First Work of Faith: Confessing Jesus Christ

[Wrangler]

Get off your universalism nonsense

Gladly! As soon as you stop talking in code. Except for all the work, no work is required for salvation. Huh?

People say, ‘I have to go to work’’ and everyone knows this means they have TO DO something. People don’t say, ‘I have to go to a work.’ That is you gnostic language of secret meaning.

Fact is, there is action needed on the part of man to be saved - we must accept the gift - needed action is commonly called work. This work is what separates the saved from the damned. If it were not so, universal salvation would be the way.

External work, aka ‘a’ work is not needed for salvation. Yet, this internal work of humbling self to be in need of a savior is very much a prerequisite to salvation.

 

[FaithWillDo]

As I said, I offer proof that man's words are his work, whether for good or evil, even as God's words are His work, which are always good.

At this point, it is a simple generic teaching I offer from the Bible.

That is the first argument I make here, that I don't believe anyone as bothered challenging.

I pray you do so, before hoping to move on. Until I am at least challenged in my argument, then any rejection of it is meaningless to me.

Here is the abridged version to be specific:

The proof here is that the words God and man speak are works.

And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God speaking is work: The spoken word is work.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

We are judged by our works.

For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

All men are judged by their works, and since that includes our words, then our words are also our works to be judged by.

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies.

Heresy is a false teaching spoken and/or written to others, and is a work of the flesh judged by God: Our spoken, as well as written words, are works of judgment.

Dear Robert Derrick,
I did provide scripture but you either didn't read it or you don't accept what the verses teach.

Before I show the scriptures again (with a few more), I will say that I agree that "words" are "works" and that mankind is judged by their works. And since mankind's "works" are unclean (sinful), the penalty is death. Every person who has ever lived will pay this penalty of death.

However, because God purposefully created mankind to be sinful creatures, He claims these unclean works of His hand, too. Mankind had no choice in the matter to be as wicked we are:

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

Exd 4:11 And the LORD said unto him, who hath made man's mouth? or who maketh the dumb, or deaf, or the seeing, or the blind? have not I the LORD?

And because God created us to be sinful creatures who have to face the penalty of our sinfulness, God took responsibility to rectify that situation. For this purpose, the Father sent Jesus Christ to save mankind.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

And just as God created us the be sinful creatures (spiritually marred and subject to vanity) without our permission, He will make us into righteous creatures without our permission.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

To make this change (called conversion), Christ will give mankind both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. The Spirit will give mankind a new spiritual nature (that of the Holy Spirit) and a new mind (the mind of Christ). After this new birth, Christ will then judge our carnal nature and carnal minds until they are destroyed. Some of this judgment is a slow process and for that reason, the believer will still sin after they have been saved. But after Christ's judgment is completed, the believer will no longer sin and they will only walk by the Spirit.

Note: Until the believer's judgment is complete, the blood sacrifice of Christ will cover our sins.

After a believer is truly saved (Latter Rain), Christ will continue His work within them. However, now, Christ's work will be to purify the believer which will give them works of righteousness. And as before, the believer's works of righteousness are the "works" of Christ. We are His workmanship and He takes full credit for what we do.

Here are the scriptures which teach that a person's works (whether good or evil) are the "works" of God.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

When Christ does His spiritual work within mankind, we have no knowledge of it. Because mankind has no knowledge of it, mankind claims to have a "free will" and to believe that they are in control of their own words and actions. However, this is untrue according to scripture.

We must have faith to believe Christ and to make sure that we do, Christ will give us the faith we need.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Isa 64:8 But now, O LORD, thou art our father; we are the clay, and thou our potter; and we all are the work of thy hand.

Isa 26:12 O Jehovah, thou appointest peace to us, for, all our works also thou hast wrought for us.

Ecc 3:1 To everything there is a season and a time to every purpose under the heaven.

Prov 21:1 The king's heart is in the hand of the LORD, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will.

Deut 29:4 Yet the LORD hath not given you a heart to perceive, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, unto this day.

