Jesus was made Lord and Christ at His resurrection

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robert derrick

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I'm not confusing anything, I am sticking to the written Word of God.

Hebrews 2 reveals that Christ being born in the flesh for suffering is what the idea of being made a little lower than the angels is about.. You trying to twist that is blasphemy against The Word of God...

Heb 2:9
9 But we see Jesus,
Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
KJV
Man is made a little lower than the angels, by being made mortal flesh, even as Jesus was of the seed of Abraham.

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


He was made flesh as all men, that He might suffer for sins. But being made flesh is what makes all men made a little lower than the angels, who only have spiritual bodies.

The nature of angel's bodies is spiritual, while the nature of man's flesh is mortal.

The other matter is something you don't want to know what I am talking about.

So end of discussion.
 

robert derrick

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Jesus of Nazareth did not have to EARN His position as The Christ through baptism like you are trying to deceive others here into believing!

And I will say again as before, Lord Jesus was The Christ before... He was born in the flesh through woman, and was The Christ during His Ministry on earth, and still is The Christ today!

The idea that Jesus was NOT The Christ until He was baptized is an idea pushed by Occultists. And I explained 'how' they view that term 'Christ' as a cosmic force and not a title ONLY for Jesus Christ like God with us (Matthew 1:23).
Once again. You have a personal problem, that only wants to twist what others say.

I have already corrected your misreading, and now I must just reject your purposed effort to.

End of discussion.
 

Davy

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It is very relevant Davy, those who do not know God, get destroyed, that was my point which you overlooked. Best worship and serve the God of Jesus as he instructed. It is that knowing them that puts us on the road to everlasting life sir Jn 17:3
I can read and I know what the Scripture said that you quoted, and it has NOTHING to do with any support of your THEORY that Jesus is not God come in the flesh! That was supposed to be the reason you posted that.
 

Davy

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Man is made a little lower than the angels, by being made mortal flesh, even as Jesus was of the seed of Abraham.

For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


He was made flesh as all men, that He might suffer for sins. But being made flesh is what makes all men made a little lower than the angels, who only have spiritual bodies.

The nature of angel's bodies is spiritual, while the nature of man's flesh is mortal.

The other matter is something you don't want to know what I am talking about.

So end of discussion.
"... a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, ...".

Don't you understand what that means?

It means Lord Jesus Christ was born in the flesh ONLY for the cause of "suffering of death" upon His cross, so as to what? So as to offer those who believe Eternal Life through His Blood!

That DOES NOT mean Jesus Himself was ever... created, nor stopped being God. The Matthew 1:23 verse even testifies that Jesus was still God come in the flesh!

Once again, the Jew's religion has trapped your mind, because the orthodox Jew has major problems trying to understand the difference between our 'spirit' and our 'flesh', which are two totally separate and independent operations.

John 3:6
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
KJV
 
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Davy

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Once again. You have a personal problem, that only wants to twist what others say.
I haven't twisted anything you've said. What is twisted is in your mind showing you are confused, and I know why. It is because you are listening to men's false doctrines instead of heeding what God's Word says as written. The problem is your having left the Word of God.

Here is where those men you listen to actually are in 'their' understanding. They cannot understand God's Word because He didn't give His Word to them. Thus they cannot 'hear' His Word.

John 8:43
43 Why do ye not understand My speech? even because ye cannot hear My word.
KJV
 
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keithr

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Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

This looks to me to be speaking of Jesus after His resurrection, which is when Peter is speaking to them that crucified Him.
That verse doesn't say anything in relation to Jesus' resurrection; it just says that it was God who made Jesus to be our Lord, and made Jesus the Messiah, i.e. it was God who anointed Jesus to become our saviour and our king. Just prior to this, in Acts 2:31, Peter said:

(31) He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.​

So Peter was referring to Jesus as Christ before his resurrection. Remember that Jesus asked his disciples who they thought he was, and Peter replied, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matthew 16:16). From early in his ministry his disciples would have known that Jesus was the Messiah, because:

