Who is right ?

[Lambano]

We interpret the Bible through the lenses and filters of our own experiences, our own reasoning, and the ecclesiastical traditions we grew up with.

And to preempt the usual claim, "Well, that's human reasoning; you have to be led by the Holy Spirit!", I counter by pointing out that some folks who claim their Biblical understanding is led by the Holy Spirit end up contradicting others who claim their understanding of the Bible is led the Holy Spirit, so you'll pardon me if I'm a little cynical about that claim.

 

[Enoch111]

The answer is obviously, "I am", and if ya'll would just read, interpret, and prioritize the way I read and interpret the Bible, the problem would go away.

There's nothing wrong with being positive about one's beliefs. Christians do not have to dither around.

 

[Lambano]

There's nothing wrong with being positive about one's beliefs. Christians do not have to dither around.

And I will continue to tell people what I believe and why I believe it.

One of my Bible teachers used to say (half jokingly, but with a point): "Look, half of what I just taught you is probably wrong; I just don't know which half."

Yeah, I could be wrong. This is why "trust" is more important than "belief". Which better defines my brothers and sisters, what they believe, or whom they trust? And if these are my brothers and sisters, then I need to keep my temper and tongue under control.

A little humility goes a long way.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No to answer a fool
Then NOT to answer a fool.
I'm talking with the squabbles and corrections the fact THAT WE ALL SAY EACH OTHER ARE WRONG UNLESS YOU BELIEVE LIKE MY GROUP OF REAL FIRST CHRISTIANS!

Oh. okay. Didn’t think my explanation on the verse was any good, huh? That’s okay. I stand by it though.
Everyone believes different in some ways. But that’s not the core problem. If the minds of each of us are in process of being renewed to think like Jesus does, then we are all somewhere within that renewing and we just WILL have differences because being renewed and fully renewed aren’t the same thing.
So that can’t be what the core problem really is with nasty squabbles.

The problem is the flesh/arrogance/nastiness of one man stirring up the flesh of another man so that he answers in the same foolish/arrogant fleshy way the first man is speaking in.
THAT is the “never” do part of the verse.
Never answer a fool according to that kind of folly he is talking in or you become as foolish as him.

But then it’s not as simple as that because it’s not a quick fix when both men are still carnal. So first has to come the realization that I am the problem (and so is that other man). We are both in the same flesh boat. Yet I come to desperately want to not be part of the problem, which is hungering for true righteousness inside me. So trust (faith) must lead to hope in the promise that those who hunger for that true righteousness WILL be filled. I say I believe it but do I ASK for it (you don’t have because you don’t ask). And do I fail to ask for it because I have become convinced, as others say, that it cannot happen until I die and I must be content with only a “positional” righteousness while here on earth?

So I can see that, at the very least, the problem goes on because my lack of trust has led to not hoping in the promise that I can and will be filled.

The verse says, Until we all come to, #1, the unity of the faith (trust) that can move mountains and, #2, the knowledge of Jesus.
Trust and hope is first. We are to come to unity of trust in such promises that we’ve been given.
But we’ve been led to try to tackle #2 without first tackling #1, so we struggle to come to unity of the knowledge of Jesus without the trust first needed to GET us there.

Faith leads to hope in all the promises which leads to fulfillment in you of those promises which will lead to His love in us manifesting forth.
These three remain - trust, hope, love. They work in an order.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Never answer a fool according to his folly
Always answer a fool according to His folly

No man has seen God at any time - no man may see God and live.
I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Thank you Grace, a point blank example, I salute you. So since you and I both believe God exists, and that the Bible is His word, we have to realize that He don't make mistakes, it has to be our understanding of what is being stated, correct? So lets look for an explanation why these do not actually contradict each other.

