What does it mean to be born again?

[Lizbeth]

You are reacting in an emotional way to what is written plainly and clearly in the bible. Address what the bible says...not deflect into something that you are fixated on...that ruins your understanding of deeper things.

Do you believe that the bible comes from the inspired words from God?...or not?

Or does leaning on your own understanding "feel" better to you?

Oh, what's this, just more ad hominem accusation and belittlement. But no response to the SCRIPTURES I just posted. They are very clear but rather than address THEM you are addressing me with more accusation and belittlement, as is your usual way.

I feel there is nothing more to do here, but I only post and share my bread that others who are reading might enjoy, and I am edified too.

 

[Johann]

Oh, what's this, just more ad hominem accusation and belittlement. But no response to the SCRIPTURES I just posted. They are very clear but rather than address THEM you are addressing me with more accusation and belittlement, as is your usual way.

I feel there is nothing more to do here, but I only post and share my bread that others who are reading might enjoy, and I am edified too.

And so am I, being edified.

 

[Behold]

You sure about the fact he is promulgating Hyper-Calvinism?

Yes, He teaches, as you pointed out, basic "Tulip" Calvinism nonsense.

Episkopos can't even realize that the Born again are already in the KOG........ and he teaches that God just might choose you to be in it.

I can show Him that Jesus said that the KOG is within you, and he'll stare at that verse through his Calvinist Lens, and run to his "im a Calvinist handbook" and never find what that verse means...
This one.... Luke 17:21

See that?
He is stuck in... classic "pre-destined elect" theological mind cage.
Calvinism, all of it is hyper, as its all incredible Cross denying error.

Calvinist's look at the cross with a sort of disdain, and they say thing like....."Whipping boy" Jesus, as their carnally sarcastic way to low rate God's Grace.
That's what Episkopos said.

He is afraid to admit that he does not believe that Jesus keeps anyone saved, and im waiting for his Thread on "Freewill is a myth".
Tho, it could be that he's sort of a blend of Calvinism and other heresies and might not have an issue with FW.

 

[Episkopos]

Oh, what's this, just more ad hominem accusation and belittlement. But no response to the SCRIPTURES I just posted. They are very clear but rather than address THEM you are addressing me with more accusation and belittlement, as is your usual way.

You deflected my posting of scriptures. You did exactly what you said I did. If you were honest you would look at what I posted rather than post non-related indoctrination verses and then accuse me of ignoring your post. You need to learn what righteousness is...

I feel there is nothing more to do here, but I only post and share my bread that others who are reading might enjoy, and I am edified too.

People love to be propped up in the flesh...where they already are and where they will remain.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But wait...do these all agree on other points? Not at all. The cracks soon begin to tell.

Which makes it blindingly apparent it was a false and temporary “unity” not built by the Spirit.

 

[Lizbeth]

Carnal reactions are never based on logic. It's emotional. The same goes for misinterpreting the bible. If it gives you are temporary "high" emotionally...and then that's it...you're hooked. And even if there are dozens of other verses that negate what you have bought into...that doesn't count because the "feeling" just isn't there. So much for subjective interpretation. And then if you get others to support you in your new found delusion...then you can ALL collectively ignore major portions of the bible...together!

But wait...do these all agree on other points? Not at all. The cracks soon begin to tell. The carnal mind fixates on other emotional stimuli...and different people react differently to different carnal stimuli. And then there is a partial logic...whereby one person sees the obvious error in the other's doctrine...as per logic? Why? Because that doctrine wasn't yet locked into emotionally.

Based on such emotional reactions, we get denominations. Divisions within a Body in a baby stage. Do people grow out of these divisions? Not very many. That would take something greater than carnal emotions to take people away from their own understanding.

Until there is something deeeper than emotions going on...something that is actually spiritual and and life-giving...believers will remain in a permanent baby stage, relying on emotions and flawed logic.

Might as well give it up sir. The gig is up. You are as obvious as if you were wearing cellophane. I no longer even entertain the possibility that you might be sincere.

And I would warn others:

2Co 11:13-15

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Episkopos]

I'll repost this, since the truth gets washed out in carnal religious reactions...

