The Mystery of Abraham's Works that do and don't Justify

[mailmandan]

Yes, and yes.
We are made righteous (justified) by faith all by itself apart from works (Romans 4:6).
We are shown to be righteous (justified) by the works that faith produces (James 2:18, James 2:24).

Both, justification by faith without works (Paul's argument), and justification by works of faith (James' argument) are in the Bible and they are two distinct arguments. They are not one and the same argument as so many think they are. To try to interpret them as one and the same argument will either 1) produce the very works gospel Paul warns us about, or 2) produce the 'dead faith' gospel James warns us about. But to understand them as the two distinct arguments they are produces the true gospel of salvation: Faith all by itself makes you righteous. Works show you to have that righteousness.

You could not have explained that any clearer. Well said.

 

[Robert Gwin]

And so that debt is gone, paid in full. Amen, amen, and amen.

Working to pay a debt you no longer have is...well...being ignorant of God's grace.


Yes, but not in order to make you righteous, but to show that you have received God's free gift of righteousness through faith in the work of Christ.


Yes, but it is not work that somehow makes me righteous. Being made righteous in God's sight, and therefore, eligible to enter the kingdom, happens entirely by receiving God's free gift of forgiveness through faith in the blood of Christ. The only way to be righteous is to have your unrighteousness removed through the forgiveness of God and replaced with His righteousness.

And furthermore, the 'work' I and everyone else does here in no way shape or form even compares to the work that actually matters - the 'work' of walking by the Spirit according to the fruit of the Spirit. The sacrifice of ones service will never compare to or replace the obedience of the fruit of the Spirit. Obedience is better than sacrifice. In fact, until we are obedient, the sacrifice of our service is not accepted by God. Few in the church understand this profound truth.


This:

"16From Him the whole body, fitted and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love through the work of each individual part." Ephesians 4:16​

I feel an obligation to fellowship with the body to aid in the building up of each other up into what God has predetermined that we will be built up into. And maybe, just maybe, there'll be a reward for me on the other side for whatever it is I can contribute to that end. But one thing's for sure, any work I do in no way shape or form makes me righteous in God's sight. None whatsoever. The righteousness I have is entirely a free gift of God's grace. Entirely and completely.

You definitely have the right idea about work Ferris, perhaps we define righteous differently, what do you understand righteous to mean?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You definitely have the right idea about work Ferris, perhaps we define righteous differently, what do you understand righteous to mean?

It means to be right, or just.
In regard to being declared righteous (justified), that happens two ways: We are declared to be righteous, legally speaking, when we receive God's forgiveness and his righteousness by faith in his forgiveness and the resurrection of Jesus, and we are declared to be righteous when we act righteously.

 

[Behold]

Iand we are declared to be righteous when we act righteously.

If we could be "declared righteous if we do good works, (act righteously)< then we dont need Jesus.
So, once again, you are always the self Effort, self righteousness, "look at me doing those works", "fallen from Grace".

Are you just not able to give Jesus the Credit due Him for your Salvation?
This just makes you upset???, if you can't try to present yourself as a FALSE part of that Cross?

WAKE UP.
= Get off your self righteousness and bow to the One who is the only reason God will accept you, Ferris.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If we could be "declared righteous if we do good works, (act righteously)< then we dont need Jesus.
So, once again, you are always the self Effort, self righteousness, "look at me doing those works", "fallen from Grace".

Are you just not able to give Jesus the Credit due Him for your Salvation?
This just makes you upset???, if you can't try to present yourself as a FALSE part of that Cross?

WAKE UP.
= Get off your self righteousness and bow to the One who is the only reason God will accept you, Ferris.

Your reading comprehension skills are horrible.

Righteous works show that you have the righteousness from God that comes through faith in the forgiveness of God. Works don't make you righteous. They show you to be righteous.

 

[Behold]

Your reading comprehension skills are horrible.

You have no righteousness that isn't given to you by God, Ferris.
And your works, are never righteous......only the Born again Spirit is RIGHTEOUS......."made Righteous"... having become "the righteousness of GOD, IN Christ".

You are like all self savers, .. .you are trying to prove that you doing some good deed is "righteousness". But its not.
Listen.
The same silly works you can do, before you are saved, that are "filthy rags", that God wont accept, are the same thing after you are saved.
NEVER are your works, counted by God as "righteous".....NEVER.
Only the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is counted as YOUR Righteousness.
You need to start understanding that, Mr Comprehension issue., and if you ever do, you'll stop talking about YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS< and you will post ONLY about God's Righteousness that you can't earn or perform.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

you are trying to make a distinction between wrong things: the distinction in Scripture is between being imputed righteousness and being made righteous...

