The Crucified Flesh

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marks

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But in each soil the seed brought life but not long enough to produce fruit right ?
Born again and died again?

No, the only soil where the seed did what it was to do was the 4th.

Matthew 13:22 LITV
And that sown into the thorn bushes is this: the one hearing the Word, and the anxiety of this age, and the deceit of riches, choke the Word, and it becomes unfruitful.

He hears the Word, but the Word is not fruitful. Where is the new life?

Matthew 13:20-21 LITV
20) And that sown on the stony places is this: the one hearing the Word, and immediately receiving it with joy,
21) but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended.

Received with joy, but not with faith. These are having an emotional response to the Word, but it doesn't penetrate to the heart. No root. Again, where is the new life?

Here is new life:

Matthew 13:23 LITV
But that sown on the good ground is this: the one hearing the Word, and understanding it, who indeed bears and yields fruit, one truly a hundredfold, and one sixty, and one thirty.

Much love!
 

marks

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Brother-I'm leaving this thread-not edifying and I am tired of some here just philosophizing-John said: "That we may KNOW that we HAVE eternal life" and the counter-arguments are very aggressive-persuasive-using terminologies foreign to Scriptures

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
I was concerned this would happen if we got onto this topic. Too bad!

I'm not about to overturn the plain meaning of plainly stated teaching passages. Either you can know or you can't. Either the Word lives and remains forever or it doesn't.

Much love!
 

marks

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The warning passages in the NT are written to believers . It makes no sense they are for unbelievers since they are all addressed to the local churches, the bride of Christ. For any believer to not heed those warnings is basically saying to continue in sin that grace may abound is ok and ignore those warnings as if they have fire insurance protection . Faith and repentance are 2 sides of the same coin . Any faith without repentance is not a biblical faith. Scripture confirms this in the gospels and epistles.
I think we should talk about what it means to be born again, what happens to us in that rebirth.

Faith without repentance is an oxymoron, and those who have an "unrepentant faith" have a dead faith, and are not regenerate.

Much love!
 

ChristisGod

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Born again and died again?

No, the only soil where the seed did what it was to do was the 4th.

Matthew 13:22 LITV
And that sown into the thorn bushes is this: the one hearing the Word, and the anxiety of this age, and the deceit of riches, choke the Word, and it becomes unfruitful.

He hears the Word, but the Word is not fruitful. Where is the new life?

Matthew 13:20-21 LITV
20) And that sown on the stony places is this: the one hearing the Word, and immediately receiving it with joy,
21) but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended.

Received with joy, but not with faith. These are having an emotional response to the Word, but it doesn't penetrate to the heart. No root. Again, where is the new life?

Here is new life:

Matthew 13:23 LITV
But that sown on the good ground is this: the one hearing the Word, and understanding it, who indeed bears and yields fruit, one truly a hundredfold, and one sixty, and one thirty.

Much love!
I have been deconstructing from calvinism for the past couple of years and I believed like you above. My views have changed. See below how tulip( Calvinism the doctrines of grace ) effect our views on the parable. We cannot believe everything we have been taught and influenced by the Reformation, specifically Calvinism.


Matthew 13- The Parable of the Sower


1The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.
2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.
3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.


18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.


19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

T- man can choose to hear, see and receive the gospel
U- all can choose to believe and receive as demonstrated in the parable of the 4 soils
L- all soils received the seed without exception
I- 3 soils resisted all but 1 soil remained faithful and did not resist
P- 3/4 soils ( minds/hearts )did not preserver in the faith

* And as we can see they all had life to begin with in each soil. Only something alive can be choked. You cannot choke the dead lol.
* And only something alive can be scorched by the Sun and withered.
* Only someone alive can receive the word in the heart and have it snatched away
* Only someone alive can receive the word with Joy and endure for a while

hope this helps !!!
 
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marks

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I have been deconstructing from calvinism for the past couple of years and I believed like you above. My views have changed. See below how tulip( Calvinism the doctrines of grace ) effect our views on the parable. We cannot believe everything we have been taught and influenced by the Reformation, specifically Calvinism.
Don't fob me off that way.

Your no different from episkopos claiming I can't see past my "indoctrination". I'm not discussing reformation theology, I'm discussing the Bible.

Anyway, I don't see the profit in just leaving "the crucified flesh" to discuss whether we can lose salvation. We obviously have very different ideas of what "reborn" is. It will be a long and winding road, and I think it's unlikely we'll arrive at the same place.

I never was Calvinist. So you wouldn't have thought like me I expect. So maybe I'm the one that isn't being influenced, who is to say? At the end of the day, I'm all about what the Bible says.

Much love!
 

ChristisGod

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Don't fob me off that way.