Luke 4:41 (WEB):
(41) And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.​

The more important thing is to recognise that Jesus was God's only begotten son:

John 3:16 (KJV):
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

1 John 4:15 (WEB):
(15) Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.​

According to Paul, Jesus' resurrection declares that Jesus was (before his resurrection) the Messiah and the Son of God. Romans 1:3-4 (WEB):

(3) concerning his Son, who was born of the offspring of David according to the flesh,​
(4) who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,​

Without believing in His resurrection, we cannot be believing Him as Lord and Christ and Savior.
More to the point, if we don't believe in his resurrection then Jesus can't be our Lord, because he would still be dead! :Broadly:
 

CadyandZoe

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Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

This looks to me to be speaking of Jesus after His resurrection, which is when Peter is speaking to them that crucified Him.

I say the significance of this, is that by His resurrection He is now made both Lord and Christ for the whole world, and not just the Jews and born children of Israel after the flesh.

We know He was already both Lord and Christ in the flesh, because Scripture says Jesus Christ came in the flesh, and not just a man called Jesus.

Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

He was born king of the Jews in being made flesh, but He is now made Lord and Kind for all the earth, by His resurrection.

I believe this is another reason for the importance of believing in His resurrection, otherwise, He would have been Lord and Christ for the Jews only, and not for the rest of us.

Jesus is made by God both Lord and Christ for our good, and not for our dominion only, because He is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world, and not for the Jews only.

Without believing in His resurrection, we cannot be believing Him as Lord and Christ and Savior.

Otherwise, He would remain a past Jew, that claimed to be a born king of Israel from the house of David. He would be just another Jew claiming to be messiah.
You are partially correct. In his epistle to the Romans Paul asserts that the Resurrection "proved" that Jesus is indeed Lord and Christ. Until then, it stood as a possibility. Of course, he was both Lord and Christ before the Resurrection and his miracles attested to that fact. But the ultimate proof was the Resurrection.

[Jesus Christ} was declared the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead." Romans 1:4

Since the Father raised him from the dead, it was the Father himself, who declared that Jesus is indeed the Christ, the Son of God.
 

CadyandZoe

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Nah, Jesus was The Christ even before... He was born in the flesh, the same yesterday, today, and forever.

The idea that He had to become... The Christ is an esoteric Occult thought...

The Occultists teach that the "Christ Spirit" is like a force that anyone can attune to and become like Christ. Some of them even use a term like, "Christ Consciousness". They falsely claim Buddha had it, Mohammed had it, Krishna had it, etc. And that YOU can get it.

What that kind of stupidity actually is saying is the SAME TEMPTATION that old serpent did upon Eve in God's Garden of Eden, that if you eat of the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden, you'll become your own god.
The simplicity of God is not a trait shared by the son who "grew in wisdom."
 

Robert Gwin

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I can read and I know what the Scripture said that you quoted, and it has NOTHING to do with any support of your THEORY that Jesus is not God come in the flesh! That was supposed to be the reason you posted that.
If Jesus is God, then why did he promote another God Davy? Wouldn't that make him a deceiver sir?
 

CadyandZoe

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Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


Jesus was Christ come in the flesh, not made Christ afterward, which is to deny Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.

Jesus Christ was born in the flesh and baptized with the Holy Ghost.
I think you may have misunderstood @Robert Gwin's point earlier. He wasn't teaching Docetism; he was merely reflecting on the meaning of the term "Christ", which is translated from the Greek "christos", which literally means "anointed."

Typically priests, prophets, and kings were anointed with oil, which signified that the anointed man was chosen of God for a consecrated purpose. Sometimes the anointing oil was poured on the head, other times it was sprinkled on a person. And typically, the anointing of oil signified what God had already decided as was the case for David the King. God already decided to make David the King of Israel before Samuel put the oil on David. 1 Samuel 16:13. God's decision comes first, then the oil is applied.

