Faith without works is dead

[Sabitarian]

James 2:10-11
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
KJV
In keeping with this point of scripture, the 4[sup]th[/sup] commandment is one of the ten; do you willingly break this one? Then you are guilty of all. This is the moral law and if it was hung on the cross as most of you suggest then there is no sin. Without the moral law there can be no sin, so make merry and do as you will, for there can be no sin without the law, as sin is the transgression of the law. As for me and mine we will serve the Lord.

James 2:12-18
12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
KJV
Please read 17-18 as they are the real meaning of faith. Faith without works is dead. So, just what does it mean to keep His Commandments?

James 2:19-26
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
KJV
I am sure that many of you will fight against these scriptures and your fight is with God as I am the messenger only. You seem to believe that if you keep the laws of God it is the same as being a Pharisee, but it is not, as they had their oral traditions and that was there down fall not the scriptures, as Christ told the people to do as the Pharisees told them, but not as they did. They taught truth, but lived a lie, by following those traditions. I just wonder if any of you understand where in prophesy we are. The tribulation is near and all is in place to fulfill all of the prophesies of God, right now. The one world government is in place, the mark is in place to be fulfilled soon if Obama Care is not struck down and Armageddon will begin if Israel attacks Iran, so how much time do you have to follow the commandments of God? Remember once the tribulation starts it will be too late.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[JLB]

Mark 16:16 -18

16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; 18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

These signs will follow those who believe... They will keep the Sabbath, they will not eat pork, they will keep as many feast days as are convenient...


Does your church or your religion teach or practice casting out devils or laying hands on the sick and seeing them healed.

These are the works of the New Testament believer.

Jesus said - 12 "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father.

Acts 10:38 ...how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.


Look at the works of the apostles, healing and casting out devils. Do you do those works?


JLB

 

[Webers_Home]

.
If faith without works is dead, then the inverse is just as true-- works
without faith are dead.

†. Mtt 7:22-23 . . Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Master, have we
not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in
thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them: I
never knew you. Depart from me, you that work iniquity.

The Lord's statement doesn't target Atheists, nor Hindus, nor Buddhists, nor
Muslims. No, it targets people professing to have prophesied in "thy name"
and to have exorcised demons in "thy name" and to have done many
wonderful works in "thy name".

In other words: the Lord's statement targets Christians-- and not just your
average rank and file pew warmers either, no, but rather, it targets the cream
of the crop; the celebrities of the Christian world; renowned for their
accomplishments, their piety, their perseverance, their love, and their dedication.
For example: Christians like Mother Teresa who pray up a storm, publish books,
travel the world, speak to crowds, win accolades, get canonized to sainthood,
build churches, operate hostels, orphanages, and rescue missions in
impoverished cities; and help out with Meals On Wheels, and pitch in to assist
with disaster relief.

What's wrong? Well; it's very obvious that though those people will have lots
of works to their credit they will be dead works because though they have an
abundance of Christian faith, they do not have saving faith.

Cliff
/

 

[romans7]

It seems there may be many forms of "faith" around. Faith without works is dead. Jesus said, "I have shown you many good works from the Father..." "...believe for the works themselves.." So what Luther or someone said about the book of James being an "epistle of straw" shows how people misunderstand.
Faith that is true faith can not help but to be accompanied by good works. That is the nature of it. You cannot be "in Christ" without "doing the works that your Father shows you", in our case read the Spirit of Truth for "Father". Christians are people who are "eager to do what is good". It appears much "Faith" is manufactured along the lines of doctrinal belief systems, instead of the "faith" that has the actual effect and reality of transferring people into the Kingdom of God.

 

[Sabitarian]

Rev 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
KJV
I wonder if most of you who fight against the truth of God have any idea of what this scripture means. The Word tells us the true meaning of it if you actually look for it and no there is no special group that has the knowledge, it is written in plain language for all to understand.

Rev 13:3
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
KJV
This is the power thinking to change the laws of God. The head that was wounded to death, but survived as the Papacy when Napoleons general took the pope, Popias IV, captive in 1798 thus ending the reign of terror inflicted upon the People of God. 50,000,000 Sabbath keepers died from the reign of terror in the 1260 years.

