Don't call yourself a Christian when you live like the world.

[BarneyFife]

This is my last day here B and I don't have to explain myself to you.
J.

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You certainly don't.

You don't owe me a thing.

I was just asking.

And I pray God bless and keep you, Brother.

I will always have fond memories of our early friendship.

I'll never forget your quirky Sly Stallone avatar and the brotherly love we shared.

I deeply regret that I didn't do more to stay in contact with you.

I've been blessed and edified by your labors of love here.
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[BarneyFife]

No. Disobedience ain't the reason any will be lost. Our choice to withhold/revoke surrender of our hearts to God is why people are lost. Disobedience is merely the outward evidence of that inward, shameful spiritual choice, just as obedience is merely the outward evidence of our inward choice to give our hearts to Jesus.

That's why people hate 1 John 2:3-4 KJV - it exposes those who refuse to surrender to God's commandments and instead "teach for doctrines the commandments of men". They are an illegitimate law unto themselves.

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Adam and Eve didn't bring this tide of woe upon us by suddenly developing enmity toward God, did they?

I thought the Bible said that we shall be judged according as our works shall be. ¿

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[Phoneman777]

.Adam and Eve didn't bring this tide of woe upon us by suddenly developing enmity toward God, did they? I thought the Bible said that we shall be judged according as our works shall be. ¿
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You certainly don't.

You don't owe me a thing.

I was just asking.

And I pray God bless and keep you, Brother.

I will always have fond memories of our early friendship.

I'll never forget your quirky Sly Stallone avatar and the brotherly love we shared.

I deeply regret that I didn't do more to stay in contact with you.

I've been blessed and edified by your labors of love here.
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He needs Christ and when he finds Him, he’ll limit his criticism to (hopefully) only false doctrine.

 

[Phoneman777]

.Adam and Eve didn't bring this tide of woe upon us by suddenly developing enmity toward God, did they?
I thought the Bible said that we shall be judged according as our works shall be. ¿

Don’t our works show whether we know Jesus or not?

Look, without first accepting Jesus, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to perform good works (Romans 8:7 KJV) so the reward of eternal life must be dependent on whether we accept Him or not.

 

[BarneyFife]

Don’t our works show whether we know Jesus or not?

Look, without first accepting Jesus, it’s IMPOSSIBLE to perform good works (Romans 8:7 KJV) so the reward of eternal life must be dependent on whether we accept Him or not.

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Well, of course, you're correct (and hopefully you'll pardon me for committing the "stating the painfully obvious" faux pas) but aren't we now approaching holiness from the other end of the spectrum as compared to Adam and Eve before the fall? They didn't need to "accept Jesus" as a Saviour from sin "to perform good works," did they? To my knowledge, they didn't need any special help apart from that with which they had already been supplied by design.

Recognize this?

Man was originally endowed with noble powers and a well-balanced mind. He was perfect in his being, and in harmony with God. His thoughts were pure, his aims holy.
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But through disobedience, his powers were perverted, and selfishness took the place of love. His nature became so weakened through transgression that it was IMPOSSIBLE for him, in his own strength, to resist the power of evil.

I know there's a popular view that sin is best defined as "separation from God," but I've never strayed from the "transgression of the law" school, myself.
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[BarneyFife]

He needs Christ and when he finds Him, he’ll limit his criticism to (hopefully) only false doctrine.

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I'm familiar with Johann.

We were quite chummy at one time.

Like all of us, he could use plenty of intercession.
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[Phoneman777]

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Well, of course, you're correct (and hopefully you'll pardon me for committing the "stating the painfully obvious" faux pas) but aren't we now approaching holiness from the other end of the spectrum as compared to Adam and Eve before the fall? They didn't need to "accept Jesus" as a Saviour from sin "to perform good works," did they? To my knowledge, they didn't need any special help apart from that with which they had already been supplied by design.

Recognize this?

Man was originally endowed with noble powers and a well-balanced mind. He was perfect in his being, and in harmony with God. His thoughts were pure, his aims holy.
***********************************
But through disobedience, his powers were perverted, and selfishness took the place of love. His nature became so weakened through transgression that it was IMPOSSIBLE for him, in his own strength, to resist the power of evil.

I know there's a popular view that sin is best defined as "separation from God," but I've never strayed from the "transgression of the law" school, myself.
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I agree we are to be holy...not to qualify ourselves for anything - but to merely evidence that Jesus has qualified us to both "will and to do of His good pleasure".

