The Source of Unity is Christ
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Since the Holy Spirit always draws our attention to Jesus Christ, I have found that those with the Spirit of God are extremely focused on the Son of God and not on organizations or men.
Being born-again, receiving the Holy Spirit and entering into relationship with Jesus Christ, always wrenches people out of self-worship and into Christ-centeredness.
Hi kepha,
There's a very simple way to convince me you've had a personal pentecost. First of all, don't tell me you have. Second of all, start communicating the truths into which you've been led by the Spirit during your study of God's word, which can be revealed only by the Holy Spirit, and which you recognised because you didn't 'know' them before the Spirit revealed them. These cannot be taken from the surface of the page - though many can be.
This would set you apart from other Catholics, who are unable to discern the truth from a lie, who are fooled by sophistry.
You complain about having your 'agreement' disagreed with. But the two sentences are both untrue. I am not deceived by either of them. Find something genuinely true to say - which agrees with the word of God - and I'll be delighted to accord.
Hi aspen,
Thank you for holding my feet to the fire in such a friendly way. :) I thought of you when I was writing all that, but sadly, so far, what I said is how I have perceived this situation.
You don't push Catholicism much, 'tis true, and that is very very welcome. Your relationship with Jesus I don't feel I know about. Perhaps you've posted more about it in the past. I don't doubt you have one, but I'm unclear of its terms of reference in respect of what you think you've received, or whether what you've received is what the Bible says is on offer. There are many spiritual offerings available in this world. Paul calls them 'voices', and states that 'none of them are without significance'. 1 Corinthians 14:10 We are all assailed by these voices, but there is only one Good Shepherd of the sheep, John 10:14 and His is the only safe voice to be following John 10:3. Those who follow His voice demonstrate they are sheep John 10:4, 5. This is not only a testimony to God, which is essential if one is not to fall foul of Matt 7:21, but to men who are not fooled by outward religion, either.
There is definitely a huge culture gap between Catholics and 'Protestants' (for want of a more refined distinction), in how we seek to present ourselves as 'Christian'. I may have said this before in a thread but I'll say it again to be sure: when I was in a lot of practical need, the people who helped were all ex-Catholics who'd been born again through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They had been brought up in a completely different mindset from those I knew who came from Protestant backgrounds, but it wasn't till my life settled down again, that I connected my experience with that observation. There are times when life is moving too fast to ponder such things! Thus, I want you to know the sheer hard work and sacrifice for the sake of God's name which some Catholics give, has not escaped my notice. The only thing that bothers me all the while, is that cigarette paper's difference between those activities being the Father's will, ordained in heaven, and the very same activities being the dead works of conscientious religionists.
The only way you can know you have the Holy Spirit guiding you, is if your experience of God is expressed and explained in scripture. It is tempting to rely on a kind of familair 'communion' with others, especially with those with whom we think we agree, but this level of 'unity' can be a complete lie in terms of eternal truth - which is the raw reality of the holy God with whom we have to do, to whom all things are naked and open.
It may be that because you don't post scripture (usually) I have no idea by which standard you would claim to have received the Holy Spirit, (if you do) but I can testify in an unequivocal manner, that one of the ways to recognise another born again believer, is when they have received the same revelation from scripture as oneself, through the Holy Spirit's teaching. When 'we' have received the same gift from God, we recognise it in each other.
Hi Axehead,
John 14:6 Jesus says to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip says to him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it suffices us. 9 Jesus says to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
10 Believe thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak to you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works.
There's a very simple way to convince me you've had a personal pentecost. First of all, don't tell me you have. Second of all, start communicating the truths into which you've been led by the Spirit during your study of God's word, which can be revealed only by the Holy Spirit, and which you recognised because you didn't 'know' them before the Spirit revealed them. These cannot be taken from the surface of the page - though many can be.
This would set you apart from other Catholics, who are unable to discern the truth from a lie, who are fooled by sophistry.
You complain about having your 'agreement' disagreed with. But the two sentences are both untrue. I am not deceived by either of them. Find something genuinely true to say - which agrees with the word of God - and I'll be delighted to accord.
