If atheists get accused of taking verses out of context, how do we know fundamentalists making those accusations aren’t doing the same as well?

[Wrangler]

Jesus ... spoke about the Stone often and always using allegorical terminology as all alchemists do.

Can you provide an example of where Jesus spoke about this resurrection rock?

And just to avoid your further embarrassment the Stone is not a rock

So, among your growing denials is to deny that a stone is a synonym for a rock?

 

[Wrangler]

I already conceded that there could be designers of the life forms on this planet many pages and days ago. It obviously went over your head.

Nope. Just getting a 2nd bite of the apple.

While you are drowning in evidence, you fail to recognize the evidence all around you. In this last exchange, it seemed to me that you went one step closer to the truth, conceding a designer for BOTH, the Earth itself and all known life.

What seems obvious to any rational mind is that they were not created by any mythical all-powerful, all-loving perfect deity.

There you go again, attempting to define your way out of coming to terms with the truth. And the truth is there is a God - even if he does not meet your standard of what he should be or do.

Honestly, your reasoning is extremely sophomoric and Circular. Because my Creator has not acted in accordance with how I hold, he, therefore, does not exist?!

You concede there must be a designer to life but deny it is the God who revealed to us his Creation. If God did not create the Earth and the life on it, who did?

 

[Wrangler]

The evidence certainly does overwhelming prove the premise. You are just in denial.

Nope it doesn't. There is no such evidence.

The evidence is all around you! You cannot even answer the question of why the natural world obeys mathematical laws.

 

[Wrangler]

I believe there is something, a universal source, a cosmic energy ... That doesn't make me an atheist.

Sorry but it does make you an Atheist. You are trying to define your way out of this again. God is a person, not merely a source of energy. If you do not get this fact correct, nothing in your life will be right. Nothing.

This is why the 1C is personal. You will have no other gods (energy sources) before me. "Me" is a person. energy sources don't speak. GE 1:3 God said.

The whole Bible is the story of how God paved the way for you to have a personal relationship with him.

 

[Wrangler]

There is lots of evidence that YOUR particular concept of god does not exist.

1st, There you go again, trying to define your way out of this. God is not a concept or just an energy source but a person.

2nd, Prove it! Provide one bit of evidence that God does not exist.

 

[Wrangler]

Again that's proof of "a designer"

No! Math is proof of God not merely a designer.

 

[Wrangler]

I did not present evidence of a historical figure. I presented scientific evidence of a supernatural cause of the image on the Shroud of Turin. And far more profoundly, I presented scientific evidence of the moment of the resurrection, his literal first breath.

Nope. Again false. You presented evidence of something which you choose to believe is supernatural and that's just because you don't yet understand the science behind what caused it

Denial. Complete and total, utter denial. I do understand the science. I did present the scientific evidence. Did you even watch the video detailing the analysis from the university in Italy?

You just cannot admit it. Instead, you invent this alternative theory of a magic rock.

One other thing. Just because science can explain something does not make it NOT a miracle. You cannot have it both ways. Pick one:

1. The scientific evidence of how the images appear on the shroud of Turin is a miracle. But I, Lapidem, do not undestand the science.
2. A magic rock explains the science.

 

[Wrangler]

Nope, again there is no rock anywhere that I have spoken of.

Either you are lying or in profound denial.

Fact is Jesus had the Philosopher's Stone. I hold that Jesus had the Elixir Of Life

You have spoken of a magic rock. Yet, you have not proven your claim that Jesus had the Philosopher's Stone, the Elixir Of Life. The reason is you invoke double standards of proof.

 

[Wrangler]

until you have the "eyes to see" these things will not become revealed to you. Stomping up and down and having childish tantrums won't get you those eyes. You need humility, you need to "empty your cup" and relearn.

Projecting again.

You know the word forms, just not the substance.

 

[Behold]

That doesn't make me an atheist.

If you ever deal with an atheist they will tell you that you have no proof that God exists.

If you tell them that Original Creation proves God exists, as you can't have original Creation without a Creator........

They will think about that, and say... "well i just dont see it"...... And God knows that's true.

Also,
You can tell them....."well, you can't prove that God does not exist".

What i tell them...is..... until you know for sure that God is a cosmic ray and hell is a myth...its best to just be quiet and wait until you know for certain.

 

[Lapidem]

If you ever deal with an atheist they will tell you that you have no proof that God exists.

And by God they mean YOUR concept of god, the all-powerful all-loving concept of Christian dogma and they would be right in stating that you have no direct objective proof that this specific entity exists.

If you tell them that Original Creation proves God exists, as you can't have original Creation without a Creator........

They would be right in telling you that your "Original Creation" is a theory or belief that you have chosen to align yourself to and that again you have not one shred of objective evidence to support it. You are free to believe in whatever you want, Leprechauns, Santa, Fairies or universes being created in an instant by a spoken word. It's extremely unlikely that any of those are real things.

They will think about that, and say... "well i just dont see it"...... And God knows that's true.

My strict fundamentalist grandfather held the same indoctrinated view as this and as Wrangler's subjective reality. He would say just look around and you can see evidence of design. And that's fine. But the problem is whose design? Christians are not objective. They are conditioned to be subjective and emotional and so like all superstitious people they simply look for ways to reinforce their belief system. So if they see something incredible happen, they immediately attribute it to God rather than consider any alternative cause. It's right up there with horoscope readers. They will attribute anything to their horoscope to give it credence. Just how it is.

Confirmation bias.

See someone recover from cancer . . . it must be god at work
See someone die of cancer . . . nothing to see hear folks walk on

Also,
You can tell them....."well, you can't prove that God does not exist".

