Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[LoveofTruth]

When Paul penned back in the first century there is "one baptism" (Eph 4:5) he was referring to the water baptism of the great commission that is commanded, that is administered by men, that saves and is age lasting. That one baptism is the same today as it was some 2000 years ago for God's word has not, will not change and no man has the power nor authority to change God's word. Just as the man-made idea of belief only cannot change God's word, belief only can never replace the Bible's requirement that men repent (Lk 13:3; Acts 2:38) confess (Mt 10:32-33; Rom 10:9-10) or water baptism (Mt 28:19-20; Acts 10:47-46; Acts 8:38) in order to be saved.

I don't believe so according to Paul's own words.

Paul tells us what the one baptism is and it is a baptism into Christ by the Spirit

which all are baptized into. 1 Cor 12:13 KJV, Galatians 3 KJV

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."(1 Cor 12:13 KJV)

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ"(Galatians 3:27 KJV)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@LoveofTruth

Here is a good article to consider.

Did Paul Sin in Acts 21? | Gordon Ferguson

Granted, I think looking at the Scriptures more and not making snap judgments on the apostles and what they did is the best thing to do. I have even started to retract my old commentaries on Acts 21.

I think we should say that they are innocent unless proven guilty (unless there is clear evidence of an incident that they did make a mistake on occasion like with Paul rebuking Peter). In fact, before I drew conclusions on Acts 21 in that Paul made a mistake. Now, I am not so sure. Paul could have been trying to be like a Jew to win the Jews (and he may not have regarded these animal sacrifices as salvific). It’s easy to throw down the hammer of judgment and condemn the apostles (without clear evidence), or it’s easy to say that the Jewish apostles were an exception to the rule of being okay with God even though they may have been justified by the Law (Which Paul condemned). So I don’t see Galatians 5:4 as having an exception as being okay for anyone. Neither am I saying that the Jewish apostles were condemned just because they kept the Law. Just because one keeps the Law does not mean they are doing it for salvific reasons. We see this with Paul having Timothy circumcised (even though Paul says at another point to the Galatian believers that if they seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit them nothing - Galatians 5:2).

My goal is not to judge the apostles or God’s people without Scripture making it clear beyond a shadow of a doubt that they did something wrong for sure. I say this because imagine if we are falsely judging the apostles when they are innocent? Imagine the Lord being upset with us over that?
Even in our court of law, one is innocent until proven guilty.

For me: It has to be clearly written and there has to be a good case made to establish truth. It would be better to say… we don’t know then to come to wrong conclusions. It is very well possible that we may not know and we look through a glass darkly.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I don't believe so according to Paul's own words.

Paul tells us what the one baptism is and it is a baptism into Christ by the Spirit

which all are baptized into. 1 Cor 12:13 KJV, Galatians 3 KJV

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."(1 Cor 12:13 KJV)

"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ"(Galatians 3:27 KJV)

Hi,

You cited two verses and assumed the type of baptism in those verses is spirit baptism but gave no proof to back that assumption up.

Paul was under the great commission as all Christians are and the baptism of the great commission is human administered water baptism. Paul himself water baptized others, (1 Cor 1:14,16), he was water baptized himself (Acts 22:16) and taught water baptism (Rom 6; Col 2).

Water baptism has been commanded thereby making it necessary if for no other reason. Water baptism saves (Matt 28:19020; Mk 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3:21). Yet baptism with the HS does not save nor has anyone been commanded to be "spirit baptized" for such does not exist today therefore it cannot be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.


As far as 1 Cor 12:13, here are points to note:


The context of 1 Cor 12 is the church at Corinth was divided over spiritual gifts. In order to bring unity, Paul reminded them that the same one Spirit gave them gifts according to the will of the Spirit so there should be no envy or conceit over the various gifts. Paul therefore in v13 uses the "one Spirit" to show the unity in how they all entered the body.


(1)
Paul did not say 'baptized with water' but rather said 'baptized by ONE Spirit' for Paul's point was NOT to stress the element (water) but the agent (Spirit), to show they all equally met the same condition (water baptism) to be in the body as all were bestowed gifts by the same one Spirit....so there as there was unity among gifts there was unity in entering the kingdom regardless of nationality and this was done by the same one Spirit.

(2)
Jn 3:5 there are two elements in the new birth, 1) Spirit 2) water and both elements are found in 1 Cor 12:13:

Jn 3:5---------Spirit +++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
1Cor12:13----Spirit +++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, and the Bible does not contradict itself then both verses must express the same idea making it clear that water baptism is the type of baptism under consideration.

(3)
from 1 Cor 1, we read Paul and others water baptized the Corinthians, men cannot baptize with the HS. Water baptism in the name of Jesus has been commanded, with the command making it a necessity to enter the body thereby making water baptism the one baptism of Eph 4:5. No one ever was ever commanded to be "spirit baptized".

(4)
Paul in 1 Cor 12:13 shows the Spirit was the agent of baptism as Jesus is said to be the agent of baptism in Jn 4:1-2 "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)" Note it says 'Jesus baptized' but Jesus did NOT personally baptize men but He authorized the disciples to water baptize men. Since Jesus authorized/commanded water baptism, then Jesus is said to be the agent when one is water baptized by a disciple. Likewise in 1 Cor 12:13, the Spirit like Jesus did not personally baptize those Corinthians but the Spirit inspired/authorized the Apostles to teach water baptism as the means to entering the body, hence when the disciples water baptized men as those Corinthians, the Spirit is said to be the agent.

Note in Acts 8 the Spirit sent for Phillip to water baptize the eunuch.
If 'spirit baptism' is the one baptism of Eph 4:5. Phillip was not necessary to be there for the Spirit could have baptized the eunuch Himself. Yet the eunuch was not spirit baptized but water baptized and saved by that water baptism. The Spirit was the agent in authorizing water baptism but it was a man, Phillip, that did the water baptism, hence it can be said the eunuch was baptized by the Spirit since the Spirit authorized it.


(5)
men have been commanded to be water baptized, so if I am not water baptized that is solely my fault, my culpability. Yet if 1 Cor 12:13 is Spirit baptism and I have not been 'spirit baptized', then my being unbaptized and lost outside the body of Christ cannot be my fault, but the fault and culpability of God/HS for failing to have baptized me with the Spirit. Furthermore, if God/HS baptized you with the Spirit but not me, that makes God a respecter of persons when He is not (Acts 10:34-35).