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We are talking about OT righteousness. Before Jesus came to bring the higher walk in Him, based on a new kind of faith (the faith OF Christ) there was a common righteousness among the meek and God fearing. This is something the Jews understand very well...but people who come to God based on the NT not so much...or not at all. 2 examples among many will suffice. Actually the first is repeated twice and the second 3 times.


David says...judge me according to my righteousness


Ps. 7:8 The LORD shall judge the people: judge me, O LORD, according to my righteousness, and according to mine integrity that is in me.


Ez. 14:14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.


I realize that you may have to study on this for some years before you understand what I'm getting at...but the bible is the bible.


I could add many verses on righteousness both from the OT and the NT...but I'm not a scripture monkey. If people ignore plain scripture when a few examples are given, they will ignore any number of verses that point to the truth. This is a hostile environment to the truth.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And so am I, being edified.

Yes, you are being edified/built up/strengthened in your flesh.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Might as well give it up sir. The gig is up. You are as obvious as if you were wearing cellophane. I no longer even entertain the possibility that you might be sincere.

And I would warn others:

2Co 11:13-15

For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

 

[Behold]

.

We are talking about OT righteousness. Before Jesus came to bring the higher walk in Him, based on a new kind of faith (the faith OF Christ) there was a common righteousness among the meek and God fearing. s.


David says...judge me according to my righteousness

Episkopos, and his Religious Sci-Fi.... has taken the stage....

Let me show you., reader.

The Apostle Paul....>he said he was BLAMELESS in the LAW"....>He kept it, and said that this is self righteousness and its "DUNG".

Listen, if man was righteous, there would be no OT Moses Law telling them how to behave, and no NT Cross of Christ that allows us to become "the righteousness OF GOD< in Christ".

So, THERE is FOUND = the only "righteousness" you'll ever have that God accepts, and God has to give it to you as "the GIFT of Righteousness" and "the GIFT of Salvation".

Jesus came to "save sinners"....as "all have sinned".
Remember that when some Calvinist obsessed Cross denier tries to get you worried about the Law, and other heresies they are here to sell you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I began reading the writer Laurina introduced me to last night. A section of what I read addresses what you’ve said here . This is Kierkegaard:

us ordinary people are afraid to come into personal, immediate contact with the eternal. Instead, we rely on traditions and the voice of others. We are content to be a specimen or a copy, liv ing a life shielded against individual responsibility before the Truth.
True individuality is measured by this: how long or how far one can endure being alone without the understanding of oth ers.
The person who can endure being alone is poles apart from the social mixer. He is miles apart from the man-pleaser, the one who manages successfully with everyone – he who possesses no sharp edges. God never uses such people. The true individual, anyone who is going to be directly involved with God, will not and cannot avoid the human bite. He will be thoroughly mis understood. God is no friend of cozy human gathering.
Yes, in the purely human world the rule is this: Seek out the help and opinion of others. Christ says: Beware of men! The majority of people are not only afraid of holding a wrong opin ion, they are afraid of holding an opinion alone. In the physical world water puts out fire. So too in the spiritual world. The “many”, the mass of people, put out the inner fire – beware of men!

The entire few chapters deals with it. Here is more, related. (By Kierkegaard.)

”There are many people who arrive at conclusions in life much the way schoolboys do; they cheat their teachers by copying the answer book without having worked the problem themselves.”

“The will of Christ is this: an examination in which one cannot cheat.”

 

[Episkopos]

Episkopos, and his Religious Sci-Fi.... has taken the stage....

Let me show you., reader.

The Apostle Paul....>he said he was BLAMELESS in the LAW"....>He kept it, and said that this is self righteousness and its "DUNG".

Listen, if man was righteous, there would be no OT Moses Law telling them how to behave, and no NT Cross of Christ that allows us to become "the righteousness OF GOD< in Christ".

So, THERE if FOUND = the only "righteousness" you'll ever have, and God has to give it to you as "the GIFT of Righteousness" and "the GIFT of Salvation".

Jesus came to "save sinners"....as "all have sinned".
Remember that when some Calvinist obsessed Cross denier tries to get you worried about the Law, and other heresies.