Rev 13:11
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
This is us kiddies, the USA in scripture.

KJV
Rev 14:8-10
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
KJV
This is the Protestant Churches, as they are the only ones left to fall from grace, as the Papacy and its followers has fallen previously. Are you one of these?

Rev 14:13
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
“O”, my gosh, there works follow them? What a deal, their works are expected, just because they are believers and are doing the same thing that Christ did, not to earn Grace, but as a follower of the WORD!

KJV
Rev 15:3
3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.
If all of the laws given to Moses were hung on the cross, why are they singing the song of Moses?

KJV
Rev 17:3-6
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
KJV
Again we see the teachings of the Papacy condemned by God and her called the Scarlet Whore. Drunk with the blood of saints and martyrs of the 50,000,000 that she had killed during her reign of terror.

Rev 17:12
12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
KJV
For your information this country is divided into 10 parts by the Elite of this earth.

Rev 18:4-6
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
KJV
Here you Christians are being called out of the daughters of the Whore and yes it is you protestants of all of the major denominations as they follow the teachings of the Whore. First day worship, Christmas, Easter, all hallows eve, all of these are from the paganism of the Whore.

Rev 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
KJV
Again we see works as a consequence of Belief in God. If you actually are a believer you are to do the same works as the Master, not to earn anything, but just because of your Belief.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[williemac]

The works of the Master, you say? Why not have another look at the original post. The quote from James concerning faith without works has a couple of examples. The first one is when Abraham offered his son and almost killed him. The second is when Rahab the harlot ( did you get that? a harlot) helped God's messengers and was spared as a result.

I have often seen this passage from James used to promote law keeping. However, the context does not bear that out. James wrote to those who were claiming to have faith, but he was repremanding them for their behavior. The only law he mentions is the Royal Law. If we examine his criticisims, we can see that they were not walking in love as a person of faith would typically be known for.

The examples of Abraham and Rahab are brought up to demonstrate a principle. This is what it is: whatever one believes in their heart will be proven by their actions. Rahab was promised protection from God if she helped his messengers escape. How do we know she believed God? She helped His messengers. Abraham was promised that through Isaac his seed shall come. How do we know he believed this promise? He was willing to kill him as instructed, knowing that God could raise him up from the dead to fulfill His promise.
Thus their faith was proven by their works..In fact, there is no indication that Rahab ceased to be a harlot. Figure that one out! What does the law say about that?

So in our case, what promise do we have from God, and what works would reveal that we believe the promise? The works have to be related to the promise. Here it is...We have been promised life. He who has the Son has life. We were promised the Holy Spirit as a garuntee of our inheritance. How would one know that we have believed these promises? Check out what the fruit of the spirit looks like.

The works in our case, do not get us anything from God. They simply prove that by faith, we have already received from God, His promise. This passage from James has nothing to do with keeping the law. Anyone can keep the law to his best ability, for any number of reasons. But on the other hand, a tree cannot bear apples unless it is already an apple tree.

The first priority is to become the new creation that God intends us to become. This happens by faith and faith alone. Then, once one becomes a tree of righteousness, he will automatically bear its fruit. This fruit does not comes from one's own resources.

James had a point. He observed their fruit and questioned their faith. He said for example, how does one say to another in need..." be warmed and filled and go in peace" and not actually attend to the person's need in any way? James was observing their behavior towards others. There are practical ways to demonstrate the love of Jesus to others. This is the context of his rebuke.

 

[Sabitarian]

williemac,
just for your edification i will post the original wording for this scripture.
NT:3551
nomos (nom'-os); from a primary nemo (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), genitive case (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle):

KJV - law.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright (c) 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Do you notice specifically[of Moses{including the volume}; also of the gospel]? Can it be clearer or do you have some other definition that you would like to share with us, which will also be proven wrong.
I suppose the scriptures in revelation do not mean the our works eithor or that we will be judged by our works as stated by the Creator.
You are as stiff necked as the Israelites and you will face the wrath of God soon. I was hoping that some of you would get the message and repent, but you have Catholic Doctrine so deeply ingrained in you that it is impossible for the truth to get through to you.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[williemac]

williemac,
just for your edification i will post the original wording for this scripture.
NT:3551
nomos (nom'-os); from a primary nemo (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), genitive case (regulation), specifically (of Moses [including the volume]; also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle):

