John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[Eternally Grateful]

Wanted to post an actual thread to discuss the words of Jesus in John 3. This thread is open to all discussion and it is encouraged, unlike another thread on the same topic.

I took this from my notes I had for my mend bible study a few weeks ago. I will post in short segments so as to not go to far and allow discussion

John 3:
3 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”

Notice that he comes at night. He does not want to be seen with him, especially as a pharisee. But he shows he is a seeker. And he comes to get answers.

we must also notice what he says,, He has seen the miracles Jesus has performed. and these miracles he understands are from God.. so he comes to Jesus with this in mind (we know what you do comes from God)

We also must note. As a pharisee, and all Jew2s. They were looking for the messiah, But as a ruler (king messiah) not a savior (suffering servant) the hidden mystery which paul spoke of..

knowing this, we must see that Nicodemus Saw messiah as coming to set up his kingdom. Free Israel from Roman oppression. Restore them to their glory , set up a physical kingdom

We also need to remember, the OT prophet said about the day of the lord. How the blind will see. The lame will walk etc etc.. all things which Nicodemus has said.. which is why he came

this sets us up for the context of the whole discussion. Jesus makes the following statement

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Jesus understood Nicodemus was looking for a physical king and kingdom. Jesus is going to redirect him to look for the kingdom which counts. And he opens by saying ye must be born again.

here is the basis for which the conversation which takes place stands,,

Jesus will first answer what he means

He will then explain how it is accomplished

I look forward to open discussion

 

[Ritajanice]

Excellent commentary..thank you @Eternally Grateful .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

first question, what is it, and why do we need born again.

I will first answer why. why do we need born again..we will have to go to other parts of scripture to see why.

Must be born again – Why do we need born again?

Gen 2: 5 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you[shall surely die.”

• Dying you will die – Physical death is a result of sin. yet this happened 900 years later. Yet Jesus said on that day.
• Did Adam die (spiritually) the moment he sinned? The answer is yes, because the things of God became foolish to him. We see from his actions, that the separation tool place.. If anyone would like to discuss this, feel free. we can go deeper.
• Why are we dead? Besides original sin?

Romans 6: 23 For the wages of sin is death - The wage, or reward for our own sin, is death.. Again, this is spiritual death.. While physical death is a result of sin, The wage of sin is spiritual death or separation from God.

Eph 2: 2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins - We were dead in trespasses and sins, again, this is spiritual death, made alive we will discuss later

In Adam (also called original sin)

1 Cor 15: 22 - For as in Adam all die,

Spiritual death – Separation from God

for his we can go to the law. more specifically the temple. and what it represented.

If we go to the law. we see that the people were put in a group. in the middle of this group was the tabernacle. but no one could go near it, here was the presence of God. anyone going near would be killed.

We are then told of the sacrifices, the many sin sacrifices and offerings to the lord. But I want to focus on the day of atonement. God said his presence would be in the inner place or most holy place. Once a year the high priest would come in and make atonement of the sin of the people.

to go in, he would need to make sacrifice, I see 5 animals that had to be sacrificed. in order for the whole atonement process to be taken care of and completed.

the sacrifices were to atone for the sin of the high priest so he can enter and to make atonement for the sin of Israel for the previous year.

this shows how deep and desperate our situation is, our seperation from God is so deep that only one man may enter Gods presence. and only then, after blood is shed.

This is why we need to be born again, or raised to life. or as many say, regenerated..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I will stop here and open it up to discussion.

 

[Ritajanice]

first question, what is it, and why do we need born again.

I’m going to take my time reading and answering,

Born Again, is when we have been birthed in the Spirit, by the Holy Spirit.

We need to be Born Again, because as non believers as I once was, I was in darkness/ sin and alienated from God...a living hell I:would describe my life...that was until I became Born Again.

We also need to be Born Again...so that by the power of the Holy Spirit we are being made into Jesus image...we need to learn God’s ways and his will for our lives.

We learn to die to the flesh and are taught by the Holy Spirit, to walk in the Spirit...

He also teaches us how to become obedient to God and to do his will..

I also believe we are to be God’s servants....I Glorify Jesus at every opportunity...why wouldn’t I, when he poured so much of his Love into my spirit and set me free from sin.

He brought my spirit from death into newness of Life...he brought me Alive in the Spirit....Praise His Holy Name!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m going to take my time reading and answering,

Born Again, is when we have been birthed in the Spirit, by the Holy Spirit.

We need to be Born Again, because as non believers as I once was, I was in darkness/ sin and alienated from God...a living hell I:would describe my life...that was until I became Born Again.

We also need to be Born Again...so that by the power of the Holy Spirit we are being made into Jesus image...we need to learn God’s ways and his will for our lives.

We learn to die to the flesh and are taught by the Holy Spirit, to walk in the Spirit...

He also teaches us how to become obedient to God and to do his will..

Alienated to God,. yes,, Dead to God.

and everything you mentioned is a result of that death.

