The social gospel?

[Ritajanice]

A Born Again has a heightened conscience...

1 Peter 3:16-18​

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King James Version​

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16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
17 For it is better, if the will of God be so, that ye suffer for well doing, than for evil doing.
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


.we have been forgiven all sin, there is no sin in the spirit of a Born Again....we have been set free from sin, the moment our spirit was birthed in the Spirit...we are then saved from eternal damnation...
The Spirit cannot indwell the spirit of a sinner.....we are Gods spirit children......we can only look to him and no other.....of course all of this has taken years to understand in my spirit and only Gods Living witness His Living Holy Spirit can bring my spirit to understand this truth.....it’s also all in God’s perfect timing.

We learn patience through the Spirit!...I’m still learning that one.

1 John 3​

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King James Version​

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3 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11 For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12 Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
13 Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.
15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.
16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.
20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[Episkopos]

I have a question then about not looking for human approval. I’m not trying to be ugly. It’s a serious question. Why the does it seem like I can manipulate which way you go? I can either lavish you and stay in your good graces.

Well you can pretend to agree with me, in a surface way. Since I don't know you and have to rely on what you write...yes, you can fool me. But if you understand what I'm writing then why wouldn't I think that's a good thing?

Are you saying you only agree to get along...to win approval? I think you are either over-thinking this...or questioning your own motives. Fooling me doesn't get you anywhere.

Or dare to cut you loose? Why do I experience the angst of fear of offending by not being able to disagree and having that choose to either … remain on good terms or to dare to be counted as the other sorts? Why is there a strong …hmm to flatter or to not flatter?

Don't fear man, but God. Speak the truth. It is God who justifies or condemns.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, I agree we can't appreciate how offensive sin is in Gods sight. We see our sins from a human perspective and they doesn't seem to be that bad. But if we compare ourselves to a perfectly righteous and Just God, then it's like comparing pitch black darkness to brilliant blinding light.

I've heard unbelievers try to justify their sinful lifestyles by saying, "I can't help it, this is the way God made me". That attitude is in stark contrast to what Paul said about his battle with sin. He described it as a wrestling match, between his new nature and his old nature. So born again believers still have to struggle with temptation and we don't always win, we can still be overcome by temptation if we don't keep on guard and wear the whole armor of God.

That is why legalistic thinking boggles my mind

How can we look to a perfect and righteous God and think we even come close.

Born again believers know how to do right better than anyone else, but even we fail sometimes. The difference between our sin and that of unbelievers is, ours is not premeditated. We don't live as those who have sold out to serve sin, they make no effort to resist temptation, they actually premediate most of their sinful activities and make provisions to facilitate their sinful behavior. The born again believer, grieves over his sins and repents of them right away and God is faithful to forgive them every time.

I think we even sin sins we do not even know are sins. Thats part of christian growth. I think as paul said, as mature a believer as he was. He considered himself the chief of all sinners.

Themore I grow the more sinful I realize I really have been and am.. To me thats a true status of maturity. We see ourselves in the eyes of God. Not in human thinking (I am not that bad)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I have a question then about not looking for human approval. I’m not trying to be ugly. It’s a serious question. Why the does it seem like I can manipulate which way you go? I can either lavish you and stay in your good graces. Or dare to cut you loose? Why do I experience the angst of fear of offending by not being able to disagree and having that choose to either … remain on good terms or to dare to be counted as the other sorts? Why is there a strong …hmm to flatter or to not flatter?

Sadly, when we are stuck in our own thinking, in pride, we can not tolerate when people disagree with us, We are so offended we have to lash out.

 

[Ritajanice]

She’s not a mod anymore, just so you know.

Eternally Grateful said:
And here we go epi is now God he knows me. @Rita how can we let this continue?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

When? After you die?

false. More mischaracterization. How are we judged? By our beliefs? Do you know what is says in the bible...over and over and over?

talk about non responsive.

your first comment, what does it even mean?

your second, your trying to deflect.