Actually you can. Or rather you can prove that the specific concept of god peddled by the churches, the silly all-powerful all-loving Santa Claus god, doesn't exist. And we've covered this ground already. Innocent 5yr old child, Jimmy Savile etc

But beyond this, yes, we can't prove that A GOD or entity or entities do not exist.

And FWIW I very much suspect that numerous entities do exist, whether they be highly advanced more evolved humans or non-humans.

until you know for sure that God is a cosmic ray and hell is a myth...its best to just be quiet and wait until you know for certain.

and similarly until you see objective proof of the Christian god, not subject to confirmation bias, then equally keep quiet and stop psychologically abusing other people with BS scaremongering.

 

[Lapidem]

So, among your growing denials is to deny that a stone is a synonym for a rock?

No I haven't said that. I've told you that the Philosopher's Stone is not a synonym for a rock or actual stone of any kind. It's a powder or liquid or waxy substance simply given the name Stone. Again, Elgin marbles. They're not glass spheres. This stuff really isn't difficult but you do seem to struggle. Is English not your first language?

 

[Lapidem]

Can you provide an example of where Jesus spoke about this resurrection rock?

I could but since you don't understand the allegorical language of alchemy what would be the point?
I mean this sincerely. It's like asking me to find a quote in Swedish when you don't know the Swedish language.

 

[Lapidem]

And the truth is there is a God - even if he does not meet your standard of what he should be or do.

No that's not truth, that's YOUR chosen belief. And you are welcome to it.
You can have your own beliefs, but you can't have your own facts.

Honestly, your reasoning is extremely sophomoric and Circular. Because my Creator has not acted in accordance with how I hold, he, therefore, does not exist?!

Reasoning is crucial to determining the truth and is that which you lack. There's no "my creator" in this discussion. All references are to YOUR concept of God, the god peddled by the church and indoctrinated Christians. As I have said I would never refer to my concept of universal source entity or energy as God because the term has already been so bastardised by the church.

You concede there must be a designer to life but deny it is the God who revealed to us his Creation. If God did not create the Earth and the life on it, who did?

Well at least you've finally started to ask the right questions!!

There could be one or more designers. Very likely multiple designers imho because there's little consistency to many things as already stated. Some good, some wicked, some clever, some clumsy.

 

[Wrangler]

you have no direct objective proof that this specific entity exists.

Wrong! There are billions of Witnesses and I am one.

Imagine someone saying they saw a tow truck take your car. Why would you continue to believe the car was stolen when you have a witness who can tell you which tow truck company took your car?

Except for the mountains of evidence, there is no evidence. Well, you got me there.

 

[Wrangler]

No that's not truth, that's YOUR chosen belief.

There you go again, dismissing evidence as mere equal belief systems.

No. I did not choose to believe this. God came to me. I experienced this and developed beliefs from that experience.

 

[Lapidem]

The evidence is all around you! You cannot even answer the question of why the natural world obeys mathematical laws.

Your perception of the "natural world" is merely a drop in the ocean of the vast universe around us. How do you know if planets 100 million light years away do indeed conform to your mathematical laws? I'll warrant that a black hole would stick 2 fingers up at this dubious assumption. The reality is that in truth there is chaos and occasionally you get pockets of order within chaos. But it should be obvious that any universe will have some type of laws that govern it and that doesn't necessarily mean it was by design. As we know from evolution, some things end up surviving and other things perish due to the environments and circumstances surrounding them. The ignorant look at say a humming bird and think it must have been designed because it's so perfectly adapted with it's long beak to get at the nectar in certain flowers. The truth is that there were 1000s of previous iterations of birds that didn't make the cut, that were less perfectly adapted and over many years they died off leaving just the ones we now see. That's how evolution works.

More importantly it only works this way because there exists chaos. It's the constancy of change, mutations, radiation, earthquakes, eruptions and so on that create environments that mean certain species can't survive. They're not perfect creations. They are weak, ill-adapted, fickle.

You should go read the book "The Greatest Show On Earth" but your indoctrination will make you steer clear because you have to only look at things which support your belief system.

 

[Lapidem]

Imagine someone saying they saw a tow truck take your car. Why would you continue to believe the car was stolen when you have a witness who can tell you which tow truck company took your car?

So by your logic, Islam is a true religion yes? And also Hinduism etc

After all there are billions of witnesses of such.

You see how yet again your absence of rationality and logic leaves you looking silly.

 

[Lapidem]

No. I did not choose to believe this. God came to me. I experienced this and developed beliefs from that experience.

Nope. You experience something. You have chosen to attribute that experience as coming from God.

Confirmation Bias

Every time you keep regurgitating this nonsense I'll just highlight the error of your thinking. Confirmation bias.

 

[Wrangler]

The evidence is all around you! You cannot even answer the question of why the natural world obeys mathematical laws.

Your perception of the "natural world" is merely a drop in the ocean of the vast universe around us. How do you know if planets 100 million light years away do indeed conform to your mathematical laws?

Appeal to Ignorance. More denial. We didn't get to the moon without command of nature.

I can see you are willfully ignorant, not merely not having eyes to see. And you change the goal posts at whim. 1st, you demand evidence. 2nd, you demand scientific proof - not merely court room quality evidence of billions of witnesses. Now, you are asking how we know there are not excepts to our (not mine but mankind's) observations of the natural world obeying mathematical laws.

All this is a dodge; an attempt to avoid the question why does the natural world obey mathematical laws. Pathetic. Your answer is deny. Speculate that perhaps the universe does not always obey mathematical laws. Just ignore the known universe. That's ignorance on a cosmic scale. You are profoundly ignorant. Worse, you are profoundly willfully ignorant.

I shake your dust off my feet.