Where was Jesus between his death and resurrection?

[Johann]

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit 1 Pe 3:18.

Do you believe this to be true?

4:24 God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” Jn 4:24.

Can God be made alive? Can God die? Can God be tempted with evil?

Christ was put to death in the Flesh
How was Christ made alive by the Spirit?

You have an odd way in your interpretation of Scriptures.

God as Spirit and the Nature of Jesus' Death

John 4:24 teaches us that God is Spirit, meaning He is immaterial and eternal. He cannot die or be subjected to physical limitations like death or temptation. However, the Incarnation is where we understand that Christ, while fully divine, also took on human flesh-allowing Him to experience human limitations such as death and suffering.
Christ’s Death in the Flesh

In 1 Peter 3:18, the phrase "put to death in the flesh" refers to the human nature of Jesus. Jesus’ body was crucified, and He truly experienced physical death. However, His divine nature did not cease to exist, as God cannot die (since He is eternal).
How was Christ made alive by the Spirit?

When it says He was "made alive by the Spirit" (ἐν πνεύματι), it can be understood as referring to His resurrection. The Greek here indicates a contrast between His mortal flesh and His spiritual vitality post-resurrection. His body was transformed into a glorified, imperishable state, raised by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11).
Can God be tempted or die?

James 1:13 affirms that God cannot be tempted by evil, but Jesus, as the God-man, was able to experience temptation in His human nature (Hebrews 4:15). Likewise, God cannot die, but in the person of Jesus Christ, the Son of God took on flesh and experienced death on behalf of humanity. His divine nature remained unaffected by death, but His human nature experienced the full reality of it.

Jesus Christ, being fully God and fully man, experienced death in His human flesh, and through the power of the Holy Spirit, He was raised to life in a glorified, spiritual state. His divine essence remained intact and could not die, but His human body did, and it was made alive again by the Spirit's power. This highlights the mystery of the Incarnation, where Christ could both die and live again, offering eternal life to those who believe.

Enjoy your day. [Gospel 101]

J.

 

[face2face]

When the conversation drifts away from addressing the references, specifically that Jesus pre-existed with the Father (pros ton theon), and gets sidetracked with irrelevant points, I know it's time to step back from this discussion.

However, I’d gladly engage with you in real-time, face to face.

That said, I do believe it's worth reconsidering your years of studies.

Shalom,
J.

The relevance of Christ being in the Mind of the Father from the foundation of the World including all those Elect in Him is extremely relevant because Christ and his body cannot be separated!

The context of your quote in John 17 is sufficiently clear that Christ is not "Very God". His power and authority are derived, not innate:

just as you have given him authority over all humanity, so that he may give eternal life to everyone you have given him. Jn 17:2.

J. This is what you would expect to see from Christ who manifests the One true God.

You know this is true but your resources won't allow you to see it.

F2F

 

[Johann]

Clearly you are struggling with 1 Peter 3:18 - I get it!

8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you Ro 8:11.

Does this help?

The same Spirit which made Christ alive (who was dead!) will also make your dead body alive through God's Spirit which lives in us.

So I ask again

How was Christ made alive by the Spirit?

F2F @Johann

(I imagine J. is searching his commentaries now trying to find a suitable answer!)

The reason I don't want to engage you since you are resorting to circular reasoning and not really addressing the Scriptures presented to you.
A preconceived, biased mindset.

J.

 

[face2face]

When it says He was "made alive by the Spirit" (ἐν πνεύματι), it can be understood as referring to His resurrection. The Greek here indicates a contrast between His mortal flesh and His spiritual vitality post-resurrection.

Your inference J.

His body was transformed into a glorified, imperishable state, raised by the power of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:11).
Can God be tempted or die?

No He cannot!

James 1:13 affirms that God cannot be tempted by evil, but Jesus, as the God-man,

Wow there it is J...I was waiting for you to say this and the admission is startling especially given the Scripture is silent on such a being.

You have just created a god J. in your own image! It's idolatry in it's purest form.