(6)
baptism with the HS was a prophecy of Joel that God would pour out His spirit upon ALL FLESH. All flesh does not mean every single person universally but at the time of Joel, mankind was seen in 2 divisions, you were either a Jew or Gentile, hence Jew and Gentile made up "all flesh". In Acts 2 the Lord baptized the Apostles with the Spirit and the Apostles were Jews. In Acts 10 Cornelius was baptized with the HS and he was a Gentile. Hence all flesh, Jew and Gentile, had God's spirit poured upon them thereby fulfilling Joel's prophecy about baptism with the HS with fulfilled meaning to cease, bring to an end. So spirit baptism cannot be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

 

[BeyondET]

Hi,

You cited two verses and assumed the type of baptism in those verses is spirit baptism but gave no proof to back that assumption up.

Paul was under the great commission as all Christians are and the baptism of the great commission is human administered water baptism. Paul himself water baptized others, (1 Cor 1:14,16), he was water baptized himself (Acts 22:16) and taught water baptism (Rom 6; Col 2).

Water baptism has been commanded thereby making it necessary if for no other reason. Water baptism saves (Matt 28:19020; Mk 16:15-16; Acts 2:38; 1 Pet 3:21). Yet baptism with the HS does not save nor has anyone been commanded to be "spirit baptized" for such does not exist today therefore it cannot be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.


As far as 1 Cor 12:13, here are points to note:


The context of 1 Cor 12 is the church at Corinth was divided over spiritual gifts. In order to bring unity, Paul reminded them that the same one Spirit gave them gifts according to the will of the Spirit so there should be no envy or conceit over the various gifts. Paul in v13 uses the "one Spirit" to show the unity in how they all entered the body.


(1)
Paul did not say 'baptized with water' but rather said 'baptized by ONE Spirit' for Paul's point was NOT to stress the element (water) but the agent (Spirit), to show they all equally met the same condition (water baptism) to be in the body as all were bestowed gifts by the same one Spirit....so there as there was unity among gifts there was unity in entering the kingdom regardless of nationality and this was done by the same one Spirit.

(2)
Jn 3:5 there are two elements in the new birth, 1) Spirit 2) water and both elements are found in 1 Cor 12:13:

Jn 3:5---------Spirit +++++++++++++ water >>>>>>>>> in the kingdom
1Cor12:13----Spirit +++++++++++++ baptized >>>>>>> in the body

Since there is just one way to be saved, no alternatives, and the Bible does not contradict itself then both verses must express the same idea making it clear that water baptism is the type of baptism under consideration.

(3)
from 1 Cor 1, we read Paul and others water baptized the Corinthians, men cannot baptize with the HS. Water baptism in the name of Jesus has been commanded, with the command making it a necessity to enter the body thereby making water baptism the one baptism of Eph 4:5. No one ever was ever commanded to be "spirit baptized".

(4)
Paul in 1 Cor 12:13 shows the Spirit was the agent of baptism as Jesus is said to be the agent of baptism in Jn 4:1-2 "When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John, (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)" Note it says 'Jesus baptized' but Jesus did NOT personally baptized but He authorized the disciples to water baptize. Since Jesus authorized/commanded water baptism, then Jesus is said to be the agent when one is water baptized by a disciple. Likewise in 1 Cor 12:13, the Spirit like Jesus did not personally baptized those Corinthians but the Spirit inspired/authorized the Apostles to teach water baptism as the means to entering the body, hence when the disciples water baptized those Corinthians, the Spirit is said to be the agent.

Note in Acts 8 the Spirit sent for Phillip to water baptize the eunuch.
If 'spirit baptism' is the one baptism of Eph 4:5. Phillip was not necessary to be there for the Spirit could have baptized the eunuch Himself. Yet the eunuch was not spirit baptized but water baptized and saved by that water baptism. The Spirit was the agent in authorizing water baptism but it was a man, Phillip, that did the water baptism, hence it can be said the eunuch was baptized by the Spirit since the Spirit authorized it.


(5)
men have been commanded to be water baptized, so if I am not water baptized that is solely my fault, my culpability. Yet if 1 Cor 12:13 is Spirit baptism and I have not been 'spirit baptized', then my being unbaptized and lost outside the body of Christ cannot be my fault, but the fault and culpability of God/HS for failing to have baptized me with the Spirit. Furthermore, if God/HS baptized you with the Spirit but not me, that makes God a respecter of persons when He is not (Acts 10:34-35).

(6)
baptism with the HS was a prophecy of Joel that God would pour out His spirit upon ALL FLESH. All flesh does not mean every single person universally but at the time of Joel, mankind was seen in 2 divisions, you were either a Jew or Gentile, hence Jew and Gentile made up "all flesh". In Acts 2 the Lord baptized the Apostles with the Spirit and the Apostles were Jews. In Acts 10 Cornelius was baptized with the HS and he was a Gentile. Hence all flesh, Jew and Gentile, had God's spirit poured upon them thereby fulfilling Joel's prophecy about baptism with the HS with fulfilled meaning to cease, bring to an end. So spirit baptism cannot be the one baptism of Eph 4:5.

You mentioned Joel that's a interesting story indeed, in the old testament not everybody was in the Spirit so to speak but afterwards it is, mo wasn't about the type but quantity.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I see water baptism as being a later requirement of the faith that we should strive to obey after we are first saved by God’s grace through faith without works. I see the faith as starting off as a belief alone (in regards to our salvation), but faith continues and is grows to be manifested as doing the work of faith and living holy (as a part of the Sanctification of the Spirit). From the beginning of our faith to the end of our faith, the just shall live by faith (See: Romans 1:17). We are justified by faith, whereby we have peace with God (Romans 5:1). We have access to his grace by faith (Romans 5:2).

NT faith includes repentance, confession and water baptism for salvation is not possible apart from any of these. Therefore faith only, that is faith apart from obedience by repentance, confession and baptism cannot save as is James' point in James 2 faith apart from obedient works does not save. This means all the belief alone in the world cannot save the impenitent, cannot save the one who will not confess Christ, cannot save the unbaptized.

John 1:12
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Note that belief by itself, that is, belief alone does not make one a child of God, but belief gives one the power to BECOME a child of God.

Faith/belief gives one the power to repent, confess and be water baptized. Unbelievers in the world as atheists, their unbelief makes repentance, confession and baptism impossible. An unbeliever has no knowledge of salvation and would therefore have no desire or knowledge of his need to repent, confess and be baptized. For example, those in Heb 6:4-6 fell into a state of unbelief where they were continuing to crucify Christ and continuing to put Christ to an open shame. This state of unbelief made repentance impossible for them.

Belief therefore is necessary in order to give one the power to obey God in repentance, confession and water baptism. Belief alone cannot save but belief gives one the power to know he needs to yield to God's commands, power to receive God's word and power to obediently submit to God's word.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

You mentioned Joel that's a interesting story indeed, in the old testament not everybody was in the Spirit so to speak but afterwards it is, mo wasn't about the type but quantity.

