Excuse me,brother, but you are quoting me from #15. It was a reply that I made to post # 13, which was posted by Sabitarian, who was addressing you there. In my reply, I told Sabitarian he was mixing up the order in saying that grace comes through works. Maybe you should also read what I write. cheers, Howie
Faith without works is dead
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We could all live under a rock or on a garbage can and jump out at anyone you please, to do what ever you want, as well and you are going to Heaven, right ? <_<
Once saved always saved right ? and them words are in the Bible ? are they
Paul could of said that, but he did not, did he ! it's not Biblical at all is it but just a man made load of tripe. :lol: And how's this, a Christian believes in Christ and does abide in Christ. and another believes and does not abide ? now the non abiding one stands back saying the abiding one is a fool. do you Richard believe that God will condemn the abiding one. -_-
We could all live under a rock or on a garbage can and jump out at anyone you please, to do what ever you want, as well and you are going to Heaven, right ? <_<
Once saved always saved right ? and them words are in the Bible ? are they
And how's this, a Christian believes in Christ and does abide in Christ. and another believes and does not abide ? now the non abiding one stands back saying the abiding one is a fool. do you Richard believe that God will condemn the abiding one. -_-
You use the word "abiding" which has no meaning without context. ---- Abiding in WHAT/HOW??????. Is it trying not to sin? Is it keeping belief, faith, trust, confidence in God's promise of salvation by faith in the shed blood of Jesus on the cross?
Tell us how you are abiding in Christ. Just saying you are adiding in Christ means nothing to me unless you say HOW you are abiding in Christ.
Many here on this forum and other forums say they are abidding in Christ by their works of not sinning (keeping the law) and in their religious practices. They will not say that a person has to abide in Christ by their faith in the works of God.
Sorry about that.
There are essentially 3 camps concerning works
1. The works crowd. Those who try to attain to God by being good enough. These don't understand that grace was provided to do this...one can never please God through the effort of the flesh.
2. The grace alone crowd. These don't understand the purpose of grace and use this to remain in the power of the flesh while claiming to have overcome by expecting Jesus to do all the work on His own. They are just hearers but not doers.
3. The faithful crowd. Those who receive the grace of God in order to do the will of God according to Christ. These are doers as well as hearers.
Now group 1 justfy themselves through the obvious hypocrisy of group 2 who do nothing but name and claim. Group 2 gets down on group 3 since they can't discern which works are from the flesh and which are the perfect works prepared in advance so they remain lukewarm.
1. The works crowd. Those who try to attain to God by being good enough. These don't understand that grace was provided to do this...one can never please God through the effort of the flesh.
2. The grace alone crowd. These don't understand the purpose of grace and use this to remain in the power of the flesh while claiming to have overcome by expecting Jesus to do all the work on His own. They are just hearers but not doers.
3. The faithful crowd. Those who receive the grace of God in order to do the will of God according to Christ. These are doers as well as hearers.
Now group 1 justfy themselves through the obvious hypocrisy of group 2 who do nothing but name and claim. Group 2 gets down on group 3 since they can't discern which works are from the flesh and which are the perfect works prepared in advance so they remain lukewarm.
So, to you, a person who is depending on the work of Jesus on the cross isn't doing what you think they should be doing. That attitude is the driving force behind the works theology. Jesus condemned men because of their lack of faith in God, not because of their sins. Those in the number 2 crowd are betting their eternal life in the power of God as shown on the cross and you wish to belittle them for doing so. -- How about you, are you depending on Jesus, or are you depending on your self?
All through my life I have heard the words of God, "I (God) am greater than your sins" and I will save you if you place your belief,faith, trust, and confidence in Me.
People should remember the story about the owner of a vineyard who, at the end of the day, paid all the workers the same wage no matter when they came to do the work. I believe some who write as you do are jealous that God would save any body unless they do as they say.
People who place all their belief, faith, trust and confidence in God's work on the cross are doing what Jesus told them to do in the message He (Jesus) gave them through the gospel of grace given to Paul by Jesus. These are not under the law of payment but of grace, a free gift.
You number 3 is true only if you wish to believe you are under the law (the law is based on works).
Hebrews 12:14 "[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Psalm 34:4 "Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Matthew 5:8 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Ephesians 5:27 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Faith without works is dead and works without faith is dead. Jesus wanted us to have that solid and unwavering belief in Him. He wanted us to be assured of our free salvation in Him. Galatians 5:1 states "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." What yoke of slavery was the apostle Paul discussing it was the yoke of sin and the law. The law shed light and punishment on sin but could not do away with sin. Sin still effects the believers life but by the blood of the Lord Jesus CHrist we are free from sin. But the believer can choose to continue to live in iniquity and sin and thus Jesus declares that one way for your faith to be true is by holy living. Not sinless or perfect living but HOLY living. 2 Corinthinas 7:1 declares "[/background]Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." We perfect in the progression of a holy and sanctified life so that the fruit of the Holy Spirit can be revealed in our life! LIVE HOLY!!