KJV - law.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, Biblesoft and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Do you notice specifically[of Moses{including the volume}; also of the gospel]? Can it be clearer or do you have some other definition that you would like to share with us, which will also be proven wrong.
I suppose the scriptures in revelation do not mean the our works eithor or that we will be judged by our works as stated by the Creator.
You are as stiff necked as the Israelites and you will face the wrath of God soon. I was hoping that some of you would get the message and repent, but you have Catholic Doctrine so deeply ingrained in you that it is impossible for the truth to get through to you.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

I am disappointed but not surprised to see this reply. It is appropriate and necessary in the skill of doctrinal interpretaion to study the context in which a passage is used. The writer, inspired by God, wrote a letter to a specific group in regards to specific issues. It is only in reading through the entire letter can one prevent the all too common mistake of reading one's own doctrine into what someone else wrote to someone else. A mere word study can help if it is not clear what the writer was addressing. However, I alluded to the content of the letter, to which you gave no particular regard.

However, I will not try to dodge the issue of works. On the contrary, I will acknowledge that our works (deeds) in this life will in fact be examined by our Lord on what is called the judgement seat of Christ. I will also add that those who sit at this judgment are not being judged to decide their eternal fate. This seat is for the believer, and the purpose is to determine the measure of reward we recieve for our works. But as Paul taught, even if a person's works are burned...he himself will be saved...yet as through fire (1Cor.3:11-15).

Jesus Himself promised that those who believe on Him and He who sent Him, would not see the judgment that you are describing. (John 5:24) He who has the Son has life. Period. As well, He who has the Holy Spirit has a personal garuntee of his inheritance...period.

As for the voice in Revelation saying "come out of her My chidren".... this is a commonly misunderstood passage. This is not a command. We are told that on the day of the resurrection of the saints (1Cor.15:52), that there will be a shout. So what do you think He will be shouting? This is not a command, it is the invitation to come out of the world. It is also known as the rapture by some. If it were a command, it would more likely read.."get out of her". But the word "come" is used and is repeated elswhere in the letter.

In Rev. 14:14-20, we see two reapings, done one after the other. The first one is the reaping of the earth's harvest of those who are saved. The second is the reaping of those who will endure God's wrath. This is a picture of a pre wrath rapture. We are assured that we will not be around when the wrath of God hits this planet.

We will see just who is involved in these two reapings. It is not for anyone to pronounce God's wrath on me or any other person either on this site or in their own back yard. I will not be affected by your mis-labelling, or by your judgment. They are of no consequence to me. This is a debate forum. I can see that your agenda has never been to debate doctrine, but to indoctrinate. BUSTED!!!

Jesus said.." I AM the way, the TRUTH, and the life" . In post # 7, there seems to be some concern that the truth is not getting to certain people who sem to be blind to it.. But in Rev. 3, Jesus spoke to the lukewarm church who thought they were rich and had need of nothing. However they were missing something. He called them wrethced, poor, miserable, blind, and naked. Jesus councelled them to buy from Him gold refined in the fire that they may be rich, and white garments that they may be clothed, and eye salve, that they may see.

Does it make you wonder why He did not tell them how to do these things? Of course, in fact He did. In vs. 20, 21, He told them He was knocking at the door,and if anyone heard His voice, He would come into them and sup with them, and they with He.

The Truth is a person named Jesus. There are those who have a belief in Him but have not His life within. I really have to wonder about some who profess to have faith in Jesus, as James did. What kind of fruit would such a person bear? What kind of works would they demonstrate.

This debate about law is no coincidence. However, I would not advise anyone to make assumptions based on external evidence. We do not have sufficient information about another brother or sister to determine individual destinies. But Jesus did say that judgment is without mercy to those who show no mercy.