2Tim 1:9 who did save us, and did call with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, that was given to us in Christ Jesus, before the times of the ages…

Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: (this includes our words and deeds).

1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

The natural man cannot make a confession of faith. Only the new child of God within the believer can make this confession. The gift of the Spirit comes first, then comes the confession of faith. The gift of the Spirit and the confession of faith do not exist separately from each other. When the Spirit is given, the confession ALWAYS come next.

Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

If a person is "chosen", Christ will give the Elect believer both the Early and Latter Rain before they die; only then will they make the true confession of faith which brings them salvation.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Mankind as a "will" but it is not a "free will". God rules supreme within the hearts and minds of mankind and He leaves nothing up to chance. When this creation is finished, God will be "all in all (1Cor 15:28). God will then have many new children who will dwell with Him forever.

What I have presented above is the purpose and meaning of life. What mankind is experiencing now is how God produces His offspring. It is a painful experience for both the mother (Christ) and the child (mankind).

Joe

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And THAT is the work we are talking about.

Thats not a work in the biblical sense.

not sure why you are trying to make it one

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It amazes me how something that is so simple can be turned into something that is so complicated.

That is what satan wants, to take the simplicity in christ and make it complicated, confusing and not understandable..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Gladly! As soon as you stop talking in code. Except for all the work, no work is required for salvation. Huh?

People say, ‘I have to go to work’’ and everyone knows this means they have TO DO something. People don’t say, ‘I have to go to a work.’ That is you gnostic language of secret meaning.

Fact is, there is action needed on the part of man to be saved - we must accept the gift - needed action is commonly called work. This work is what separates the saved from the damned. If it were not so, universal salvation would be the way.

External work, aka ‘a’ work is not needed for salvation. Yet, this internal work of humbling self to be in need of a savior is very much a prerequisite to salvation.

You keep missing the point

Christ did all the work. I do not have to go to work. I have to STOP my work. And recieve Christ's work. If I continue to try to work. I will fail. Because no matter how much work I do. I can never earn salvation.

 

[robert derrick]

Dear Robert Derrick,
I did provide scripture but you either didn't read it or you don't accept what the verses teach.

Before I show the scriptures again (with a few more), I will say that I agree that "words" are "works" and that mankind is judged by their works.

And so you agree man's words are His works, the same as God's words His work. Therefore, man's confession of faith is work unto salvation.

And since mankind's "works" are unclean (sinful), the penalty is death.

The doctrine of Scripture, that man's words are as God's words, work, is not based upon whether that work of man's words is good or evil.

Confession with the mouth the Lord Is the first work of faith man does to be saved.

And so now, you have met my two requirements, and have shown any difference between us, pertaining to our work of words of confession unto salvation, is mostly distinction without real difference.

I am sure you would rather say, we are saved by the work of God the 'words of our mouths'. It's just semantics, and I can teach either way.

We obtain our salvation from God by confessing with our mouths His Son the Lord Jesus from our heart full of His faith.

We are saved by God through confession of our mouths, in the work of the Spirit from a pure heart of faith.

Either way, no man is saved by faith alone, before faith is culminated and perfected in confessing Jesus with our mouths.

Now I will gladly go back to where we left off, and answer you point by point.

And I will do so with the understanding, that although you acknowledge words of God and man are work of the mouths, you still don't wish to say man's words of confession are a work of salvation we take part it. You would probably rather say it is a work of 'God alone' with our mouths.

 

[robert derrick]

Every person who has ever lived will pay this penalty of death.

Since all men has sinned, yes, all men have separated themselves from God's Spirit and life by sinning, even as Adam did.

However, because God purposefully created mankind to be sinful creatures, He claims these unclean works of His hand, too. Mankind had no choice in the matter to be as wicked we are:

The error of being now created sinners with sin nature, is another topic. But, I'll respond.

God still creates all living creatures just as good as in the beginning of the first 6 days. God has not become a Creator of children of the devil. Nor has the devil been granted-creation of men.