In the case of Jesus, God already decided to appoint Jesus to be the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed. All of these terms are synonymous. They all refer to the one whom God decided to sanctify for a holy purpose. John the Baptist knew that God had appointed Jesus to be the messiah, because he was given a sign whereby he might know this for sure. John 1:33-34.

Here again we see a case where God had already made the decision with regard to Jesus, He was already God's anointed (the Christ} before the baptism of John, but God himself testified to that fact by having the Holy Spirit land on Jesus during his baptism, which was the signal event predicted by the angel in advance.

And in this way, one might say, that Jesus was "made" to be the Christ at that time. And by "made" we mean "identified" because until then, no one knew that Jesus was God's anointed except the angels, John the Baptist and a few shepherds.

According to the Apostle John, there were three different times that the Father declared Jesus to be the Christ, the son of God. 1 John 1:7-9.
 

Robert Gwin

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I think you may have misunderstood @Robert Gwin's point earlier. He wasn't teaching Docetism; he was merely reflecting on the meaning of the term "Christ", which is translated from the Greek "christos", which literally means "anointed."

Typically priests, prophets, and kings were anointed with oil, which signified that the anointed man was chosen of God for a consecrated purpose. Sometimes the anointing oil was poured on the head, other times it was sprinkled on a person. And typically, the anointing of oil signified what God had already decided as was the case for David the King. God already decided to make David the King of Israel before Samuel put the oil on David. 1 Samuel 16:13. God's decision comes first, then the oil is applied.

In the case of Jesus, God already decided to appoint Jesus to be the Messiah, the Christ, the Anointed. All of these terms are synonymous. They all refer to the one whom God decided to sanctify for a holy purpose. John the Baptist knew that God had appointed Jesus to be the messiah, because he was given a sign whereby he might know this for sure. John 1:33-34.

Here again we see a case where God had already made the decision with regard to Jesus, He was already God's anointed (the Christ} before the baptism of John, but God himself testified to that fact by having the Holy Spirit land on Jesus during his baptism, which was the signal event predicted by the angel in advance.

And in this way, one might say, that Jesus was "made" to be the Christ at that time. And by "made" we mean "identified" because until then, no one knew that Jesus was God's anointed except the angels, John the Baptist and a few shepherds.

According to the Apostle John, there were three different times that the Father declared Jesus to be the Christ, the son of God. 1 John 1:7-9.
Thanks Cady and Zoe for explaining my words to a clearer extent, it is appreciated.
 
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Davy

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If Jesus is God, then why did he promote another God Davy? Wouldn't that make him a deceiver sir?
Change the subject much when you lose an argument?

The JW organization is deceiving you. I well know they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is God, but instead they wrongly believe Jesus is a created Archangel, the Archangel Michael even!

No need for you to 'try'... and push that Jehovah Witness falsehood here, there's too many here that know Jesus as the Archangel Michael is a falsehood.
 

Robert Gwin

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Change the subject much when you lose an argument?

The JW organization is deceiving you. I well know they do not believe Jesus of Nazareth is God, but instead they wrongly believe Jesus is a created Archangel, the Archangel Michael even!

No need for you to 'try'... and push that Jehovah Witness falsehood here, there's too many here that know Jesus as the Archangel Michael is a falsehood.
No shame in not remembering the path of the conversation Davy, heck I forget too and have to go back, perhaps you are unfamiliar with how to track the previous conversation. Right next to my name when you call it up, there will be a blue insignia, that is the back arrow sir, click on it and it will take you to the last post. I didn't know about that myself until someone showed me.
 

Davy

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No shame in not remembering the path of the conversation Davy, heck I forget too and have to go back, perhaps you are unfamiliar with how to track the previous conversation. Right next to my name when you call it up, there will be a blue insignia, that is the back arrow sir, click on it and it will take you to the last post. I didn't know about that myself until someone showed me.
You must be talking about yourself, because I certainly have NOT lost track of our conversation.

