But I think repenting and seeking the righteousness of God are the same thing. I agree - we need God's help to do that, and God is always willing to help those who really and sincerely ask.
Heaven
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Actually a better Scripture you might refer to is Luke 17:21 where Jesus said that the kingdom of heaven is within you, meaning dwelling 'inside' the person. How?
It is because God made us 'also flesh', the Genesis 6:3 verse I referred to.
And Hebrews 4:12 reveals that we are made up of "soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow".
And in John 4:24 he said that "God is a Spirit".
Can you not figure out how that 'within' is by those Scriptures?
Matthew 4:17 is clear and simple. Repent - heaven is already here. Problem is, repentance isn't easy - we need God's help. At least, I do. But it's worth it, because it brings peace of mind.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Ah, you're not interested in actually staying in The Scriptures, but instead are trying to use Scripture to support FALSE AMILLENNIALISM.
One of the false doctrines of Amill is the bogus belief that Christ's LITERAL Kingdom is ONLY about a spiritual manifesting, and not also a literal physical Kingdom to come. What you are falsely pushing is the 'kingdom now' theory for a CORRUPT WORLD THAT IS SOON TO BE DESTROYED!
Obviously, you haven't taken the time to discipline yourself in The Word of God, so as to know to not succumb to such Amill fantasies.
[39] You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me;
[40] yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life. John 5:39-40 RSV
Davy
Well-Known Member
Are you trying to say I am not a Christian?
I have evidently went way... over your head with trying to point to you 'pearls' about the Kingdom of Heaven per written Bible Scripture. But that's no reason to throw the above verses at me, WHICH I don't think you even understand those verses either!
When Jesus said to search the Scriptures, it's because they bear witness about Him, and The Gospel, and by that we are given to understand His offer of eternal life. So in essence WHAT is He commanding we do there?
By "search the scriptures" He is commanding us to do BIBLE STUDY in His Word. So if you haven't understood the Scriptures about Heaven that I posted, then what is that showing about your Bible studies?
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Davy
Well-Known Member
OK, so when I pointed to Luke 17:21 where Jesus said the kingdom is 'within you', and I was pointing to Genesis 6:3 where God said He made Adam also flesh, and in Hebrews 4:12 which reveals our makeup God created us with, and with John 4:24 that declares God is a Spirit, it's all about this...
We are not only just flesh bodies. God also gave us a spirit (with soul) that lives literally 'inside' our flesh body, but is not actually of our flesh. It is about the 2 different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly dimension, and the Heavenly dimension where God and the angels dwell, behind an invisible veil.
So when Lord Jesus pointed to the blind Pharisees that the kingdom of heaven does not come by the eyes (flesh eyes), but that instead the kingdom of heaven is 'within you', He was pointing to Spirit dimension, the heavenly. When one is 'born again' through Faith on Jesus Christ, a spiritual operation unto their spirit with soul inside their flesh body takes place. They become a "new creature" like Paul said. That is NOT happening on the outside with the flesh body, but on the 'inside', 'within', involving one's spirit/soul. Now those who make the mistake of thinking we are flesh only, will never understand this. So I recommend that those stop listening to their flesh, and to men's doctrines, and get more into God's Word for theirselves.
Furthermore, in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, we are shown what happens to us at death of our flesh body. A "silver cord" that keeps both our flesh and spirit together while alive on this earth is severed, and then our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That means 'we', our spirit with soul goes to Heaven, to that other dimension. This is especially shown in The New Testament Scriptures. We do not literally sleep in graves, but live according to God in the spirit (1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4).
Thus what God said about Adam in Genesis 6:3 that Adam also is flesh is pointing to the fact that God also gave Adam a 'spirit' that lives inside his flesh body, and is of the heavenly dimension.
Hebrews 4:12 emphatically reveals our 3-part makeup God created us with, a spirit, a soul, and a flesh body. The New Testament reveals that our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh body. But our spirit with soul is always together, because both are of the Heavenly dimension.
With John 4:24 declaring that "God is a spirit", and that all who worship Him MUST worship Him "in spirit and in truth", that means our worship to our Heavenly Father is NOT by our flesh, but by our 'spirit' (with soul) that is WITHIN our flesh body. Our spirit communicates with Him via His Son Jesus Christ in the Heavenly when we pray. So what, did you really think it was your 'flesh' that is doing the communicating with Him, just because you hear words come out of your flesh mouths? No, He hears our prayers via The Holy Spirit dwelling inside to our 'spirit'. And that is definitely about the Heavenly dimension order of things.