Make no mistake. There is a line drawn in the sand. There is a conflict between grace and law. As Paul said to the Galatians, those who are born of the flesh persecute those born of the Spirit (Gal.4:29). In the previous verses, he made it clear as to whom these were. In vs.23,24,he said that these were symbolic of the two covenants; the one coming from Mount Sinai, which gives birth to bondage.

Anyone want to know what bondage he was talking about? Go to ch.5, vs.1-4. Then go back and read post# 7. I shared on another thread about my experience with lawkeepers. Many have a sincere heart and motive. But anyone who connects our justification for life with works of law has landed on the wrong side of this covenant we are in. Say it ain't so, Sabitarian.

sincerely, in His love and grace, Howie

 

[brightmorningstar]

This is a common misunderstanding. One is saved by faith in Jesus Christ alone. IF one has faith in Christ then good works will follow because Jesus says if one has faith in Him they will do what He teaches and know the truth which will set them free and make their joy complete.
If one doesnt have any good works that last at all, then it wont be the result of faith in Christ. But even praying for someone is a good work

 

[Sabitarian]

The sign of God is the Sabbath or the fourth commandment of Exodus as this is the only one that fits the who what and why. The first day worship is the mark of the beast. "Come out of Her" is refering to the Scarler Whore as that is the focus of the scripture and the Whore is the Papal system of which her daughters follow in her doctrine of first day worship.
http://www.thesabbathday.co.uk/page4.htm
I am sure you do not want to read this as it will defame your doctrine, as well it should, but if you actually read to understand what is written it might open your eyes to the truth.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[RichardBurger]

Why do you teach out of a book that was written to the Jews? (James 1:1)

James was writting to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses.

The books written by Paul, the Apostle that Jesus sent to the Gentiles, are the ones that teach the gospel of God's grace. These are the books that Jesus intends for us in this age.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Richard Burger,

The books written by Paul, the Apostle that Jesus sent to the Gentiles, are the ones that teach the gospel of God's grace. These are the books that Jesus intends for us in this age.

LOL not according to Paul, read Romans in context.

 

[Sabitarian]

Richard,
If you are part of the Family of God, then you will keep the moral law, as it contains the sign of God in it and in the tribulation you will eithor keep the Sabbath or face the Wrath of God and shortly after the start it will be too late to change. Paul taught the same law as Christ as he was taught by Christ and had to unlearn the oral traditions of the Jews. If you come to Jesus you will need to come through the line of the Jews as Christ is the root and Gentiles are grafted into it if they do all that they can to keep the laws of God and that is where grace comes in, after you have done all that you are able to do. You fall far short of your own, but Christ goes all of the way to keep His Own.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[RichardBurger]

Richard,
If you are part of the Family of God, then you will keep the moral law, as it contains the sign of God in it and in the tribulation you will eithor keep the Sabbath or face the Wrath of God and shortly after the start it will be too late to change. Paul taught the same law as Christ as he was taught by Christ and had to unlearn the oral traditions of the Jews. If you come to Jesus you will need to come through the line of the Jews as Christ is the root and Gentiles are grafted into it if they do all that they can to keep the laws of God and that is where grace comes in, after you have done all that you are able to do. You fall far short of your own, but Christ goes all of the way to keep His Own.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Sorry but I disagree. In this age of God's grace the only sin that condemns is the sin of unbelief. If a person does not believe the message that Jesus gave to Paul then they will never enter the gates of heaven. Paul's message is that a person is saved by faith in God's work on the cross. A person eithers believes it or not. To not believe it is to not belief the word of God given to Paul for this age.

If you really look at it, the sin Eve commited in the garden was not the act of eating the apple but in not believing God. Eve believed Satan instead of God.

 

[williemac]

Richard,
If you are part of the Family of God, then you will keep the moral law, as it contains the sign of God in it and in the tribulation you will eithor keep the Sabbath or face the Wrath of God and shortly after the start it will be too late to change. Paul taught the same law as Christ as he was taught by Christ and had to unlearn the oral traditions of the Jews. If you come to Jesus you will need to come through the line of the Jews as Christ is the root and Gentiles are grafted into it if they do all that they can to keep the laws of God and that is where grace comes in, after you have done all that you are able to do. You fall far short of your own, but Christ goes all of the way to keep His Own.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

If this was the case, then why do the Jews need to come through faith in Jesus? You have mixed up the order by saying that grace comes through works. Grace comes through faith. Life is given prior to our walk with God.