Neither is God the tempter of sin, by creating man to sin with no choice in the matter. James 1 rebukes this lying excuse for sinning. "The devil made me do it" is no excuse, far less is the accusation "God made me this way."

God doesn't first love us by making us damned children of Satan from the womb.

Man has no choice in being created, but all men are given choice to do good or evil, when no longer babes weaned from the mother's milk.

Scripture saying all men have sinned, shows all men have choice to do evil at some time, and so all men are in need of a Savior for forgiveness of past sins.

All men also are in need of the Deliverer to be freed from sinning against God, so as not to undo His work of grace in our salvation and justification by Christ.

We must continually have power of God to confess His Son with our mouth. That is not possible while sinning with the devil. We can have lip-service, but we cannot confess the Lord Jesus by His Spirit, while being His enemy by sinning with the world.

Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

God is speaking to Christians that have confessed Him, who are now doing such works of the flesh.

 

[FaithWillDo]

And so you agree man's words are His works, the same as God's words His work. Therefore, man's confession of faith is work unto salvation.


The doctrine of Scripture, that man's words are as God's words, work, is not based upon whether that work of man's words is good or evil.

Confession with the mouth the Lord Is the first work of faith man does to be saved.

And so now, you have met my two requirements, and have shown any difference between us, pertaining to our work of words of confession unto salvation, is mostly distinction without real difference.

I am sure you would rather say, we are saved by the work of God the 'words of our mouths'. It's just semantics, and I can teach either way.

We obtain our salvation from God by confessing with our mouths His Son the Lord Jesus from our heart full of His faith.

We are saved by God through confession of our mouths, in the work of the Spirit from a pure heart of faith.

Either way, no man is saved by faith alone, before faith is culminated and perfected in confessing Jesus with our mouths.

Now I will gladly go back to where we left off, and answer you point by point.

And I will do so with the understanding, that although you acknowledge words of God and man are work of the mouths, you still don't wish to say man's words of confession are a work of salvation we take part it. You would probably rather say it is a work of 'God alone' with our mouths.

Dear Robert Derrick,
The difference between what you are saying and what I am saying is very different. Mankind has no works to perform to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and salvation. The confession of faith is Christ's work and is not man's work. You say there is no difference but there is. One way falls under the Old Covenant and the other way falls under the New Covenant.

Paul says that if you follow the Law even on just one point (like circumcision), the person becomes a debtor to keeping the whole Law (which is not possible). He then says that this person is fallen from grace. The church has made the confession of faith a "work".

Gal 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. 3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Turning to works is the sin that leads to death and is how Satan kills the saints (Mat 24:9, Rev 11:7). It happens 100% of the time to all Elect believers before they are converted. It is their "day of evil" (Prov 16:4, Jer 17:17) when they are under Satan's spiritual control.

It still sounds like you believe in mankind's "free will" ability as to whether or not a person will make a confession of faith - but I really don't know since you have not answered the questions I asked you earlier.

If a person believes in mankind's ability to make a "free will" choice as to whether or not to accept Christ, they cannot possibly be saved at that time. Their belief in their own "works" comes from the false teachings of Satan via the spirit of anti-Christ. Mankind has no "free will" ability. Only the Father has a free will ability. Mankind can only respond to the work which Christ does within us. He is 100% responsible for our salvation and that includes our confession of faith. And because He is, He will save all mankind just as He said He would do. Neither Satan or mankind can stop Him from succeeding.

It would be helpful if you would answer my questions. Do you believe Christ is going to save 100% of mankind? Do you believe mankind has a free will to decide to make a confession of faith?

This will probably be my last post for today. If you respond, I will get back to you tomorrow morning (as the Lord wills).

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

Since all men has sinned, yes, all men have separated themselves from God's Spirit and life by sinning, even as Adam did.

Dear Robert Derrick,
I just saw your last post so I will make a response to it by posting something I wrote earlier. It is a little long so it may take 3 or 4 posts.

