22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine
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Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
So, you expect me to break everything down sentence by sentence when you don't come anywhere near doing that yourself. I see.
I have explained what I believe MANY times on this forum for all to see, so I don't need you to try to tell me what I should be doing.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
What I get is that you take everything out of context. 2 Peter 3:8 has nothing to do with the day of the Lord, but rather, in conjunction with verse 9, has to do with the fact that the Lord is not being slow to keep His promise of coming again. From His perspective outside of the realm of time, He is not being slow as some think.
2 Peter 3:8 does not say "one day equals a thousand years" as you imagine. It says that one day with the Lord is AS a thousand years AND a thousand years is AS one day. What that means is that one day is no different than a thousand years to the Lord. Why? Because He exists outside of time. He is not affected by time AT ALL. So, one day is not only AS a thousand years to the Lord, but one day is AS any amount of time (ten thousand years, a million years, etc.) to the Lord.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Oh, is it now? Really? Let's put that theory to the test, shall we?
In terms of the order in which it was written, this:
Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
Comes before this:
Revelation 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. 3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
So, you're trying to tell me that the birth of Christ and His ascension happened after the seventh trumpet sounded?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
No. Show me where scripture indicates that is required when you get water baptized. That is not what Acts 2:38 means. To be baptized in Jesus's name means to be baptized in His honor. Has nothing to do with having His name invoked over you when you are baptized. That's a ridiculous, childish way of interpreting Acts 2:38.
You know, it's not surprising that you would want to change the subject of this thread when we have thoroughly proven Premil to be false in this thread. I can understand why a Premil would want to change the subject to try to distract people's attention away from that.
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16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved...
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
This group of believers?
Oh, saved FROM water is your doctrine now?
Is that what the verse says?
Something like this?....
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved FROM water.
21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth NOT now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
The book of Revelation is not chronological. It is a series of repetitions. It is a number of recaps describing the spiritual battle going on during the intra-Advent period. How could Revelation be chronological when we do not read of the birth of Christ until Revelation 12? The millennium does not follow Revelation 17-19 in time, but rather parallels it. Revelation 20 is the last of 7 recapitulations.
Have a look at the unquestionable finality surrounding the echo of the seventh trumpet. This corresponds with the conclusiveness associated with second coming passages elsewhere in Scripture. Let us look at some of the all-consummating detail.
• “the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ.”
• “he shall reign for ever and ever” – not a thousand years or for a measurable time-span.
• The time of God’s “wrath is come.”
• We have a general judgment where Christ will “give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints” and judge the wicked at the same time. He will “destroy them which destroy the earth.”
• “the mystery of God” will be “finished.”
• “time” shall be “no longer.”
It is hard to see how the Holy Spirit could have made it more final. All the bases are covered. All the boxes are ticked. The finishing of “the mystery of God” at the “sound of the last trumpet (trumpet 7) ushers in the end of time (chronos) and the beginning of eternity.
Like this?...
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of SPIRIT and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
The introduction has begun.
Full implementation is future.
We only have a partial experience now.
We cannot even see our Lord Jesus yet.
It and He is invisible, but will be made visible as every eye shall see him.
FYI...there will be no blind during the 1000 year reign of Christ, nor deaf, nor lame.
No demonic interference.
No wars.
No lack of necessities.
Aren't you excited about it?
I am!
Here is what false teachers do...
Instead of giving us a line by line explanation, they generalize the chapter.
Red flag alert.
Context my boy....
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up....
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired,...
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
LOL. You have to be joking! You have a brass neck. Look in the mirror. I've never seen anybody who fails to do what they are lecturing others to do more than you. This is total hypocrisy. Take your own advice. Stop your evasive one-liners. Observers will see the deceit of your statement. They can follow your avoidance.
Chapter 12 is a description of the nation of Israel via describing Jesus' people.
Do you think the woman is Mary or Israel?
Matthew 26
27 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
So the new testament that Jesus gave His disciples was only partial?
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