You're saying that David was wrong. (I noticed you erased the sentence that condemned David...yea...not a wise move) And Ezekiel was also being a false witness? And that's just 2 citations from the bible you mock at. Why do you raise your emotional understanding above the bible? I could post dozens more verses like the above from dozens more bible authors...including Jesus...but you still think you know better?

When does your religious ego end, and some humility with a recognition of God and His prophets begin?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You sure about the fact he is promulgating Hyper-Calvinism?

And yet you say I am a man’s disciple. You were actually wavering here, is he or isn’t he? you who used to have great zeal for arguing for Calvinism. Yet you had to ask someone else. Are you his disciple? Your previous zeal wasn’t even based on understanding Calvinism. And your current zeal is just more of that same being blown around with every whim or doctrine of men.

Examination and thought about history and its repeated patterns might help you. It has never been the good side to be on to go with the mass that is called established religion approved by men.
The established religion approved by men followed Jesus around and stalked and harassed Him and then killed Him out of hatred for the truth. If He came again, established religion would do the same exact thing.

 

[Episkopos]

We will never be able to reach the Jews as long as we throw out a biblical understanding of righteousness. There are two testaments...each with its own standard of righteousness. The New is built on the OLD. It seems that neither the Jews nor modern believers understand the others idea of righteousness. BOTH are equally ignorant of God's ways (plural).

We will not reach the Jews by calling God a liar. His words are not meant to be impugned or ignored. His words are meant to light up our path...as per David.

The Jews will not see the way of Christ as superior to their own until modern believers actually start living IN the truth.

 

[Episkopos]

And yet you say I am a man’s disciple. You were actually wavering here, is he or isn’t he? you who used to have great zeal for arguing for Calvinism. Yet you had to ask someone else. Are you his disciple? Your previous zeal wasn’t even based on understanding Calvinism. And your current zeal is just more of that same being blown around with every whim or doctrine of men.

Examination and thought about history and its repeated patterns might help you. It has never been the good side to be on to go with the mass that is called established religion approved by men.
The established religion approved by men followed Jesus around and stalked and harassed Him and then killed Him out of hatred for the truth. If He came again, established religion would do the same exact thing.

Calvinism is championing only one aspect of God's ways (plural). The fact that I also understand OT righteousness...and not just the higher NT righteousness...is lost on people who react with the carnal emotions. Logic dictates that I can't be pegged into one religious ideology or the other. The truth is bigger than what a man's theory can encompass. I stand for the truth that includes God's plural ways with humankind.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Calvinism is championing only one aspect of God's ways (plural).

Yes, I see that. The calling of God is irrevocable AND He chooses who He will AND He died for the whole world AND He isn’t desirous that any perish AND He says whosoever will.
I see all the ands. Most men seem to choose parts and ignore all the other ands.

 

[Behold]

You're saying that David was wrong.

For clarification.......david said he wanted to be judged by his righteousness., because that was his belief.

Abraham had already shown us that its by Faith, as Righteousness comes from God.

You seem to not want to realize that there is a reason that "sin offerings" were the Old Testament ritual for the OT Jews, and that the Priest, the High Priest offered a big sin offering , once a year, for the sin of the nation.
So, if they had any righteousness, non of that would have been happening, Episkopos.

Also, Jesus went into the Temple and threw out Pharisees who were selling these small sin offerings.

There is no righteousness found, since Adam threw it away for us all......until Jesus's Cross and Blood atonement pays for our sin, so that God can then Give us "the Gift of Righteousness", when we believe, as "faith is counted as Righteousness", and the believer is "justified by Faith".

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The truth is bigger than what a man's theory can encompass. I stand for the truth that includes God's plural ways with humankind.

I would say you stand IN truth and can therefore see all the directions it stretches out in.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

There is no righteousness found, since Adam threw it away for us all......until Jesus's Cross and Blood atonement

This just proves you don’t understand righteousness. God called many people righteous in the OT. In the NT also.

 

[Behold]

This just proves you don’t understand righteousness. God called many people righteous in the OT. In the NT also.

The Cross is where God's righteousness is Given. = John 3:16-17

See "The gospel of the Grace of God" for your Salvation.
Accept no substitutes.

But if you want to play Episkopos's game of OT Jew mixed with Calvinism...., while ignoring THe CROSS....... as your idea of going to heaven, then you have a reality check up ahead.