Some people I know talk about a hole left in our soul which leavs us wanting, we spend our life trying to fill that hole, we use all kinds of things, Drugs, Sex, Money, Fame, Power etc etc. but nothing fills that Hole.

because that hole can only be filled by God.. and it happens when that fellowship is restored as we are made alive, or born again..

 

[Ritajanice]

Alienated to God,. yes,, Dead to God.

and everything you mentioned is a result of that death.

Some people I know talk about a hole left in our soul which leavs us wanting, we spend our life trying to fill that hole, we use all kinds of things, Drugs, Sex, Money, Fame, Power etc etc. but nothing fills that Hole.

100% Brother...I remember my days as a non believer very well....nothing fills that hole, spot on...only being birthed in the Spirit can fill that hole.....I wouldn’t trade my faith...for all the money in the world...Without God, I would surely die in spirit and physically.....not that will ever happen only the physical.

because that hole can only be filled by God.. and it happens when that fellowship is restored as we are made alive, or born again..

Amen!!!...perfect sense and teaching written here.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

100% Brother...I remember my days as a non believer very well....nothing fills that hole, spot on...only being birthed in the Spirit can fill that hole.....I wouldn’t trade my faith...for all the money in the world...Without God, I would surely die in spirit and physically.....not that will ever happen only the physical.

Amen!!!...perfect sense and teaching written here.

Thank you sister

 

[JohnDB]

Nope nope NOPE

Night time just after sunset is Socializing time in Israel. Been this way for centuries. They had torches and oil lamps and candles everywhere. To this day the shopping malls and merchant streets are the fullest at night.

Nicodemus would have had a very difficult time trying to hide and visit Jesus in secret with all the people filling the streets. Everyone would see him going to see Jesus. However, Jesus was regularly awake praying through the night and then preaching all day. Going days at a time without sleep.

"Born From Above" is a specific designation for those who would assist God in helping Israel. This applied to such people as Moses, Samuel, Sampson, Isaac, and Jacob.
Because Nicodemus did not know that the scriptures talked specifically about him (being a believer) he thought that he was ordinary and not special. He thought that he needed a whole life "do over" if he was as special as Jesus claimed him to be. But essentially that Jesus was mistaken because he was ordinary.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Nope nope NOPE

Night time just after sunset is Socializing time in Israel. Been this way for centuries. They had torches and oil lamps and candles everywhere. To this day the shopping malls and merchant streets are the fullest at night.

Nicodemus would have had a very difficult time trying to hide and visit Jesus in secret with all the people filling the streets. Everyone would see him going to see Jesus. However, Jesus was regularly awake praying through the night and then preaching all day. Going days at a time without sleep.

"Born From Above" is a specific designation for those who would assist God in helping Israel. This applied to such people as Moses, Samuel, Sampson, Isaac, and Jacob.
Because Nicodemus did not know that the scriptures talked specifically about him (being a believer) he thought that he was ordinary and not special. He thought that he needed a whole life "do over" if he was as special as Jesus claimed him to be. But essentially that Jesus was mistaken because he was ordinary.

Again, Born from above does not fit.. Nicodemus would not ask if he needed to return to his mothers womb to be born from above.

As for the time and why, we will just have to disagree. If nicodemus was seen visiting Jesus he would have been mocked and outcast from the rest of the sanhedrin

 

[JohnDB]

Again, Born from above does not fit.. Nicodemus would not ask if he needed to return to his mothers womb to be born from above.

As for the time and why, we will just have to disagree. If nicodemus was seen visiting Jesus he would have been mocked and outcast from the rest of the sanhedrin

Yes it does. You refuse to believe the truth. Just like the average pharisee.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes it does. You refuse to believe the truth. Just like the average pharisee.

Another one who thinks he is Gods gift.

good day sir.. this is a place for discussion. Not. place to atack people who disagree wiht you.

 

[ScottA]

I will stop here and open it up to discussion.

I will break it down.

First, Jesus' use of the word "again" is actually stated by definition in the original language as born "from above." Either way, the idea is that we are already born--just not first from "above" and therefore must also be born "again", as He says, of the "Spirit."

So we are first born below or of the flesh, but in order to enter the kingdom of God we must also be born from above or of the Spirit. Which is not "regeneration" as some would refer to it--because we were not first born of the spirit that we should need to regain it. In fact what is first born of the flesh is made up of the same elements of this [old] world and earth that the scriptures tell us are to be "destroyed with fervent heat and with fire." Thus, to be born "again" or "from above" is rightly called, "new birth"...of which Jesus is the "firstfruits."

What is being referred to here, and why being first born "of water" is also a part, refers to what was first written of in Genesis 1:7: "Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so." Meaning that we are first born of this world and its elements, but then to enter the kingdom of God we must also be born from what is not of this world, but above. Jesus, said it another way as well, saying, "That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." Clearly making the point that the two births are completely different, and there is actually no regeneration or "glorification", nor even salvation of the flesh, but rather a replacement of the flesh with the Spirit. Of which Paul even says, referring to the body of flesh, "not that body."

All of which is written...and yet those who prefer the flesh, will stand in the flesh--even in the holy place, and make their argument for it.