Mischaracterization? Are you now pointing to the cross and grace as a means of eternal life. Or do you still believe it makes you perfect so you can earn your way in?

 

[Christian Soldier]

The grace covenant I call the abrahamic covenant ‘ (in you -literally your seed or christ- shall all the nations of the world be blessed)

this is not a conditional covenant, It is an I WILL covenant.

The jews are also under a seperate part of this covenant, in that covenant was the law given not to be saved, but to expose them when they did wrong. And lead them to christ.

I don't see any issue with the Jews being, under a separate part of the same covenant. It could be said that the Jews would be more accountable to God because He gave them the Holy Scriptures and showed them favor than the Gentiles. But at the end of the day, every single person who was ever saved after Adam, to this day was saved by the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are many scriptures which speak of God electing to save a certain number of people before He created the world. We can understand this in several ways but the fact remains. Some say God looked down the corridors of time and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the street and decided that Johnny was a good boy, while others say it had nothing to do with Johnny being a good boy and everything to do with Gods sovereign choice. Either way Johnny was saved.

The Jewish system, only provided temporal forgiveness of sin. So they had to keep burning animals and keeping all kinds of laws. All of those things were types and shadows of what Jesus would fulfill once and for all. The Jews looked to the coming Messiah for their salvation, just as we look back to His coming for our salivation.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Well you can pretend to agree with me, in a surface way. Since I don't know you and have to rely on what you write...yes, you can fool me. But if you understand what I'm writing then why wouldn't I think that's a good thing?

Are you saying you only agree to get along...to win approval? I think you are either over-thinking this...or questioning your own motives. Fooling me doesn't get you anywhere.

Don't fear man, but God. Speak the truth. It is God who justifies or condemns.

I don’t think I’m overthinking it. You came at me hard concerning “he himself saved by fire.” So I was thinking of your strong assertion of all that you said, of the accusations. No I didn’t agree with what you were saying. If God gives us discernment …I say if because I do realize it could be my own voice. But lately two things seemed to be given that I don’t think come from me. One was to see how fickle flattery is. How unstable it is our fleeting agreements and forming our little clicks one minute..to the next you can be tossed out at any moment of little clicks. It was freeing to realize I don’t need you to pat my head because in an instant, you may bop me on my head.

Another was concerning being a seer(another thread)… I felt like He helped with that one too. It became clear if everyone through Faith sees …then all are seers. To me I thought that was brilliant(level the field and make it equal). I don’t think it come from me. To me it takes away (room) for all boasting..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sadly, when we are stuck in our own thinking, in pride, we can not tolerate when people disagree with us, We are so offended we have to lash out.

I meant @Nancy I did not know Rita was no longer a mod.. Thank you

 

[Ritajanice]

Colossians 1

King James Version

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1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timotheus our brother,
2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;
6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth:
7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ;
8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.
9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:
29 Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I don't see any issue with the Jews being, under a separate part of the same covenant. It could be said that the Jews would be more accountable to God because He gave them the Holy Scriptures and showed them favor than the Gentiles. But at the end of the day, every single person who was ever saved after Adam, to this day was saved by the Blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are many scriptures which speak of God electing to save a certain number of people before He created the world. We can understand this in several ways but the fact remains. Some say God looked down the corridors of time and saw Johnny helping the old lady cross the street and decided that Johnny was a good boy, while others say it had nothing to do with Johnny being a good boy and everything to do with Gods sovereign choice. Either way Johnny was saved.

The Jewish system, only provided temporal forgiveness of sin. So they had to keep burning animals and keeping all kinds of laws. All of those things were types and shadows of what Jesus would fulfill once and for all. The Jews looked to the coming Messiah for their salvation, just as we look back to His coming for our salivation.

True

In all ages (dispensations or whatever you want to call them) with the exception of the age of innocent (pre-fall) all men have been born dead. And the only means to be restored has been grace.