You likely realize that much of the book of Proverbs is contrasts, correct? But they are in the Bible for us to learn from. So why does this contrast, seem to contradict itself? What does it mean for the reader? The faithful slave comments: Answering a fool in harmony with or “according to his foolishness” in the sense of resorting to his degrading methods of argument puts the one so doing in agreement with the fool’s unsound reasonings or ways. In order not to become like the fool in this respect, we are counseled by the proverb: “Do not answer anyone stupid according to his foolishness.” On the other hand, Proverbs 26:4, 5 shows that answering him “according to his foolishness” in the sense of analyzing his contentions, exposing them as being ridiculous, and showing that his own arguments lead to entirely different conclusions from those he has drawn can be beneficial.

Do you feel that is an accurate synopsis of what is being said Grace?

Now the second one might be more difficult, you are absolutely correct, John stated very clearly that no man has seen God at any time, and since we believe that the Bible is God's word, then how can we justify I have seen God face to face? The whole account tells us that Jacob seen a man, and he wrestled with him all night, this man fought with Jacob all night long, and Jacob insisted on a blessing, and this man changed Jacobs name to Israel, why? The account clearly stated he contended with God. So obviously then, was he literally wrestling with God Himself? Notice where this is stated in another place in the Bible, look at this verse: (Hosea 12:2-4) . . .Jehovah has a legal case against Judah; He will call for an accounting against Jacob according to his ways, And he will repay him according to his deeds. 3 In the womb he seized his brother by the heel, And with his vigor he contended with God. 4 He kept contending with an angel and prevailed. He wept and begged for his favor.”. . .

Thankfully Hosea clarified the account for us Grace, the "man" who identified himself as God, was actually an angel sent from God to God's servant Jacob. Researching seeming contradictions can be fun, and when we find the answers, not only does it increase our knowledge, but it strengthens our faith as well. Thanks again for allowing me to put in my 2 cents worth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Thank you Grace, a point blank example, I salute you. So since you and I both believe God exists, and that the Bible is His word, we have to realize that He don't make mistakes, it has to be our understanding of what is being stated, correct? So lets look for an explanation why these do not actually contradict each other.

You likely realize that much of the book of Proverbs is contrasts, correct? But they are in the Bible for us to learn from. So why does this contrast, seem to contradict itself? What does it mean for the reader? The faithful slave comments: Answering a fool in harmony with or “according to his foolishness” in the sense of resorting to his degrading methods of argument puts the one so doing in agreement with the fool’s unsound reasonings or ways. In order not to become like the fool in this respect, we are counseled by the proverb: “Do not answer anyone stupid according to his foolishness.” On the other hand, Proverbs 26:4, 5 shows that answering him “according to his foolishness” in the sense of analyzing his contentions, exposing them as being ridiculous, and showing that his own arguments lead to entirely different conclusions from those he has drawn can be beneficial.

Do you feel that is an accurate synopsis of what is being said Grace?

Now the second one might be more difficult, you are absolutely correct, John stated very clearly that no man has seen God at any time, and since we believe that the Bible is God's word, then how can we justify I have seen God face to face? The whole account tells us that Jacob seen a man, and he wrestled with him all night, this man fought with Jacob all night long, and Jacob insisted on a blessing, and this man changed Jacobs name to Israel, why? The account clearly stated he contended with God. So obviously then, was he literally wrestling with God Himself? Notice where this is stated in another place in the Bible, look at this verse: (Hosea 12:2-4) . . .Jehovah has a legal case against Judah; He will call for an accounting against Jacob according to his ways, And he will repay him according to his deeds. 3 In the womb he seized his brother by the heel, And with his vigor he contended with God. 4 He kept contending with an angel and prevailed. He wept and begged for his favor.”. . .

Thankfully Hosea clarified the account for us Grace, the "man" who identified himself as God, was actually an angel sent from God to God's servant Jacob. Researching seeming contradictions can be fun, and when we find the answers, not only does it increase our knowledge, but it strengthens our faith as well. Thanks again for allowing me to put in my 2 cents worth.

