The Gospel was changed by God:

[Episkopos]

I believe you to be miss-guided. We have to claim Jesus' work on the cross for our salvation. Without the sheding of Jesus' blood there is no atonememt for our sins. We claim it when we believe in it.

This is backwards! It is God who rules over men...men have no say in the ways of God.

Man does not control his own destiny...God does. It is a naive error to think we can claim God for ourselves.

If it is written that a man finds a date with a girl by asking her out does this mean that every girl will go out with the one who asks? Your scheme is as misguided and naive in it's reasoning as this is. A religious indoctrination masks the folly of the reasoning in regards to God.

 

[RichardBurger]

Man does not control his own destiny...God does. It is a naive error to think we can claim God for ourselves.

We do not claim God, as you say. But we do have belief, faith, trust, and confidence in His promises. We claim those promises just as He wants us too.

 

[Episkopos]

We do not claim God, as you say. But we do have belief, faith, trust, and confidence in His promises. We claim those promises just as He wants us too.

We receive grace (charis) and the resulting spiritual gifts (charisma) in order to advance in the kingdom. If we walk in the Spirit we will live...but if we walk according to the flesh we will die. This is directed AT Christians.

 

[mark s]

Are you referring to Romans 8?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But those who love God will go through the death of the cross in order to walk in the Spirit and not sin. Not because they love to die...but because that is where Jesus, the true Son of the Father (Bar ABBA) is.

Stated another way...

Not because they love to die...but because they love the truth; and the truth is that we are sinners, and all who sin must die.

 

[Netchaplain]

Good works will follow salvation, not precede it. The desire for good works originate, not from within, but from God. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). When we want to do good, it's because God keeps putting it in us to do so.

Righteousness is imputed, not imparted. "God imputeth righteousness without works" (Rom 4:6); and is "fulfilled in us" (Rom 8:4), not by us.

This is what is meant by "walking in the Spirit": depending not on our might or power but on the Holy Spirit (Zec 4:6; Gal 5:17).

Remember, it is God who "keeps us from falling" (Jude 1:24).

 

[RichardBurger]

Good works will follow salvation, not precede it. The desire for good works originate, not from within, but from God. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). When we want to do good, it's because God keeps putting it in us to do so.

Righteousness is imputed, not imparted. "God imputeth righteousness without works" (Rom 4:6); and is "fulfilled in us" (Rom 8:4), not by us.

This is what is meant by "walking in the Spirit": depending not on our might or power but on the Holy Spirit (Zec 4:6; Gal 5:17).

Remember, it is God who "keeps us from falling" (Jude 1:24).

I love it!!!

We receive grace (charis) and the resulting spiritual gifts (charisma) in order to advance in the kingdom. If we walk in the Spirit we will live...but if we walk according to the flesh we will die. This is directed AT Christians.

You sure are hung up on "we". The truth is that it is not "we," but Christ.

We receive grace (charis) and the resulting spiritual gifts (charisma) in order to advance in the kingdom. If we walk in the Spirit we will live...but if we walk according to the flesh we will die. This is directed AT Christians.

You use the word "we" to much. It is not about us. It is about Jesus.

 

[Episkopos]

Good works will follow salvation, not precede it. The desire for good works originate, not from within, but from God. "For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phil 2:13). When we want to do good, it's because God keeps putting it in us to do so.

Righteousness is imputed, not imparted. "God imputeth righteousness without works" (Rom 4:6); and is "fulfilled in us" (Rom 8:4), not by us.

This is what is meant by "walking in the Spirit": depending not on our might or power but on the Holy Spirit (Zec 4:6; Gal 5:17).

Remember, it is God who "keeps us from falling" (Jude 1:24).

You cannot make a one-time admission into the body as an eternal state. All men who are hired by a company will be given the same justification to be there. But when the work begins some of these will not measure up...these will be fired.

Even MORE so will God let go of the ones who refuse to heed God's ways. It is only a religious conditioning that convinces and dupes people into thinking they are no longer responsible for their own actions. If we continue to sin...in the face of such a grace...then eventually we will be cut off. Hearers of the word is not enough...agree-ers of the word (and our own bent interpretation) is not enough...we must be doers of the word. It is amazing to think that people can be so brain-washed as to miss this very simple truth stated so clearly by Jesus. You can't hide behind Jesus...you must abide in Him or else be cut off.

I love it!!!



You sure are hung up on "we". The truth is that it is not "we," but Christ.



You use the word "we" to much. It is not about us. It is about Jesus.

And Jesus is saved!!!! But WE will be judged. The truth is not like a happy pill that absolves US of all responsibility.

The great delusion is the likeness of Barabbas to Bar ABBA. So many are preaching this general amnesty that is without cost. But the truth is that one must forsake all to follow Christ.