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Psalm 34:4 "Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Matthew 5:8 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Ephesians 5:27 "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]He did this to present her to himself as a glorious church without a spot or wrinkle or any other blemish. Instead, she will be holy and without fault."[/background]
[background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]Faith without works is dead and works without faith is dead. Jesus wanted us to have that solid and unwavering belief in Him. He wanted us to be assured of our free salvation in Him. Galatians 5:1 states "[/background][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery." What yoke of slavery was the apostle Paul discussing it was the yoke of sin and the law. The law shed light and punishment on sin but could not do away with sin. Sin still effects the believers life but by the blood of the Lord Jesus CHrist we are free from sin. But the believer can choose to continue to live in iniquity and sin and thus Jesus declares that one way for your faith to be true is by holy living. Not sinless or perfect living but HOLY living. 2 Corinthinas 7:1 declares "[/background]Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God." We perfect in the progression of a holy and sanctified life so that the fruit of the Holy Spirit can be revealed in our life! LIVE HOLY!!
So we are free but we have to keep ourselves from sinning?????
In my understanding, if we are free then we are not under the Law. It is also my understanding that since our sins have been paid for on the cross we have been reconciled to God through the payment of Jesus' shed blood. -- But most do not believe it so they cling to works to pay for their salvation. -- What does the scripture say? Abrams believed God and his belief was accounted as righteousness. In this age we are accounted as righteous before God when we believe, have faith, trust have confidence in God's promises given to us in the Gospel of Grace that was taught by Paul. But the religious do not believe in a free gift.
Under the law a person showed their faith but trying to keep the Law of Moses. James wrote the book of James to those Jews under the law (James 1:1) but the religious continue to try and put the children of God back under the Law. -- In this age of grace faith in Jesus' work on the cross is the only thing that saves.
So by being free do we keep on sinning? We just believe and show no evidence of our belief? If I am a Christian for believer in Jesus Christ then I should live a life like He did. Only God can keep us from sinning! He does not want us to sin but live holy. We can not get around living holy! Holiness is right! God is love and He is holy. You can not have one without the other. Holiness is empowering and liberating! Not having to live in sin but pursue righteousness is true freedom! You deny the very scriptures that state God's commands for His people and Christ believers to live pure and holy. Yes we are saved by grace through faith but He also states that the pure in heart shall see God and for without holiness no man shall see the Lord! We need to adhere to the whole book and not to things that support our lifestyles. God's law and command in Christ Jesus is to live holy and the fruit of the Holy Spirit are moral virtues of holiness. God the Father is holy, Jesus Christ is holy, the Holy Spirit is holy, the Holy Bible is holy, the gospel of Jesus Christ is holy, the Church is holy so as a result we should live holy! All God does is holy! We are not saved by works but our works should be a product and fruit of our faith! Our lifestyles should exemplify Christ more that just an intellectual ponderousness on God. Get out of theories and philosophical points and get into the word of God and see that there is a lifestyle that God commands of His people. Preaching the gospel is a work and should be done in holiness, witnessing of Christ is a work and should be done in holiness, prayer is a work and should be done in holiness. Faith in Jesus and His HOLY work on the cross saves us and produces a holy lifestyle of holy works!
There is one theme all through the entire Bible, "keep MY Sabbaths,"and the Son did just as His Father told Him to do. He taught all of the time, yet in the Synagogue He read from the scriptures that testified of Him. Now why did He teach in the Synagogue on the Sabbath if the day had been changed to the first day for worship? Paul also kept the Sabbaths as he was taught by Christ, so if the laws of God were hung on the cross, why was Paul, your deliver from the laws of God, always trying to keep the Sabbaths on the Synagogue in Jerusalem. Please find for me another place in scripture the conforms to the sign of God! NO! it is not the spirit as the spirit is just a part of God and not a separate entity, plus it does not conform to the necessary who, what and why. The sign of God make all of the difference as to whether or not you enter the kingdom, it has and always will be the defining point of the people of God. It makes them pecular unto God as it sets them apart from the masses. God has always kept a reminante for Himself and the percentage is usually 10% or less. If you are part of that 10% you need to understand the rules that define that 10% and make them different from the rest. The Sabbath is the defining point that makes them pecular unto God, as the rest follow the Papal traditions of paganism. An internet search will confirm all of this as the beginning of all secular day celebrations are from paganism. None of the secular day celebrations are in the Book and God forbids any additions or subtractions from the Book. I have posted these any times and none have ever posted any legitimate responses for them. The Sabbath is God's sign, seal and mark and it makes His people different from all of the rest of Christianity. It is the only one that answers the questions as to who what and why and there is none other that can do that. If you do not follow the laws of God you are lawless and will face the wrath of God. Paul followed the laws of God as Christ did and if you follow Paul as he followed Christ you will to. The only law that can be fulfilled is the sacrificial law and it was completed by Christ as the perfect sacrifice. None of the other laws can be fulfilled. The Sabbath's of God are Days of Unleaven Bread, Pentacost, Day of Attonement, Feast of Tabernacles and the first day of the new years is not a Sabbath, but a day of rememberance and the day on which Christ died, Passover. It was on a Wednesday, just before sunset and He arose at sunset on the Sabbath or 72 hours later. There is no scripture for Easter services and it is known that Ishtar was the goddess of fertility and the day is from paganism.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
Do you really believe you no longer commit sins of the flesh???????