Hi,

Joel's prophecy, which Peter quotes in Acts 2 and ties directly to the Apostles being baptized with the HS, has been fulfilled with both Jew (Apostles) and Gentile (Cornelius) being baptized with the HS whereby all flesh, Jew and Gentile, have been baptized with the HS meaning Joe's prophecy has been fulfilled therefore baptism with the HS has ended, ceased therefore cannot the one baptism of Eph 4.

 

[BeyondET]

Hi,

Joel's prophecy, which Peter quotes in Acts 2 and ties directly to the Apostles being baptized with the HS, has been fulfilled with both Jew (Apostles) and Gentile (Cornelius) being baptized with the HS whereby all flesh, Jew and Gentile, have been baptized with the HS meaning Joe's prophecy has been fulfilled therefore baptism with the HS has ended, ceased therefore cannot the one baptism of Eph 4.

Hi,

Where in scripture that says baptism of the HS has ended. Jesus ended alot on the cross doesn't mean he has ended.

Joel was correct in his time only a select few had the HS, but at Pentecost that changed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

NT faith includes repentance, confession and water baptism for salvation is not possible apart from any of these. Therefore faith only, that is faith apart from obedience by repentance, confession and baptism cannot save as is James' point in James 2 faith apart from obedient works does not save. This means all the belief alone in the world cannot save the impenitent, cannot save the one who will not confess Christ, cannot save the unbaptized.

John 1:12
"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:"

Note that belief by itself, that is, belief alone does not make one a child of God, but belief gives one the power to BECOME a child of God.

Well, we have to be careful in our reading and studying the King James Bible. We cannot always enforce our modern English upon our reading of it. There are archaic words in the King James Bible that we have to properly understand (Seeing it was written in 1600’s English). For example: The word conversation in 2 Peter 3:11 is an archaic English word.

2 Peter 3:11 (KJB)

“Seeing then that all these things
shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought
ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,”​

Source:
Defined King James Bible - by D.A. Waite.
(Note: You can pick up a more affordable copy at EBay (if you are interested)).
(Note 2: I believe the KJB is the perfect Word of God and is my final word of authority, even though I do use Modern Translations to help update what the KJB says at times).

Anyways, this word conversation is still true, it just means that the word back then was understood as meaning behavior at that time.

Okay. Getting to the word become in the King James Bible. I believe it is saying they become a son of God by believing in His name or in receiving Him.

How so?

Well, Romans 3:12 says,

“They are all gone out of the way,
they are together become unprofitable;
there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”​

Romans 3:12 is not saying that everyone (all sinners) will one day become unprofitable (speaking in a future tense). It’s speaking in the past tense or present day reality of everyone (because everyone has sinned at one point in their life; Even those few faithful believers who do the Word of God in our world today daily have sinned as a part of their old life before they received Jesus as their Savior).

Besides, the Berean Literal Bible says:

John 1:12 (Berean Literal Bible)

“But as many as received Him,
He gave to them authority to be children of God--
to those believing in His name,”​

Galatians 3:26 says

“For ye are all the children of God
by faith in Christ Jesus.”​

In fact, a person who just calls upon the name of the Lord can be saved initially.

Romans 10:13 says:

“For whosoever shall call upon
the name of the Lord shall be saved.”​

Read the context of Romans 10, and it is clearly talking about one first coming to the Lord for salvation.

In addition, Cornelius and his household received the Spirit before even being water baptized and without them seeking forgiveness with the Lord yet. They just believed the gospel message and the Spirit came upon them.

Faith/belief gives one the power to repent, confess and be water baptized. Unbelievers in the world as atheists, their unbelief makes repentance, confession and baptism impossible.

The context of Acts 2 is that the audience was ALL Jewish. There were no Gentiles who were not Jewish at Pentecost. Only Jews were present. The Jews were already supposed to know about GOD. So Acts 2 at Pentecost was a call back to repentance for them, and for them to repent in rejecting their Messiah Jesus Christ (in whom they crucified). Acts 2 is not a call to you —- the Gentile to accept the Lord Jesus for the first time. As we can see with Cornelius and his household (Who were Gentiles), they were not told to repent and be baptized in order to receive the gift of the Spirit. They received the Spirit before being water baptized and repentance was not even mentioned. Granted, believers should repent. I am not denying we should call upon the name of the Lord Jesus (seeking forgiveness with Him) to be saved (Which leads to the natural fruits of repentance). The fact is that your belief is not in line with what we read in Scripture. Believers are saved initially by faith without works. THEN…. They continue in the faith and that faith moves beyond being a belief alone and is manifested as doing works of faith and in living holy (i.e. the Sanctification of the Spirit).

You want to bypass salvation by God’s grace (without works) in our Initial Salvation and that is exactly what Paul preached against in many of his letters to the churches (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5) (Romans 4:3-5) (Romans 11:6).

An unbeliever has no knowledge of salvation and would therefore have no desire or knowledge of his need to repent, confess and be baptized. For example, those in Heb 6:4-6 fell into a state of unbelief where they were continuing to crucify Christ and continuing to put Christ to an open shame. This state of unbelief made repentance impossible for them.

Belief therefore is necessary in order to give one the power to obey God in repentance, confession and water baptism. Belief alone cannot save but belief gives one the power to know he needs to yield to God's commands, power to receive God's word and power to obediently submit to God's word.

Yes, you need to believe in order to obey God. But you have taken James 2:24 to the farthest extreme to even refer to Initial Salvation when that is not the context of what James was talking about. James in context was talking to those who were believers already. This is the error of the Church of Christ and the Catholic Church. You make it all about works and no grace ever. This is wrong. Without grace… we would all be doomed. Again, I am not saying we can sin and still be saved or refuse to enter the secondary aspect of salvation (Which is the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life). Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. But if you bypass grace…. You are making it all about works. Romans 11:6 says if it be of works it is no more grace. Our entrance gate and foundation needs to be God’s grace. For God’s grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). It’s why the woman kept kissing Jesus’ feet and anointed them with tears. She was forgiven much and so she loved much. But if you don’t give glory to God for His redemption and His forgiveness then it’s really all about what you do alone and there is no grace ever. This is what is wrong with your belief here on many levels. You ran into the wrong opposite extreme of Protestant Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism and made salvation all about works and no grace.

Please take no offense. I love you in Jesus Christ, but I simply find this kind of belief you are promoting here as extremely wrong. One needs grace first before they can obey or do a work. It’s the whole point why Jesus came to save us.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hi,

Joel's prophecy, which Peter quotes in Acts 2 and ties directly to the Apostles being baptized with the HS, has been fulfilled with both Jew (Apostles) and Gentile (Cornelius) being baptized with the HS whereby all flesh, Jew and Gentile, have been baptized with the HS meaning Joe's prophecy has been fulfilled therefore baptism with the HS has ended, ceased therefore cannot the one baptism of Eph 4.

