Jim B
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 2:8 begins with "For by grace you have been saved through faith". Notice the verb tense -- present perfect. That is the opposite of your saying "Jesus requires works or he won't save us".
Righteousness is thru our faith and our works
- Thread starter Raccoon1010
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Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
What works?
Good Deeds are important but you are not justified by them.....if so Christ would not have had to be crucified and you do not need Him to be saved.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Your better off getting away from the word works because it has confused people for centuries.
Some people think works means moral behavior.
Some people believe that works means Good Deeds....helping people....charity.
And when the New Testament scriptures refer to it.....it generally means obedience to the Mosaic Laws.
Justified by faith....definitely!
But according to the Parable about the sheep and the goats.....if you do not help the people you can....you will be justified in hell.
Help those that you can help.
It is like church donations if you can only give a penny....give a penny. A little to charity...time to the church or charity
The last part is certainly true. The Bible definition of sinning is transgression of God's law. (1 John 3)
The first part however leads to your true Bible teaching, that keeping the law outwardly only is not rewarded with resurrection unto everlasting life. The obedient rich man denied Jesus by the work of unbelief in not obeying His call to follow Him personally.
The rich man wanted to do some great thing more than keeping the law blameless, but on his own terms. He was not living by the faith of Jesus, but by his own will. Any man can keep any law by force of will, but that is not the life God justifies and rewards with eternal salvation.
Only the life full of good works by the love and faith of Jesus from a pure heart is justified by God resurrected to walk with Him forever.
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Do you have Bible for this? The only debt of works we still owe is after having done only what we were commanded to do.
So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.
Also, Jesus was speaking personally to the rich men at a time when the Lord calls him to leave all and follow Him. Making that some sort of common call to all believers in Jesus Christ, is the reason many sincere yet foolish Christians leave all for ministry and make a mess of things. They also forsake careers that God wanted to bless them in while walking uprightly before Him. Jesus Himself was commanded by the Father to return with His parents, until He had profited with the same promise to Joshua (Joshua 1:7), and was then honored among men as well as God. (Luke 2:52)
It's the error of 'premature' ministry by sincere hearted Christians, that Jesus has yet to personally call into His ministry.
And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
They have a good desire to minister, but not a good calling from Jesus when and where.
Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
This is why some of the disaster has happened in the churches of God over the ages. They don't purpose to do harm to the sheep, but neither do they know what they are doing.
In such cases, no ministry is better than bad ministry, such as at Corinth, where Paul literally says it were better for them to stay home, than to gather together for the worse. (1 Cor 11:17)
This is exactly true and the whole reason for Jesus Christ coming to earth and into our hearts. The whole purpose Christ in us with hope of glory, is to live a life acceptable to God and rewarded with eternal salvation in the end.
The Spirit of Christ brings His faith and love of God with Him. That is the only way of Christ that man can come to the Father. Only with a pure heart and spirit in Christ, can any man possibly live holy and blameless before Him (Eph 1), and not just living outwardly righteous, while still being inwardly filthy.
Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.
It's a good life in this world to keep the law, but without the pure heart of Jesus Christ, no man can come to the Father and dwell with God and the Lamb forever.
It's not necessary to cow-tow to the saving faith without works Christians. As we see, if they had their own way, the very word 'works' would never be mentioned again, when talking about being saved and justified by Christ.
The simple reason is found in their own testimonies of still living sinfully at times unto the end. Their own words condemn them, because their own works at times condemn them. They have no faith nor interest whatsoever in the Bible teaching of being counted righteous by God, by doing His righteousness.
Their zealotry makes "works' an anathema word to their saving faith alone, because it pricks their own conscience. It's the Christian opposite of Pharisees, who treated faith as anathema to their outward righteousness by the law alone.
Not necessarily true. The bible talks about being saved by faith without works because it is part of salvation for many people, including the mentally ill, disabled and elderly.