You don't believe Lord Jesus Christ is God The Son, but I do and I'm following the actual Bible Scripture as proof and you are not. That's what our conversation has been about.
 

Robert Gwin

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You must be talking about yourself, because I certainly have NOT lost track of our conversation.

You don't believe Lord Jesus Christ is God The Son, but I do and I'm following the actual Bible Scripture as proof and you are not. That's what our conversation has been about.
Of course I don't believe that, why would I? Who did Jesus say God is Davy?
 

Davy

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Of course I don't believe that, why would I? Who did Jesus say God is Davy?
You are incorrigible with God's Word, which means unregenerate and rebellious against God's written Word.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."

9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip?
he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father'?"
KJV
 

keithr

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You are incorrigible with God's Word, which means unregenerate and rebellious against God's written Word.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."

9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip?
he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father'?"
KJV
That doesn't answer Robert's question. To give more context to the verses that you quoted, Jesus had just said:

(6) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.​
(7) If you had known me, you would have known my Father also. From now on, you know him, and have seen him.”​

meaning that Jesus' character was just like God's, so having known Jesus they also knew what kind of a person God is. The Greek word that's translated as 'know', ginosko, means, according to the Online Bible Greek Lexicon:

1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel​
1a) to become known​
2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of​
2a) to understand​
2b) to know​
3) Jewish idiom for sexual intercourse between a man and a woman
4) to become acquainted with, to know​

The Greek word translated as 'seen', horao, means, according to the Online Bible Greek Lexicon:

1) to see with the eyes​
2) to see with the mind, to perceive, know
3) to see, i.e. become acquainted with by experience, to experience
4) to see, to look to​
4a) to take heed, beware​
4b) to care for, pay heed to​
5) I was seen, showed myself, appeared​

So by getting to know Jesus they had also perceived and experienced what God is like - loving, kind, compassionate, merciful and just.

Jesus then went on to say:

(10) Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? The words that I tell you, I speak not from myself; but the Father who lives in me does his works.
(11) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me; or else believe me for the very works’ sake.​
(12) Most certainly I tell you, he who believes in me, the works that I do, he will do also; and he will do greater works than these, because I am going to my Father.
(13) Whatever you will ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.​

They had come to know God because it was God, Jesus' Father, who was speaking and working through His Son Jesus.

I think this is the answer that Robert was expecting:

John 17:1-8
(1) Jesus said these things, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said, “Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may also glorify you;​
(2) even as you gave him authority over all flesh, so he will give eternal life to all whom you have given him.​
(3) This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.​
(4) I glorified you on the earth. I have accomplished the work which you have given me to do.​
(5) Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.​
(6) I revealed your name to the people whom you have given me out of the world. They were yours, and you have given them to me. They have kept your word.​
(7) Now they have known that all things whatever you have given me are from you,​
(8) for the words which you have given me I have given to them, and they received them, and knew for sure that I came from you, and they have believed that you sent me.​
 
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Robert Gwin

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You are incorrigible with God's Word, which means unregenerate and rebellious against God's written Word.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip saith unto Him, "Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us."

9 Jesus saith unto him, "Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known Me, Philip?
he that hath seen Me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, 'Shew us the Father'?"
KJV
Were they seeing the Father, thus showing contradiction in the Bible Jn 1:18? Or were they able to "see" God through Jesus' conduct? Understanding is the key to interpretation Davy, the Bible never contradicts itself, so if it does, we need to do further examination to understand why it seemingly does.

It is like the saying a chip off the old block, many times we observe traits of fathers in sons, and this is of course the way Jesus meant it. Since he was perfect, without sin, he reflected Jehovah perfectly. Any sinless person could say the same. Keep in mind as well Jesus' words at Jn 4:24. God was not in the flesh during Jesus' time on earth. He resided in heaven, and bore audible testimony that Jesus was His son from heaven sir.