Jesus Christ is not interested in saving the fleshly man. He wants a new creation and paid the price in order to make this possible for those who are willing to die for Him. Anything less is an abomination.

 

[RichardBurger]

No.1: You cannot make a one-time admission into the body as an eternal state. All men who are hired by a company will be given the same justification to be there. But when the work begins some of these will not measure up...these will be fired.

No.2: Even MORE so will God let go of the ones who refuse to heed God's ways. It is only a religious conditioning that convinces and dupes people into thinking they are no longer responsible for their own actions. If we continue to sin...in the face of such a grace...then eventually we will be cut off. Hearers of the word is not enough...agree-ers of the word (and our own bent interpretation) is not enough...we must be doers of the word. It is amazing to think that people can be so brain-washed as to miss this very simple truth stated so clearly by Jesus. You can't hide behind Jesus...you must abide in Him or else be cut off.

No.3: And Jesus is saved!!!! But WE will be judged. The truth is not like a happy pill that absolves US of all responsibility. The great delusion is the likeness of Barabbas to Bar ABBA. So many are preaching this general amnesty that is without cost. But the truth is that one must forsake all to follow Christ.

No.4: Jesus Christ is not interested in saving the fleshly man. He wants a new creation and paid the price in order to make this possible for those who are willing to die for Him. Anything less is an abomination.

You miss the whole idea of salvation through faith in Jesus.

No. 1: You are not God and you have no authority to say that God can not and does not grant eternal salvation to those who trust in Him. Your statement about "living up" means your faith is in you being able to "live up." In other words you are preaching works for salvation. Paul said, "not of works least any man boast." Seems to me that you wish to boast that you are doing works for your salvation.

No. 2: So you no longer sin, right? Otherwise why would you say what you did? Seems like you have condemned yourself.

No. 3: The children of God have already been judged. You think everyone will be judged on their sins of the flesh but that is not what God judges in this age of God's grace. He judges as to what you did with the work of Jesus on the cross; do you really believe God's promise that those who trust in the Lord will be saved? Do you really have belief, faith, trust, confidence that Jesus' shed blood covers your sins of the flesh? If not then there is no forgiveness of sins of the flesh.

No. 4: Jesus came to save sinners and all men are sinners. You are a sinner just as we all are.

 

[Episkopos]

You miss the whole idea of salvation through faith in Jesus.

No. 1: You are not God and you have no authority to say that God can not and does not grant eternal salvation to those who trust in Him. Your statement about "living up" means your faith is in you being able to "live up." In other words you are preaching works for salvation. Paul said, "not of works least any man boast." Seems to me that you wish to boast that you are doing works for your salvation.

No. 2: So you no longer sin, right? Otherwise why would you say what you did? Seems like you have condemned yourself.

No. 3: The children of God have already been judged. You think everyone will be judged on their sins of the flesh but that is not what God judges in this age of God's grace. He judges as to what you did with the work of Jesus on the cross; do you really believe God's promise that those who trust in the Lord will be saved? Do you really have belief, faith, trust, confidence that Jesus' shed blood covers your sins of the flesh? If not then there is no forgiveness of sins of the flesh.

No. 4: Jesus came to save sinners and all men are sinners. You are a sinner just as we all are.

You are confusing the power of God with the ingenuity and ambitions of men. Those who surrender their lives to God are given a new life with a new nature that does not sin. We are saved AWAY from ourselves and into Christ. So a true Christian need never sin. That is...if he has learned to walk by faith rather than sight. The grace of God is sufficient to keep us holy as God is holy. We are kept from the evil nature through the power of the cross so that we may walk in NEWness of life. Those who have not experienced this are walking in their own sins.

 

[RichardBurger]

You are confusing the power of God with the ingenuity and ambitions of men. Those who surrender their lives to God are given a new life with a new nature that does not sin. We are saved AWAY from ourselves and into Christ. So a true Christian need never sin. That is...if he has learned to walk by faith rather than sight. The grace of God is sufficient to keep us holy as God is holy. We are kept from the evil nature through the power of the cross so that we may walk in NEWness of life. Those who have not experienced this are walking in their own sins.

So you are saying you no longer sin in the flesh. Well I guess that makes you the perfect man doesn't it. You can fool man but not God.

 

[Episkopos]

So you are saying you no longer sin in the flesh. Well I guess that makes you the perfect man doesn't it. You can fool man but not God.

Mock all you want...it is written about the mockers in the last times. :)

You are denying the gospel? Are you saying that those who walk in the Spirit will still give into the flesh anyway? The sinless state IS to walk in the Spirit. Paul wrote this type of exhortation to Gentiles.... ;)

Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Say you don't really believe this....