Your no different from episkopos claiming I can't see past my "indoctrination". I'm not discussing reformation theology, I'm discussing the Bible.

Anyway, I don't see the profit in just leaving "the crucified flesh" to discuss whether we can lose salvation. We obviously have very different ideas of what "reborn" is. It will be a long and winding road, and I think it's unlikely we'll arrive at the same place.

I never was Calvinist. So you wouldn't have thought like me I expect. So maybe I'm the one that isn't being influenced, who is to say? At the end of the day, I'm all about what the Bible says.

Much love!
I'm talking about the parable of the soils and calvins interpretation . I know it all to well as I was indoctrinated by it for decades. You can start a thread on the new birth and I will gladly participate.
 

marks

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I'm talking about the parable of the soils and calvins interpretation . I know it all to well as I was indoctrinated by it for decades. You can start a thread on the new birth and I will gladly participate.
I have no idea what Calvin's interpretation of that parable is. I know very very little of what Calvin taught. Please don't inject someone else's views into mine.

I learned about this many years ago. I was tasked with teaching Colossians 3 at a weekend retreat. When I came to,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I became very concerned because of the extreme claim made here, that if you were raised with Jesus, it means you've died (ala Romans 6), and you therefore Shall appear with Him in glory.

Before I sat there and told a group of people that this is true, I needed to know for certain myself. And in fact the Bible confirms this plain statement with a number of others equally plain, with no direct contradiction, only a number of passages people claim contradict, but when I examine all of them, I've examined hundreds of verses people claim say that the spirit children of God may yet die, and none actually do say that. And a number actually say the opposite when you really look at them.

It may sound to some as though the different soils all knew regeneration, but the parable doesn't say that. It says that the Word was only fruitful in the one.

At the end of the day, if there were a passage that actually contradicted this one above, then the Bible contradicts itself, and what are we all doing?

Do you believe this passage doesn't mean that those who have been raised with Him will appear with Him in glory? Are you saying it means something else?

Much love!
 
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GTW27

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Blessings in Christ Jesus! A couple days ago I kept hearing "The Lord closes the mouths of lions." It was when I was reading post in here. It was very toxic. For some reason as I read my last post of the day and was going to log off and relax, I found myself praying out loud in The Spirit. I was actually praying over these forums. I have never done that before. I do not even know what was spoken but I do know it worked. What happened to the lions? Lol. Remember marks, "just pray". Good little group here.
 
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Lizbeth

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Not just incorruptible, but it lives and remains forever.

1 Peter 1:23 KJV
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

The seed on the path, eaten by the birds. Satan plucks it from their hearts before it takes root or bears fruit. These are not receptive at all.

The seed on the rocky soil, quickly received with joy, but no actual root, and persecution kills the sprout. The fiery trials that prove your faith genuine, and their's not. These like what they hear, but their's no root, it doesn't penetrate into them.

The seed on the thorny ground, the cares of the world prevent the Word from being fruitful. Again, they seem to want this, but in reality they want other things more.

Only the seed on the good ground bears fruit, being the incorruptible ingrafted Word, that lives, and remains forever.

Much love!
The seed that liveth and abideth forever is Jesus Christ and the word of God.

It does seem to me that there are those in the parable that do receive the word (and what does it mean to receive it/Him?)...but unfortunately they didn't endure to the end, or got sidetracked by cares of life etc. Anyway, we don't agree on this.
I have no idea what Calvin's interpretation of that parable is. I know very very little of what Calvin taught. Please don't inject someone else's views into mine.

I learned about this many years ago. I was tasked with teaching Colossians 3 at a weekend retreat. When I came to,

Colossians 3:1-4 KJV
1) If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2) Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4) When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

I became very concerned because of the extreme claim made here, that if you were raised with Jesus, it means you've died (ala Romans 6), and you therefore Shall appear with Him in glory.

Before I sat there and told a group of people that this is true, I needed to know for certain myself. And in fact the Bible confirms this plain statement with a number of others equally plain, with no direct contradiction, only a number of passages people claim contradict, but when I examine all of them, I've examined hundreds of verses people claim say that the spirit children of God may yet die, and none actually do say that. And a number actually say the opposite when you really look at them.

It may sound to some as though the different soils all knew regeneration, but the parable doesn't say that. It says that the Word was only fruitful in the one.

At the end of the day, if there were a passage that actually contradicted this one above, then the Bible contradicts itself, and what are we all doing?

Do you believe this passage doesn't mean that those who have been raised with Him will appear with Him in glory? Are you saying it means something else?

Much love!
It's too bad things got ugly. It didn't take long for the ad hominems to start, unfortunately.