This post does not explain how Christ and you are made alive by the Spirit.

F2F

 

[face2face]

The reason I don't want to engage you since you are resorting to circular reasoning and not really addressing the Scriptures presented to you.
A preconceived, biased mindset.

J.

This is your way of escape...you have used this excuse many times when the questions move you into an untenable position.

I've asked you how you and Christ are made alive by the Spirit and you are yet to adress the context of 1 Peter 3 and while you seperate Christ from his Flesh which the Word does not do, you still need to explain how God can be made alive by the Spirit.

Try again

F2F

 

[Johann]

Your inference J.

No He cannot!


Wow there it is J...I was waiting for you to say this and the admission is startling especially given the Scripture is silent on such a being.

You have just created a god J. in your own image! It's idolatry in it's purest form.

This post does not explain how Christ and you are made alive by the Spirit.

F2F

You seem to be quite sly and deceptive, selectively quoting excerpts from what I post to twist my words and portray me as the liar while presenting yourself as squeaky clean. It appears you're confused about the relationship between the Messiah and the believer, struggling to reconcile it in your thought processes, which leads you to resort to ad hominem attacks.


The Work of the Holy Spirit
John 3:5-6 (NKJV): "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Here, Jesus emphasizes that spiritual rebirth occurs through the Holy Spirit. The term "born of the Spirit" indicates that the believer is brought to life spiritually, transcending their previous state of spiritual death.

2. Faith in Christ
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV): "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Salvation and being made alive come through faith in Jesus Christ. Believers place their trust in Christ's atoning work, and this faith is enabled by grace.

3. The Gospel as the Means of Life
Romans 1:16 (NKJV): "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes..."
The Gospel is the message through which God’s power operates. When believers hear and respond to the Gospel, they are called to life from their spiritual deadness.

4. Union with Christ
Colossians 2:13 (NKJV): "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."
Believers are united with Christ in His death and resurrection. This union results in the transfer from a state of spiritual death due to sin to a state of being made alive through forgiveness and new life in Him.

5. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:11 (NKJV): "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
The indwelling Holy Spirit empowers believers, enabling them to live according to God's will and providing assurance of their new life in Christ.

6. Transformation of Life
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJV): "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
Believers experience a radical transformation in their lives, often referred to as being a new creation. This transformation involves changes in desires, thoughts, and actions, reflecting their new identity in Christ.

Believers are made alive through the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit, by faith in Christ, and through the transformative power of the Gospel. This process involves a spiritual rebirth that leads to a new life characterized by a personal relationship with Christ, empowerment by the Holy Spirit, and a commitment to living according to God's will. The believer's identity changes fundamentally, from being spiritually dead in sin to being alive in Christ, reflecting His life, purpose, and mission.

But now we are WAY off re Messiah as mere "thought" in the mind of YHVH.

This is deceptive.

J.

 

[face2face]

You seem to be quite sly and deceptive, selectively quoting excerpts from what I post to twist my words and portray me as the liar while presenting yourself as squeaky clean. It appears you're confused about the relationship between the Messiah and the believer, struggling to reconcile it in your thought processes, which leads you to resort to ad hominem attacks.

J. your approach is to copy and paste a bunch of commentaries as though they are truth and the authors of truth.

They are not!

You said you beleive in a god-man; a creation in the minds of men who did not consult the inspired Word but myths and philosophical beliefs. You have chosen to adopt those as your own. You don't deny this and are rather open about your sources and where you stand.

I am showing you from the Word the orginal Gospel untouched by human hands.

The Work of the Holy Spirit
John 3:5-6 (NKJV): "Jesus answered, 'Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit."
Here, Jesus emphasizes that spiritual rebirth occurs through the Holy Spirit. The term "born of the Spirit" indicates that the believer is brought to life spiritually, transcending their previous state of spiritual death.

How was Christ born of the Spirit J.

I know you can see the issue and I know your commentaries cannot help you.

2. Faith in Christ
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV): "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast."
Salvation and being made alive come through faith in Jesus Christ. Believers place their trust in Christ's atoning work, and this faith is enabled by grace.