Here is what I have been taught from scripture:

God's plan for this creation is perfect and is without mistake or regret. The issue for mankind is that mankind does not and cannot know God, nor does God reveal His plan to us. It is only after a person has been converted into a child of God will they be able to know God and understand His plan. Until that time, mankind’s carnal nature will keep God “veiled”.

Ecc 3:11 He has made everything fitting in its season; However, He has put obscurity (the world) in their heart so that the man may NOT find out His work, that which God does, that which God does from the beginning to the end.

Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Let me explain further by presenting the “big picture”.

Mankind's spiritual condition we have from birth is flawed. It was NOT a mistake by God. We were made that way on purpose so that our flesh controls us. That is why we are carnally minded and why Christ, while in a physical body, was not.

Christ was spiritually perfect and this empowered Him to overcome this carnal world and never sin. But with mankind, we cannot overcome this world and we frequently sin as a result of our spiritual flaw.

It is not man's fault that we were created imperfect. God is responsible for our marred spiritual condition which causes us to sin.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, ...

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

So why did God make us spiritually marred?

Since this creation is for God's purpose of producing His offspring and because God wants His children to be like Him, mankind must learn about good and evil.

At this time, mankind is learning about evil. Later, after we are “converted”, we will learn about the goodness of God.

But for now, mankind must learn about evil; and not just being on the receiving end of evil but also being on the giving end of evil. God even created Satan to be our tempter and deceiver so that we would have a fuller experience of evil.

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever:

Isa 45:5-7 I am the LORD, ... I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Ecc 1:13 An experience of evil God has given to the sons of humanity to humble them by it.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Because of our spiritually marred condition we have at birth, we all grow to become sinful and evil creatures.

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Mankind's carnal nature is hatred towards God and it veils us from knowing Him, so much so, that we do not even have a desire to seek His ways. The ways of Satan is what our carnal nature prefers.

To make matters worse for mankind, Satan was created to feed upon our carnality; the dust of the ground (Gen 3:14). For that reason, Satan works to destroy and deceive mankind through our carnal nature.

Let’s take a look at how this truth applies to experiences of Adam and Eve:

After Adam and Eve were created spiritually marred, they quickly became carnally minded. Christ even put Satan in the Garden of Eden to tempt & deceive Eve so that she would sin. Because Eve was carnal, she didn’t stand a chance against Satan’s deceptions.

Eve even displayed the three carnal causes of sin BEFORE she sinned (1John 2:16).

Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food (lust of the flesh), and that it was pleasant to the eyes (lust of the eyes), and a tree to be desired to make one wise (pride of life), she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Here is the formula for mankind’s spiritual makeup:

CARNAL MIND + CARNAL NATURE = ONE FLESH

This formula can be restated using these terms:

MAN + WOMAN = ONE FLESH

ADAM + EVE = ONE FLESH

Eve represents mankind’s carnal nature and that is why Satan went to her instead of Adam.

After Eve sinned, she fed the forbidden fruit to Adam and He sinned as well. Since Adam and Eve followed the ways of Satan instead of Christ, they spiritually committed adultery with Satan. This adultery caused the marriage relationship they had with Christ to end and they were cast out of the Garden of Eden.

Christ, of course, knew Adam and Eve were carnally minded and would sin because He made them that way. And for this same reason, all of Adam & Eve's offspring sin as well.

Mankind's sin was planned and caused by God so that we would all experience evil.

With God, evil is a tool that He uses for His good and righteous purposes. In this case, His purpose is to create His offspring who have a knowledge of good and evil.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[Wrangler]

Thats not a work in the biblical sense.

not sure why you are trying to make it one

Right, it's work in the general sense.

I've said numerous times that it is not a work in the Biblical sense. This does not mean it is not work, in the general sense. The use of the word "a" or not ought to keep it straight for you. Silly to get confused by your own use of code words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Right, it's work in the general sense.

I've said numerous times that it is not a work in the Biblical sense. This does not mean it is not work, in the general sense. The use of the word "a" or not ought to keep it straight for you. Silly to get confused by your own use of code words.

