatest example to follow is a wretched double minded and bewailing breast beater, that does not repent?

How MANY TIMES, do you run to the CHURCH and beat your chest, asking the CHURCH to forgive you ....
Because Jesus’ forgiveness FAILED you?

The CHURCH IS “converted men”. I surely didn’t ASK “converted men”, to forgive my SIN AGAINST GOD! Nor does Scripture Teach that.

That is not the man in Scripture written with ink, who did repent to sin no more, but is the corrupted version and hero of the OSAS churches written in their own minds.

Well known YOU have ill feelings AGAINST men, who TEACH, A man giving HIS LIFE unto Death with Christ Jesus, IS Giving His LIFE unto Death FOR their Love of the Lord God...and ONCE a man GIVES His LIFE unto Death....”unlike your teaching”.....that man does not crawl back into the DEAD BODY beat his chest and PRETEND...”the Lords Salvation FAILED him”!

 

[Taken]

Yes and James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified is "dikaioo" #1344. In the context of James chapter 2.

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

James < — >faith without works, REQUIRES one to KNOW...
What is faith, How to HAVE faith.
What is works, How to DO works.

EXPRESSLY TO THE POINT:
* Faith —-> is a gift from God FOR Hearing His word. (Rom 10:17)
* Works —-> is the mans part OF Believing Gods word. (Jn 6:28-29)
* Service —-> is the mans part OF heart-FULLY Declaring to the Lord, his Belief. (Rom 12:1-2)
* Faith-FULLNESS is a gift from God FOR heart-FULLY Declaring to the Lord, his Belief.
* Works thereafter, is what other men can “observe”, exalting the Lord God, helping others without expectation of a compensation, kindness, compassions, etc.
* Works thereafter, is also DOING “right”, helping other, compassions, kindness......WHEN NO ONE is around to Observe....WHEN NO ONE brags about “how wonderful they are doing this and that”.
* Works thereafter, is DOING right...and GIVING God the Glory for your ability to DO a right works.


(A mans ability to help, give charity, give time, give money, give talent, to help/aid another...always, always, always...GLORIFIES GOD, when God is given the GLORY, the very credit, that ONE was ABLE to help another. )

Have you ever been grocery shopping and seen a person noticeably outward meager means, or elderly, scouring every price label, trying to figure if they can afford, little rug rat kids hungry and whining....and struck up a conversation about their children, about elderly concerns, about prices and offer to pay for something BECAUSE the Lord has blessed you to bless them?
So MANY ideas, ways, to touch the lives of complete strangers and Give God the Glory. Amen?

And BTW, rug rat kids is not derogatory, but merely a reference to kids that are kids, rather than a make up china doll.

 

[robert derrick]

But in all actuality, justification is by faith alone.

James speaks of works justifying us, but I ask you, justified to whom? When God has already justified us by faith, the works justify us to men.

Your teaching of James 2 is that works of faith is only for justification with man, not with Christ.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

1. You change Scripture to do it:

Ye seen then how that by works a man is justified with man alone, and by faith only with Christ.

You add to and take away from the Scripture, in order to teach your doctrine of salvation and justification with God, by faith only and not by works at all.

2. You are teaching the context of James 2 has nothing to do with being saved and justified by Christ:

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

The entire context of James 2 is being saved by faith and justified by works, and there is not one without the other.

Are you now going to change James 2:14, and say it has nothing to do with being saved, as well as change James 2:22, by saying it has nothing to do with being justified with Christ?

 

[robert derrick]

Utterly FALSE!
No it does not SAY or MEAN that man repented.

True.

One would need read repentance into Luke 18 to teach it.

What it does say, is the Man Believes IN God.

No true.

One would need read believing into Luke 18 to teach it.

What it does say, is the PRESUMPTION God “WILL” have mercy on him, and he is content with that.

Not true again.

Once would need to read presumption, will, and contented into Luke 18 to teach it.