Correct but we are speaking about Christ!

How was Christ vindicated and made alive by the Spirit if you say he is God.

3. The Gospel as the Means of Life
Romans 1:16 (NKJV): "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes..."
The Gospel is the message through which God’s power operates. When believers hear and respond to the Gospel, they are called to life from their spiritual deadness.

True.

4. Union with Christ
Colossians 2:13 (NKJV): "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses."
Believers are united with Christ in His death and resurrection. This union results in the transfer from a state of spiritual death due to sin to a state of being made alive through forgiveness and new life in Him.

Okay good, so you post a verse which shows (Like Romans 8) you and Christ are made alive together - Jesus is no different to you in this matter of being made alive - he is the firstbegotten from the dead and there will be more.

5. Indwelling of the Holy Spirit
Romans 8:11 (NKJV): "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you."
The indwelling Holy Spirit empowers believers, enabling them to live according to God's will and providing assurance of their new life in Christ.

Once dead you are dead J. - nothing happens!

So how was Christ made alive by the Spirit

What had to happen?
What did happen?
Why was it so Victorious?

6. Transformation of Life
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NKJV): "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."
Believers experience a radical transformation in their lives, often referred to as being a new creation. This transformation involves changes in desires, thoughts, and actions, reflecting their new identity in Christ.

Is Christ that new Creation

Yes or No?

Believers are made alive through the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit, by faith in Christ, and through the transformative power of the Gospel. This process involves a spiritual rebirth that leads to a new life characterized by a personal relationship with Christ, empowerment by the Holy Spirit, and a commitment to living according to God's will. The believer's identity changes fundamentally, from being spiritually dead in sin to being alive in Christ, reflecting His life, purpose, and mission.

But now we are WAY off re Messiah as mere "thought" in the mind of YHVH.

This is deceptive.

J.

Did Christ experience this spiritual rebirth?

If so, how so?
When did it happen?
What happened to the Lord? His nature?

F2F

 

[Johann]

This is your way of escape...you have used this excuse many times when the questions move you into an untenable position.

I've asked you how you and Christ are made alive by the Spirit and you are yet to adress the context of 1 Peter 3 and while you seperate Christ from his Flesh which the Word does not do, you still need to explain how God can be made alive by the Spirit.

It is for your own good I choose not to engage.

J.

 

[Johann]

J. your approach is to copy and paste a bunch of commentaries as though they are truth and the authors of truth.

They are not!

You said you beleive in a god-man; a creation in the minds of men who did not consult the inspired Word but myths and philosophical beliefs. You have chosen to adopt those as your own. You don't deny this and are rather open about your sources and where you stand.

I am showing you from the Word the orginal Gospel untouched by human hands.


How was Christ born of the Spirit J.

I know you can see the issue and I know your commentaries cannot help you.


Correct but we are speaking about Christ!

How was Christ vindicated and made alive by the Spirit if you say he is God.


True.


Okay good, so you post a verse which shows (Like Romans 8) you and Christ are made alive together - Jesus is no different to you in this matter of being made alive - he is the firstbegotten from the dead and there will be more.



Once dead you are dead J. - nothing happens!

So how was Christ made alive by the Spirit

What had to happen?
What did happen?
Why was it so Victorious?



Is Christ that new Creation

Yes or No?


Did Christ experience this spiritual rebirth?

If so, how so?
When did it happen?
What happened to the Lord? His nature?

F2F

You are stumped F2F, hence the numerous questions.

I stand on the side of Truth-which side are you?

J.

 

[face2face]

So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” 20:3 Then Peter and the other disciple set out to go to the tomb Jn 20:2–3.

@J. out of interest, if the disciples believed as you do, why would they be concerned about the Lords body?

If his body is him, and he is dead, it makes sense to be concerned.

How would they react if they understood disembodied spirits wafting off to who knows where?

It's just not in the record is it J.

F2F

 

[face2face]

You are stumped F2F, hence the numerous questions.