Our holiness is Jesus the christ and we are placed in Him by the Holy Spirit. We are accounted as righteous (holy) when we have faith in Jesus' work on the cross. It is foolish to think you no longer sin in the flesh. - It is foolish to think you are holy because of what you do.
Jesus never said he came to abolish the Law, but to fulfill it, so he gave us the key that the Law's are to be governed from.
So you think you do not have to abide in Christ at all and i would think that is what Satan would say.
We a not to be confirmed to this world but in Christ.
It's the Spirit that guides us and yes we can fail but we do repent and by being sincere we are strengthened.
I believe we can be strengthened and grow in Jesus as our Lord, as he can come closer with us. as we hold his hand so to speak in our walk every day.
If i sat on my bum and did not seek in Jesus i would be so lost it's not funny.
If i had a moment where i could call on the Lord to help me from a falling into bad Sin, i would and i have found out that he sure does help. and it is a wonderful thing to be guided by the light.
I didn't say we don't have to abide in Christ!!!!!!!. It is HOW we abide in Christ that is in discussion. Do we do it by our faith or by our works?
Having faith in the work of Jesus on the cross, His shed blood, is how we abide in Christ. You can't have faith in Jesus' work on the cross AND in your efforts to not sin in the flesh. In you seek to be saved by works you have fallen from grace. You can't mix faith with works because it will destroy both for the believer.
I'd like to add my 2 cents, if I may.
I would like to point out something interesting, something that is not found in any bible translation except Young's Literal Translation. If we look at the endings of each gospel account, it speaks of another Sabbath rest. Please read these verses:
Matthew 28:1 "And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the magdalene...."
Mark 16:1-2 "And the sabbath having passed, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James and Salome, brought spices, that having
come, they may annoint Him, and early in the morning of the first fo the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre...."
Mark 16:9 "And He, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene...."
Luke 24:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices...."
John 20:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the magdalene doth come early...."
John 20:19 "It being, therefore, evening on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having being shut where the disciples
were assmebled, through fear of the Jews...."
It seems strange to me that all English bible translations translate the phrase "the first of the sabbaths" as first day of the week. And when
we look especially at John 20:19, it seems to be saying that the old sabbath has passed and the new Sabbath (Sunday) is now to be honored
because Jesus is our Sabbath rest and rose from the dead on that day.
I am not a greek scholar, so maybe I'm missing something. I would be interested to hear the input form others here. What think ye???
God bless, friends.
BTW, you can look up an online version of Young's translation to check this out.
Didymus
I would like to point out something interesting, something that is not found in any bible translation except Young's Literal Translation. If we look at the endings of each gospel account, it speaks of another Sabbath rest. Please read these verses:
Matthew 28:1 "And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths, came Mary the magdalene...."
Mark 16:1-2 "And the sabbath having passed, Mary the Magdalene, and Mary of James and Salome, brought spices, that having
come, they may annoint Him, and early in the morning of the first fo the sabbaths, they come unto the sepulchre...."
Mark 16:9 "And He, having risen in the morning of the first of the sabbaths, did appear first to Mary the Magdalene...."
Luke 24:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices...."
John 20:1 "And on the first of the sabbaths, Mary the magdalene doth come early...."
John 20:19 "It being, therefore, evening on that day, the first of the sabbaths, and the doors having being shut where the disciples
were assmebled, through fear of the Jews...."
It seems strange to me that all English bible translations translate the phrase "the first of the sabbaths" as first day of the week. And when
we look especially at John 20:19, it seems to be saying that the old sabbath has passed and the new Sabbath (Sunday) is now to be honored
because Jesus is our Sabbath rest and rose from the dead on that day.
I am not a greek scholar, so maybe I'm missing something. I would be interested to hear the input form others here. What think ye???
God bless, friends.
BTW, you can look up an online version of Young's translation to check this out.