Anyway, here's a passage to consider:

Gal 2:17-18

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

I don't know who all the warnings, exhortations and admonishments are for, if not for us. Otherwise we might as well just erase them from the bible and then we'd end up with a much skinnier version.
 

Keturah

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Absolutely, you guys are so spiritual-and have/hearing voices claiming it is from the Spirit.
I'm a sinner, saved by grace, and if you have a problem with me and my 'copy/paste" that's my business-none of yours.
Get that?
Holy Joe's sitting on a mountain smoking a peace-pipe-even I can smell a "fake" a mile away.
Maybe a kit-kat break is in order!

Better yet a prayer & examination of ALL of ourselves is in order of the day.

I forgive your attack. My copy / paste comment was NOT directed to you nor at you. I BELIEVED you to be a brother!
 
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ChristisGod

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The seed that liveth and abideth forever is Jesus Christ and the word of God.

It does seem to me that there are those in the parable that do receive the word (and what does it mean to receive it/Him?)...but unfortunately they didn't endure to the end, or got sidetracked by cares of life etc. Anyway, we don't agree on this.

It's too bad things got ugly. It didn't take long for the ad hominems to start, unfortunately.

Anyway, here's a passage to consider:

Gal 2:17-18

But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

I don't know who all the warnings, exhortations and admonishments are for, if not for us. Otherwise we might as well just erase them from the bible and then we'd end up with a much skinnier version.
Yes warnings in the bible are meaningless unless they are written to believers.
 

amigo de christo

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Absolutely, you guys are so spiritual-and have/hearing voices claiming it is from the Spirit.
I'm a sinner, saved by grace, and if you have a problem with me and my 'copy/paste" that's my business-none of yours.
Get that?
Holy Joe's sitting on a mountain smoking a peace-pipe-even I can smell a "fake" a mile away.
Let us read torah , the prophets , Christ and the apostles .
Let us go back many many moons ago to a time when JERSUALEM was about to BE JUDGED and removed into the nations
BY GOD .
Let us examine what most of the prophets , the false ones were preaching
Peace , smooth things , their message caused none to repent of their wickedness , by promising them life .
They made sad the heart of the righteous . They wanted nothing to do with the HOLY ONE of ISRAEL
and said away with him PREACH UNTO US SMOOTH THINGS .
They were preaching on times of peace .
The nation was in shambles , its leaders were fleecing the flocks and saying thus sayeth the LORD .
They were worshipping other gods , idols and still trying to play as though they worshipped GOD .
They had become as Sodom and no longer even hid their sin but celebrated it right in the streets .
And he who spoke truth made himself a prey unto their teeth .
NOW LOOK AT TODAY . And even back then GOD was sending true prophets to warn them to repent of their wickedness .
And they were persecuting them and putting some to death .
They were all about peace , they actually believed they followed GOD and saw the true prophets as enemies .
SO too with CHRIST many did this very same thing
SO TOO with the church . GOD always sends some to try and help the people
yet the many always see them as the enemies . Aint nothing new under the sun .
A JUDGMENT has indeed already began . Only most see it as an awakening as love .
BUT its a DELUSION . Its giving folks who reject , reject and reject GOD over to believe a lie .
And SOON the JUDGMENTS of GOD upon such a city , a state , states , a nation and nations and world will begin .
JESUS warned HIS own and HIS EVERY WORD is STILL TRUE TODAY and it STILL applies to the church .
HE warned us of the main thing to beware .
The number one thing . Beware of wolves that come to you in sheeps clothing .
Many false prophets shall arise and shall decieve many .
A time of great testing is upon the lambs . We are entering into the climax of all that was foretold .
The relative times of peace in the western nations IS COMING TO AN END . Real serious persecutions are coming for the lambs .
But fear not man or what he can do . OUR BELOVED KING has prepared a place for us . WE WIN for JESUS WON no matter
they do to us . JUST preach JESUS CHRIST and him crucified to the last and final breath .
 

amigo de christo

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Born again and died again?

No, the only soil where the seed did what it was to do was the 4th.

Matthew 13:22 LITV
And that sown into the thorn bushes is this: the one hearing the Word, and the anxiety of this age, and the deceit of riches, choke the Word, and it becomes unfruitful.

He hears the Word, but the Word is not fruitful. Where is the new life?

Matthew 13:20-21 LITV
20) And that sown on the stony places is this: the one hearing the Word, and immediately receiving it with joy,
21) but has no root in himself, but is temporary, and tribulation, or persecution occurring because of the Word, he is at once offended.

Received with joy, but not with faith. These are having an emotional response to the Word, but it doesn't penetrate to the heart. No root. Again, where is the new life?