I stand on the side of Truth-which side are you?

J.

The questions are for your benefit J.
I'm waiting for you to tackle them with your commentaries.
If not, have a go yourself.
How are you and Christ both made alive by the Spirit - Christ being the firstfruits from the dead!
How and why?
I know, just wanting to lead you into truth
F2F

 

[Johann]

So she went running to Simon Peter and the other disciple whom Jesus loved and told them, “They have taken the Lord from the tomb, and we don’t know where they have put him!” 20:3 Then Peter and the other disciple set out to go to the tomb Jn 20:2–3.

@J. out of interest, if the disciples believed as you do, why would they be concerned about the Lords body?

If his body is him, and he is dead, it makes sense to be concerned.

How would the react if they understood disembodied spirits wafting off to who knows where?

It's just not in the record is it J.

F2F

This is unbelievable, coming from you.

Do you believe Messiah was a created being?

 

[face2face]

This is unbelievable, coming from you.

Do you believe Messiah was a created being?

You are told J.
From your own words you said Christ was a New Creation - Spiritual
You have said he has a start and a beginning
You admitted he was made alive by his Fathers Spirit which raised him (and the elect) from the dead.
It's all there J.
F2F

 

[Johann]

You are told J.
From your own words you said Christ was a New Creation - Spiritual
You have said he has a start and a beginning
You admitted he was made alive by his Fathers Spirit which raised him (and the elect) from the dead.
It's all there J.
F2F

Do you believe Messiah is a created being-Yes or no?

J.

 

[face2face]

Do you believe Messiah is a created being-Yes or no?

J.

It's what we are told J.

1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory—the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. Jn 1:14.

That Word came from the Father and was conceived in the Line of Adam - called the Son of David after the Flesh.

Even in His Glorified & Exalted state he calls himself the root and offspring of David.

How can God be the offspring of David?

F2F

 

[Johann]

It's what we are told J.

1:14 Now the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory—the glory of the one and only, full of grace and truth, who came from the Father. Jn 1:14.

That Word came from the Father and was conceived in the Line of Adam - called the Son of David after the Flesh.

Even in His Glorified & Exalted state he calls himself the root and offspring of David.

How can God be the offspring of David?

F2F

I believe this debate between us has reached its conclusion. I would recommend that you seek out some excellent exegetical commentaries to help you understand the grammar, syntax, and morphology of the words in Scripture.

Please note that I am being cordial with you, but I encourage you to adopt a fresh approach to the Scriptures using the necessary tools to equip yourself for rightly dividing the Word of God.

I'll leave you with this.

Joh 1:1 enG1722 PREP archEG746 N-DSF EnG1510 V-IAI-3S oG3588 T-NSM logosG3056 N-NSM kaiG2532 CONJ oG3588 T-NSM logosG3056 N-NSM EnG1510 V-IAI-3S prosG4314 PREP tonG3588 T-ASM theonG2316 N-ASM kaiG2532 CONJ theosG2316 N-NSM EnG1510 V-IAI-3S oG3588 T-NSM logosG3056 N-NSM
In the beginning (en archēi). Archē is definite, though anarthrous like our at home, in town, and the similar Hebrew be reshith in Gen_1:1. But Westcott notes that here John carries our thoughts beyond the beginning of creation in time to eternity. There is no argument here to prove the existence of God any more than in Genesis. It is simply assumed. Either God exists and is the Creator of the universe as scientists like Eddington and Jeans assume or matter is eternal or it has come out of nothing.

Was (ēn). Three times in this sentence John uses this imperfect of eimi to be which conveys no idea of origin for God or for the Logos, simply continuous existence. Quite a different verb (egeneto, became) appears in Joh_1:14 for the beginning of the Incarnation of the Logos. See the distinction sharply drawn in Joh_8:58 “before Abraham came (genesthai) I am” (eimi, timeless existence).

