Jesus was made Lord and Christ at His resurrection

[Jim B]

You don't say it, but I get the impression that you think that those verses are not in harmony with the verses I quoted. How do you harmonise Jesus' words that God is in Jesus, Jesus is in Christians, Christians are in Jesus, and Jesus and Christians are in God, and we are all one, with other verses that say that Jesus is God's only begotten Son, and that Jesus refers to our Father as the only true God and as his God?

Do you think that Jesus being in our Father and Jesus and our Father being one means that Jesus is God? In that case when Jesus is praying to God that Christians would be in our Father and be one with Him, that would mean that Jesus was praying that all Christians would become God too. That doesn't make any sense! To harmonise the Scriptures means you have to find an interpretation of all the Scriptures so that they do not contradict each other. In this case, the interpretation of "we are one" and "they may be one" cannot be interpreted to mean that Jesus is God.

Jesus said, Revelation 3:12 (WEB):

(12) He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will go out from there no more. I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.​

So Jesus will have a new name, different from God's name. Our heavenly Father is our God and Jesus' God. Jesus is not God! Just as Paul wrote, "there is one God, the Father, ... and one Lord, Jesus Christ" (1 Cor. 8:6).

That is simply your opinion. I disagree with it. I have a different understanding of what Scripture says. The Bible says that Jesus is God and you disagree. I believe the Bible, not you.

 

[Wrangler]

Not that is what is called an interesting challenge.

The problem is that something being done to someone, is not the same as someone doing something themselves.

Especially when it comes to be created, and being made something after being.

Nice try though.

It's not a nice try; it's an out of the park home run. Jesus is a son, which means a created being. And Scripture specifically says Jesus has a God. This God made Jesus, not merely outright, as all father's make their sons, God made Jesus lord and Savior per Acts 2:36.

 

[Wrangler]

The thing is, while I think it would be nice that God would accept those of all faiths, I know that He only accepts one

I was talking about denominations, not different faiths.

If someone is teaching something contrary to to what God teaches in His word, especially if they know it is false, why do you think God would forgive them?

It's no different than the problem of sin, generally.

 

[Jim B]

It's not a nice try; it's an out of the park home run. Jesus is a son, which means a created being. And Scripture specifically says Jesus has a God. This God made Jesus, not merely outright, as all father's make their sons, God made Jesus lord and Savior per Acts 2:36.

There is nothing that says that Jesus is a created being. John 1:1-3a, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through him, and without him not one thing came into being." This clearly says that Jesus pre-existed creation -- His creation of the universe.

I believe what Scripture clearly says, not any misinterpretation.

 

[Wrangler]

Have we discussed where all these "Christian" faiths originated?

I don't recall. However, I know it is from cultural evolution.

Did I ever tell you the story of my friends' wife from South Korea? He lived in Boston and when she moved there, she went to a Korean Christian Church. I'm certain it was not due to the set of doctrines but her cultural comfort. She was at home culturall there. A devout woman.

 

[keithr]

That is simply your opinion. I disagree with it. I have a different understanding of what Scripture says. The Bible says that Jesus is God and you disagree. I believe the Bible, not you.

The Bible records Jesus saying that the Father alone is God (John 17:3), and when the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be God he denied it and said he was claiming to be God's son (John 10:33-38). Jesus refers to his Father, YHWH, as his God (John 20:17, Revelation 3:12). God's word (the Bible) does not contradict itself. What was the accusation that the Jews had Jesus crucified for? :

Matthew 26:63-65 (WEB):

(63) ... The high priest answered him, “I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.”​

(64) Jesus said to him, “You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, after this you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky.”​

(65) Then the high priest tore his clothing, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Behold, now you have heard his blasphemy.​

You say you believe the Bible, but apparently you don't!

 

[Robert Gwin]

I was talking about denominations, not different faiths.

It's no different than the problem of sin, generally.

My mistake Wrangler, I thought you were referring to different denominations, not congregations of the same faith.

That is what is called apostasy Wangler, and it is a serious sin.
(2 John 9) . . .Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.. . .

 

[Robert Gwin]

I don't recall. However, I know it is from cultural evolution.

Did I ever tell you the story of my friends' wife from South Korea? He lived in Boston and when she moved there, she went to a Korean Christian Church. I'm certain it was not due to the set of doctrines but her cultural comfort. She was at home culturall there. A devout woman.