Here is new life:

Matthew 13:23 LITV
But that sown on the good ground is this: the one hearing the Word, and understanding it, who indeed bears and yields fruit, one truly a hundredfold, and one sixty, and one thirty.

Much love!
The problem aint the SEED , its those who rejected it . As for me and the lambs WE GONNA POINT TO CHRIST to the last breath .
 

amigo de christo

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I did for 4 decades. I can smell his doctrines a mile away. Some people believe in some of them and don't even realize its part of Calvins doctrines of grace- TULIP.
TULIP . TWOLIPS . my advice is dont follow the two lips of calvin .
Stay DUG In the BIBLE instead . JESUS is with the lambs and He can grow HIS own church in wisdom and understanding .
 

amigo de christo

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Brother-I'm leaving this thread-not edifying and I am tired of some here just philosophizing-John said: "That we may KNOW that we HAVE eternal life" and the counter-arguments are very aggressive-persuasive-using terminologies foreign to Scriptures

1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Shalom
You haven't share your thoughts on the elect-but it's all good.
actually john sure did say that ye may KNOW . KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE
For there is only one way , one name whereby one may have it . JESUS CHRIST .
And my sheep are known of me and i give unto them ETERNAL LIFE . NO MAN can pluck them from me .
No man can pluck them from MY FATHER . I and my Father are ONE . THE LAMBS HAVE ALLL HOPE , FOR JESUS IS OUR HOPE .
 

GTW27

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What loving Father would not have warnings for His children. There will be some that wander away. And there will be some that fall into a pit. But will He not leave the 99 to go after the one? Some times He sends me after the one. On the other hand their are the promises. And these He keeps. What is missing here is the knowing of who is truly His. The Lord knows those that are His. It is those who The Holy Spirit has entered in. There has to be a fear and trembling when we are working out our salvation especially in the beginning. I did. With me, because of my calling, I can see the enemy coming. But this is not so for most of The Body. So we must be on guard as the enemy does not sleep. He is always plotting ways to make us stumble. But he can not change the outcome of The Lord's salvation for those that are truly His. So Lizbeth, you are correct, His warnings are important and they are for us, and marks, you are correct, you can not lose what you have, His promises are true. Long ago, The Lord addressed the the argument of once saved always saved verses you can lose you salvation. And He said, these are the wrong questions, but the real question is, are you really saved as most can not make Me Lord.
 

Ritajanice

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@amigo de christo is not judging, but reproving and correcting-and the bitter pill is not welcomed
The thing is though Brother, we are all seeking the truth..we don’t know if the person who is reproving and correcting, is correct in what they are saying to another member.this is a forum,only God knows that.

You don’t believe he is judging, as we can see from another members point of view, he was judging in their opinion/ belief .when you say” he isn’t judging, doesn’t make it the truth...that is just your own opinion and maybe others,..not all see it that way..that is all I am saying and trying to explain.

As we can all see not everyone agrees with each other...we are all a work in progress..

We all believe what we believe through the Holy Spirit,and how he leads us through scripture.....there are many different interpretations of scripture on this forum...that doesn’t mean, that yours or mine are correct over everyone else’s, as we can see, there is a lot of arguing over scripture, I am just trying to explain my point of view, in a respectful manner.

The same as, we must be birthed in the Spirit...it doesn’t say anywhere in God’s word that we must be converted in the Spirit/ Heart,or maybe it does, maybe you can point it out, then I will correct my error...if I am in error...we must always point to the word of God and not our own words ...which I’m sure I have also spoken many times and have been in error...only God knows a persons heart.i certainly don’t.

As I say, I’m definitely not looking for an argument..just respectfully explaining as I see it, others may not see my post as respectful......we all see and read posts oh so very differently..many different connotations in many posts and probably my own..which I am unaware of.

Scripture warns us against arguing

1. Philippians 2:14 Do everything without complaining and arguing.

2. 2 Timothy 2:14 Keep reminding God’s people of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.

3. 2 Timothy 2:23-24 Don’t have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.

4. Titus 3:1-2 Remind the believers to submit to the government and its officers. They should be obedient, always ready to do what is good. They must not slander anyone and must avoid quarreling. Instead, they should be gentle and show true humility to everyone.

5. Proverbs 29:22 An angry person stirs up conflict, and a hot-tempered person commits many sins.

6. 2 Timothy 2:16 However, avoid pointless discussions. For people will become more and more ungodly.

7. Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish controversies, arguments about genealogies, quarrels, and fights about the Law. These things are useless and worthless.
 
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Ritajanice

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And well said-pride is ever lurking in all of us, in some form and manifestation
Not quite sure what you are trying to say here Johann.what is well said pride?

Many thanks in advance.