The Word (ho logos). Logos is from legō, old word in Homer to lay by, to collect, to put words side by side, to speak, to express an opinion. Logos is common for reason as well as speech. Heraclitus used it for the principle which controls the universe. The Stoics employed it for the soul of the world (anima mundi) and Marcus Aurelius used spermatikos logos for the generative principle in nature. The Hebrew memra was used in the Targums for the manifestation of God like the Angel of Jehovah and the Wisdom of God in Pro_8:23. Dr. J. Rendel Harris thinks that there was a lost wisdom book that combined phrases in Proverbs and in the Wisdom of Solomon which John used for his Prologue (The Origin of the Prologue to St. John, p. 43) which he has undertaken to reproduce. At any rate John’s standpoint is that of the Old Testament and not that of the Stoics nor even of Philo who uses the term Logos, but not John’s conception of personal pre-existence. The term Logos is applied to Christ only in Joh_1:1, Joh_1:14; Rev_19:13; 1Jn_1:1 “concerning the Word of life” (an incidental argument for identity of authorship). There is a possible personification of “the Word of God” in Heb_4:12. But the personal pre-existence of Christ is taught by Paul (2Co_8:9; Php_2:6.; Col_1:17) and in Heb_1:2. and in Joh_17:5. This term suits John’s purpose better than sophia (wisdom) and is his answer to the Gnostics who either denied the actual humanity of Christ (Docetic Gnostics) or who separated the aeon Christ from the man Jesus (Cerinthian Gnostics). The pre-existent Logos “became flesh” (sarx egeneto, Joh_1:14) and by this phrase John answered both heresies at once.

With God (pros ton theon). Though existing eternally with God the Logos was in perfect fellowship with God. Pros with the accusative presents a plane of equality and intimacy, face to face with each other. In 1Jn_2:1 we have a like use of pros: “We have a Paraclete with the Father” (paraklēton echomen pros ton patera). See prosōpon pros prosōpon (face to face, 1Co_13:12), a triple use of pros. There is a papyrus example of pros in this sense to gnōston tēs pros allēlous sunētheias, “the knowledge of our intimacy with one another” (M.&M., Vocabulary) which answers the claim of Rendel Harris, Origin of Prologue, p. 8) that the use of pros here and in Mar_6:3 is a mere Aramaism. It is not a classic idiom, but this is Koiné, not old Attic. In Joh_17:5 John has para soi the more common idiom.
And the Word was God (kai theos ēn ho logos). By exact and careful language John denied Sabellianism by not saying ho theos ēn ho logos. That would mean that all of God was expressed in ho logos and the terms would be interchangeable, each having the article. The subject is made plain by the article (ho logos) and the predicate without it (theos) just as in Joh_4:24 pneuma ho theos can only mean “God is spirit,” not “spirit is God.” So in 1Jn_4:16 ho theos agapē estin can only mean “God is love,” not “love is God” as a so-called Christian scientist would confusedly say. For the article with the predicate see Robertson, Grammar, pp. 767f. So in Joh_1:14 ho Logos sarx egeneto, “the Word became flesh,” not “the flesh became Word.” Luther argues that here John disposes of Arianism also because the Logos was eternally God, fellowship of Father and Son, what Origen called the Eternal Generation of the Son (each necessary to the other). Thus in the Trinity we see personal fellowship on an equality.
RWP.

--and do read up on the ECF' with discernment.

Shalom.

J.

 

[wooddog]

Clearly you are struggling with 1 Peter 3:18 - I get it!

8:11 Moreover if the Spirit of the one who raised Jesus from the dead lives in you, the one who raised Christ from the dead will also make your mortal bodies alive through his Spirit who lives in you Ro 8:11.

Does this help?

The same Spirit which made Christ alive (who was dead!) will also make your dead body alive through God's Spirit which lives in us.

So I ask again

How was Christ made alive by the Spirit?

F2F @Johann

(I imagine J. is searching his commentaries now trying to find a suitable answer!)

John 3;3 fits quite nicely here.

 

[face2face]

John 3;3 fits quite nicely here.

Ah yes, very good quote

3:3 Jesus replied, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
Jn 3:3.