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accredited, imputed, accounted (whatever word you want to use) as righteous.

not because he was righteous, But because he had faith

 

[Episkopos]

I don’t think I’m overthinking it. You came at me hard concerning “he himself saved by fire.” So I was thinking of your strong assertion of all that you said, of the accusations. No I didn’t agree with what you were saying. If God gives us discernment …I say if because I do realize it could be my own voice. But lately two things seemed to be given that I don’t think come from me. One was to see how fickle flattery is. How unstable it is our fleeting agreements and forming our little clicks one minute..to the next you can be tossed out at any moment of little clicks. It was freeing to realize I don’t need you to pat my head because in an instant, you may bop me on my head.

I'm not seeing this as a carrot and a stick but as a doctrine that spoils people from seeking God. If you think you are that precious that God only wants to purge you from your sins AFTER you die...then there is no point to faith in the gospel. The gospel saves us, purges us...NOW. Or it is futile.

Purgatory is now or not at all.

Another was concerning being a seer(another thread)… I felt like He helped with that one too. It became clear if everyone through Faith sees …then all are seers. To me I thought that was brilliant(level the field and make it equal). I don’t think it come from me. To me it takes away (room) for all boasting..

Seers? I don't know what is being promoted on other threads...but all are seers?

Are all prophets? Do all speak in tongues?

I think there is a LOT of speculation and little to no evidence that people are operating on that kind of level.

 

[Episkopos]

True

In all ages (dispensations or whatever you want to call them) with the exception of the age of innocent (pre-fall) all men have been born dead. And the only means to be restored has been grace.

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was accredited, imputed, accounted (whatever word you want to use) as righteous.

not because he was righteous, But because he had faith

That's false. You are saying you don't believe in God imputing righteousness on those who have faith. God is not a pretender. Unlike people who CLAIM to have God's own righteousness based on religious beliefs, assumptions, and presumptions.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I'm not seeing this as a carrot and a stick but as a doctrine that spoils people from seeking God. If you think you are that precious that God only wants to purge you from your sins AFTER you die...then there is no point to faith in the gospel. The gospel saves us, purges us...NOW. Or it is futile.

Your right, He has forgiven us our sins now. He puts them as far as the east is from the Wes

Purgatory is now or not at all.

There is no purgatory. You can;t pay for your sins

Seers? I don't know what is being promoted on other threads...but all are seers?

Are all prophets? Do all speak in tongues?

I think there is a LOT of speculation and little to no evidence that people are operating on that kind of level.

Agree

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's false. You are saying you don't believe in God imputing righteousness on those who have faith.

I said no such thing, there you go falsly accusing again

God imputed righteousness to Abraham because he had faith, He will I put it to us also

Romans 4:
13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law areheirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.

16 Therefore it is of faith that it might beaccording to grace, so that the promise might be [d]sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

God is not a pretender. Unlike people who CLAIM to have God's own righteousness based on religious beliefs, assumptions, and presumptions.

Your right, he is not

He said the wage of sin is death, You can pretend you are not dead all you want. God knows. And he will hold you accountable unless you repent and come to him

 

[Ritajanice]

This is the way you see things.

I don’t see it this way...I see it as disagreeing, not lashing out as you call it.

Eternally Grateful said:
Sadly, when we are stuck in our own thinking, in pride, we can not tolerate when people disagree with us, We are so offended we have to lash out.

 

[Ritajanice]

Full context of scripture.

Romans 4

New International Version

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Abraham Justified by Faith​

4 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6 David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[b]
9 Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We have been saying that Abraham’s faith was credited to him as righteousness. 10 Under what circumstances was it credited? Was it after he was circumcised, or before? It was not after, but before! 11 And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. So then, he is the father of all who believe but have not been circumcised, in order that righteousness might be credited to them. 12 And he is then also the father of the circumcised who not only are circumcised but who also follow in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless, 15 because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all. 17 As it is written: “I have made you a father of many nations.”[c] He is our father in the sight of God, in whom he believed—the God who gives life to the dead and calls into being things that were not.
18 Against all hope, Abraham in hope believed and so became the father of many nations, just as it had been said to him, “So shall your offspring be.”[d] 19 Without weakening in his faith, he faced the fact that his body was as good as dead—since he was about a hundred years old—and that Sarah’s womb was also dead. 20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I'm not seeing this as a carrot and a stick but as a doctrine that spoils people from seeking God. If you think you are that precious that God only wants to purge you from your sins AFTER you die...then there is no point to faith in the gospel. The gospel saves us, purges us...NOW. Or it is futile.

