One baptism. Not two.

[amigo de christo]

Let all that has breath praise and thank the glorious Lord .

 

[face2face]

Apostle Paul was Baptized in the Holy Spirit, to which he refers as "one baptism" = the One that Counts

So you believe Paul wasn't baptised in water like Christ...interesting.

 

[face2face]

You all really need to read and study Romans 6!

I see why you play down the ritual, "I get it!" but its not what the Apostle Paul did in his teaching! You need to acknowledge this in keeping with the Inspired Word. Paul believed total immersion was required to fulfill the symbol of burial. A burial pre-supposes that death has already occurred, so that baptism (like the sign of circumcision in the flesh) is really only the outward manifestation of an inward conviction.

Why would you diminish the outward, if it dramatizes what has already occurred within?!

The gospel message must affect a person, that he/she recognises the need to destroy the impact of sin in their life. Such "hearing of the Word" as Rom 10:17 energises faith and removes ignorance. Can it remove the ignorance here that water baptism is the question?

In a way baptism can be likened to the seal on the Lords tomb! Mat 27:60,66, baptism is a seal of faith "placed upon" the person submitting to Christ and which confirms the death of the one within.

I've never understood modern Christians fixation with water baptism, as though they have found some hidden wisdom not already taught!

Move on in faith!

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

So you believe Paul wasn't baptised in water like Christ...interesting.

i never said that

Paul speaks about being water baptized and he also speaks of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

What is the MAIN OPENING ACT of Acts?
water baptism or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Did God promise us water baptism or did HE promise us the Holy Spirit?

Peace and Good Night

 

[face2face]

i never said that

Paul speaks about being water baptized and he also speaks of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit

What is the MAIN OPENING ACT of Acts?
water baptism or the Baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Did God promise us water baptism or did HE promise us the Holy Spirit?

Peace and Good Night

Okay, I see your confusion.

First of all, they all had the water baptism of John, which was for repentance, but now they were being called to a greater mission under Christ for that reason his disciples would be given additional power to place such an important testimony before the public.

Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you (carefully note who!) will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

They previously possessed the Holy Spirit and performed miracles as per Matt 10:7-8, but had not been "baptised" with it.

Once baptised, they could confer the power to others, read Acts 8:18. The Spirit also helped them in understanding, and in bringing all things to remembrance (John 14:26).

Out of interest, do you believe you have been given the same baptism in the Holy Spirit, as these men?

Have you been given additional power? has your mind able to bring all things to remembrance? Are you able to perform the miracles they did? Are you able to pass these abilities onto others???

There is much more to discuss but I will leave it there for now.

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

Okay, I see your confusion.

First of all, they all had the water baptism of John, which was for repentance, but now they were being called to a greater mission under Christ for that reason his disciples would be given additional power to place such an important testimony before the public.

Acts 1:5 for John baptized with water, but you (carefully note who!) will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from n
They previously possessed the Holy Spirit and performed miracles as per Matt 10:7-8, but had not been "baptised" with it.

Once baptised, they could confer the power to others, read Acts 8:18. The Spirit also helped them in understanding, and in bringing all things to remembrance (John 14:26).

Out of interest, do you believe you have been given the same baptism in the Holy Spirit, as these men?

Have you been given additional power? has your mind able to bring all things to remembrance? Are you able to perform the miracles they did? Are you able to pass these abilities onto others???

There is much more to discuss but I will leave it there for now.

F2F

Now i SEE your confusion!

You believe the only people who were Baptized in the Holy Spirit were the Apostles.

 

[face2face]

A major issue for the Modern Christian is Romans 6:4

Therefore we are buried with him by (water) baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life

Those words "that like" should ring in the ears of every Christian in this forum.

The whole baptismal event is designed to elevate the Father in honor and praise and here we have members poo pooing it.

Wow....its a lack of understanding really.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Now i SEE your confusion!

You believe the only people who were Baptized in the Holy Spirit were the Apostles.

Did I say that?

 

[gpresdo]

Water baptism is outward and cannot SAVE.

Water baptism is the same principle as the OT law = it is outward and cannot SAVE the person on the 'Inward Man'.

Anyone can join a church and be water baptized. This in and of itself is just outward ritual.

When a person is SAVED, it is thru 'faith' in hearing the words of God which are Spirit and they are Life.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Are you suggesting the act of repentance is just a ,,,"outward thin
g"...?