The imputation of God's righteousness is to be made righteous in God's sight.
And to act in accordance with that imputation of God's righteousness shows that you have it.

...not between being made righteous and being righteous.

When you receive the imputation of God's righteousness you are in fact righteous in God's sight. You have a righteousness that is not your own. When you act righteously you are being the righteous person God made you. You are showing that you have the righteousness that is from God.

 

[Behold]

The imputation of God's righteousne= ss is to be made righteous in God's sight.
.

Ferris, if you are made righteous, its DONE.

This is SALVATiON.

This is to have received "the GIFT of Righteousness"

The born again have it, they have been made Righteous......and you can't get more righteous then GOD's Righteousness that the born again have received.

You then live your life, your discipleship, KNOWING that you are become the "righteousness of God, in Christ'.
That is how you maintain the "renewed mind".. Its by KNOWING who you have become as a "new Creation, in Christ".

Discipleship is not trying to keep that, or trying to DO that..
Discipleship is having BECOME THAT...
We are MADE RIGHTEOUS = to be a Disciple of Christ..........we are not trying to become one.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You have no righteousness that isn't given to you by God, Ferris.
And your works, are never righteous......only the Born again Spirit is RIGHTEOUS......."made Righteous"... having become "the righteousness of GOD, IN Christ".

You are like all self savers, .. .you are trying to prove that you doing some good deed is "righteousness". But its not.
Listen.
The same silly works you can do, before you are saved, that are "filthy rags", that God wont accept, are the same thing after you are saved.
NEVER are your works, counted by God as "righteous".....NEVER.
Only the "finished work of Jesus on the Cross" is counted as YOUR Righteousness.
You need to start understanding that, Mr Comprehension issue., and if you ever do, you'll stop talking about YOUR SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS< and you will post ONLY about God's Righteousness that you can't earn or perform.

You just don't listen. You've got guns blazing for me because I exposed your stupid theology that you don't have to remain a believer to be saved when Jesus comes back. The original OSAS teaching knew that a person must continue to believe to the very end to be saved through the judgment when Jesus comes back. This new OSAS teaching you ride like a one trick pony is one of the biggest jokes in all of Christendom...unbelievers entering into the kingdom at the end of the age. What a joke.

 

[Behold]

I exposed your stupid theology that you don't have to remain a believer to be saved

All you continually expose is that you dont Believe that Christ the Savior keeps you saved.

What is that?
That is you pretending you can save yourself.
See, you pretend faith, but you only have it in yourself....as "if i DO THIS....me me me...>I wont go to Hell"., and that is NOT Faith in Christ.

That is your Religion.

= Legalism

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Discipleship is not trying to keep that

Successful discipleship SHOWS that you are righteous in God and not of yourself. You do not know that this is also called being 'justified'. That's why you can not grasp what I'm saying. You think that being justified ONLY means receiving God's imputation of righteousness. It does not. It means to be made righteous (Paul's argument), and it also means to be shown to be righteous (James' argument). Two distinct definitions and usages of the word 'justified'. But since you do not know this you think I'm saying works MAKE you righteous.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

All you continually expose is that you dont Believe that Christ the Savior keeps you saved.

See? You're a one-trick pony ride. You can't stay on topic. You always have to change everything over from what we're talking about to your one and only thing you talk about. Which is completely false, lol. Unbelievers will NOT enter into the kingdom at the end of the age. Born again people are NOT unbelievers. You really need to get your head on straight about this, lol, and stop tickling the ears of unbelievers that they are somehow going to be saved from God's wrath when Jesus comes back. You're building a house of straw. Your 'converts' are not converted at all. They will burn up in the coming judgment. And you, assuming you are saved, will only be saved as by fire, barely escaping the flames yourself.

 

[Behold]

Successful discipleship SHOWS.

The born again, .... came to God as a dirty rotten sinner.
THat was you, the second before you trusted in Christ.

What did you become?
THINK.
CAN YOU THINK?

So, had you been a good Christian before God saved you that day?

NO.

So, you came to GOD, = UNGODLY...... HELL BOUND>....And what did God do with you, a dirty rotten sinner?
He gave you His Righteousness, before you ever did anything for Him.

Do you understand?
Are you able to understand?

So, you started that instant you were saved as "RIGHTEOUS".

Had you done anything for God yet?
NO
NO
NO.

So, NOW you want to teach that you are to prove righteousness, by works, when God gave you His very righteousness, before you ever did anything as a Disciple.

Can you see it yet?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The born again, .... came to God as a dirty rotten sinner.
THat was you, the second before you trusted in Christ.

