Catholics say it's ok to call a priest "father" because Paul told his followers that he became their father (FALSE).

[Patrick1966]

1 Corinthians 4:15 esv
For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

I've said this before and many don't believe me but most Bible translations (yes, the KJV too!) have ERRONEOUS translations of scripture. And I suspect that we received certain doctrines based on the desires (power and money) of early church leaders and kings.

Anyway, here is the proper translation of 1 Corinthians 4:15 and you will note that Paul says he "beget" (brought) his congregants to God, which is entirely different from saying "I became your father". That is a LIE!

1 Corinthians 4:15 YLT
15 for if a myriad of child-conductors ye may have in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, through the good news, I -- I did beget you

 

[Wrangler]

I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make. A father is one who begets.

Our man-hating society diminishes the fact that men create life and this is the primary reason God is referred to as our Father. Church of England to consider use of gender-neutral terms for God. Women carry the created life in them.

If not father, what term do you prefer for the one who brought you to Christ? Today people think of themselves as more independent than they are, failing to credit those who helped them along the way. This explains the attack on the notion of a self made man. You didn't build that - Wikipedia

 

[ButterflyJones]

Matthew 23:9 NET Version
And call no one your 'father' on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

 

[Patrick1966]

If not father, what term do you prefer for the one who brought you to Christ?

How about "brother" or "friend"?

 

[Patrick1966]

I'm not sure what distinction you are trying to make. A father is one who begets.

It can mean that, but that's NOT what Paul was saying and he was deliberately mistranslated. Paul "beget" them in that he brought them to God. He never said "I became your father". LOL.

beget Add to list Share​

begat; begot; begets; begetting

To beget means to generate something, usually children, and it can be used to refer to the role of either a mother or a father.

 

[Patrick1966]

Matthew 23:9 NET Version
And call no one your 'father' on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

The scripture is very clear. The early church leaders needed to find a way around it and so they mistranslated Paul. They could have gotten around Matthew 23:9 by having us refer to priests as "brother", but they declined to do that. Why is that? I believe it's because they are demonically deluded.

 

[ButterflyJones]

The scripture is very clear. The early church leaders needed to find a way around it and so they mistranslated Paul. They could have gotten around Matthew 23:9 by having us refer to priests as "brother", but they declined to do that. Why is that? I believe it's because they are demonically deluded.

I think it's just one more example of a church acting contrary to all the teachings of Christ.

 

[Patrick1966]

I think it's just one more example of a church acting contrary to all the teachings of Christ.

Matthew 23:12 esv
12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

 

[Patrick1966]

The Pope doesn't appear to be humble. By the way, I'm 56 and was a Catholic for the first 50 years of my life. I don't hate the RCC but, I recognize that its doctrine is FALSE.

 

[Enoch111]

1 Corinthians 4:15

Let's get back to the KJV and ignore all the corrupt bibles:

King James Bible
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
ἐὰν γὰρ μυρίους παιδαγωγοὺς ἔχητε ἐν Χριστῷ ἀλλ' οὐ πολλοὺς πατέρας· ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου ἐγὼ ὑμᾶς ἐγέννησα

So the KJV has translated this properly. At the same time a father does "beget" children, but here this is a metaphorical begetting, since it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates the believer through the preaching of the Gospel.

Of course the Catholic contention of calling "priests" father (based on this or anything else) is sheer nonsense and actually violates the commandment to "call no man father". Even the Catholic priesthood is a violation of New Testament truth regarding the priesthood of believers. However, none of this will make one iota of difference to Roman Catholics. So why even start a thread like this?

 

[Patrick1966]

Let's get back to the KJV and ignore all the corrupt bibles:

King James Bible
For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.
ἐὰν γὰρ μυρίους παιδαγωγοὺς ἔχητε ἐν Χριστῷ ἀλλ' οὐ πολλοὺς πατέρας· ἐν γὰρ Χριστῷ Ἰησοῦ διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου ἐγὼ ὑμᾶς ἐγέννησα

So the KJV has translated this properly. At the same time a father does "beget" children, but here this is a metaphorical begetting, since it is the Holy Spirit who regenerates the believer through the preaching of the Gospel.