In an effort to make the narrow way wider, you contradict the one (Paul) whom you erroneously claim is the author of this heresy. Those who are IN Christ are kept by God's grace (power) away from sin. Will you now come right out and deny Paul's words?

Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Does this sound like a genaral amnesty and immunity from the consequences of sin as you claim...or the power to overcome sin?

Jud_1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. (yet trust in Jesus for salvation?)

You scoff at the truth that we can die to sin.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Your mockery is towards the word of God. Your scheme is un-biblical....anti-biblical really.

 

[veteran]

When is enough, enough? Richard has bombarded this Forum with multiple posts of the same old blasphemy of a double-gospel tradition from men like C.R. Stam.

I thought one of the Forum rules was that multiple posts on the same subject was not allowed???

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

When is enough, enough? Richard has bombarded this Forum with multiple posts of the same old blasphemy of a double-gospel tradition from men like C.R. Stam.
I thought one of the Forum rules was that multiple posts on the same subject was not allowed???

Nicely said.

 

[Episkopos]

There is an insidious short-circuiting of the gospel going on. The gospel of Jesus Barabbas...just accept the amnesty and forgiveness for sin!
There is no resurrection power over sin in the Barabbas gospel...because there is no cross and no death. It breeds "saved" sinners that have no power. Of such turn away.

 

[RichardBurger]

When is enough, enough? Richard has bombarded this Forum with multiple posts of the same old blasphemy of a double-gospel tradition from men like C.R. Stam.

I thought one of the Forum rules was that multiple posts on the same subject was not allowed???

One of the rules is that you are not to personally attack another's character. You are doing that to me. I strongly believe in what I teach just as you do in what you teach.
It is obvious that when you can't support your ideas you will try and get me thrown off the forum. Shame on you Mr. Policeman.

And shame on those that sit back and condone what you do by not calling you out on it. They are like those in the crowd that kept silent when they said crucify him.

You should be a Muslim in Iran so you could have me killed. WAKE UP.

There is an insidious short-circuiting of the gospel going on. The gospel of Jesus Barabbas...just accept the amnesty and forgiveness for sin!
There is no resurrection power over sin in the Barabbas gospel...because there is no cross and no death. It breeds "saved" sinners that have no power. Of such turn away.

Obviously you are not talking about me since all I teach is the power of the shed blood on the cross. Powerful enough to save sinners.

I am not teaching it is okay to sin as most here want you to believe. But I am saying that the power of the shed blood on the cross pays for ""ALLLLL"" your sins. Those in Christ have been purchased by God, and God will not cast them out. He will keep them forever. As the scriptures teach, God is greater than our sins and I believe it. No child of God WANTS TO SIN but they would be liars if they claimed they do not sin in the flesh any longer.

Mock all you want...it is written about the mockers in the last times. :)

You are denying the gospel? Are you saying that those who walk in the Spirit will still give into the flesh anyway? The sinless state IS to walk in the Spirit. Paul wrote this type of exhortation to Gentiles.... ;)

Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Say you don't really believe this....

In an effort to make the narrow way wider, you contradict the one (Paul) whom you erroneously claim is the author of this heresy. Those who are IN Christ are kept by God's grace (power) away from sin. Will you now come right out and deny Paul's words?

Rom_6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.


Rom_13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Eph_2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Eph_4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

Does this sound like a genaral amnesty and immunity from the consequences of sin as you claim...or the power to overcome sin?

Jud_1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. (yet trust in Jesus for salvation?)

You scoff at the truth that we can die to sin.

Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Your mockery is towards the word of God. Your scheme is un-biblical....anti-biblical really.

I am denying the gospel that you teach. I teach that those in Christ are dead to the law and since they are the law has no effect on them. The way you teach is that we are certainly not dead to the law because we have to keep it by not sinning.

I am, personally, tired of those posters that get on forums and try to tell others that they have to stop sinning when they can't stop sinning either.

However am not on this forum to be a policeman as some obviously are.

 

[Episkopos]

Obviously you are not talking about me since all I teach is the power of the shed blood on the cross. Powerful enough to save sinners.

I am not teaching it is okay to sin as most here want you to believe. But I am saying that the power of the shed blood on the cross pays for ""ALLLLL"" your sins. Those in Christ have been purchased by God, and God will not cast them out. He will keep them forever. As the scriptures teach, God is greater than our sins and I believe it. No child of God WANTS TO SIN but they would be liars if they claimed they do not sin in the flesh any longer.

Powerful enough to declare an amnesty against sin you mean. Jesus didn't just die to provide a free-for-all...He was resurrrected in order to impart NEW LIFE...a resurrection life that is created in true holiness.