A work in any sense is something you do to earn or gain something

stop trying to confuse the gospel and make t seam like your working for it

 

[FaithWillDo]

Since all men has sinned, yes, all men have separated themselves from God's Spirit and life by sinning, even as Adam did.

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST...

But since mankind's sin spiritually separates us from God and because God wants children, He needed to create a pathway back to Himself for mankind. To accomplish that task, God sent Jesus Christ to reconcile mankind back to God:

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

However, in our spiritually marred and carnally minded condition, NO PERSON can be saved. We have all sinned and the penalty of sin is death (not eternal hell). For this reason, all mankind must die. This is an absolute truth that cannot be broken. The only solution is for mankind to be “born again” (John 3:3) from the death we all must pay.

Christ's work on the cross gave Christ the legal authority to raise mankind from the grave and to give mankind a new life. By His sacrifice, Christ earned the keys to death and hell (Rev 1:18) and became mankind's near kinsman redeemer. Now, all mankind owes their debt of death to Christ.

Christ will collect mankind's debt by destroying mankind's spiritually marred vessel. And from this vessel’s destruction, Christ will make mankind into a new vessel:

Jer 18:4 And the vessel that he made of clay was marred in the hand of the potter: so he made it again another vessel, as seemed good to the potter to make it.

In mankind’s marred created condition, no person has the ability to “choose” Christ and accept Him as “Lord. The only way mankind can accept Christ is for Christ to individually come to us FIRST and change us from within.

Christ begins His work of conversion for a person when He comes to them and gives them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is when an unbeliever becomes a believer and enters the church.

Jam 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER rain. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is the Holy Spirit of Promise (Eph 1:13-14):

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of Promise (Early Rain), 14 Which is the earnest (down payment) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession (Latter Rain), unto the praise of his glory.

After Christ gives His gift of the Early Rain of the Spirit to an unbeliever, they will no longer be able to reject Him. Even with just an earnest amount of the Spirit, the unbeliever will become a “called out” believer and will confess that Jesus is their Lord.

1 Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

Paul “typed” the receiving of the Early Rain of the Spirit as he traveled the Damascus Road (Acts 9:3-9). From Christ’s visitation, Paul readily accepted Jesus and called Him “Lord”.

However, the Early Rain of the Spirit is only a down payment of the Holy Spirit and cannot convert a person. Because of this partial measure of the Spirit, the new believer will remain spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) and controlled by their carnal nature. As a result, Satan will be able to come to them and deceive them.

Everyone who is “called out from the world” will follow this portion of the Pathway to Salvation and will be deceived by Satan.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

This portion of the pathway when we are under Satan’s deceptions is called mankind's Day of Evil:

Prov 16:4 The LORD will make all to give an answer: yea, even for the evil of the Day of Evil.

The Day of Evil is in contrast to the Day of the Lord.

In the Day of Evil, Satan destroys the new child of God within the believer. This is when the believer commits the sin that leads to death and they lose their salvation.

In the Day of the Lord, Christ destroys Satan (spirit of anti-Christ) within the believer. This is when the believer is converted and saved.

Note: after a believer is converted, they can never fall away and lose their salvation again.

When Satan comes to a new believer, he will masquerade as an angel of light (Christ).

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

The new believer will fall for Satan’s deception because they remain spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit and don't yet have the ability to know the true Christ. Satan will then feed them his carnally pleasing lies (leavened bread) which they will readily accept as the truth of Christ.

Matt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

After a believer’s carnal nature (represented by the symbol “woman”) has come under the control of Satan, the believer’s “woman” will take leaven from Satan and hide it in three measures of meal (truth of Christ). And since the new believer will eat from this leavened loaf of bread, they will be deceived by Satan without even being aware of it.