We are not only just flesh bodies. God also gave us a spirit (with soul) that lives literally 'inside' our flesh body, but is not actually of our flesh. It is about the 2 different dimensions of existence written of in God's Word, this earthly dimension, and the Heavenly dimension where God and the angels dwell, behind an invisible veil.
So when Lord Jesus pointed to the blind Pharisees that the kingdom of heaven does not come by the eyes (flesh eyes), but that instead the kingdom of heaven is 'within you', He was pointing to Spirit dimension, the heavenly. When one is 'born again' through Faith on Jesus Christ, a spiritual operation unto their spirit with soul inside their flesh body takes place. They become a "new creature" like Paul said. That is NOT happening on the outside with the flesh body, but on the 'inside', 'within', involving one's spirit/soul. Now those who make the mistake of thinking we are flesh only, will never understand this. So I recommend that those stop listening to their flesh, and to men's doctrines, and get more into God's Word for theirselves.
Furthermore, in Ecclesiastes 12:5-7, we are shown what happens to us at death of our flesh body. A "silver cord" that keeps both our flesh and spirit together while alive on this earth is severed, and then our flesh goes back to the earthly elements where it came from, but our spirit goes back to God Who gave it. That means 'we', our spirit with soul goes to Heaven, to that other dimension. This is especially shown in The New Testament Scriptures. We do not literally sleep in graves, but live according to God in the spirit (1 Peter 3 and 1 Peter 4).
Thus what God said about Adam in Genesis 6:3 that Adam also is flesh is pointing to the fact that God also gave Adam a 'spirit' that lives inside his flesh body, and is of the heavenly dimension.
Hebrews 4:12 emphatically reveals our 3-part makeup God created us with, a spirit, a soul, and a flesh body. The New Testament reveals that our spirit with soul can be separated from our flesh body. But our spirit with soul is always together, because both are of the Heavenly dimension.
With John 4:24 declaring that "God is a spirit", and that all who worship Him MUST worship Him "in spirit and in truth", that means our worship to our Heavenly Father is NOT by our flesh, but by our 'spirit' (with soul) that is WITHIN our flesh body. Our spirit communicates with Him via His Son Jesus Christ in the Heavenly when we pray. So what, did you really think it was your 'flesh' that is doing the communicating with Him, just because you hear words come out of your flesh mouths? No, He hears our prayers via The Holy Spirit dwelling inside to our 'spirit'. And that is definitely about the Heavenly dimension order of things.
Davy
Well-Known Member
You still don't really understand, because The Word of God in letters is NOT just a Book.
Jesus said that if one stays in HIS WORD, one will become His disciple indeed, and the Truth will set one free.
So if you are not staying in His BOOK (meaning His written Word), then it means you are NOT one of His disciples.
Paul instructs us to pray constantly. When we pray, the Lord teaches us things. You refer to these teachings as "Amill fantasies," don't you?
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
I imagine it depends on what one believes 'The Kingdom of Heaven' consists of?
Didn't Jesus spend an extraordinary amount of his parables attempting to give us insight into this? I can see him scratching his head and saying 'what shall I compare the Kingdom of Heaven to? Luke 13:20.....and then he would illustrate with an analogy.
My question to you is, did his analogous explanations encompass the physical? Am I questioning the physicality of God's Kingdom? I don't think so. What I am doing however is to say it is far greater than the physical......and this is what his parables embrace and expand.
Have you ever heard of a king being his kingdom? Kings rule over kingdoms, and Christ rules over the Kingdom of God. He is not "the kingdom of heaven".
As far as God is concerned unseen things are already a reality. He already sees the Body of Christ as an accomplished fact, just as God already saw the crucifixion of Christ as an accomplished fact even BEFORE He created the universe.
Christ was despised and rejected of men. That was not Heaven on earth.
Jesus says the kingdom of heaven is at hand. What makes you think it is a physical place?
I already pointed out what Jesus said, and what applies until His Second Coming: THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU. But that does not cancel the fact that Christ will establish a literal, tangible, physical (and spiritual) Kingdom on earth after His Second Coming. Without the New Birth no man can enter or see the Kingdom of God. See John chapter 3.
Davy
Well-Known Member
Good luck with trying to communicate with others, you obviously are not paying attention to me.
But what makes you think heaven is a physical place, and not a spiritual place?
Perhaps the rejection is hell on/in earth... or death on/in earth? Perhaps the heaven or the hell is in men depending on where they are at the moment with or without God?
There is a mistake here, Amadeus. I didn't say what you quoted me as saying. Have a nice day.
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