Hi aspen,
Thank you for holding my feet to the fire in such a friendly way. :) I thought of you when I was writing all that, but sadly, so far, what I said is how I have perceived this situation.
You don't push Catholicism much, 'tis true, and that is very very welcome. Your relationship with Jesus I don't feel I know about. Perhaps you've posted more about it in the past. I don't doubt you have one, but I'm unclear of its terms of reference in respect of what you think you've received, or whether what you've received is what the Bible says is on offer. There are many spiritual offerings available in this world. Paul calls them 'voices', and states that 'none of them are without significance'. 1 Corinthians 14:10 We are all assailed by these voices, but there is only one Good Shepherd of the sheep, John 10:14 and His is the only safe voice to be following John 10:3. Those who follow His voice demonstrate they are sheep John 10:4, 5. This is not only a testimony to God, which is essential if one is not to fall foul of Matt 7:21, but to men who are not fooled by outward religion, either.
There is definitely a huge culture gap between Catholics and 'Protestants' (for want of a more refined distinction), in how we seek to present ourselves as 'Christian'. I may have said this before in a thread but I'll say it again to be sure: when I was in a lot of practical need, the people who helped were all ex-Catholics who'd been born again through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. They had been brought up in a completely different mindset from those I knew who came from Protestant backgrounds, but it wasn't till my life settled down again, that I connected my experience with that observation. There are times when life is moving too fast to ponder such things! Thus, I want you to know the sheer hard work and sacrifice for the sake of God's name which some Catholics give, has not escaped my notice. The only thing that bothers me all the while, is that cigarette paper's difference between those activities being the Father's will, ordained in heaven, and the very same activities being the dead works of conscientious religionists.
The only way you can know you have the Holy Spirit guiding you, is if your experience of God is expressed and explained in scripture. It is tempting to rely on a kind of familair 'communion' with others, especially with those with whom we think we agree, but this level of 'unity' can be a complete lie in terms of eternal truth - which is the raw reality of the holy God with whom we have to do, to whom all things are naked and open.
It may be that because you don't post scripture (usually) I have no idea by which standard you would claim to have received the Holy Spirit, (if you do) but I can testify in an unequivocal manner, that one of the ways to recognise another born again believer, is when they have received the same revelation from scripture as oneself, through the Holy Spirit's teaching. When 'we' have received the same gift from God, we recognise it in each other.
Hi Axehead,
John 14:6 Jesus says to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man comes to the Father, but by me. 7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip says to him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it suffices us. 9 Jesus says to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the Father?
10 Believe thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak to you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works.
You're hilarious!!
ROFL -
Lets just chalk it up to a public demonstration of how misunderstanding are taken care of. Not letting a disunion take place.
And great post Dragonfly
Dito to these in particular
.
Hello again, kepha,
Do you know you didn't have to reply to what I'd posted? You could have just left it alone as a snapshot of how I saw things at that moment.
Do I put words into your mouth? Hopefully not. What gives you the idea I don't want there to be any common ground?
My mind is open to discerning the difference between truth and lie, and to the acknowledgement that the grace of God saves sinners wherever He finds them open to receive Him.
My mind is made up to follow Jesus Christ, my Saviour, Healer, Deliverer, Maker, Friend (and many more titles He has, you also know).
I don't think it's my fault if Catholics whom I've met are not Christians. Wouldn't that be something to do with Catholicism's all-welcoming arms to all kinds of extra-biblical beliefs and practices, regardless of God's primitive terms of engagement? My main experience is with meeting those who grew up under Catholicism, whom the Lord met in a mighty way and baptised in His Spirit, and then showed them some of the difficulties He has with Catholicism.
But He did command or inspire that which is written, as well as the part of history which was recorded retrospectively. I agree. God spoke before the writing and God has continued speaking, but it takes a prophet to retain the detail and pass it on meticulously accurately.
These days it's safer than accepting what has been filled in for what is not in scripture, as also the word of God.
If I want a Catholic view I do; 'with an open mind'? I don't believe everything I read outside of scripture. Catholic websites are not immune from the Spirit of truth which prompts and leads and advises me what to believe.