For the first, yes, I agree. I think you explained it well and it’s the same understanding God has brought me to on it. And I’m sure there’s even MORE He has to reveal on it.

In your second explanation, I have seen that angel of the Lord was/is Jesus. He IS the ladder that man saw. God manifest in flesh CAN be looked upon, thank goodness, and He was there and could be seen even BEFORE He manifested in flesh. Through Jesus we can see God and not die. I don’t know exactly how that is so, I just know it is. And Jesus confirms He was/is that ladder when He says, you will all see the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man.
So anytime a man is said to see or speak with God face to face, or fear he is going to die, I believe it is the angel of the Lord/Jesus/the Ladder/the Door he has seen.

Pretty awesome that God made a way for us to see Him and not die but to live! It comes close to exploding my mind!

 

[BreadOfLife]

SO YOU SAY .
I answer to God and he alone NOT THE RCC.
My faith is in God, his Word and his Spirit without the need of man made doctrine, practices or traditions.
You or any are free to believe a lie and be damned !

First ofall - ehat ids "RCC"??
I belong to the Catholpic Church - the Church buikt by Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) amd NOT by men, like every Protestant faction. EVERY ONE of those is a Tradition pof MEN. "Roman" simply refers to ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites that exist in the Catholic Church. Byzantine Catholics, Melkite Catholics, Maronite Catholics, Coptic Catholics and several others are not "Roman" Catholics. Do your homework . . .

Secondly - WHY do you keep ignoring thd elephant in the room?
I asked you how you reconcile fact that OU adhere to a Biblivcal Canon that was declared by the Catholic Church - the SAME Chiurch that YOU call, "PAGAN"?
WHO told your Protestant Fathers that t was the Word of God?

If you hate the Catholic Church - that's YOUR problerm.
BUT - if you're dishonest about WHY - then I'll expose you.

PS - don't feel too bad that you can't answer my question.
Not a SINGLE non-Catholic here has been able to answer it . . .

 

[amigo de christo]

To my friends and all that breathes air , Follow not pope francis and his all inclusive ten commandment we are one world LIE from hades .

 

[Cassandra]

For the first, yes, I agree. I think you explained it well and it’s the same understanding God has brought me to on it. And I’m sure there’s even MORE He has to reveal on it.

In your second explanation, I have seen that angel of the Lord was/is Jesus. He IS the ladder that man saw. God manifest in flesh CAN be looked upon, thank goodness, and He was there and could be seen even BEFORE He manifested in flesh. Through Jesus we can see God and not die. I don’t know exactly how that is so, I just know it is. And Jesus confirms He was/is that ladder when He says, you will all see the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man.
So anytime a man is said to see or speak with God face to face, or fear he is going to die, I believe it is the angel of the Lord/Jesus/the Ladder/the Door he has seen.

Pretty awesome that God made a way for us to see Him and not die but to live! It comes close to exploding my mind!

I believe this about Jesus , too.

 

[Pearl]

Strange or unauthorised fire - I was thinking last night about one of the threads on the site about fakes and counterfeits and I thought of the men and women of God of old who carried the true fire and passed it on down through the generations - men like Spurgeon, Tozer, Wigglesworth and their like. That true flame still burns brightly.

But there are also those like Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, Ellen G White and others as well as those who were active in establishing the Catholic church who have carried unauthorized fire.

As these verses say those who follow their false teaching have no inheritance.

Numbers 26:60-62 NIV
Aaron was the father of Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar. But Nadab and Abihu died when they made an offering before the Lord with unauthorized fire.)
All the male Levites a month old or more numbered 23,000. They were not counted along with the other Israelites because they received no inheritance among them.

Numbers 26:60-62 KJV
And unto Aaron was born Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the Lord.
And those that were numbered of them were twenty and three thousand, all males from a month old and upward: for they were not numbered among the children of Israel, because there was no inheritance given them among the children of Israel.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm…I feel as though that might be somewhat directed toward me and what I have said across two threads…

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Strange or unauthorised fire - I was thinking last night about one of the threads on the site about fakes and counterfeits and I thought of the men and women of God of old who carried the true fire and passed it on down through the generations - men like Spurgeon, Tozer, Wigglesworth and their like. That true flame still burns brightly.