Purgatory is now or not at all.

See. That is far from what it says to me about the “he himself saved by fire.” It was a life long journey. Where did this chaff …this if he suffers loss of his works burned …these works “of chaff” was during life. Did I say God only wants to purge you of your sins after death? I only meant it could be one who “he himself saved by fire” as one who was purged of his sins “the chaff” through and by the fire. I don’t have to convince you though. But I’ll say it again …Paul spoke boldly of suffering the loss of all things …to me I hear yet “he himself saved” even as by Fire.
2 Corinthians 11:18-33 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. [19] For you suffer fools gladly, seeing you yourselves are wise. [20] For you suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. [21] I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. [22] Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. [23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. [28] Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. [29] Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? [30] If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. [31] The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not. [32] In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: [33] And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.

Seers? I don't know what is being promoted on other threads...but all are seers?

Are all prophets? Do all speak in tongues?

I think there is a LOT of speculation and little to no evidence that people are operating on that kind of level.

Nevermind. All I meant was when the vail is removed in Christ concerning seeing. But it will give us something else to debate over.

 

[Episkopos]

See. That is far from what it says to me about the “he himself saved by fire.” It was a life long journey. Where did this chaff …this if he suffers loss of his works burned …these works “of chaff” was during life. Did I say God only wants to purge you of your sins after death? I only meant it could be one who “he himself saved by fire” as one who was purged of his sins “the chaff” through and by the fire. I don’t have to convince you though. But I’ll say it again …Paul spoke boldly of suffering the loss of all things …to me I hear yet “he himself saved” even as by Fire.
2 Corinthians 11:18-33 Seeing that many glory after the flesh, I will glory also. [19] For you suffer fools gladly, seeing you yourselves are wise. [20] For you suffer, if a man bring you into bondage, if a man devour you, if a man take of you, if a man exalt himself, if a man smite you on the face. [21] I speak as concerning reproach, as though we had been weak. Howbeit whereinsoever any is bold, (I speak foolishly,) I am bold also. [22] Are they Hebrews? so am I. Are they Israelites? so am I. Are they the seed of Abraham? so am I. [23] Are they ministers of Christ? (I speak as a fool) I am more; in labours more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. [24] Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. [25] Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; [26] In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; [27] In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and nakedness. [28] Beside those things that are without, that which cometh upon me daily, the care of all the churches. [29] Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not? [30] If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities. [31] The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knows that I lie not. [32] In Damascus the governor under Aretas the king kept the city of the Damascenes with a garrison, desirous to apprehend me: [33] And through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and escaped his hands.




Nevermind. All I meant was when the vail is removed in Christ concerning seeing. But it will give us something else to debate over.

Waiting to die to be "purged" of one's sins is the height of futility. Fear God and depart from evil...now...before you die.

 

[Lizbeth]

Another thought on this. The difference we need to know is between what we THINK has been imputed to us and what we are actually doing. No one is judged by what they think is imputed to them...but by their works.

Pretenders are NOT encouraged in the Body of Christ...or they shouldn't be.

According to Jesus the work of God is to believe in He who God has sent......so apparently our faith is a kind of "work" we will be judged on as well. What don't we get about "God calling those things which be not as though they are"...? AKA that's what imputed means in those verses...he is telling us straight up, and it means what it says.

As long as you aren't defining "pretenders" as those who don't agree with your doctrine, or some of it. I'm sure there are pretenders but surely there is a difference between pretenders and those who are sincerely seeking to obey the Lord and are growing in their faith but aren't fully matured yet. I get the impression that "As many as be perfect..." .....and "You who are spiritual..." were in the minority even in the early church. It's normal for there to be more children than grown ups I would think.