 

[Phoneman777]

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I'm familiar with Johann.

We were quite chummy at one time.

Like all of us, he could use plenty of intercession.
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One thing I've observed: those who cannot answer a challenge to their beliefs get their carnal feathers ruffled and become angry, while those of us who hold spiritual propositions that more than stand the test of Biblical scrutiny have a peace that passes all understanding.

 

[BarneyFife]

One thing I've observed: those who cannot answer a challenge to their beliefs get their carnal feathers ruffled and become angry, while those of us who hold spiritual propositions that more than stand the test of Biblical scrutiny have a peace that passes all understanding.

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I like your signature.
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[teamventure]

I can't get on board with this Pastor's critical and judgmental tone. I shy away from preachers that focus on sin too much, and hit you over the head with their Bibles - as if their teaching is purely led by the Holy Spirit. Sin needs to be addressed, just not si much a dominant theme so you're not leaving the church with this guilt trip that the Pastor lays on you _ all the time!
The Pharisees can't be compared to spirit filled mega churches like Chuck Smith's Calvary Chapel, Greg Laurie or even Joel Osteen. Some will attack Joel, even other Pastors like John MacArthur. I think they are jealous. Joel doesn't preach like John. You can sense the joy of the Lord in Joel. John is more of a college professor, serious, and so you'll get more doctrinal teaching from him. Joel encourages all to have faith. You don't go to Joel's church for doctrinal teaching, you go there to be lifted up. I went to a Mega church (about 3000) and it was both a teaching and spirit filled church.
So every Pastor has there own style and people are drawn to Christ in a myriad of ways, in small or large churches, teaching churches, faith based, Catholic or Protestant. As long as the Bible is taught. However anyone is drawn to Christ is good. Even if they aren't converted yet, the God is doing something, the word is slowly persuading them and transforming them. Better in church than apart from it. In the end, they will reach out for Christ and be saved. There are tares among the wheat and we need to be aware of them.
Also the fruit Jesus was talking about was the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We are to be salt and light in the world just not of the world. We have to live in it though, right. Just about every job out there is worldly unless you are a Pastor or Missionary. We pick one and do it with Christ.

People call preaching on sin critical and judgemental when they feel guilty from hearing the preaching.
His tone sounded fine to me.
It is the empty feel good preaching of those you are supporting that is the problem.
Preach on sin, repentence, and righteousness.
You say you want to hear preaching that floats your boat, that sounds like you have itching ears that you want to be tickled.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3 NIV

 

[Phoneman777]

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I like your signature.
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Likewise

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

People call preaching on sin critical and judgemental when they feel guilty from hearing the preaching.
His tone sounded fine to me.
It is the empty feel good preaching of those you are supporting that is the problem.
Preach on sin, repentence, and righteousness.
You say you want to hear preaching that floats your boat, that sounds like you have itching ears that you want to be tickled.

For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.
2 Timothy 4:3 NIV

Oh brother, sin is important to discuss. We are to hate sin, be aware if it in our own lives. But Jesus ties care of our sin, and I comfort in that. I do not need to sit in a church while a mean spirited preacher casts a guilt trip on everyone to the point of making you feel like you are not even worthy to receive Communion AND put doubt in your mind (with his LEGALISTIC mindset) that you can lose your salvation if you don't perform like a good little boy.
My Pastor had a philosophy of always ending the sermon with GRACE. He always loved his congregation, humbly showed his weaknesses and flaws and would often claim, " We are all sinners!"
I always felt the love and warmth of God in my Church.
Grace, peace, love, hope and let me add OSAS.
Praise be to our Lord and Savior, Jesus.

 

[teamventure]

Oh brother, sin is important to discuss. We are to hate sin, be aware if it in our own lives. But Jesus ties care of our sin, and I comfort in that. I do not need to sit in a church while a mean spirited preacher casts a guilt trip on everyone to the point of making you feel like you are not even worthy to receive Communion AND put doubt in your mind (with his LEGALISTIC mindset) that you can lose your salvation if you don't perform like a good little boy.
My Pastor had a philosophy of always ending the sermon with GRACE. He always loved his congregation, humbly showed his weaknesses and flaws and would often claim, " We are all sinners!"
I always felt the love and warmth of God in my Church.
Grace, peace, love, hope and let me add OSAS.
Praise be to our Lord and Savior, Jesus.