Christians are from all countries of the earth Wrangler, and are bound by different laws and traditions, but they would never let their individuality and traditions to move them to violate God's laws sir. There are boundaries which we all recognize, one man I spoke of stated to me honestly, he wanted to be just over the edge of salvation, to do what it takes to be just over that line, me personally I was some wiggle room, but I truly appreciated his honesty, and I think most of us truly feel that way if we were honest about it. So as long as we work within those boundaries we will be fine, no matter what style of dress we have etc.

The Bible shows beyond a reasonable doubt where all the "christian" faiths came from. Maybe you are familiar with the apostasy and how it had already started by Johns death, and Jesus stating frankly there would be false christs rise among us: (Matthew 24:24) For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will give great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones.
(1 John 2:18) Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour.

They came out from Christians: (Acts 20:29-30) 29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.
(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons,
(1 John 2:19) They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.

It has been nearly two millenniums of this happening and according to these sources have really escalated more recently:

• World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford University Press, 1982) apparently estimated almost 21,000 denominations, and the updated World Christian Encyclopedia (Barrett, Kurian, Johnson; Oxford Univ Press, 2nd edition, 2001) estimated at least 33,000. “Denomination” is defined as “an organised christian group within a country”.
• The Center for the Study of Global Christianity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary estimated 34,000 denominations in 2000, rising to an estimated 43,000 in 2012. These numbers have exploded from 1,600 in the year 1900.

Whether this is correct or not is irrelevant, the point is when they left the faith, does God accept them? Pretty obvious by the Scriptures posted, and although none of us have absolute truth, their of course is one group that God has, as He has since the first covenant, although we have never been perfect, and He has progressively revealed His truths to that group Pro 4:18; Dan 12:4; Isa 2:2,3 through the faithful slave Mat 24:45-47 He accepts that one group. And yes it is identified beyond any doubt by Scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

That is what is called apostasy Wangler, and it is a serious sin.
(2 John 9) . . .Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God.. . .

Hmmm ... I don't know.

I am certainly a Catholic apostate. And certainly a trinitarian apostate, as I think you could be also. However, I would not say self-identified Christians are apostate, by definition. Rather, I'd say my favorite Al Sharpton quote; they speak the light as far as they have been given the light to see the light.

 

[Wrangler]

the point is when they left the faith, does God accept them?

Proliferating Christian denominations do not leave the faith; they leave congregations or denominations.

A church a friend goes to almost lost a beloved preacher due to staff in-fighting. It is my understanding, during this tumultuous time, he put out feelers to start a new congregation in a different city. No possibility of him leaving Christ. Yes, God accepts them.

I think you want to go down the path of a doctrinal purity test, which Romans 10:9 is about as close as I can find in Scripture.

 

[robert derrick]

God made Jesus lord and Savior per Acts 2:36.

God made the Word, Lord, and Christ, Savior for all the world, when The Word was made flesh, and Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

The Word was God and was never made a god.

We're done here.

If you have other new challenges, you can tell me in private. I'll be glad to respond to them.

 

[marks]

Nah, Jesus was The Christ even before... He was born in the flesh, the same yesterday, today, and forever.

The idea that He had to become... The Christ is an esoteric Occult thought...

The Occultists teach that the "Christ Spirit" is like a force that anyone can attune to and become like Christ. Some of them even use a term like, "Christ Consciousness". They falsely claim Buddha had it, Mohammed had it, Krishna had it, etc. And that YOU can get it.

What that kind of stupidity actually is saying is the SAME TEMPTATION that old serpent did upon Eve in God's Garden of Eden, that if you eat of the forbidden tree in the midst of the garden, you'll become your own god.

That's what I thought before I became a Christian. I thought I was gaining the "Christ consciousness", boy was I ever wrong!!

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

God made the Word, Lord, and Christ, Savior for all the world, when The Word was made flesh, and Jesus Christ came in the flesh.

The Word was God and was never made a god.

We're done here.

With all due respect, you are changing the word of God to fit your doctrine. There is no "when" in Acts 2:36. God made Jesus both lord and Christ. Period. Simple.

God's words are 'of God' and therefore, have his authority, the authority of a god. If you want to speculate as to when, it really has no bearing except that God spoke many words before making Jesus, the word (the word of God) flesh.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Hmmm ... I don't know.

I am certainly a Catholic apostate. And certainly a trinitarian apostate, as I think you could be also. However, I would not say self-identified Christians are apostate, by definition. Rather, I'd say my favorite Al Sharpton quote; they speak the light as far as they have been given the light to see the light.