 

[JohnDB]

Another one who thinks he is Gods gift.

good day sir.. this is a place for discussion. Not. place to atack people who disagree wiht you.

You attacked first.

And have been completely disrespectful to any opinion but your own in all honesty.

So claim what you like....the truth is printed in EVERY modern translation and in history.

So keep up with what is a contortionist view of scripture that doesn't fit the narrative or the themes of John.

 

[Ritajanice]

Again, Born from above does not fit.. Nicodemus would not ask if he needed to return to his mothers womb to be born from above.

Nicodemus wasn’t understanding the second birth, imo,..as he wasn’t or hadn’t been birthed in the Spirit ...we didn’t receive the rebirth, not until Jesus died, ..

A Born Again imo, understands, why, because they have been supernaturally birthed in the Spirit.

We couldn’t know or understand this, not until it happens, by the power of the Holy Spirit, he is the one who penetrates and speak to our spirit./ he testifies with our spirit that we are children of God/ Born Again/ Regenerated........I received that new heart the day I was birthed in the Spirit......this has all been revealed to me, when the Holy Spirit leads me through scripture....I very much have a “ LIVING RELATIONSHIP “ with God through the Holy Spirit....in the Name of Jesus....Amen!!

much more to it than that, which I have explained many times.

As a non believer that I used to be, my brother in law was a Born Again.....I couldn’t understand a word he was saying to me, why, because I hadn’t been birthed in the Spirit then, therefore I was still in darkness/ sin/ death....alienated from God......

Also as a new babe, I New nothing of the word, only that I was Born Again.....everything I have learnt on my journey with God....I have learnt through the Holy Spirit, who leads me to understand the living word of God.

Why....because without him we are nothing and know nothing...my testimony and belief.

Titus 3:5 - Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ezekiel 36:26 - A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

John 3:1-36 - There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: (Read More...)

John 3:5 - Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:9 - Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

1 Peter 1:23 - Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Ritajanice]

Why Did Nicodemus come To Jesus At Night?

Another view on why he came at night..online source.

Now there was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. This man came to Jesus by night and said to him, ‘Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God, for no one can do these signs that you do unless God is with him.’ Jesus answered him, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.’” – John 3:1-3

Nicodemus visited Jesus in the dead of night. Why? Each sentence of this brief passage highlights one of three interrelated answers to that question. First, Nicodemus was one of about 6,000 Pharisees at the time, men who were set apart to maintain the ways of the Lord. He was respected as a teacher of Israel and served as a member of the Sanhedrin, or Jewish tribunal. He wielded significant religious, social, and political power, all of which would have kept him quite busy during the day. More importantly, a public meeting with Jesus could have jeopardized his position and his reputation.

 

[Ritajanice]

Notice that he comes at night. He does not want to be seen with him, especially as a pharisee. But he shows he is a seeker. And he comes to get answers.

Online source.

Why did Nicodemus visit Jesus at night?​

But why did Nicodemus visit Jesus at night? He was frightened. The crowds were watching the Jewish leaders. They wanted to know what the leaders believed about Jesus (John 7:26, 48). The rest of the *Council would not be happy about this visit. They would think that Nicodemus was foolish. They would ask questions: 'Does Nicodemus think that Jesus is the *Messiah?' They would laugh at him! They might not even allow him to be a member of the *Council. He would lose everything. He would not continue to be an important man. People would not respect him. His whole life would change. The story of Nicodemus shows us something that is important. It can be very hard to begin to ask about Jesus. It shows us something else. It can be even harder to obey the *Lord Jesus. Some people might even die because they obey Jesus.

First of all, Nicodemus said to Jesus, ‘Teacher, we know that you have come from God. Nobody could do these *miracles and signs if God were not with him’.

Jesus spoke more clearly to this honest man than he did to some other people. He answered Nicodemus’s question at once.

A new birth​

Jesus said, ‘Nobody can see the *kingdom of God unless he has a new life’. To begin a new life, we need a new birth. Of course, Jesus did not mean a physical rebirth. It will be a *spiritual birth. We all have a big problem. We have *sin in our lives. We are selfish. We want to please ourselves. We want all kinds of good things for ourselves. God has to change us. Then we can be the people that he wants us to be. He has to change the way that we think. He has to change the way that we live. It will be like a new life. Or, like a new birth. The *prophets knew this. For example Jeremiah wrote:

 

[face2face]

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

@Jack out of interest I know you are like Nicodemus here and would question how you would enter back into your mothers womb. Your statement about reading the Bible literally falls over here - am I right?

 

[Jack]

@Jack out of interest I know you are like Nicodemus here and would question how you would enter back into your mothers womb. Your statement about reading the Bible literally falls over here - am I right?

The Bible is absolutely Literal unless the Bible clearly proves it's not. And since you reject most of the Bible it's irrelevant proving anything to you.

 

[face2face]

The Bible is absolutely Literal unless the Bible clearly proves it's not. And since you reject most of the Bible it's irrelevant proving anything to you.

you didn't answer the question, in that case would you read it literally? Does being born again for you mean going back into your mother womb?