Didymus
Didymus,
You are grasping at straws, as God does nothing in secret, so no singular interpreitation is means anything. if God wanted to change the day of worship you would have read of the change in the old testemate long before it happened as all other differentations in the law were made. Circumcision, of the heart, was foretold long before it was implemented. The allowance for the Word of God to go to the Gentiles was foretold long before it was implemented. This is how any change is made by God, not by some inferance to a single scripture. Christ died on Passover on a Wednesday, not a holy day, but a day of rememberance, at sunset or the beginning of Thursday. Thursday was a high holy day, the Days of Unleaven Bread. Friday was the preperation day for the weekly Sabbath. Saturday was the weekly Sabbath and at sunset was the first time that the women had time to revisit the tomb. It was still the Days of Unleaven Bread until the next Wednesday, which was a high holy day also. All of the days between high holy days were part of the Days of Unleaven Bread and yes still Sabbath's. Sunday was not another Sabbath, but still the Days of Unleaven bread and a Sabbath because of this. Before you post you need to understand what you are saying so you do not cause another to fall because of your words.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
You are grasping at straws, as God does nothing in secret, so no singular interpreitation is means anything. if God wanted to change the day of worship you would have read of the change in the old testemate long before it happened as all other differentations in the law were made. Circumcision, of the heart, was foretold long before it was implemented. The allowance for the Word of God to go to the Gentiles was foretold long before it was implemented. This is how any change is made by God, not by some inferance to a single scripture. Christ died on Passover on a Wednesday, not a holy day, but a day of rememberance, at sunset or the beginning of Thursday. Thursday was a high holy day, the Days of Unleaven Bread. Friday was the preperation day for the weekly Sabbath. Saturday was the weekly Sabbath and at sunset was the first time that the women had time to revisit the tomb. It was still the Days of Unleaven Bread until the next Wednesday, which was a high holy day also. All of the days between high holy days were part of the Days of Unleaven Bread and yes still Sabbath's. Sunday was not another Sabbath, but still the Days of Unleaven bread and a Sabbath because of this. Before you post you need to understand what you are saying so you do not cause another to fall because of your words.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
I know that anyone who preaches the keeping of the OT law in order to be saved is preaching false doctrine. Christ lived a perfect life of obedience on our behalf and took the penalty of the law that we deserved. He is now our sabbath rest. You have fallen from grace if you rely on your works to save you, no matter how small or large.
God bless.
Didymus
God bless.
Didymus
Didymus,
It is clear that you have no idea of which you speak, as you have not read any of what is written, nor any of the explination as to why we keep the laws of God. IT IS NOT TO EARN ANYTHING, IT IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM! Please try to get it through your head that the law does not earn us anything and we understand that and it just fine with us, for we do not do it to earn anything and yes we realize that grace is a free gift, but it is not given to those who are lawless, as His one bone of contention all of the way from beginning to end of the Book is His Sabbaths. The 4th commandment is the SIGN of God as it is the only place in scripture that fulfills all of the requirements for a sign, seal, mark. this will be the deciding factor in the tribuation, as to are you for God or against Him. Which side are you going to be on?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
It is clear that you have no idea of which you speak, as you have not read any of what is written, nor any of the explination as to why we keep the laws of God. IT IS NOT TO EARN ANYTHING, IT IS BECAUSE WE LOVE HIM! Please try to get it through your head that the law does not earn us anything and we understand that and it just fine with us, for we do not do it to earn anything and yes we realize that grace is a free gift, but it is not given to those who are lawless, as His one bone of contention all of the way from beginning to end of the Book is His Sabbaths. The 4th commandment is the SIGN of God as it is the only place in scripture that fulfills all of the requirements for a sign, seal, mark. this will be the deciding factor in the tribuation, as to are you for God or against Him. Which side are you going to be on?
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
Let me ask you a couple of questions, if I may. What is your belief about Jesus Christ? Is He God? Do you believe that the Godhead is comprised of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and that they are all equally God?
Didymus
God bless
Didymus,
Christ was with the Father from the beginning and equal to Him. They are a dualality and the Spirit is just part of the God Head as the original lnaguage testifies to. The trinity is a concoction of the RCC and part of their pagan doctrine.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
Christ was with the Father from the beginning and equal to Him. They are a dualality and the Spirit is just part of the God Head as the original lnaguage testifies to. The trinity is a concoction of the RCC and part of their pagan doctrine.
humble servant of the Lord God Most High
You are pointing to "your works doctrine" our works don't cut it at all richard.
The works i am on about are "in Christ".
If you pray to Christ is that a work ?
Faith without the works is dead, is biblical.
Why people rant and rave about rejecting it is just madness to me as they are pushing a load of rubbish about my works nonsense and can't get past the true fact that no one is saying such a load of hog wash.
If one did not have faith, you would not have works in Christ at all.
Someone doing his own works would be just a Joke !
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