But there are also those like Charles Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, Ellen G White and others as well as those who were active in establishing the Catholic church who have carried unauthorized fire.

As these verses say those who follow their false teaching have no inheritance.

Numbers 26:60-62 NIV
Aaron was the father of Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar. But Nadab and Abihu died when they made an offering before the Lord with unauthorized fire.)
All the male Levites a month old or more numbered 23,000. They were not counted along with the other Israelites because they received no inheritance among them.

Numbers 26:60-62 KJV
And unto Aaron was born Nadab, and Abihu, Eleazar, and Ithamar.
And Nadab and Abihu died, when they offered strange fire before the Lord.
And those that were numbered of them were twenty and three thousand, all males from a month old and upward: for they were not numbered among the children of Israel, because there was no inheritance given them among the children of Israel.

They didn’t have an inheritance, none of the priestly line did. It wasn’t just the two sons, none of them did. It wasn’t that those two lost an inheritance they had. They did something that did not properly handle Gods holiness. Like Uzzah.

In righteousness and learning righteousness, you get a lot of chances to stumble and get back up.
But in holiness, one strike and your fired from out of holiness.

 

[Pearl]

Hmm…I feel as though that might be somewhat directed toward me and what I have said…

Really? You mean my post? Not at all, I hadn't even been following you when I first posted this. It was something God showed me a couple of nights ago.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Really? You mean my post? Not at all, I hadn't even been following you when I first posted this. It was something God showed me a couple of nights ago.

Well, you brought it into here for a reason.

 

[Pearl]

Well, you brought it into here for a reason.

I put it here because it seemed a good place to put it. But it wasn't aimed at you because I honestly didn't even know you were in one of the groups I mentioned.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hmm…okay then.
You didn’t perceive any of that strange fire/false teaching in here to make you want to bring the post in here, it just suddenly occurred to you, apropos of nothing in here, that you might want to post it in here.

Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Pearl]

Hmm…okay then.
You didn’t perceive any of that strange fire/false teaching in here to make you want to bring the post in here, it just suddenly occurred to you, apropos of nothing in here, that you might want to post it in here.

Thanks for clearing that up.

No! Absolutely not, it came to me after a conversation I had with my husband couple of nights ago.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

No! Absolutely not, it came to me after a conversation I had with my husband couple of nights ago.

It doesn’t matter when it came to you. You decided to repost it in HERE for a reason.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

First ofall - ehat ids "RCC"??
I belong to the Catholpic Church - the Church buikt by Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) amd NOT by men, like every Protestant faction. EVERY ONE of those is a Tradition pof MEN. "Roman" simply refers to ONE of about TWENTY Liturgical Rites that exist in the Catholic Church. Byzantine Catholics, Melkite Catholics, Maronite Catholics, Coptic Catholics and several others are not "Roman" Catholics. Do your homework . . .

Secondly - WHY do you keep ignoring thd elephant in the room?
I asked you how you reconcile fact that OU adhere to a Biblivcal Canon that was declared by the Catholic Church - the SAME Chiurch that YOU call, "PAGAN"?
WHO told your Protestant Fathers that t was the Word of God?

If you hate the Catholic Church - that's YOUR problerm.
BUT - if you're dishonest about WHY - then I'll expose you.

PS - don't feel too bad that you can't answer my question.
Not a SINGLE non-Catholic here has been able to answer it . . .

Lol what tomfoolery.
You can't expose anything but my love for God the belief I have in his word and the Words I write here.
Oh I guess next you will perform an exorcism of this site and expose us all.

The devil has deceived many many ppl through false institutions, but the judge is God Almighty !

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The devil has deceived many many ppl through false institutions, but the judge is God Almighty !

Truth!