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John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
The Bible tells us when and how.
people should look to the word. Not what people think..
As I understand it . . . Sanctification is to be made holy, and no, that doesn't happen as a process, it happens all at once, by the one who is making holy. Holy, from hagios, is "set apart", and that for use. So the kitchen tongs are for common use, and then they are given to the temple, to only be used for temple use. They have been made holy.
I see a good picture of holiness here:
Ephesians 4:22-25 KJV
22) That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23) And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
We've been recreated - if any be in Christ he is a new creation - the children of God - who were born not of human choice or . . . but born of God - patterned after Him in righteousness and true holiness.
Righteousness is two things, both doing and being what is right. Holiness is separation. We've been separated from Adam and placed into Christ, created in Him unto pre-ordained works. This is our holiness. Separated for God's use. Ephesians 4 has a great deal to say about God's use for us. One of the key passages is,
Ephesians 4:16 KJV
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
God's design for us is that we are to be a body where each part builds up the other parts in love. So then holiness - at least in part - is being added to God's family for the purpose of building up God's family.
24) And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
Righteousness is to speak truth to others. To be righteous means we are truthful. Doing righteousness will be telling the truth.
Holiness is living according to God's intent, including as members one of another. All matters of truth and lies aside, my life is about being members of each other, so we do what is good for each other. So of course we tell the truth, and not lie.
If we are not walking in the Spirit, and are walking according to flesh, that doesn't mean we will lie all the time. We may be competely honest or nearly so, but we may be conflicted over it, and may struggle. We may win that battle more often as time goes by, even though not walking in the Spirit.
It's this getting better at it over time, some call it progressive sanctification. I don't find that term or what it describes in the Bible. I do however find the renewing of the mind, which seems to me to better describe what I see.
Much love!
And you are meaning a baptism that is something apart from our salvation/rebirth?
Much love!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Interesting @marks ..I always believed sanctification to be a process.
Just found this online source.
Sanctification is the action of setting something or someone apart as holy, purifying it, and dedicating it to God's service. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We are in need of God's sanctifying grace to be made holy as God is holy.
Then a different view..online source.
Hebrews 10:10tells us that as followers of Christ “we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” But most of the time when Christians use the word sanctification, they are referring to the progressive work of God to make a believer more like Jesus Christ.
Just found this online source.
Sanctification is the action of setting something or someone apart as holy, purifying it, and dedicating it to God's service. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14). We are in need of God's sanctifying grace to be made holy as God is holy.
Then a different view..online source.
Hebrews 10:10tells us that as followers of Christ “we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” But most of the time when Christians use the word sanctification, they are referring to the progressive work of God to make a believer more like Jesus Christ.
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I think when we say "progressive sanctification" we are characterizing our opinions of our perceptions of our behavior. We feel like we are getting better and better based on how we see ourselves.
I think "renewing the mind" is what is ongoing, and is the Biblical terminology.
Sorry if I may be repeating myself, I forget what I've written to whom.
Much love!
I see sanctification in two states
1. Positional sanctification. This is to be "in Christ" and is a one time event
2. Conditional or personal sanctification. This is a day by day, moment by moment event, our personal sanctification depends on our status each moment, and can vary from moment to moment, day to day. it will end when we are resurrected, and we are perfect (glorification)
we see this in scripture. For he has perfected forever (positional sanctification) those ho are being sanctified (conditional sanctification)
Blessings Hepzibah. These two things are just part of the walk. Pray unceasingly. My sheep hear my voice. Walking in The Spirit is allowing The Holy Spirit to drive.(Take the wheel) Picture for a moment a car. that car is us when we a truly born from above. Now in that car we are used to driving.(Going where ever we want like Peter before) But also in that car is The Father and The Son(Jesus) in the form of The Holy Spirit. It is He that is Holy and righteous. We can be led by The Holy Spirit as we can hear His voice. But there will come a time after much suffering and coming to the end of our selves that we trust Him fully, and allow Him to drive(Take the wheel) as we hop in the back seat. There was a song "Jesus take the wheel" But for most they are not willing to hop in the back, they want to be in the passenger seat so when the going gets tuff(and it will get tuff) they can grab the wheel. With me personally, even though I am the least worthy in all the world, this happens as The Lord wills, when I go out into the world. There is no planing. And I never know when this will happen. My portion is to be clean(repented up) and believe(have faith) that He will provide. And He does, just as promised, as He is faithful. The words flow like a river and are Perfect, as He is Perfect. All the fruit of The Spirit are found in Him. All this talk about a higher walk, to walk as Jesus walked. He is the walk. For two can not walk together unless they agree. From before the foundation of the world His desire was to work in us and through us so that many would be with Him in the end. The design is also that all Glory Honor and Praise belong to Him and Him alone. And it is so. So let us give Him The Glory He deserves. The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
1 John 3:2-3 KJV
2) Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3) And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
Much love!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
"Those who are being sanctified", I think that can either refer to individuals who are being "progressively sanctified" or can refer to a number of individuals each being sanctified as time goes on. If I understand correctly the verse can be read either way, so we need parallel passages to help us to understand it.
When the writer speaks of us who have been sanctified in 10:10, he uses the Perfect passive, it's a completed act with enduring result having been done to us.
Hebrews 2:11 KJV
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Here both are present tense, ongoing at the time of writing.
Hebrews 10:10 KJV
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
If I'm going to interpret each of these literally, it hinges on 10:10, that our sanctification is a completed act with enduring result, and therefore the sanctification that is ongoing in the other passages is bringing this to more individuals.
If both present tense and perfect tense are used, the perfect tense cannot refer to the group until the group is completed, and in this writing, the presupposition is that it is not. Witness the urging to enter into His rest, for an example. Therefore, the perfect tense can only apply to the individual, and therefore, the present tense can only apply to the group, showing the ongoing work of the conversion of sinners.
Much love!
I've never really understood this idea. I don't see it in the Bible. Is this along the lines of "God sees us through Jesus-colored glasses"? I understand "perfected forever" to be a creative work of God.
Much love!
Perfected forever would be justified in the legal sense.
But a term some people use is also positional sanctification. the point is they are in Christ.
Conditional sanctification is just a fancy church word for Christian growth.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Found this.
Colossians 1:27-29 KJV
to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
"Perfected" here is more "made complete", "made mature", "finished", like that. It is different from justified (made righteous) or sanctified (made holy).
Much love!
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Hebrews 10:12–14
12 But when Christ1 had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the righthand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet.14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.Therefore we are being sanctified?
Finished..
since it is forever, and we are born again forever (our perfection is in Christ)
thats why we are perfected forever by that one sacrifice (the cross)
yet we are daily being sanctified.