@Johann will Logos do this? Did Logos make the Lord alive? Can you be seperated from Christ?

F2F

 

[Taken]

18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit 1 Pe 3:18.

Do you believe this to be true?

Sure.

4:24 God is spirit, and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” Jn 4:24.

Uh huh, Yes.

Can God be made alive? Can God die? Can God be tempted with evil?

God IS SPIRIT.
Jesus IS GOD, thus IS SPIRIT.
God can NOT DIE.

Can God be Tempted “WITH” EVIL?
No.
Can God be Tempted “BY” an EVIL Tempter?
Yes.
Can God “BE” influenced and React “In TEMPTATION of an evil tempter?
No.

Christ was put to death in the Flesh
How was Christ made alive by the Spirit?

JESUS…(not Christ) was PREPARED a body of FLESH…and SENT to Earth, from out of God’s MOUTH, in Heaven.

JESUS’…(prepared BODY) was expressly PREPARED and sent to EARTH, to seek the tribes of Israel and teach and preach the Word of God to THEM…and then willingly GIVE HIS “prepared” body unto death for the “tribes of Israel” to witness.

And thereafter FOR the “tribes of Israel” and Gentiles to wItness Jesus” BODY resuming BODILY LIFE.

A physically DEAD BODY…
The living soul Departs OUT of the Body.
A physically Dead BODY, that the Living soul “returns” to the Body…the Body resumes Living.

It is the POWER of Gods SPIRIT, that “CAN” return a living soul TO a DEAD BODY, that that BODY resumes LIVING.

When Jesus’ BODY DIED…His SOUL departed…BY Gods POWER….Gods POWER IS CHRIST! By Gods POWER CHRIST…Jesus’ departed SOUL, went to hell and PREACHED.
By Gods POWER…Jesus’ SOUL returned to His Dead BODY. His DEAD BODY resumed LIVING…

JESUS is the WORD of God, LIFE, TRUTH, WAY….
An other THINKING, SPEAKING A LIE, about Gods WORD…”IS” Killing Gods WORD!

BEFORE manKIND was CREATED…Lucifer, an Angel….THOUGHT He could RISE UP “ABOVE” God…which was/IS a LIE, thus Lucifer WAS PUNISHED for His LIE or KILING Gods WORD….and His punishment was he LOST access to HIS Estate / Habitat…Heaven…and SENT DOWN to the estate / habitat being created for manKind….Earth.

Jesus’ Prepared body “WILLINGLY” DIED.
Christ, the Power of God returned Jesus’ Soul to His Body.

CHRIST IS the SPIRIT of God…
Gods SPIRIT IS His Glory and POWER…


You have no obligation to BELIEVE what I say….however you SHOULD CONSIDER Believing what the Word of God says…

John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.


John 1O:
[17] Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
[18] No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[face2face]

I believe this debate between us has reached its conclusion. I would recommend that you seek out some excellent exegetical commentaries to help you understand the grammar, syntax, and morphology of the words in Scripture.

This is your problem. Syntax drives your dogma...the wise of this world have been doing this for centuries.

Please note that I am being cordial with you, but I encourage you to adopt a fresh approach to the Scriptures using the necessary tools to equip yourself for rightly dividing the Word of God.

I've shown you the principle of God Manifestation which seems to be unfamiliar to you. God was "in" Christ reconciling the world to Himself!

I can explain how, you seem to want to remove the word "in" - that is your method of exegesis. To rightly divide the Word you need to put away your so called "tools" and read afresh.

It's the only way you can be shown truth.

Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look

how did they inquire?

Have you not read? Do you not know what the Scripture says?

The irony here is I am asking you to put away that which is causing you offense and you are asking me to go and use that which causes you offense!

Can you see the irony?

You proceed to quote from your many works without asking the right questions for yourself. God will reveal His wisdom to those who search it honestly with a genuine heart.

You will fruitlessly try and separate Christ from his body and no matter how hard you try you will fail every time because the Word was made flesh and given life and existence by His Spirit which is His Word...the same Word which will make the Saints alive.

F2F