I strongly suggest you study post #15 this thread.
Baptism is the final step of repentance by sin cleansing.

 

[gpresdo]

Water baptism is outward and cannot SAVE.

Water baptism is the same principle as the OT law = it is outward and cannot SAVE the person on the 'Inward Man'.

Anyone can join a church and be water baptized. This in and of itself is just outward ritual.

When a person is SAVED, it is thru 'faith' in hearing the words of God which are Spirit and they are Life.

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ 8The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

Suggest you study post #15 this thread.

 

[face2face]

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Everything in this post was spot on, except for the above. Lie's only come from the flesh, which is your adversary! The Christian fallen angel theology is one of the largest deceptions in Christianity. Matthew 15:19 - read , study and understand where lies come from!
F2F

 

[face2face]

Baptism is the final step of repentance by sin cleansing.

It's actually the first step!

Romans 6:4 After Baptism...."Should walk in newness of life" Conforming to the pattern the Lord Jesus has already set. He told Peter, who had ideas of glory without sacrifice! to "get thee behind me satan (adversary)" Mat 16:23 — to walk in step, and not wander off to speculative paths adverse to the divine plan of salvation.

Later Peter instructed disciples that Christ has "left us an example, that ye should follow his steps" (1 Pet. 2:21). That pathway
cannot avoid crucifixion (those who are his crucify the flesh), but will result at his return in glorious liberty and renewed nature. Dont forget "you are risen with him" (Col 2:12), and must endeavor to manifest (reveal) the same devotion and dedication that he did.

F2F

 

[Gottservant]

one baptism replaces another - so there is one baptism, with a number of stages

 

[Ritajanice]

It “symbolizes death, burial, and resurrection, and can only be done by immersion” (Bible Dictionary, “Baptism”). Going under the water represents the death and burial of Jesus Christ, but it also represents the death of our natural selves (see Romans 6:3–6).

Whereas being Birthed in the Spirit....can only be carried out by the Holy Spirit...that is the rebirth / regeneration/ Born Again...that saves us from eternal damnation, ....it’s a living spiritual birth....

Water Baptism does NOT save.....it is what it says above.

 

[Ritajanice]

It's actually the first step!

The first step to what?

The first step is initiated by God, he in his mercy and grace decides who he births in the Spirit..we don’t choose to become Born Again.....it’s not an act that any human can perform, being birthed in the Spirit..it’s an act of God,Through the power of the Holy Spirit ..imo/ belief

 

[Ritajanice]

Instead of laughing..@face2face ...why not discuss the topic at hand.

I’m up for it are you?

At least tell me why you think my post is funny..it’s called communication?

The first step is what?...I ask again.

For a start @face2face what is God’s word saying here?

John 3:6​

​

King James Version​

​

​

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

 

[Ritajanice]

Everything in this post was spot on, except for the above. Lie's only come from the flesh, which is your adversary! The Christian fallen angel theology is one of the largest deceptions in Christianity. Matthew 15:19 - read , study and understand where lies come from!
F2F

Lies only come from the flesh.?

What is the flesh @face2face ?

Brought from Death to Life

The Lord told Nicodemus unequivocally, “That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit” (John 3:6). Only the Spirit of the living God can take dry bones, dead in trespasses and rebellion against God, and make them spiritually alive (Ephesians 2:1-5).

John 3:3-8​

​

King James Version​

​

​

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

 

[mailmandan]

gpresdo said:
God's word is the same......even on a different forum.........you are wrong...again;

Which other forum do you know me from? It's those who teach salvation by water baptism (Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites etc..) who are wrong.

Water Baptism is Required

Show me just one verse in the Bible which says, "whoever is not water baptized will not be saved." I'll be waiting.

Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase, he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY the wicked in Noah's day came in contact with the water and they all perished.

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.

If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins......

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:47)

In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47. This is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So, the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing scripture with scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - Acts 22:16--Baptism Essential for Salvation?

Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Galatians 3:26 - For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus (period.) Not through faith and water baptism. Also read John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name. *Received Him, given the right to become children of God, through believing in His name, not through water baptism.