While I believe Ephesians 4:5 is referring to the one baptism as water baptism (because the context is focused on three things that we must do as believers), we have to also recognize that 1 Corinthians 12:13 is referring to a Spirit baptism (of which is not said in God’s Word that it has ended or will end at some point later).

1 Corinthians 12:13 says

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized
into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”​

This can only be Spirit baptism because those who be BOND (and not free) may not be able to be water baptized seeing they are a slave or bound up in prison. Just like Cornelius, we can receive the Spirit by just believing. If we receive the Spirit we are being initially saved. To write this off as being unique to the early church when the Scriptures are not that clear sounds like one is trying desperately to deny something in the Bible they don’t want to be true. You would need a lot of clear verses showing that Spirit baptism has ended. But to my knowledge of studying the Bible there is none.

Side Note:

Paul is also not talking in absolutes in Ephesians 4:5. He is not saying that there are not other baptisms. This fact is made clear in Hebrews 6:2. Paul is merely speaking in context of the type of one baptism we need to be concerned with. God will baptize when we believe. So that kind of baptism is out of our hands or choice if we truly believe. For I don’t know about you, but when I received Jesus as my Savior, believing the gospel message and seeking forgiveness with Him, I was born again spiritually. I received a love, joy, and peace that I had never known before. I was not even aware of the baptism issue until many years later. That did not mean I was not changed by the Lord.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Hi,

Where in scripture that says baptism of the HS has ended. Jesus ended alot on the cross doesn't mean he has ended.

Joel was correct in his time only a select few had the HS, but at Pentecost that changed.

In my earlier post, baptism with the HS was a prophecy of Joel that was fulfilled therefore it has ended, ceased. Jesus did not end Himself on the cross, but He ended the OT by fulfilling it, (Eph 2:12-16). If the OT prophecies have not been fulfilled then all the OT laws are still in effect until they are fulfilled.

The one baptism if Eph 4:5 that is in effect presently is the water baptism of the great commission, this baptism:
1) saves
2) commanded to all creatures/every nation
3) is how disciples/Christians are made
4) administered by humans
5) lasts till the end of time

.......none of which are true of baptism with the HS eliminating it from being that one baptism in effect today.

 

[Behold]

But after that we ares saved by God’s grace, we have to continue in the faith

We give God our Faith, and God gives us His Salvation.
God's Salvation is not our works or our attempt to be like Christ or our attempt to keep the commandments.
Salvation is what Jesus accomplished on the Cross.
Final Answer.

FAITH is not Salvation.. FAITH is what we Give to GOD, so that HE then GIVES TO US< the "GIFT of Salvation".

We do not hold unto faith, or to anything to stay saved.
We remain born again, because you can't stop being born again.
The born again remain IN CHRIST, because spiritual union with God and Christ is caused by GOD, and maintained by God.
A BIRTH, is not something you can change because of how you feel today, or what you believe next.

 

[Behold]

This is insanity because Scripture says by faith Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his house (See Hebrews 11:7).

Yes, the Ark kept Noah and His family OUT OF THE WATER.
That's true.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Well, we have to be careful in our reading and studying the King James Bible. We cannot always enforce our modern English upon our reading of it. There are archaic words in the King James Bible that we have to properly understand (Seeing it was written in 1600’s English). For example: The word conversation in 2 Peter 3:11 is an archaic English word....

You posted "One needs grace first before they can obey or do a work."
You are espousing a teaching of man here and not a teaching of Christ.

No verse says one must be given grace before one is able to obey. The Bible shows the exact opposite in that one must first obey before receiving grace. No verse says the disobedient, unrighteous, wicked UNconditionally receive grace then some time later they can obey. This idea of yours would have God being culpable for the disobedient and showing respect of persons as to whom God gives grace and withholds grace.

OBEDIENCE is the basis as to who receives grace and who will not. As far back as the OT, God's predetermined course of action is to show mercy to the obedient and no mercy for the disobedient, Jer 18:8-10. Pharaoh disobeyed God = no mercy. King of Nineveh obeyed = God showed mercy.

1) Noah built the ark (obedience) >>>>>>>> >>>> saved from flood (grace)
2) Naaman dipped 7 times (obedience)>>>>>>>>> healed of disease (grace)
3) Israel march around Jericho (obedience) >>>>>> received city (grace)

In the NT, it those who obey that receive grace:

Rom 6:16 ----obedience (obey) >>>>>>>>>>> unto righteousness/saved (grace)
Jn 3:3,5----- born again (obedience) >>>>>>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Matt 7:21----do the will of God (obedience) >>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Mk 16:16---believe & baptized (obedience) >>>> saved (grace)
Jn 3:16 -----believeth (obedience) >>>>>>>>> saved
Acts 2:38 ---repent & baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> remission of sins/saved (grace)
Rom 10:9---confess w/mouth (obedience) >>>>> saved (grace)
Rom 6:17-18--obeyed from heart (obedience) >>> justified (grace)

I can cite many more verses but these should suffice to prove that receiving grace is NOT UNconditional but is 100% totally conditional upon obedience to the will of God.

Therefore there is not one verse in the NT that teaches salvation apart from obedience:

-- obedience is not a work of merit. In all the examples I cited above, both OT and NT examples, obedience is never called a work of merit.

-- Eph 2:8; Rom 4:3-5; Tts 3:5 eliminate works of merit works of the OT law but no verse eliminate obedience. Again, NO VERSE teaches the disobedient/wicked/unrighteous UNconditionally receive grace.

============================================
You posted about calling on the name of the Lord.

"Calling on the name of the Lord" does NOT mean I can just call out to Christ to save me while I disobey Christ's will by doing nothing. Lk 6:46 why call ye Me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say? It is the wise man that "heareth AND DOETH" and it is the foolish man that heareth and doeth NOT, (Mt 7:24ff). Therefore calling on the name of the Lord means to do what the Lord says to do. Peter quoted Joel's prophecy in Acts 2:21 and that prophecy fulfilled in v38:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>> saved
repent and be baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved/remission of sins

Paul/Saul in Acts 22:16 was calling upon the name of the Lord when he arose and was baptized.

Acts 2:41
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized.."
This means those who rejected Peter's gospel words rejected baptism. The logical conclusion is rejecting water baptism is rejecting Christ's gospel, being water baptized is accepting Christ's gospel.


2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

--the logical implication of this verse is that it requires one to OBEY to not be in flaming fire...another death knell to Luther's faith onlyism.
--one therefore MUST 'obey the gospel of Christ' to not be in flaming fire.
--the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4)
--in water baptism (Rom 6) one dies to sin, the old man of sin DIES, one is BURIED in a watery grave from which one is "raised up from", hence there is a death burial and resurrection (obeying the gospel) in water baptism. This death burial and resurrection does not take place anywhere in the NT with belief only or saying a sinner's prayer nor some with "spirit" baptism.