I see what you're saying and a lot of it is good, but if you see Joel Osteen as spirit filled you'll need to adjust your glasses.
There was more spirit of God in that "mean spirited" preacher.
Osteen and the like are empty and void of spirit, he's more like a robot.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I see what you're saying and a lot of it is good, but if you see Joel Osteen as spirit filled you'll need to adjust your glasses.
There was more spirit of God in that "mean spirited" preacher.
Osteen and the like are empty and void of spirit, he's more like a robot.

I can close my eyes and hear the spirit of love and joy. We are to be inspired as well as taught. We are to be lifted up to the Throne of heaven, not brought down to a pit of despondency. If a preacher has no joy, doesn't smile and even laugh at times, that says something about that person.
I was in the presence of 7 Rabbis, whom I picked up at the airport and transported them to the Fairfax District ( Little Jerusalem) Los Angeles. They were so serious, unfriendly, and would not speak to me until I spoke to them. It seemed like we're carrying the weight of the world around, down and trodden souls. No joy of the Lord. THE REASON: They didn't possess the Lord.. ThE Ephesians were accused of forgetting their first love, Jesus and brotherly love. But they had good doctrine, Still, Jesus said to them , repent.
Everyone chooses their preferred preacher and church, which is why God gave us a variety - didn't He. I think our personally type, background, education, sometimes determines the type of church and Pastor we gravitate to and feel at home. I have been to churches where the congregants claim their love for their Pastor and how he is so gifted and I did not get what they saw., wasn't impressed, thought he was uninspiring - to me. To each his own.

 

[teamventure]

I can close my eyes and hear the spirit of live and joy. We are to be inspired as well as taught. We as re to be lifted up to the Throne of heaven, not brought down to a pot of despondency. If a preacher has no joy, doesn't smile and even laugh at times, that says so.etging about that person.
I was in the presence of 7 Rabbis, whom I picked up at the airport and transported them to the Fairfax District ( Little Jerusalem) Los Angeles. They were so serious, unfriendly, and would not speak to me until I spoke to them. It seemed like we're carrying the weight of the world around, down and trodden souls. No joy of the Lord. THE REASON: They didn't possess the Lord.. ThE Ephesians were accused of forgetting their first love, Jesus and brotherly love. But they had good doctrine, Still, Jesus said to them , repent.
Everyone chooses their preferred preacher and church, which is why God gave us a variety - didn't He. I think our personally type, background, education, sometimes determines the type of church and Pasture we gravitate to and feel at home. I ha e been to churches where the congregants claim their love for their Pastor and how he is so gifted and I did not get what they saw., wasn't impressed, thought he was uninspiring - to me. To each his own.

I see what you're saying through your story and agree with you there but this new feel good gospel does not lift us up to the throne of heaven, it is dragging people to hell by not preaching the whole gospel and making everyone think that everything's ok by default.
They say God love's you so you don't need to repent. Repenting goes along with faith if someone has real faith in God they will repent because faith without works is dead.

 

[Jack]

Amen! Don't vote for those who murder MILLIONS of unborn babies to get rich! You'll burn in Hell.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

new feel good gospel does not lift us up to the throne of heaven, it is dragging people to hell by not preaching the whole gospel

So, can people get excited about going to church so that you can feel guilty and sad ... with a mean spirited Pastor who has lost his love and doesn't have a clue what happiness is because he's so serious and legalistic and more concerned about the old self that was supposed to have died? Anticjpating him pouncing on your sin nature, like the Pharisees did, you just can't wait to go back. Maybe he's a "salvation by works" believer - andJesus didn't quite finish the job so it is up to you.
He fails to understand that Grace starts with mercy and forgiveness which are essential parts of love. The Holy Spirit makes us holy, sanctified us, we can't do that, nor can your Pastor.
What is the Gospel? The Good News. Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day according time the scriptures.
As I said, to each his own.

They say God love's you so you don't need to repent

God draws you to Himself. This turning towards God begins with His lifting the veil of blindness so you can see, orchestrating everything in your life that brings you to that point of agreement by giving you a gift of faith through His Word. Your turning towards God and away from your old life is repentence.
I remember a time when I had no desire to go to church, read the Bible or turn towards God. I see people reading the Bible as turning towards God not Hell.