This debate is the classic "faith vs. works debate" . The Jews were never justified by the works of the law. If they had been, no sacrifices would have been needed. No human being has ever erased sin from his being, through the law.

Here is the problem in your representation; If we are not justified by keeping the law, then neither are we condemned by not keeping the law. The contradiction is in your saying we are justified by faith but will afterward be condemned by the standard of law. As well, I would be very careful to not make the mistake of having one's confidence in one's own abedience to law. This is not where our confidence is to be placed.

No one will argue that we need to bear fruit. However, in the parable of the talents, they did not all bear equal fruit. In fact, the person who buried his talent would have been accepted if he had merely placed his money in the bank and collected interest. The illustration is there to show us that very little fruit is still acceptable to the master. This should come as a relief to even yourself, as you are decieved if you think that you are walking perfectly before the King.

The attempt to keep all the law is never going to be enough to qualify. The only acceptable qualification is moral perfection (righteousness). And I hate to burst your bubble of confidence, brother, but if you desire to be judged according to the law, you will fall short. Your own righteousness is as filthy rags, just like everyone else's. You had better think hard about that.

 

[Sabitarian]

The problem with you Christians is you are so use to having someone else tell you what to do and not actually checking it out for your self that you are ignorant of the law, both religious and secular. You go to Church and lap up what the preacher spews out to you with out reading for your self and keeping everything in context, as the whole Bible is in agreement from the beginning until the end, yet you say the laws established from Genesis and ending in Revalation do not apply to you now just because someone who relys on you for his living told you so. I receive no compensation for any of my words, other than being a good messenger for the Lord.
Just for clarification do you read prophesy? If you do read it have you any understanding of where we are in prophesy? Have you studdied the sign of God and found it in scripture? Sign, mark, seal all came from the time that slaves were held by their masters. The mark was branded on the right hand of the slave and it was identified as to who the slave master is, why they were the slave master and by what authority they were able to command the slave. Please find any scripture that fulfills all of these requirements all together.
If a police officer pulls you over for speeding, you believe that you must enter into a contract with him, which he understands and you have no idea of. Ignorance of the law being no excuse you are guilty until proven inocent. Where as if you truely understood that you are not bound to enter into a contract with him, as he requires your consent to bind you to a contract, you do not have to contract with him. Just an example of your ignorance of the laws of the land, just as you are ignorant of the Laws of God. We can not live without laws, however you need to know and understand which laws are necessary and which are just there to control us.
Such as the law that you must be 18 years old to buy cigarets, who does this law profit and why was it enacted? Cigaret sales were slumping very badly and the companies needed a way to boost sales. Wala, make it illegal for teens to smoke and they will become hooked and smoke for the rest of their life. Thus I come to my next premis, follow the money trail and all will be revealed. And one of my favorites, none are so blind as those who will not see! You Christains need to heed these warnings in order to become free.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

 

[mjrhealth]

Joh_15:12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

In this we will keep all the comandment because in Love we long to do that which is right. To keep one law you must keep all the laws, 613 of them, and I can gaurantee by the time you have read this post you have probably broken 5 of them.

1Co 9:20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law;
1Co 9:21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

we genitles never had the law, to go put ourself under the law is to tread the grace of God underfoot, it is the flesh and it cannot save you, You are either under grace or the law, which do you wish, it is your choice.

Joh_1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

In all His love

 

[williemac]

The problem with you Christians is you are so use to having someone else tell you what to do and not actually checking it out for your self that you are ignorant of the law, both religious and secular. You go to Church and lap up what the preacher spews out to you with out reading for your self and keeping everything in context, as the whole Bible is in agreement from the beginning until the end, yet you say the laws established from Genesis and ending in Revalation do not apply to you now just because someone who relys on you for his living told you so.