Galatians 3:27 - For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on/clothed yourself with Christ. The Greek word for "put on" is "enduo" and means to enclose oneself in, as when one "puts on" clothes or armor or some other item. Involved in this is the idea of "imitation" and "identification." Just as 1 Corinthians 10:2 says that all (the Israelites) were "baptized into Moses" in the cloud and in the sea, but this does not mean that the Israelites were literally water baptized into the body of Moses.

Spirit baptism is the reality and water baptism is the picture of the reality. So how does one "put on" Christ in baptism? Is it because one becomes a "child of God" through water baptism? NO. Is Paul saying that we become children of God by water baptism as much as children of God by faith in Christ? NO. "Let us therefore cast off the works of darkness and let us put on the armor of light...put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfill the lusts thereof." (Romans 13:12,14) This exhortation is written to Christians (those already saved). Evidently then, baptism is not the only way to "put on" Christ. To "put on" Christ is to conform to Him, imitate Him. So it is in baptism; we "put on" Christ, conforming to Him in the ordinance that declares Him to be our Savior. So if "put on" Christ means saved through water baptism, apparently, we are not saved yet. We must also "put on" Christ by making no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts in order to be saved as well. (Romans 13:14) Right? NO. This exhortation is to those ALREADY SAVED.

CONTINUED...

 

[mailmandan]

gpresdo said:
KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief and not on a lack of baptism.

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

gpresdo said:
KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

Jesus was water baptized by John and this was a part of Him fulfilling all righteousness, so water baptism is a work of righteousness, yet we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. (Titus 3:5)

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

In Matthew 28:19, Jesus tells His disciples to go and make disciples of all the nations and baptize them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, yet nothing is said here about baptism being absolutely necessary for salvation.

Acts 10;47-48...
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

They were commanded to be baptized AFTER they believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit, spoke in tongues (spiritual gift that is ONLY for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE receiving water baptism.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Baptized AFTER they believed and were saved. Also see Acts 4:4 and 5:14.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

In regard to Acts 19:2, their answer to Paul's question, “we have not so much as heard whether there is a Holy Spirit” demonstrated that they did not yet believe on Christ Jesus unto salvation. Paul further asked, "into what then were you baptized? They said, “into John’s baptism.” Then Paul said, “John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.”

When they heard this, they were afterwards baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. There would have been no need to re-baptize them if they had already believed on Christ Jesus unto salvation. These disciples of John needed further instructions to become believers on Christ Jesus then afterwards, they received the Holy Spirit after Paul laid hands on them (which is the exception, not the rule in every case of conversion, as in Acts 2 and Acts 10).

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

In regard to water baptism in John 3:22, by this time Jesus' conversation with Nicodemus is over with and He has moved on. John 3:22 - After these things Jesus and His disciples came into the land of Judea, and there He was spending time with them and baptizing. Verse 22 is out of context with verse 5. What is still in context with verse 5 is verses 14-18.

John 3:14 - And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. 18 He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. *What happened to baptism?

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

That sounds like something a CoC preacher would say and NOT a Baptist minister. Not convinced so not noteworthy.

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized. His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul explains the picturesque language in regard to water baptism.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

As Greek scholar (and Christian) AT Robertson states: A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

New age religion? How ludicrous.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Satan knows that Jesus Christ is the only way (John 10:9; 14:6; Acts 4:12) and as long as he can keep you from TRUSTING IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION, he has you right where he wants you! (John 3:18; Romans 1:16; 4:5-6)

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).

Your eisegesis here is not an accurate interpretation of Revelation 22:19.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is one baptism in the churches of God.

"...One Lord, one faith, one baptism..."
— (Ephesians 4:5).

It is a baptism of water and of the Spirit. As it is written:

this is two baptisms

water

spirit

"...Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, AND renewing of the Holy Ghost..."
— (Titus 3:5).

It is by the washing of regeneration (baptism in the name of the Lord) that we were buried with Christ in baptism. And it is by the renewing of the Holy Ghost (receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost) that we were risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. As it is written:

"...In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses..."
— (Colossians 2:11-13).

This is how men and women become christians. They repent and are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; because the blood of Jesus Christ:

"...Is shed for many for the remission of sins."
— (Matthew 26:28).

And they receive the Holy Ghost which will cause them to speak with tongues, and prophesy. As it is written:

"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
— (Mark 16:17-18).

you are adding a work of water baptism to the work of God in spirit baptism.

only one saves