Of course God only reveals things through His people Wrangler. One simply has to identify who they are and go with them Zech 8:23. I am sure that you believe He has people, I am not sure you believe they are all in one faith however serving Him in unity. While in the Marine Corp and believing God accepted people of all faiths, I did attend a few Catholic meetings on base. We basically had 2 available, and they simply labeled them Protestant and Catholic. We could go to either. My dog tags said no preference under religion. I was introduced to Jehovah's witnesses while in the service Wrangler.

 

[amigo de christo]

That's what I thought before I became a Christian. I thought I was gaining the "Christ consciousness", boy was I ever wrong!!

Much love!

Aint ya happy the LORD pulled you out of that lie . I say its time again to thank and praise the LORD .
Let all that has breath praise the glorious Lord . That christ conscious new age stuff is deadly to the soul of all who sit under it .
We sticking to that bible and shall follow that JESUS , that TRUTH . Now lift those hands up , ITS LORD PRAISING TIME .

 

[Robert Gwin]

Proliferating Christian denominations do not leave the faith; they leave congregations or denominations.

A church a friend goes to almost lost a beloved preacher due to staff in-fighting. It is my understanding, during this tumultuous time, he put out feelers to start a new congregation in a different city. No possibility of him leaving Christ. Yes, God accepts them.

I think you want to go down the path of a doctrinal purity test, which Romans 10:9 is about as close as I can find in Scripture.

I posted the Bibles explanation Wrangler, I can not do anymore. I hope you are correct, but I don't see it sir. God's people have existed as an organization since about 1500 BCE, (not including the period of apostasy), and much was written about them when they started mingling with other faiths, the first of the ten commandments is quite clear, we have never been allowed interfaith. So I guess I will have to ask you to state it scripturally where God accepts multiple faiths sir.

 

[amigo de christo]

Interfaith is a lie that will cause folks to only fall away .
Interfaith cometh not from GOD but rather the dragon and his peoples who have taught it .
Make not the bed in the harlots house of the delusion of the all inclusion . Dont come near her chambers
for inside her are dead mens bones that lead all unto death .

 

[Davy]

The Bible records Jesus saying that the Father alone is God (John 17:3), and when the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be God he denied it and said he was claiming to be God's son (John 10:33-38). Jesus refers to his Father, YHWH, as his God (John 20:17, Revelation 3:12). God's word (the Bible) does not contradict itself. What was the accusation that the Jews had Jesus crucified for? :

Matthew 26:63-65 (WEB):

(63) ... The high priest answered him, “I adjure you by the living God, that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God.”​

(64) Jesus said to him, “You have said it. Nevertheless, I tell you, after this you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of the sky.”​

(65) Then the high priest tore his clothing, saying, “He has spoken blasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Behold, now you have heard his blasphemy.​

You say you believe the Bible, but apparently you don't!

The reality is that they asked if Jesus was the Son of God, and Jesus affirmed that point. That Jesus is The Son of God for the purpose of His death and resurrection of His flesh is an obvious point The Scriptures make, especially in the Book of Hebrews. But at the same time, the Scriptures point to Jesus as GOD The Son, and not just a man of flesh. Even in the below Scripture, Jesus is claiming He is The "I AM", one of GOD's sacred names. He did the same claim at the end of John 8 also.

Mark 14:61-62
61 But He held His peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked Him, and said unto Him, "Art Thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
62 And Jesus said, "I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven."
KJV

And the Book of Luke records that same event with His saying this...

Luke 22:67-69
67 "Art Thou the Christ? tell us." And He said unto them, "If I tell you, ye will not believe:
68 And if I also ask you, ye will not answer Me, nor let Me go.
69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God."
KJV

Lord Jesus told the blind scribes and Pharisees who He is, yet they refused to believe, just as the blind Pharisee types still do today...

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am."
KJV

 

[Davy]

That's what I thought before I became a Christian. I thought I was gaining the "Christ consciousness", boy was I ever wrong!!

Much love!

But did you know that some beth-avens (houses of vanity) teach that we each can become 'a Christ', and those false churches claim to believe in Jesus Christ?

Christ's Apostles warned us especially for these last days about false prophets and seducing spirits.

 

[Wrangler]

While in the Marine Corp … We basically had 2 available, and they simply labeled them Protestant and Catholic.

Further evidence to consider for those who deny America is a Christian nation.