I think you may have me and others confused with someone else. If you really think that, of all Christians, then what kind of bubble are you living in? I would venture to guess that you should look into the mirror. Are you preaching that which you have independantly discovered without the influences of a teacher? I hardly think so. On the other hand, I have. I donot blindly believe what I am taught, but question everything and seek to find my own understanding. And yet, we are in opposition. Just what is it that you are thinking to accomplish by taking stabs at those who are in opposition? You cannot prove one iota of those conclusions you are drawing about another person. It is just hot air.

I receive no compensation for any of my words, other than being a good messenger for the Lord.

Jesus said..."why call Me good? There is none good but God".

Just for clarification do you read prophesy? If you do read it have you any understanding of where we are in prophesy? Have you studdied the sign of God and found it in scripture? Sign, mark, seal all came from the time that slaves were held by their masters. The mark was branded on the right hand of the slave and it was identified as to who the slave master is, why they were the slave master and by what authority they were able to command the slave. Please find any scripture that fulfills all of these requirements all together.

In John's revelation, he saw a great multitued standing before the throne; a multitude that no one could number. That is where we stand in prophesy. The sign of God is the Holy Spirit, whom God has sent as a token, a garuntee of our inheritance. Jesus said in John 15:15....." No longer do I call you slaves" . Why are you referring to slaves?

If a police officer pulls you over for speeding, you believe that you must enter into a contract with him, which he understands and you have no idea of. Ignorance of the law being no excuse you are guilty until proven inocent. Where as if you truely understood that you are not bound to enter into a contract with him, as he requires your consent to bind you to a contract, you do not have to contract with him.

What is your point? Our contract with God is not according to the law of Moses. Maybe yours is. That is your problem.

Just an example of your ignorance of the laws of the land, just as you are ignorant of the Laws of God. We can not live without laws, however you need to know and understand which laws are necessary and which are just there to control us.
Such as the law that you must be 18 years old to buy cigarets, who does this law profit and why was it enacted? Cigaret sales were slumping very badly and the companies needed a way to boost sales. Wala, make it illegal for teens to smoke and they will become hooked and smoke for the rest of their life. Thus I come to my next premis, follow the money trail and all will be revealed. And one of my favorites, none are so blind as those who will not see! You Christains need to heed these warnings in order to become free.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High

Free? Gal. 5:1...." Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. ...vs. 4.." You have become estranged from Christ, whoever of you would be justified by law; you have fallen from grace".

Hey, but thanks anyway for the warning. As for me, I choose to heed the words of the apostle Paul. I would rather not be estranged from my Savior, Husband, and King.

 

[brightmorningstar]

Its quite simple. It is faith in Christ alone that saves. Good works without Christ dont and faith in Christ manifests itself in good works, if it doesnt it isnt actually faith in Christ.

 

[RichardBurger]

If this was the case, then why do the Jews need to come through faith in Jesus? You have mixed up the order by saying that grace comes through works. Grace comes through faith. Life is given prior to our walk with God.

This debate is the classic "faith vs. works debate" . The Jews were never justified by the works of the law. If they had been, no sacrifices would have been needed. No human being has ever erased sin from his being, through the law.

Here is the problem in your representation; If we are not justified by keeping the law, then neither are we condemned by not keeping the law. The contradiction is in your saying we are justified by faith but will afterward be condemned by the standard of law. As well, I would be very careful to not make the mistake of having one's confidence in one's own abedience to law. This is not where our confidence is to be placed.

No one will argue that we need to bear fruit. However, in the parable of the talents, they did not all bear equal fruit. In fact, the person who buried his talent would have been accepted if he had merely placed his money in the bank and collected interest. The illustration is there to show us that very little fruit is still acceptable to the master. This should come as a relief to even yourself, as you are decieved if you think that you are walking perfectly before the King.

The attempt to keep all the law is never going to be enough to qualify. The only acceptable qualification is moral perfection (righteousness). And I hate to burst your bubble of confidence, brother, but if you desire to be judged according to the law, you will fall short. Your own righteousness is as filthy rags, just like everyone else's. You had better think hard about that.

You ought to read what I write. I never said "You have mixed up the order by saying that grace comes through works." Grace does not come by OUR WORKS. It was bought by Jesus' work on the cross; His shed blood. Not out works but the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. Please get it right.