... if someone has real faith in God they will repent because faith without works is dead...

Absolutely. The works are done by God through us. He gets the credit. We participate. What do these works look like? I see them as the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[teamventure]

So, can people get excited about going to church so that you can feel guilty and sad ... with a mean spirited Pastor who has lost his love and doesn't have a clue what happiness is because he's so serious and legalistic and more concerned about the old self that was supposed to have died? Anticjpating him pouncing on your sin nature, like the Pharisees did, you just can't wait to go back. Mayber he's a "salvation by works" believer - andJesus didn't quite finish the job so it is up to you.
He fails to understand that Grace starts with mercy and forgiveness which are essential parts of love. The Holy Spirit makes us holy, sanctified us, we can't do that, nor can your Pastor.
What is the Gospel? The Good News. Jesus died for our sins and rose from the dead on the third day according time the scriptures.
As I said, to each his own.

God draws you to Himself. This turning towards God begins with His lifting the veil of blindness so you can see, orchestrating everything in your life that brings you to that point of agreement by giving you a gift of faith through His Word. Your turning towards God and away from your old life is repentence.
I remember a time when I had no desire to go to church, read the Bible or turn towards God. I see people going to He'll., reading the Bible as turning towards God not Hell.


Absolutely. The works are done by God through us. He gets the credit. We participate. What do these works look like? I see them as the fruit of the Spirit.

There is nothing inherently wrong with what you're saying I see it's all biblical, however it depends on where it's applied.
(An example of misapplication is saying that someone is preaching a works salvation when they aren't.)
One big note about your first sentence.
If preaching on sin makes you feel guilty, perhaps it's because you're in sin.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

There is nothing inherently wrong with what you're saying I see it's all biblical, however it depends on where it's applied.
(An example of misapplication is saying that someone is preaching a works salvation when they aren't.)
One big note about your first sentence.
If preaching on sin makes you feel guilty, perhaps it's because you're in sin.

We are all sinners and I need rebuke if I do. Iron sharpens iron. I do feel guilty about not being a big giver like my wife. She's got a gift, is a servant, gives of herself unselfishly. For years when the Pastor would ask for volunteers I would not readily raise my hand - always had an excuse, but then submitted to some things. So God has worked on me in that area. AND, I had been judgmental at times, having this sense to pick out weaknesses in folks and letting them know about it. It stung, and was not nice. Maybe they needed to hear it at times? Getting better with that too.
I had a Pastor point out that the reason why we feel guilty is because we are. When we do something wrong, that kind of sick nervous feeling in your stomach, throat swallowing, flushed feeling comes over us. It grieves the Holy Spirit and He let's us know about it and chastised us. Well we experience enough of this personally and God deals with it. We really don't need to be pounced on at church too. We need encouragement. The Bible mentions that 40 times, also to love one another, be kind, gentle, peaceful, joyful, faithful, hopeful, focus on things above and yes die to your old selves. We are to render our old selves dead as if we were on the cross with Christ. So we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh and so don't be so concerned about the dead man, we are alive in Christ.

 

[teamventure]

We are all sinners and I need rebuke if I do. Iron sharpens iron. I do feel guilty about not being a big giver like my wife. She's got a gift, is a servant, gives of herself unselfishly. For years when the Pastor would ask for volunteers I would not readily raise my hand - always had an excuse, but then submitted to some things. So God has worked on me in that area. AND, I had been judgmental at times, having this sense to pick out weaknesses in folks and letting them know about it. It stung, and was not nice. Maybe they needed to hear it at times? Getting better with that too.
I had a Pastor point out that the reason why we feel guilty is because we are. When we do something wrong, that kind of sick nervous feeling in your stomach, throat swallowing, flushed feeling comes over us. It grieves the Holy Spirit and He let's us know about it and chastised us. Well we experience enough of this personally and God deals with it. We really don't need to be pounced on at church too. We need encouragement. The Bible mentions that 40 times, also to love one another, be kind, gentle, peaceful, joyful, faithful, hopeful, focus on things above and yes die to your old selves. We are to render our old selves dead as if we were on the cross with Christ. So we walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh and so don't be so concerned about the dead man, we are alive in Christ.

If scripture addresses sin, so should we at the pulpit.
And the folks that want encouragement only instead of the meat of the word to chew on are immature in thefaith.