===============================================


John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You were unable to explain the plain verse away. The verse in no way says 'believe only and thou are a son of God' for belief apart from repentance, confession and baptism cannot save, (Lk 13:3; Mt 10:32-33; Mk 16:16). Belief alone cannot save the impenitent, cannot save those who will not confess Christ nor save those who reject the Gospel of Christ by not being water baptized (Acts 2:41). Believing gives one the power to repent, confess and be baptized for for unbelief prevents the unbeliever/atheist from repenting, confessing Christ and being water baptized for remission of sins.

The word "become" (ginomai) means:
--to come into existence,
--to become, i.e. to come to pass

Being a child of God comes to pass, comes into existence not until one first believes then uses the power of belief to repent, confess and be baptized. .......'as many as received (past tense - believed) Him ....those who ALREADY believe now have the power to become (using the power belief gives to repent confess be baptized) the son of God. Note the verse is speaking of those who already (past tense) believe but can 'become', not yet come to pass in being sons of God but now possess the power belief gives in order to become sons of God.

No matter how hard you may try, you can NEVER have an impenitent person who refused to confess Christ and refuses to obey the gospel of Christ (2 Thess 1:8) a son of God.


=====================================================

Acts 10, Cornelius being baptized with the HS had nothing to do with his perosonal salvation. In giving Peter and vision that Gentiles were "clean" and baptizing Cornelius with the HS, God was using Cornelius as a medium to prove to the Jews the Gentiles were in fact clean and salvation was also to go to them, salvation was not just for the Jew. After the Lord baptized Cornelius with the HS, Peter did NOT says "Cornelius being baptized with the HS proves he is saved so he does not have to be water baptized". instead Peter COMMANDED water baptism proving Cornelius was not saved, something was lacking in his being saved and that was being water baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sins. The fact water baptism is commanded makes it necessary to salvation if for no other reason.

Again, from Acts 2:41 being water baptized is receiving the gospel word and rejecting water baptism is rejecting the gospel word. Therefore AFTER Cornelius was water baptized it is said Acts 11:1 "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." It only thru water baptism God's word is received, NOT by being baptized with the HS.

 

[Behold]

While I believe Ephesians 4:5 is referring to the one baptism as water baptism (because the context is focused on three things that we must do as believers),

There is more than 1 baptism.... so, when a verse singles out "baptism", and does not specify water, then you are dealing with "Spiritual" Baptism.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

While I believe Ephesians 4:5 is referring to the one baptism as water baptism (because the context is focused on three things that we must do as believers), we have to also recognize that 1 Corinthians 12:13 is referring to a Spirit baptism (of which is not said in God’s Word that it has ended or will end at some point later).

1 Corinthians 12:13 says

“For by one Spirit are we all baptized
into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles,
whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”​

This can only be Spirit baptism because those who be BOND (and not free) may not be able to be water baptized seeing they are a slave or bound up in prison. Just like Cornelius, we can receive the Spirit by just believing. If we receive the Spirit we are being initially saved. To write this off as being unique to the early church when the Scriptures are not that clear sounds like one is trying desperately to deny something in the Bible they don’t want to be true. You would need a lot of clear verses showing that Spirit baptism has ended. But to my knowledge of studying the Bible there is none.

Side Note:

Paul is also not talking in absolutes in Ephesians 4:5. He is not saying that there are not other baptisms. This fact is made clear in Hebrews 6:2. Paul is merely speaking in context of the type of one baptism we need to be concerned with. God will baptize when we believe. So that kind of baptism is out of our hands or choice if we truly believe. For I don’t know about you, but when I received Jesus as my Savior, believing the gospel message and seeking forgiveness with Him, I was born again spiritually. I received a love, joy, and peace that I had never known before. I was not even aware of the baptism issue until many years later. That did not mean I was not changed by the Lord.

You admit that the one baptism of Eph 4:5 is water baptism, therefore that eliminates all other types of baptism including baptism with the HS.

Yet you then AMAZINGLY try to argue "Paul is also not talking in absolutes in Ephesians 4:5. He is not saying that there are not other baptisms"

If "one baptism" does not literally, absolutely mean ONE baptism but allows for other baptismS, then ONE Lord must allow for other lordS and ONE God must allow for other godS and one faith must allow for other faithS and one Spirit must allow for other spiritS.

1 Cor 12:13 is water baptism
1 Cor 12:13 ----------Spirit ++++++++ baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> into the body
Jn 3:5----------------Spirit +++++++++ water >>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the kingdom

Clearly water baptism is what 1 Cor 12:13 speaks about as Paul water baptized some of those Corinthians himself, (1 Cor 1:14,16) which is the literal, absolute one baptism of Eph 4:5.

Acts 8 the Spirit did not personally baptize the eunuch but instead sent for Phillip to water baptize the eunuch, the ONE baptism of EPh 4:5.
My post #283 gives a full explanation of 1 Cor 12:13.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In my earlier post, baptism with the HS was a prophecy of Joel that was fulfilled therefore it has ended, ceased. Jesus did not end Himself on the cross, but He ended the OT by fulfilling it, (Eph 2:12-16). If the OT prophecies have not been fulfilled then all the OT laws are still in effect until they are fulfilled.

The one baptism if Eph 4:5 that is in effect presently is the water baptism of the great commission, this baptism:
1) saves
2) commanded to all creatures/every nation
3) is how disciples/Christians are made
4) administered by humans
5) lasts till the end of time

.......none of which are true of baptism with the HS eliminating it from being that one baptism in effect today.

So do you believe true genuine Christians are made to drink of one Spirit today according to 1 Corinthians 12:13?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You posted "One needs grace first before they can obey or do a work."
You are espousing a teaching of man here and not a teaching of Christ.

My apologies if my words were not as precise. I was speaking in reference to obedience as in our doing something like a work or in doing a particular laborious action, ceremony, etcetera (As a part of the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life - after we are saved by God's grace). I was not referring to how we need to “obey from the heart” by believing the doctrine of the good news message (Romans 6:17).

I believe that to “obey from the heart” that form of doctrine delivered to us in Romans 6:17 is talking about our belief in Jesus for salvation and our belief in the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

So I see a significant difference between...

#1. “Obeying from the heart the doctrine” by believing in Jesus for salvation and believing the gospel message (Initial faith),

vs.
​

#2. Obeying by our performance in doing a laborious actions, works, etcetera. (Continued faith, i.e. To live out your faith).
​

One is a belief (Which can include seeking God's mercy), and the second is performance of works (Which is one aspect of abiding in the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life). There is a stark contrast between the two.