What did you become?
THINK.
CAN YOU THINK?

So, had you been a good Christian before God saved you that day?

NO.

So, you came to GOD, = UNGODLY...... HELL BOUND>....And what did God do with you, a dirty rotten sinner?
He gave you His Righteousness, before you ever did anything for Him.

Do you understand?
Are you able to understand?

So, you started that instant you were saved as "RIGHTEOUS".

Had you done anything for God yet?
NO
NO
NO.

So, NOW you want to teach that you are to prove righteousness, by works, when God gave you His very righteousness, before you ever did anything as a Disciple.

Can you see it yet?

What I see is that you do not listen, lol.

 

[Behold]

See? You're a one-trick pony ride. You can't stay on topic.

You have one topic.

"How i lose my salvation if i dont hold unto my faith".
So, that is your one trick, mr pony.
You have nothing else, unless you argue with a Catholic.
But when you are talking to a real believer, and you try to prove your self righteousness, then you get what you deserve.
Be glad its me, and not Jesus that is rebuking your Cross Rejecting Legalsim.
You can smirk, because you dont know yet, what ive seen.

Better change your words, and give God the respect for Jesus's finished work on the Cross, and get away from..."hey everyone, let me show you why Jesus can't keep you saved".

Really.

 

[Robert Gwin]

It means to be right, or just.
In regard to being declared righteous (justified), that happens two ways: We are declared to be righteous, legally speaking, when we receive God's forgiveness and his righteousness by faith in his forgiveness and the resurrection of Jesus, and we are declared to be righteous when we act righteously.

Ok, I don't disagree with that either, but somehow you must not believe you are justified by works, what else is there to be justified on? In the first century there was an issue with this as well, and Jesus' own brother James addressed it. He pointed out basically that all those who have true faith, willingly show that faith through works. Works is simply obeying Jehovah, correct? One would not be declared righteous, such as Abraham, or even Noah had they not been obedient to the superlative degree. Not saying we all have to do exactly so as did Noah or Abraham, as they were of course outstanding examples, but like I pointed out, we have obedience matching our capabilities.

 

[robert derrick]

The imputation of God's righteousness is to be made righteous in God's sight.
And to act in accordance with that imputation of God's righteousness shows that you have it.


When you receive the imputation of God's righteousness you are in fact righteous in God's sight. You have a righteousness that is not your own. When you act righteously you are being the righteous person God made you. You are showing that you have the righteousness that is from God.

Sounds good to me. I accept it, and thanks for the correction. As I said, so long as the end result is the same, then the beginning of it can be clarified.

We are imputed righteousness by believing God and Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, to forgive us of all past sinning, and so we have a clean slate and are newborn pure and righteous babes as from the womb.

However, we are not justified by Christ, if we do not continue in that purity by returning to sinful works of the flesh. IF so, then we return to the old man who sinned from the beginning in youth.

In Christ, we start over again as newborn babes of clean conscience and record with God, however now with sure faith and knowledge that the youth Jesus had and kept and did righteously all His life.

And if we do sin again, we can confess and be forgiven again and restored to His righteous salvation as before.

There is no forgiveness nor salvation nor justification while sinning with the world as enemies of God, whether for the first time in our youth, or today, or tomorrow.

 

[robert derrick]

The difference of the nature of the work, carnal and spiritual, is the mystery of why Romans rejects being justified by works, and James declares being justified by works.

Obedience to the works of the law are not necessarily of faith nor spiritual in nature. Any sinner on earth can do the law of Christ by neighborliness and not being adulterers, drunkards, thieves, etc... Like Pharisees, any person can do the outward works of the law, if they will to do so without double mindedness.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Works of faith however are necessary to be justified by Christ, because they are works of the Spirit, which fulfill the righteousness of the law by inward purity first. These first works of the Spirit within us manifest themselves, not just in obedience to the law outwardly, but in offering up our souls and lives unto Christ on our own cross, even as He did unto the Father on His cross, and as Abraham did to the God of Israel on the altar of Isaac.

How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

It is only by the eternal Spirit, that we can also offer up ourselves to God, not just to do the works of His law, but to do whatsoever he says to us in faith to do:

Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Works of faith are justifying works of the Spirit through faith:

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

Abraham offered up his own son of promise, by believing God would raise Isaac from the dead by His Spirit, if necessary, to fulfill His promise to Abraham.

Only when faith is tried to offer up our own selves through faith in the eternal Spirit, are we justified as our Father Abraham.

By works of the law we cannot be justified, which requires no faith nor Spirit dwelling within, but by works of faith we justified by Christ, because such works need the eternal Spirit in which to do them.