What Scriptures does say is a publican said with his mouth that he was a sinner and asked from mercy from the Lord, and Jesus declared he was justified by doing so.

We can read faith in his heart, since without faith no man can please God, and especially not be justified by Christ with the lips only, but only by confessing with the mouth from a heart of faith. Which the publican did and so was justified by Christ.

And just to show I am as serious as you, !!!

A Sav-ED man REPENTED and GAVE his LIFE unto Death FOR his required Sacrifice to RECEIVE the Lord Gods Gift of Salvation.

I don't try to decipher convoluted grammar.

Your going on about the very ignorance of not KNOWING, Repentance and Death, comes BEFORE receiving Salvation...and not KNOWING, once a Life IS given IN DEATH for the Lord...

This is at least readable, and so if you are speaking of taking up our own cross, and thus finding our lives in Christ, by losing our old life of sin, then I agree, there is no salvation nor justification in Christ beforehand, nor apart from doing so.

Which begins within the heart first:

Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

There is NO possibility OF coming back from that death, and RESUMING SIN against God.

Here of course is the result of declaring letters of Scripture on paper, as no longer mattering to OSAS proselytes, but only what is in their own minds. They just speak their minds using whatever letters they want.

Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

The real question is why they bother to pretend to have anything to do with dead letters on paper, much less rewrite them to justify their own minds.

OSAS needs no justification for their minds, so long as they think and believe it.

How MANY TIMES, do you run to the CHURCH and beat your chest, asking the CHURCH to forgive you ....
Because Jesus’ forgiveness FAILED you?

The grammer is ok, but the thinking is convoluted. I don't run into church, nor beat my breast, nor ask the church to forgive me. Jesus' forgiveness is all I need, unless I have done someone wrong.

The CHURCH IS “converted men”. I surely didn’t ASK “converted men”, to forgive my SIN AGAINST GOD! Nor does Scripture Teach that.

OSAS is perverted doctrine of unrighteous christian churches.

Well known YOU have ill feelings AGAINST men, who TEACH, A man giving HIS LIFE unto Death with Christ Jesus, IS Giving His LIFE unto Death FOR their Love of the Lord God...and ONCE a man GIVES His LIFE unto Death....”unlike your teaching”.....that man does not crawl back into the DEAD BODY beat his chest and PRETEND...”the Lords Salvation FAILED him”!

There is definitely something zombyish about this. Who speaks of crawling back into their dead bodies, even if that were possible?

That's more sick that crawling back into the mother's womb to be born again.

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

 

[Taken]

Foolishness is hailing oneself as a Christian whilst railing against the Lords Salvation...

 

[marks]

Are you now going to change James 2:14, and say it has nothing to do with being saved, as well as change James 2:22, by saying it has nothing to do with being justified with Christ?

I thought we were starting to play nice . . . All this talk of me "changing" Scripture . . . never mind.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes and James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God. (Romans 4:2-3) Works bear out the justification that already came by faith.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified is "dikaioo" #1344. In the context of James chapter 2.

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

Context is king, as they say!

Much love!

 

[robert derrick]

I thought we were starting to play nice . . . All this talk of me "changing" Scripture . . . never mind.

Much love!

I asked if you would change James 2:14, in order to continue arguing that the faith and works of James 2 have nothing to do with that of being saved and justified by Christ,

It's an entirely reasonable question, since you state something that completely contradicts James 2:22, that a man is justified by faith only. And your effort to argue another context for James 2 only results in you changing James 2:22, by adding with men to being justified by works, and removing not from faith only with Christ.

I was being honest and fair with you, to give you the chance to step back from doing so. And I was sort of hoping you would draw back.

I've already posted another thread on how once a false teacher begins to change one Scripture, God has written Scripture purposely to compel such false teachers, to then start changing more and more Scripture to keep teaching it. I made this case here in James 2 the first example of it.

And so, I did learn one good thing from you about faith with humility, so thanks for that.