Christ explained this process again this way:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an Unclean spirit represents Satan’s false truth. Since a called out believer remains spiritually blind after receiving the Early Rain, they cannot replace their false beliefs of this world with the truth of Christ. ONE Unclean spirit leaves the person but comes back with SEVEN (represents the spirit of anti-Christ) more since their house remains void of the truth. Now, instead of just ONE Unclean spirit within them, they now have EIGHT. The number EIGHT is a spiritual symbol and represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is "worse than the first".

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Since all men has sinned, yes, all men have separated themselves from God's Spirit and life by sinning, even as Adam did.

CONTINUED FROM PREVOUS POST...


Paul calls this believer with a worsened spiritual condition the Man of Sin (2Thes 2:1-4). John, in Revelation chapters 13, refers to him as the Seven Headed Ten Horned Beast. This Beast is controlled by the spirit of anti-Christ (the second Beast/the False Prophet).

When Christ comes to an unbeliever with the Early Rain of the Spirit, Christ strikes a blow to the head of the believer with His “sword” (God’s Word). This blow by the sword gives the believer a deadly wound. However, due to Satan’s deceptions via the spirit of anti-Christ, the believer’s head wound is healed and they devolve into a Man of Sin.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

This verse below also applies:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Christ’s spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all Elect believers who take up the Sword, must perish (death of the carnal nature) by the Sword. This death by the sword is a necessary part of the conversion process.

I’ll explain this concept further:

After an Elect believer receives the first blow to their head by the sword of Christ, their carnality (Old Man) starts slowly dying. This slow process of judgment within the believer causes a spiritual war to develop between the earnest of the Spirit and the believer’s carnality.

During this spiritual war, Satan will come to the aid of the believer’s carnality via the spirit of anti-Christ. This spirit will strengthen the “Old Man” (carnality of the believer) because the spirit of anti-Christ will masquerade as Christ and will fully deceive the believer. While under Satan’s influence, the believer will follow the ways of Satan instead of the ways of Christ. In other words, the believer will commit adultery with Satan (like Adam and Eve did) and will fall from grace (be cast out of the Garden of Eden).

With the spirit of anti-Christ now indwelling the believer, the believer will become worse than the first; a Man of Sin.

The Man of Sin is presented in Revelation chapter 13 as the Seven Headed Beast. And since the believer’s deadly head wound which came from the sword of Christ is now healed, the world will be amazed by the strength of the beast and his ability to make war. They will then ask “who is able to make war with him?”

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. 2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. 3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. 4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

Since the Old Man (now a Man of Sin) continues to live, the spiritual death that the believer needed to pay to satisfy their sin debt remains unpaid and they remain under the Law of Sin and Death.

To make Satan’s ability to deceive mankind even easier, mankind's carnal nature has a built-in preference for "works" (Satan’s way) over faith (Christ’s way):

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, the old is better.

The Old Wine represents the blood of the animal sacrifices of the Old Covenant of Law. The Old Covenant is man's attempt to be acceptable to Christ by their own “works”. With this approach, the remission of sins is not possible.

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

The New Wine represents the blood of Christ which Christ shed for the New Covenant of Grace through Faith.

Mat 26:27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28 For this is my blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

The New Covenant of Grace through Faith is the only acceptable approach to Christ and it is based solely on the works of Christ “lest any man should boast” (Eph 2:9).

Under the New Covenant, Christ will change mankind from “within” (spiritually). However, this approach to Christ is rejected by mankind’s carnal nature because it inherently believes that mankind has at least some ability to make themselves acceptable to God. Mankind’s inherent belief in “self-worth” is responsible for the many religions of the world and is one of the reasons why a called out believer will always mix their own “works” with faith.