I'm aware the Catholic Church makes that claim, but I don't believe it's true.
I have nothing against people who are genuinely open to know God in a deeper way, regardless of their creed, but I am against Catholicism.
It's okay. I already know what it is. The Bible talks about it from cover to cover.
Do you know you didn't have to reply to what I'd posted? You could have just left it alone as a snapshot of how I saw things at that moment.
Do I put words into your mouth? Hopefully not. What gives you the idea I don't want there to be any common ground?
My mind is open to discerning the difference between truth and lie, and to the acknowledgement that the grace of God saves sinners wherever He finds them open to receive Him.
My mind is made up to follow Jesus Christ, my Saviour, Healer, Deliverer, Maker, Friend (and many more titles He has, you also know).
I don't think it's my fault if Catholics whom I've met are not Christians. Wouldn't that be something to do with Catholicism's all-welcoming arms to all kinds of extra-biblical beliefs and practices, regardless of God's primitive terms of engagement? My main experience is with meeting those who grew up under Catholicism, whom the Lord met in a mighty way and baptised in His Spirit, and then showed them some of the difficulties He has with Catholicism.
But He did command or inspire that which is written, as well as the part of history which was recorded retrospectively. I agree. God spoke before the writing and God has continued speaking, but it takes a prophet to retain the detail and pass it on meticulously accurately.
These days it's safer than accepting what has been filled in for what is not in scripture, as also the word of God.
If I want a Catholic view I do; 'with an open mind'? I don't believe everything I read outside of scripture. Catholic websites are not immune from the Spirit of truth which prompts and leads and advises me what to believe.
I'm aware the Catholic Church makes that claim, but I don't believe it's true.
I have nothing against people who are genuinely open to know God in a deeper way, regardless of their creed, but I am against Catholicism.
It's okay. I already know what it is. The Bible talks about it from cover to cover.
Yea,, and you got your digs in at that moment. None of it was called for.
You make it obvious you don't believe a Catholic can be a Christian. You judge all Catholics by its weakest members.
Are you suggesting that because I am Catholic I am not open to receive Him? I would guess that 95% of what you believe about Catholicism is based on lies.
I do not question your sincerity, I question your refusal to accept anything that is Catholic, regardless of how truthful any one thing is. This is why any discussion with you is pointless.
That's 2 separate issues. It's unfair to compare the worst Catholics with the best (insert your church here). How would you like me to compare the worst of your (insert your church here) with the best Catholics?
"extra-biblical beliefs and practices" is a slogan with no meaning. And "God's primitive terms of engagement" really means "dragonfly's primitive terms of engagement."
You missed the point. The Word of God is the Bible, but NOT the Bible alone. You have lost touch with your roots.
By rejecting Sacred Tradition, you cut off the very limb you are sitting on. But you are getting off topic (again)
The Bible was compiled by Catholic bishops. It's a Catholic book. You are reading a Catholic view everytime you read scripture, the problem is you bend it to suit your 'spirit led' opinions. And the person next to you in church does a different 'spirit led' thing. Subjective truth is a pillar of sand.
Do you believe that anything on a reliable Catholic web site be true? (beware of imitations)
You are against what you think Catholicism is. Now lets get back on topic, shall we?
"Why are there quarrels and ill will and dissensions and schism and fighting among you? Do we not have one God and one Christ, and one Spirit of grace poured out upon us? And is there not one calling in Christ? Why do we wrench and tear apart the members of Christ, and revolt against our own body, and reach such folly as to forget that we are members of one another?"
St. Clement Of Rome,"First Epistle To The Corinthians," c. 96 A.D.
"He, therefore, who does not assemble with the Church, has even by this displayed his pride, and he has condemned himself."
St. Ignatius of Antioch, "Epistle to the Ephesians." c. 105 A.D.