Even Gandhi didn't want to sin...and a great deal more than almost any westerner. This is not the gospel. It's not what we want that counts. What counts is the power to NOT sin. You are stuck in an OT perspective. We are not just forgiven and sent on our way. Jesus Christ has prepared an abode in the heavens where we can abide WITH HIm. So we are now seated in heavenly places...not sinful heavenly places.

Your scheme has the same effect as the immunity given to the contractors in Iraq who are also immune from prosecution. It breeds lawlessness. That is the game here.

But through Christ we fulfill the commands of Christ. If you truly loved Jesus...you would obey Him.

 

[RichardBurger]

No. 1: Powerful enough to declare an amnesty against sin you mean. Jesus didn't just die to provide a free-for-all...He was resurrrected in order to impart NEW LIFE...a resurrection life that is created in true holiness.

No 2: Even Gandhi didn't want to sin...and a great deal more than almost any westerner. This is not the gospel. It's not what we want that counts. What counts is the power to NOT sin. You are stuck in an OT perspective. We are not just forgiven and sent on our way. Jesus Christ has prepared an abode in the heavens where we can abide WITH HIm. So we are now seated in heavenly places...not sinful heavenly places.

Your scheme has the same effect as the immunity given to the contractors in Iraq who are also immune from prosecution. It breeds lawlessness. That is the game here.

But through Christ we fulfill the commands of Christ. If you truly loved Jesus...you would obey Him.

No. 1: You are not free since you believe you have to perform in religion in order to be saved.

Galatians 5:1
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
NKJV

Romans 8:1-2
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
NKJV

No. 2: I say again that unless you have completely stopped sinning then you are only condemning yourself by what you preach. You can say anything on a forum and it seems, by what you say you believe in, you no longer sin and that means you no longer need the shed blood of Jesus to cover your sin since you say you have none. Therefore why do you need Jesus any longer?

You said "What counts is the power to NOT sin." So you admit that your abilty to not sin in the flesh is your ticket to heaven. You negate the gospel of grace that saves sinners, not those that think they are so righteous that they no longer sin in the flesh.

Jesus spoke to that idea in the story of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. I see you as the Pharisee and myself as the Tax Collector. How do you see yourself???

Luke 18:9-14
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector 9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,'God, I thank You that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

No. 1: You are not free since you believe you have to perform in religion in order to be saved.

Galatians 5:1
5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
NKJV

Romans 8:1-2
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
NKJV

No. 2: I say again that unless you have completely stopped sinning then you are only condemning yourself by what you preach. You can say anything on a forum and it seems, by what you say you believe in, you no longer sin and that means you no longer need the shed blood of Jesus to cover your sin since you say you have none. Therefore why do you need Jesus any longer?

You said "What counts is the power to NOT sin." So you admit that your abilty to not sin in the flesh is your ticket to heaven. You negate the gospel of grace that saves sinners, not those that think they are so righteous that they no longer sin in the flesh.

Jesus spoke to that idea in the story of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. I see you as the Pharisee and myself as the Tax Collector. How do you see yourself???

Luke 18:9-14
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector 9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,'God, I thank You that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
NKJV

So you interpret the Holy Spirit as religion? How ironic! It is your religious belief that causes you to grab hold of a non-sensical amnesty for sins where God is not like that at all. The soul that sins it shall die. So you are adhering to an anti-gospel based on a man made religious desire to be easily saved. It appeals to the flesh for it is the wide path of ease.

You can't realize that it is the Pharisee who claims to be justified...not the tax-collector. So you are claiming your own justification because of your position..just like the Pharisee.

The Pharisee will always say he is the tax-collector in the parable...because he sees himself as just. The true tax collector in the parable will always claim he is the sinful Pharisee. You see how the word judges us? Apparently not!

 

[RichardBurger]

So you interpret the Holy Spirit as religion? How ironic! It is your religious belief that causes you to grab hold of a non-sensical amnesty for sins where God is not like that at all. The soul that sins it shall die. So you are adhering to an anti-gospel based on a man made religious desire to be easily saved. It appeals to the flesh for it is the wide path of ease.

You can't realize that it is the Pharisee who claims to be justified...not the tax-collector. So you are claiming your own justification because of your position..just like the Pharisee.

The Pharisee will always say he is the tax-collector in the parable...because he sees himself as just. The true tax collector in the parable will always claim he is the sinful Pharisee. You see how the word judges us? Apparently not!

The story does not need to be interpreted by you. It speaks for its self.

Why do you want to put words in my mouth and then use them to attack me. I never said the Holy Spirit is a religion. That is absured!!!!

You manufactured this false saying so you could use it against me and yet you are on this forum telling me that you do not sin. The eyes of God are upon you as well as me.