When a believer commits this sin of mixing “works” with faith, they are trying to serve two masters:

Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

At this point, the believer has truly fallen away and turned to religion for their salvation. They have experienced the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15). This is the one and only sin that leads to a believer’s spiritual death (1John 5:16). And from this death, the believer cannot be renewed by repentance:

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

The Doctrine of Free Will is the most common belief that causes a believer to fall away. They use this “works” based belief system to differentiate themselves from why unbelievers are worthy of hell and why they are not. They falsely believe that they made the right choice from their supposed "free will" because they were smarter, wiser or just not as evil as those who rejected Christ. But in truth, they are not. Their decision to accept Jesus as Lord solely came from the work Christ did within them beforehand. Christ did this work when He gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Because a fallen away believer cannot be renewed by repentance, they will remain in this lost, spiritually worsened condition until Christ comes to them a second time. In this age, Christ is only coming a second time to His Elect - the First-Fruits of the harvest of mankind. They have been chosen from the foundation of the world and are the only ones who are going to be saved at this time.

Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love.

CONTINUED ON THE NEXT POST...

 

[FaithWillDo]

Since all men has sinned, yes, all men have separated themselves from God's Spirit and life by sinning, even as Adam did.

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST...

However, the rest of mankind will not be forgotten by Christ. Their salvation will come in the final age (Lake of Fire age). Since mankind's salvation is 100% the work of Christ, no man has the ability to choose the timing of their own salvation. Only the Elect have been chosen by God to be saved in this age. Everyone else must wait for the final age for their day of salvation.

However, in the final age, there is a group order for salvation that has been established by God: the remaining Gentiles will be saved first, then after their "fullness" has come into the Kingdom of Heaven, the remaining bulk of physical Israel will finally be saved.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits, that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Mat 19:30 But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

If a person has been chosen from the foundation of the world, Christ will not let them physically die in their sins. He will come to them a second time and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain is also called the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is the same baptism which the Apostles received on the Day of Pentecost and it is the same baptism which Paul received after being in Damascus for three days. With this baptism, the new child of God is born.

The Latter Rain of the Spirit occurs at the Second Coming of Christ when Christ comes to one of His Elect during this present age.

Christ’s second coming is a reoccurring spiritual event. It is not the falsely claimed one-time event which happens at the end of this physical age.

These verses apply:

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

After Christ comes to an Elect believer a second time and gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit, the Day of the Lord will immediately follow with judgment upon the Man of Sin/Old Man. After their judgment is complete, the Elect believer will be fully converted.

What I have presented above is an abbreviated summary of how Christ saves one of His Elect in this age. They are the First-Fruits of His harvest of mankind.

And as I said earlier, Christ will not forget the rest of mankind and will NOT leave them to rot in the field. In the final age, at the end of the harvest season (Feast of Tabernacles), Christ will finish His work within them and bring in the full harvest of mankind. Then it will be testified to be true that ALL who died “in Adam” is the same ALL who will be made alive “in Christ”.

1 Cor 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first-fruits of them that slept. 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as IN ADAM ALL DIE, EVEN SO IN CHRIST SHALL ALL BE MADE ALIVE.

1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

God does not fail and He never makes mistakes. What mankind is experiencing now is how God produces His children. This is why mankind was created. And due to the successful work of Christ, no one will be lost. This truth is the meaning of life that seems to elude most people.

One final point:

Mankind is NOT restored to the Father because it is mankind’s "will" to be restored to Him. Mankind is restored to the Father because it is God's "will" for it to happen.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Mankind truly has a loving and merciful creator who will do all that is necessary to save each and every one of us. In the end, God will have many new children!

Joe

 

[Wrangler]

You keep missing the point

Christ did all the work.

And that is untrue OR ... wait for it ... universalism would be correct doctrine.

We still have the work, the internal action, to humble ourselves in needing a lord and savior, to accept the gift IF we are to benefit 1 iota from all the work Christ did.

If Christ did all the work for all the world to be saved, then there is no argument against universalism.

It's just that the Bible author guards against hubris of one earning their way into heaven by such works as building a church, feeding the hungry or giving to the poor. So, foolish people, like you, terminally object to work that must be done in denying a work - in the Biblical sense - that has nothing to do with obtaining salvation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And that is untrue OR ... wait for it ... universalism would be correct doctrine.

We still have the work, the internal action, to humble ourselves in needing a lord and savior, to accept the gift IF we are to benefit 1 iota from all the work Christ did.