"Although dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, the Church has received this faith from the apostles and their disciples.... The Church received this preaching and this faith. Although she is scattered throughout the whole world, yet, she carefully preserves it, as if she occupied only one house. She also believes these points just as if she had only one soul, and one and the same heart. She proclaims these things, teaches them, and hands them down, with perfect harmony, as if she possessed only one mouth. For although the languages of the world are different, yet the significance of the tradition is one and the same. For the churches which have been planted in Germany do not believe or hand down anything different. Neither do those in Spain, Gaul, the East, Egypt, Libya, or in the central regions of the world."
St. Irenaeus, "Against All Heresies," c. 180 A.D.
Were Clement, Ignatius, and Irenaeus Christians?
This topic reminds me of an old hymnal:
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]My hope is built on nothing less[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]I dare not trust the sweetest frame,[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]But wholly lean on Jesus' name.[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]All other ground is sinking sand.[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]My hope is built on nothing less[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]Than Jesus' blood and righteousness;[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]I dare not trust the sweetest frame,[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]But wholly lean on Jesus' name.[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;[/background]
[background=rgb(255, 255, 206)]All other ground is sinking sand.[/background]
Ohh I see Alan when I right in the middle
of building sand castles here you come
with the truth, I see how it is now LOL
811
ARTicl 9
Paragraph 3
sole Church of Christ
Subjective truth is a pillar of sand
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH
The Christian Faith is from Jesus and Jesus built the Faith upon His apostles and their successors, His Church alone is built on those teachings from His apostles as authorized by Jesus,show me from Holy Scripture where Jesus ever gave his authority to you or any of your church/cult founders?
In plain English
“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will[sup] [/sup]believe in Me through their word; [sup]21 [/sup]that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me.
Where I mentioned it before to you
http://www.christian...120#entry171557
811......But you are brought down to Sheol................
ARTicl 9........I will make myself like the Most High..............
Paragraph 3....... I will ascend above the heights of the clouds
sole Church of Christ.......I will sit on the mount of assembly.................
Subjective truth is a pillar of sand .......I will set my throne on high.........................
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.......‘I will ascend to heaven.............................
Kepha, your presence has always been about comparing churches and that is not what people do here. You are turning things around on dragonfly. You are the one that insists on comparing people with people and churches with churches yet you are clever how you project that on others.
"Me thinks you protesteth too much." It seems you are unable to talk about Jesus Christ without bringing your church into it. Do you see anyone talking about the Lutheran, Methodist, Baptist. Presbyterian, Pentecostal church ad nauseum? No!
Look, I know that you think you are doing an honorable thing for your church by promoting the RCC views in a non-Catholic forum but if you are so secure in your beliefs then rest in them and be at peace with people. You have been here long enough to know that many people don't take kindly to your techniques. It's almost like you need validation of your beliefs by getting others to agree with you. http://www.catholicforum.com will have a lot of people that agree with you.
Don't you want to be with like-minded people? I would never go to catholicforum.com because I know they don't accept what I believe and I would just be a constant thorn in their side. Have you been assigned to this forum by some Master apologist or something?
You have been over this so many times and somehow you think if you say it enough that people will wear down and give in to you. What is more apt to happen is that people will just ignore you. The only root that is important to not lose touch with is the "Root of Jesse", Jesus Christ.
Isa_11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Rom_15:12 And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.
Is it not enough that we remain in the Vine (Jesus again) that we have to sit on the RCC "limb" too?
Are you seriously into going over this again and again? We all recognize this is your opinion based on the Romanist view of history and much of it to us is revisionist history. I can show you Catholic teachings from your own Catechism and Canon where they are joking about and admitting Catholic forgeries. Why don't these things bother you if you are such a "seeker" of truth?
Lies are always mixed with truth. If they weren't you wouldn't accept them so easily.
I am fairly sure that dragonfly KNOWS what Catholicism is. You see, when we don't agree with you, you think we are not smart enough to understand.
You should pay attention to Clement's words.
Heb_12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Axehead
That the Pope exults himself as the most high
He seems to have the same goal as Isa 14:13-15
You do believe the Pope is the most high on earth don't you?
On earth as it is in heaven and all,,,,,, right?
Word Pictures
811................But you are brought down to Sheol................
ARTicl 9..................I will make myself like the Most High..............
Paragraph 3................. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds
sole Church of Christ.................I will sit on the mount of assembly.................