Of course the Catholic contention of calling "priests" father (based on this or anything else) is sheer nonsense and actually violates the commandment to "call no man father". Even the Catholic priesthood is a violation of New Testament truth regarding the priesthood of believers. However, none of this will make one iota of difference to Roman Catholics. So why even start a thread like this?

My point was to show how man has changed the Bible to serve his purposes, not to pick on Catholics. Are there any Catholics here? As far as I can tell, hardcore Catholics are cultists and avoid message boards along with the Bible.

P.S. I'm glad to see that the KJV got it right. Thanks for the enlightenment.

 

[Wrangler]

How about "brother" or "friend"?

No because the defining characteristic of a brother or friend is not to beget, to create life - but it is the defining chararacteristic of a father. So, the question is, what is the basis for your opposition to that word in this context?

The father of genetics. The father of his country. Our Father in heaven. In every case, "father" refers to a creator, one who begets, gives life to. In the case of theology, Paul is more of a conduit perhaps of the source of the Creator. However, I think that is overly strict take on the passage wording.

 

[Patrick1966]

No because the defining characteristic of a brother or friend is not to beget, to create life - but it is the defining chararacteristic of a father. So, the question is, what is the basis for your opposition to that word in this context?

The father of genetics. The father of his country. Our Father in heaven. In every case, "father" refers to a creator, one who begets, gives life to. In the case of theology, Paul is more of a conduit perhaps of the source of the Creator. However, I think that is overly strict take on the passage wording.

Jesus was talking about not exalting mere men to a "God-like" status by honoring them with titles such as "father" as only God alone is worthy of such honor. Jesus was referring to religious leaders such as the Pharisees and others, not biological fathers or, as you said, the "father of flight", etc.

 

[strepho]

Your right, denominations teach false doctrine. I respect other people's beliefs. I'm not knocking churches down. MATTHEW CHAPTER 23:8. BUT BE NOT YE CALLED RABBI; FOR ONE IS YOUR MASTER, EVEN CHRIST; AND ALL YE ARE BRETHREN. 23:9. AND CALL NO MAN YOUR FATHER UPON THE EARTH; FOR ONE IS YOUR FATHER , WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. The position for reverend is dangerous territory. You reverend only Jesus. Its egotism and vanity. A child of light, their Father is God. Your earthly one is called dad or pap. Get the picture. Apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and formed Denominations. First Corinthians 3:3. For ye are yet carnal; for where as there is among you ENVYING, strife, divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? 3:4. For while one says, I am of Paul; and another , I am of apollos; are ye not carnal?. The apostates broke away from the foundation of christ and started denominations. Pope is of denominations. They teach tradition of men. Again, I'm not knocking on churches. These denominations put stumbling block in the congregation path. They're in Bondage. PROVERBS 16:9. A MANS HEART DEVISETH HIS WAY ; BUT THE LORD DIRECTS HIS STEPS. Godly seek sound doctrine and wisdom from God. The wicked seek mischief. One path leads to paradise. The other path leads to destruction.

 

[Robert Gwin]

1 Corinthians 4:15 esv
For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

I've said this before and many don't believe me but most Bible translations (yes, the KJV too!) have ERRONEOUS translations of scripture. And I suspect that we received certain doctrines based on the desires (power and money) of early church leaders and kings.

Anyway, here is the proper translation of 1 Corinthians 4:15 and you will note that Paul says he "beget" (brought) his congregants to God, which is entirely different from saying "I became your father". That is a LIE!

1 Corinthians 4:15 YLT
15 for if a myriad of child-conductors ye may have in Christ, yet not many fathers; for in Christ Jesus, through the good news, I -- I did beget you

Jesus pretty clearly stated: (Matthew 23:9-12) . . .do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Finishing with the reason, humility. It is the way it is used, since some call others Father for religious prominence, then that would be an incorrect usage.

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus pretty clearly stated: (Matthew 23:9-12) . . .do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your Father, the heavenly One. 10 Neither be called leaders, for your Leader is one, the Christ. 11 But the greatest one among you must be your minister. 12 Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Finishing with the reason, humility. It is the way it is used, since some call others Father for religious prominence, then that would be an incorrect usage.

Well said. Thank you.