If Christ did all the work for all the world to be saved, then there is no argument against universalism.

It's just that the Bible author guards against hubris of one earning their way into heaven by such works as building a church, feeding the hungry or giving to the poor. So, foolish people, like you, terminally object to work that must be done in denying a work - in the Biblical sense - that has nothing to do with obtaining salvation.

Your a broken record.

No universalism would not be true

once again, I CAN NOT SAVE MYSELF BY DOING ANYTHING

GOD PAID FOR THE WORLD. SO THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES WILL NOT BE CONDEMNED.

I do NOT SAVE MY SAVE MYSELF BECAUSE I SAY YES TO GOD

 

[Wrangler]

A work in any sense is something you do to earn or gain something

stop trying to confuse the gospel and make t seam like your working for it

There you go again, trying to confuse what work means.

This work is the fire wall for why not everyone is saved; the do not want to do the work necessary to be saved. They refuse to do the work - of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

Denying this essential work - of purging oneself from the ego that one is earning it - is in line with the Biblical prohibition against a work. Folks like you just make matters worse for the unsaved, putting an obstacle between them and grace.

Let me ask you this; can one be saved without repenting? Notice how it is an action word, -ing?

All I have to do is receive it

You perpetually contradict yourself. When ever you say X must be done but nothing you do is necessary, you are contradicting yourself.

This is because your contradictory doctrine; on the one hand, you deny universalism; on the other hand, you admit this work has to be done. Why can't you stop speaking out of both sides of your mouth? Break through the indoctrination you've received!

It does no one any good to diminish the hard work people have to do when you say things like "all you have to do" for it is not nothing. Indeed it is everything.

In the same way, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels when even one sinner repents.”
Luke 15:10

This verse refers to the work, the action, a person who is not Jesus must take that results in joy of angels. Why? Faith establishes grace and by this act of faith, they are saved. Profound.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There you go again, trying to confuse what work means.

This work is the fire wall for why not everyone is saved; the do not want to do the work necessary to be saved. They refuse to do the work - of working out their own salvation with fear and trembling.

Denying this essential work - of purging oneself from the ego that one is earning it - is in line with the Biblical prohibition against a work. Folks like you just make matters worse for the unsaved, putting an obstacle between them and grace.

Let me ask you this; can one be saved without repenting? Notice how it is an action word, -ing?


You perpetually contradict yourself. When ever you say X must be done but nothing you do is necessary, you are contradicting yourself.

This is because your contradictory doctrine; on the one hand, you deny universalism; on the other hand, you admit this work has to be done. Why can't you stop speaking out of both sides of your mouth? Break through the indoctrination you've received!

It does no one any good to diminish the hard work people have to do when you say things like "all you have to do" for it is not nothing. Indeed it is everything.

In the same way, there is joy in the presence of God’s angels when even one sinner repents.”
Luke 15:10

This verse refers to the work, the action, a person who is not Jesus must take that results in joy of angels. Why? Faith establishes grace and by this act of faith, they are saved. Profound.

We are saved by grace, through FAITH. Not of works..lest anyone should boast.

Jesus, It is the WORK OF GOD that we believe.

You Confuse people with your nonsensical idea that we work to earn salvation by receiving it..

God boasts in him, we boast in God. Not in self. Thats why faith is NOT A WORK

 

[Wrangler]

We are saved by grace, through FAITH. Not of works..lest anyone should boast.

Right, code word ‘works’ (plural) but the faith that is how we are saved requires work.

Sad to see you sticking to your code words and ignore common usage, especially considering the work of accepting grace is a requirement of what we must do to be saved OR …. wait for it … universalism would be correct doctrine, right?

 

[Wrangler]

You Confuse people with your nonsensical idea that we work to earn salvation by receiving it..

No sir. Pretending it is a boast in earning it is not what this conversation hinges on. It hinges on work we must do.

Why do you insist on contradicting yourself? Why do you say it is nothing we do AND all we have to do is X? One has to do something or they don’t,