While you may not be making this claim, can we boast in our obedience to God in that we ultimately save ourselves? (Note: Yes, I am aware of Acts 2:40).

I don’t believe so.

First, take under consideration that grace needs to be shown to us first before we can respond or obey from the heart by believing.

Isaiah 26:10 (NKJV) says:

“Let grace be shown to the wicked, Yet he will not learn righteousness;…”​

As we can see in this above verse in Isaiah, we learn that grace is shown to the wicked and yet the wicked will not learn righteousness (Which describes those who either reject Jesus for salvation in this life and or those who call themselves Christians but they believe they can set out to sin on some level and think they are still saved somehow; i.e. Meaning: They think Jesus magically paid for all their future sin somehow when that is simply not the case). Meaning, we did not obey in order for grace to happen. Grace was shown to us first before we even obeyed from the heart so as to believe in Jesus for salvation.

Second, just so that you may know, I am not a Calvinist and I actually find all five points of Calvinism to be extremely unbiblical and wrong in many ways. So this means that I do believe we have free will to accept or reject God’s loving offer (or free gift of eternal life). This gift is Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son (John 3:16).

But when we do respond (obey from the heart) by believing Jesus for eternal life in our Initial Salvation, I believe God is still one step ahead of us in our obedience. His grace is one step ahead of us in our obedience.

Take under consideration the following truths in Scripture:

#1. You are not born of the will of the flesh but of the will of God (See: John 1:13). (This means you were not born again by your own will but by the will of God ultimately). The wind blows where it wishes (KJB says “listeth” instead of wishes - John 3:8; This is referring to the Spirit). So you cannot take ultimate credit in your being born again. For you said to me: I quote, “born again (obedience)” In other words, it sort of sounds like you are basically saying to me, “It was my obedience (i.e. my will) to be born again”; If that is the case, this signifies you do not understand what it truly means to be: “born again.” When I was born again by the Spirit, it was not something I was planning to do that day. God came into my life unexpectedly one day and He changed my heart. I felt a love, joy, and peace that I had never known before, and I wanted everyone to feel the same way I did. I believe I was elected by God based on God the Father's foreknowledge (1 Peter 1:1-2). I believed I was also called by God, as well. This is not by my own will or obedience.

#2. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners (Romans 5:8) (This is grace shown to us without our obedience yet).

#3. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world (John 1:29) (1 John 2:2). So does that mean everyone is saved? Well, I don't believe in Universalism in that everyone will be saved in the end (i.e. that even the wicked who rejected Jesus in their life will be in Heaven eventually). That's clearly a false doctrine. However, I do believe most of all people of the world were saved at one point in time. How so? Well, with the exception of those individuals who worship the beast in the future (i.e. those people who never had their names written in the book of life since the foundation of the world - Revelation 13:8, Revelation 17:8), I believe the Bible teaches that most of mankind (who have ever lived, i.e. the world) were saved by God’s grace as a baby. For sin is not imputed where there is no Law (Romans 5:13). Babies are not aware of the Law. Babies are not even capable of believing in Jesus yet. Yet, I know that if a baby dies, they are saved by God’s grace because that is what we see happen in Scripture (2 Samuel 12:23); For children are of the kingdom (Matthew 19:14). Note: I have talked with Calvinists who believe babies can end up in hell (Which is just downright scary that they would even believe such an abominable thing about God, and His love). Anyways, my point here is that you were once saved by God's grace as a baby without you doing anything or without any obedience. It was only your later sin that separated you from God (Whereby God then calls us to salvation at the right time in our life).

#4. God makes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and He sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous (See: Matthew 5:45).

#5. The Spirit convicts the world of sin because they believe not on Jesus (John 16:8-9). So a person needs the conviction of the Holy Spirit in their life in order for them to believe on Jesus for salvation. You cannot just one day wake up and decide to believe on your own without the Spirit convicting you of your sin.

#6. Christ draws all men unto Himself (John 12:32). Christ knocks at the door of the heart (Revelation 3:20) (Ephesians 3:17). You cannot obey God first without Christ drawing you to Him. You cannot open the door to Christ without hearing Him knocking.

#7. God illuminates the understanding of His Word in order to reach us. God's Word (Scripture) needs to break us. God's Word (Scripture) is like a fire and like a hammer that breaks a rock into pieces (Jeremiah 23:29). Jesus said His words are spirit, and they are life (John 6:63). We cannot obey without God illuminating of His Word to us. We could have read Scripture a ton of times before, but unless God illuminates His Word to us at the right moment in our life, we will never see. We see this burning of the Word from Jeremiah 23:29 with the two men on the road to Emmaus. Luke 24:32 says, “And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?” The Scriptures were opened to them. The meaning was closed before, and now it was opened to them. The Word (Scripture) was illuminated to them by the Lord Jesus Christ. All true believers needed to have this road to Emmaus moment. This is being born again by the Communicated Word of God (1 Peter 1:23). This is what it means to be born again of water. For Ephesians 5:25-27 makes it clear that Christ gave Himself so that He can sanctify us with the washing of the WATER of the Word so that He might present to Himself a church that is holy, and without blemish, and spot. This means you cannot obey God without this illumination of His Word. God needed to show you a time in your life by His grace and mercy the meaning of His Word for you to respond.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You posted "One needs grace first before they can obey or do a work."
You are espousing a teaching of man here and not a teaching of Christ.

No verse says one must be given grace before one is able to obey. The Bible shows the exact opposite in that one must first obey before receiving grace. No verse says the disobedient, unrighteous, wicked UNconditionally receive grace then some time later they can obey. This idea of yours would have God being culpable for the disobedient and showing respect of persons as to whom God gives grace and withholds grace.

OBEDIENCE is the basis as to who receives grace and who will not. As far back as the OT, God's predetermined course of action is to show mercy to the obedient and no mercy for the disobedient, Jer 18:8-10. Pharaoh disobeyed God = no mercy. King of Nineveh obeyed = God showed mercy.

1) Noah built the ark (obedience) >>>>>>>> >>>> saved from flood (grace)
2) Naaman dipped 7 times (obedience)>>>>>>>>> healed of disease (grace)
3) Israel march around Jericho (obedience) >>>>>> received city (grace)

In the NT, it those who obey that receive grace:

Rom 6:16 ----obedience (obey) >>>>>>>>>>> unto righteousness/saved (grace)
Jn 3:3,5----- born again (obedience) >>>>>>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Matt 7:21----do the will of God (obedience) >>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Mk 16:16---believe & baptized (obedience) >>>> saved (grace)
Jn 3:16 -----believeth (obedience) >>>>>>>>> saved
Acts 2:38 ---repent & baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> remission of sins/saved (grace)
Rom 10:9---confess w/mouth (obedience) >>>>> saved (grace)
Rom 6:17-18--obeyed from heart (obedience) >>> justified (grace)

I can cite many more verses but these should suffice to prove that receiving grace is NOT UNconditional but is 100% totally conditional upon obedience to the will of God.