Subjective truth is a pillar of sand .................I will set my throne on high.........................
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.................‘I will ascend to heaven.............................
So I am supposed to be passive while ignorance and bigotry reigns? MOST OF THE TIME I bring up Catholicism is when she is derided, insulted, misrepresented or attacked. I should remind you that this mess got started by me agreeing with you. Obviously, it's not the content that matters but the identity of the poster.
The Church is Jesus on earth. He made that clear when He knocked Saul off his horse. "Why are you persecuting Me?"
I see it constantly. Don't you know who you are following with your "sola scriptura"?
I'm already a member.
They accept anybody, they just don't tolerate uncharitable posts, bigotry and hate speech.
Maybe for the first time people are seeing what Catholics really believe, instead of the constant stream of lies people are bombarded with.
I
I've never expected anyone to sit on the CC "limb". If I wanted to look for a fight, I'd open a thread on the insanity of sola scriptura, or the psychosis of total depravity.
Aren't you changing the subject instead of answering my one simple question?
That's just an insult.
Dragonfly believes the lies she has been told. It's not a question of being smart enough, it's a question of being blinded by the so called reformers.
Why don't you be the first to answer my questions:
Were Ignatius, Clement and Irenaeus Christians?
If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, John 17:20-23 what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?
[font=Trebuchet MS']Pope Innocent III enacted in writing, [/font]‘We may according to the fulness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God.’[font=Trebuchet MS'] I Book of Gregory 9 Decret. C3.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']The Lateran Council, addressing Pope Julius II in an oration delivered by Marcellus states, [/font]‘Take care that we lose not that salvation, that life and breath which thou hast given us, for thou art our shepherd, tou art physician, thou art governor, thou are husbandman, thou finally ART ANOTHER GOD ON EARTH’[font=Trebuchet MS'] Council Edit. Colm. Agrip. 1618.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Pope Nicholas assumed the title of God. His words are:—[/font]‘I am all in all and above all, so that God Himself, and I, the Vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do . . . Wherefore, if those things that I do be said not to be done of man, but of God. WHAT CAN YOU MAKE ME BUT GOD? Again, if prelates of the Church be called and counted of Constantine for gods, I then, being above all prelates, seem by this reason to be ABOVE ALL GODS. Wherefore, no marvel if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea, with the precepts of Christ.’ See Decret. Par Distinct 96 Ch. 7 Edit Lugd. 1661.
[font=Trebuchet MS']Let us refer—not to any private sources—but to the official ‘Book of Sacred Ceremonies’ of the Church of Rome.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']This book, sometimes called ‘Ceremoniale Romanum,’ is written in Latin, and was compiled three hundred and forty years ago, by Marcellus, a Roman Catholic Archbishop, and is dedicated to a Pope, Leo X. Let us turn to that portion of this Volume which describes the first public appearance of the Pope at Rome, on his Election to the Pontificate.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']We there read the following order of proceedings: ‘The Pontiff elect is conducted to the Sacrarium, and divested of his ordinary attire, and is clad in Papal Robes.’ The colour of these is then minutely described. Suffice it to say, that five different articles of dress, in which he is then arrayed, are scarlet. Another vest is specified, and this is covered with pearls. His mitre is then mentioned; and this is adorned with gold andprecious stones.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Such, then, is the attire in which the Pope is arrayed, and in which he first appears to the World as Pope. In the Book of Revelation we see that scarlet, pearls, gold, and precious stones are thrice specified by St. John, as characterizing the Mysterious Power portrayed by himself.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']But we may not pause here. Turn again to the ‘Ceremoniale Romanum.’ The Pontiff elect, arrayed as has been described, is conducted to the Cathedral of Rome, the Basilica, or Church, of St. Peter. He is led to the Altar; he first prostrates himself before it, and prays. Thus he declares the sanctity of the Altar. He kneels at it, and prays before it, as the seat of God.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']What a contrast then ensues! We read thus:[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']‘The Pope rises, and, wearing his mitre, is lifted up by the Cardinals, and is placed by them upon the Altar – to sit there. One of the Bishops kneels, and begins the ‘Te Deum.’ In the meantime the Cardinals kiss the feet and hands and face of the Pope.’[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Such is the first appearance of the Pope in the face of the Church and the World.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']‘Whatever God does the Pope professes also. Does God require that to Him every knee shall bow? So, too, the Pope: he requires to be worshipped with prostration and kissing. Does God reveal Himself as the ‘only holy?’ So, too, the Pope. He claims to be styled ‘his holiness.’ Is God the ‘only wise?’ So, too, the Pope: he claims to be ‘inerrable.’ Did God plant his throne on the summit of Sinai, and thence promulgate those ten commandments which are the world’s law? So, too, the Pope: he has planted his seat on the seven hills in the character of the world’s supreme lawgiver and judge, and he claims an equal authority and infallibility for all that he is pleased to promulgate ex-cathedra as Jehovah claims for the precepts of the decalogue.[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Is it God’s prerogative to pardon sin? The Pope assumes the same great prerogative. He pardons the sins of the living and the dead. Is it God’s prerogative to assign men their eternal destiny? This, too, does the Pope. He pretends to hold the keys that open and shut purgatory, and while he reserves to his followers a sure passport to the realms of paradise, he consigns all outside his church to eternal woe. In fine, does God sit between the Cherubim and receive the homage of His people in His sanctuary? The Pope, seated on the high altar of St. Peter’s while incense is burned before him, and the knee is bent to him, is invoked as the Lord our God. [/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Romanists are accustomed to call the altar, the throne of God, inasmuch as thereon they place the host. The use the Pope finds for it on these occasions, is the not very dignified one of a footstool. ‘He as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.’[/font]
[font=Trebuchet MS']Read the entire article: Antichrist Exalts Himself Above God[/font]
Why don't you be the first to answer my questions:
Were Ignatius, Clement and Irenaeus Christians?
If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, John 17:20-23 what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?
Oh, your quotes about the Pope are fake BTW. Or severely taken out of context; I've refuted that one before. But you are so off topic I really can't be bothered.
Were Ignatius, Clement and Irenaeus Christians?
If the unity of Christians was meant to convince the world that Jesus was sent by God, John 17:20-23 what does the ever-increasing fragmentation of Protestantism say to the world?
Oh, your quotes about the Pope are fake BTW. Or severely taken out of context; I've refuted that one before. But you are so off topic I really can't be bothered.
We don't know them. The important question is "Are you a Christian?" Jesus is the source of Unity not your church. You have countless schisms in your religious organization so stop being so hypocritical.
2Ti_2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
The Lord knows them that are His, not you and not the Pope.
I think I'll use a page from neos play book. It's only one page anyway
That the Pope exults himself as the most high
He seems to have the same goal as Isa 14:13-15
You do believe the Pope is the most high on earth don't you?
On earth as it is in heaven and all,,,,,, right?
Word Pictures
Matthew 10:14
Mark 6:11
Luke 9:5
May be a better choice than playing the victim
Or being bothered
That the Pope exults himself as the most high
He seems to have the same goal as Isa 14:13-15
You do believe the Pope is the most high on earth don't you?
On earth as it is in heaven and all,,,,,, right?
Word Pictures
811................But you are brought down to Sheol................
ARTicl 9..................I will make myself like the Most High..............
Paragraph 3................. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds
sole Church of Christ.................I will sit on the mount of assembly.................
Subjective truth is a pillar of sand .................I will set my throne on high.........................
CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.................‘I will ascend to heaven.............................
Matthew 10:14
Mark 6:11
Luke 9:5
May be a better choice than playing the victim
Or being bothered
You play the martyr to a fault. Why don't you take Aspen's critique of Neo seriously? "You can't stir the hive and then cry persecution when the bee stings you".
Do you seriously think people won't stand up for what they believe is the truth. How much longer will you stay and fight with them. Here http://www.christianityboard.com/topic/13781-st-francis-of-assisi/page__st__30#entry172778 you are saying you were invested in the third order of St. Francis of Assisi. Why don't you take his prayer seriously? "Lord make me an instrument of your peace...?"
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