Therefore there is not one verse in the NT that teaches salvation apart from obedience:

-- obedience is not a work of merit. In all the examples I cited above, both OT and NT examples, obedience is never called a work of merit.

-- Eph 2:8; Rom 4:3-5; Tts 3:5 eliminate works of merit works of the OT law but no verse eliminate obedience. Again, NO VERSE teaches the disobedient/wicked/unrighteous UNconditionally receive grace.

============================================
You posted about calling on the name of the Lord.

"Calling on the name of the Lord" does NOT mean I can just call out to Christ to save me while I disobey Christ's will by doing nothing. Lk 6:46 why call ye Me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say? It is the wise man that "heareth AND DOETH" and it is the foolish man that heareth and doeth NOT, (Mt 7:24ff). Therefore calling on the name of the Lord means to do what the Lord says to do. Peter quoted Joel's prophecy in Acts 2:21 and that prophecy fulfilled in v38:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>> saved
repent and be baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved/remission of sins

Paul/Saul in Acts 22:16 was calling upon the name of the Lord when he arose and was baptized.

Acts 2:41
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized.."
This means those who rejected Peter's gospel words rejected baptism. The logical conclusion is rejecting water baptism is rejecting Christ's gospel, being water baptized is accepting Christ's gospel.


2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

--the logical implication of this verse is that it requires one to OBEY to not be in flaming fire...another death knell to Luther's faith onlyism.
--one therefore MUST 'obey the gospel of Christ' to not be in flaming fire.
--the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4)
--in water baptism (Rom 6) one dies to sin, the old man of sin DIES, one is BURIED in a watery grave from which one is "raised up from", hence there is a death burial and resurrection (obeying the gospel) in water baptism. This death burial and resurrection does not take place anywhere in the NT with belief only or saying a sinner's prayer nor some with "spirit" baptism.


===============================================


John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You were unable to explain the plain verse away. The verse in no way says 'believe only and thou are a son of God' for belief apart from repentance, confession and baptism cannot save, (Lk 13:3; Mt 10:32-33; Mk 16:16). Belief alone cannot save the impenitent, cannot save those who will not confess Christ nor save those who reject the Gospel of Christ by not being water baptized (Acts 2:41). Believing gives one the power to repent, confess and be baptized for for unbelief prevents the unbeliever/atheist from repenting, confessing Christ and being water baptized for remission of sins.

The word "become" (ginomai) means:
--to come into existence,
--to become, i.e. to come to pass

Being a child of God comes to pass, comes into existence not until one first believes then uses the power of belief to repent, confess and be baptized. .......'as many as received (past tense - believed) Him ....those who ALREADY believe now have the power to become (using the power belief gives to repent confess be baptized) the son of God. Note the verse is speaking of those who already (past tense) believe but can 'become', not yet come to pass in being sons of God but now possess the power belief gives in order to become sons of God.

No matter how hard you may try, you can NEVER have an impenitent person who refused to confess Christ and refuses to obey the gospel of Christ (2 Thess 1:8) a son of God.


=====================================================

Acts 10, Cornelius being baptized with the HS had nothing to do with his perosonal salvation. In giving Peter and vision that Gentiles were "clean" and baptizing Cornelius with the HS, God was using Cornelius as a medium to prove to the Jews the Gentiles were in fact clean and salvation was also to go to them, salvation was not just for the Jew. After the Lord baptized Cornelius with the HS, Peter did NOT says "Cornelius being baptized with the HS proves he is saved so he does not have to be water baptized". instead Peter COMMANDED water baptism proving Cornelius was not saved, something was lacking in his being saved and that was being water baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sins. The fact water baptism is commanded makes it necessary to salvation if for no other reason.

Again, from Acts 2:41 being water baptized is receiving the gospel word and rejecting water baptism is rejecting the gospel word. Therefore AFTER Cornelius was water baptized it is said Acts 11:1 "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." It only thru water baptism God's word is received, NOT by being baptized with the HS.

I see it like this:

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You posted "One needs grace first before they can obey or do a work."
You are espousing a teaching of man here and not a teaching of Christ.

No verse says one must be given grace before one is able to obey. The Bible shows the exact opposite in that one must first obey before receiving grace. No verse says the disobedient, unrighteous, wicked UNconditionally receive grace then some time later they can obey. This idea of yours would have God being culpable for the disobedient and showing respect of persons as to whom God gives grace and withholds grace.

OBEDIENCE is the basis as to who receives grace and who will not. As far back as the OT, God's predetermined course of action is to show mercy to the obedient and no mercy for the disobedient, Jer 18:8-10. Pharaoh disobeyed God = no mercy. King of Nineveh obeyed = God showed mercy.

1) Noah built the ark (obedience) >>>>>>>> >>>> saved from flood (grace)
2) Naaman dipped 7 times (obedience)>>>>>>>>> healed of disease (grace)
3) Israel march around Jericho (obedience) >>>>>> received city (grace)

In the NT, it those who obey that receive grace:

Rom 6:16 ----obedience (obey) >>>>>>>>>>> unto righteousness/saved (grace)
Jn 3:3,5----- born again (obedience) >>>>>>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Matt 7:21----do the will of God (obedience) >>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Mk 16:16---believe & baptized (obedience) >>>> saved (grace)
Jn 3:16 -----believeth (obedience) >>>>>>>>> saved
Acts 2:38 ---repent & baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> remission of sins/saved (grace)
Rom 10:9---confess w/mouth (obedience) >>>>> saved (grace)
Rom 6:17-18--obeyed from heart (obedience) >>> justified (grace)

I can cite many more verses but these should suffice to prove that receiving grace is NOT UNconditional but is 100% totally conditional upon obedience to the will of God.

Therefore there is not one verse in the NT that teaches salvation apart from obedience:

-- obedience is not a work of merit. In all the examples I cited above, both OT and NT examples, obedience is never called a work of merit.

-- Eph 2:8; Rom 4:3-5; Tts 3:5 eliminate works of merit works of the OT law but no verse eliminate obedience. Again, NO VERSE teaches the disobedient/wicked/unrighteous UNconditionally receive grace.

============================================
You posted about calling on the name of the Lord.

"Calling on the name of the Lord" does NOT mean I can just call out to Christ to save me while I disobey Christ's will by doing nothing. Lk 6:46 why call ye Me Lord, Lord and DO NOT the things which I say? It is the wise man that "heareth AND DOETH" and it is the foolish man that heareth and doeth NOT, (Mt 7:24ff). Therefore calling on the name of the Lord means to do what the Lord says to do. Peter quoted Joel's prophecy in Acts 2:21 and that prophecy fulfilled in v38:

Call upon the name of the Lord >>>>>>>>>>>> saved
repent and be baptized >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> saved/remission of sins

Paul/Saul in Acts 22:16 was calling upon the name of the Lord when he arose and was baptized.

Acts 2:41
"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized.."
This means those who rejected Peter's gospel words rejected baptism. The logical conclusion is rejecting water baptism is rejecting Christ's gospel, being water baptized is accepting Christ's gospel.


2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

--the logical implication of this verse is that it requires one to OBEY to not be in flaming fire...another death knell to Luther's faith onlyism.
--one therefore MUST 'obey the gospel of Christ' to not be in flaming fire.
--the gospel is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Cor 15:1-4)
--in water baptism (Rom 6) one dies to sin, the old man of sin DIES, one is BURIED in a watery grave from which one is "raised up from", hence there is a death burial and resurrection (obeying the gospel) in water baptism. This death burial and resurrection does not take place anywhere in the NT with belief only or saying a sinner's prayer nor some with "spirit" baptism.


===============================================


John 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You were unable to explain the plain verse away. The verse in no way says 'believe only and thou are a son of God' for belief apart from repentance, confession and baptism cannot save, (Lk 13:3; Mt 10:32-33; Mk 16:16). Belief alone cannot save the impenitent, cannot save those who will not confess Christ nor save those who reject the Gospel of Christ by not being water baptized (Acts 2:41). Believing gives one the power to repent, confess and be baptized for for unbelief prevents the unbeliever/atheist from repenting, confessing Christ and being water baptized for remission of sins.

The word "become" (ginomai) means:
--to come into existence,
--to become, i.e. to come to pass

Being a child of God comes to pass, comes into existence not until one first believes then uses the power of belief to repent, confess and be baptized. .......'as many as received (past tense - believed) Him ....those who ALREADY believe now have the power to become (using the power belief gives to repent confess be baptized) the son of God. Note the verse is speaking of those who already (past tense) believe but can 'become', not yet come to pass in being sons of God but now possess the power belief gives in order to become sons of God.

No matter how hard you may try, you can NEVER have an impenitent person who refused to confess Christ and refuses to obey the gospel of Christ (2 Thess 1:8) a son of God.


=====================================================

Acts 10, Cornelius being baptized with the HS had nothing to do with his perosonal salvation. In giving Peter and vision that Gentiles were "clean" and baptizing Cornelius with the HS, God was using Cornelius as a medium to prove to the Jews the Gentiles were in fact clean and salvation was also to go to them, salvation was not just for the Jew. After the Lord baptized Cornelius with the HS, Peter did NOT says "Cornelius being baptized with the HS proves he is saved so he does not have to be water baptized". instead Peter COMMANDED water baptism proving Cornelius was not saved, something was lacking in his being saved and that was being water baptized in the name of the Lord for remission of sins. The fact water baptism is commanded makes it necessary to salvation if for no other reason.

Again, from Acts 2:41 being water baptized is receiving the gospel word and rejecting water baptism is rejecting the gospel word. Therefore AFTER Cornelius was water baptized it is said Acts 11:1 "And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." It only thru water baptism God's word is received, NOT by being baptized with the HS.

Also consider that 1 Corinthians 15:10 teaches that grace gives us the ability to do the work, as well.

1 Corinthians 15:10 (KJB)

“But by the grace of God I am what I am:
and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain;
but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I,
but the grace of God which was with me.” ​

It's why the one woman kept kissing Jesus' feet and washed His feet with her tears (See: Luke 7:36-50). Jesus basically said she loved much because she was forgiven much. That's grace! Grace moves us do the work (which in some cases it is just natural for us to do works of faith done in love - Galatians 5:6).

Side Note:

Anyways, I believed the Bible taught two aspects of salvation long before I discovered there was a theological name for it. The official theological term for it is called...

“Initial Salvation, and Final Salvation.”

I prefer saying we are saved first by God's grace initially through faith (a belief) (Which is a process of salvation without works) (Ephesians 2:8-9), and we then continue in the faith in the secondary aspect of salvation called the Sanctification of the Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:13). The Sanctification of the Spirit involves us purifying ourselves to live a holy life by faith. This can only be a reality after we are first saved by God's grace.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1) Noah built the ark (obedience) >>>>>>>> >>>> saved from flood (grace)
2) Naaman dipped 7 times (obedience)>>>>>>>>> healed of disease (grace)
3) Israel march around Jericho (obedience) >>>>>> received city (grace)

In the NT, it those who obey that receive grace:

Rom 6:16 ----obedience (obey) >>>>>>>>>>> unto righteousness/saved (grace)
Jn 3:3,5----- born again (obedience) >>>>>>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Matt 7:21----do the will of God (obedience) >>>> enter the kingdom/saved (grace)
Mk 16:16---believe & baptized (obedience) >>>> saved (grace)
Jn 3:16 -----believeth (obedience) >>>>>>>>> saved
Acts 2:38 ---repent & baptized >>>>>>>>>>>> remission of sins/saved (grace)
Rom 10:9---confess w/mouth (obedience) >>>>> saved (grace)
Rom 6:17-18--obeyed from heart (obedience) >>> justified (grace)

No offense, but this is how I see your approach here:

I think you are confusing situations of God delivering His people because of their faithfulness to God vs. God's grace.

Grace is unmerited favor. While I believe the atonement continues to be applied by our continued faithfulness (1 John 1:7), I don't believe that our receiving the atonement was based upon us doing a laborious action or work. Christ died for us while we were yet sinners (Romans 5:8). Cornelius was able to receive the Spirit before he was water baptized (See Acts 10), and the Spirit is our downpayment of our inheritance of the promise (See: Ephesians 1:14-16). I did not have to be water baptized to be initially saved by God's grace through faith. I believe water baptism is something that follows after we are saved initially by God's grace. Baptism is what we must do as a part of our living out our faith (Which can be in the same day or at a later point in time). Paul said to just believe on Jesus for salvation to the jailor. Yes, he was later baptized but that is not what he told him to do so as to be saved. Also, Paul makes a distinction between the gospel, and baptism in 1 Corinthians 1:17. So they are not the same thing (if that is what you are suggesting). The belief we are to have in our Initial Salvation is compared to the belief that Abraham had when he believed the promise of God on his descendants being like the stars of the sky (See: Romans 4 and Genesis 15:1-6). This belief was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. For the promise of inheritance came not by the Law of Moses but by the promise of Abraham by faith (Romans 4:13-14) (Galatians 3:18). Do you have the same faith like that of Abraham? The faith that was accounted to him for righteousness was believing the promise.