CALVINISM IS SIMPLY THE GOSPEL BELIEVED

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Grailhunter

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@Ritajanice

Respectfully

2Cor:5:10: For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1st John:3:8: The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Matthew 7:22-2 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Hebrew 6:4-8
4: For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5: And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6: If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7: For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

Hebrews 10:26-31
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27: But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28: He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30: For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31: It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

2nd Peter 2:4-22
4: For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment 5: And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6: And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; 7: And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds 9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished: 10: But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11: Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12: But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they nderstand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13: And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14: Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15: Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16: But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet. 17: These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18: For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19: While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20: For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21: For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22: But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

2Pt:2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

2Pt:3:7: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Jude:1:15: To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Rom:1:32: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom:5:12: Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Rom:6:12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Rom:6:13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Rom:6:16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom:7:23: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

1Cor:15:56: The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

Gal:3:22: But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Rom:3:23: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
 
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Ritajanice

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Respectfully @Grailhunter ..I too have posted the word of God...for all to see.

God Bless.


Romans 8
King James Version
8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.



◄ 2 Corinthians 3 ►
Berean Standard Bible Par ▾
Ministers of a New Covenant
1Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2You yourselves are our letter, inscribed on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3It is clear that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4Such confidence before God is ours through Christ. 5Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim that anything comes from us, but our competence comes from God. 6And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

The Glory of the New Covenant
(Exodus 34:10–35)
7Now if the ministry of death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at the face of Moses because of its fleeting glory, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9For if the ministry of condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry of righteousness! 10Indeed, what was once glorious has no glory now in comparison to the glory that surpasses it. 11For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!

12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at the end of what was fading away.

14But their minds were closed. For to this day the same veil remains at the reading of the old covenant. It has not been lifted, because only in Christ can it be removed. 15And even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
 
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Logikos

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Well now, hold on a minute. Assurance of Salvation is a rather important cornerstone for one's faith. I, personally, firmly, believe that Jesus Christ saved me from perdition. I have assurance of that. OSAS can't be handwaved away that easily. Saints need perseverance.
The Calvinist version of once saved always saved (Perseverance of the saints) is ridiculous nonsense. It's blatantly (I believe intentionally) unfalsifiable, not to mention completely unbiblical.

You, however, are not wrong and the hysterical people who want to tell you that you're going to Hell for believing it are fools. Ignore them. They know neither the gospel nor, it seems, even how to think clearly.

The fact is that if you believe that God became a man and died for your sin. If you likewise call on Him and His sacrifice to save you from your sin and believe that Jesus rose from the dead, then you WILL be saved. What's more is that you can rest in that settled fact because you have been sealed with the Holy Spirit "unto the Day of Redemption", Paul tells us. He further tells us in more than one place that God has given you His Holy Spirit as an earnest payment. I'm sure you know how earnest payments work, but for those reading this that don't, an earnest payment is a guarantee that is put up by the buyer in some transaction and that the buyer agrees to forfeit if the deal doesn't go through. God would literally have to deny Himself and forfeit His Spirit if you, or any saved person, are not delivered safe to the Day of Redemption.

Now, I'm sure you'll have noticed on your own, but for those slower readers out there, I just want to explicitly point out that what I just described above doesn't have anything to do with predestination, or foreknowledge or God existing outside of time or any other Aristotelian, Augustinian, Catholic or Calvinist doctrine. It is purely drawn directly from the plain reading of the text of the Pauline epistles and nothing else.


"The Proper Attitude of Man Under Grace:
"To believe, and to consent to be loved while unworthy, is the great secret.​
"To refuse to make ‘resolutions’ and ‘vows’; for that is to trust in the flesh.​
"To expect to be blessed, though realizing more and more lack of worth…​
"To rely on God’s chastening [child training] hand as a mark of His kindness…​

"Things Which Gracious Souls Discover:
"To ‘hope to be better’ [hence acceptable] is to fail to see yourself in Christ only.
"To be disappointed with yourself, is to have believed in yourself.​
"To be discouraged is unbelief,—as to God’s purpose and plan of blessing for you.​
"To be proud, is to be blind! For we have no standing before God, in ourselves.
"The lack of Divine blessing, therefore, comes from unbelief, and not from failure of devotion…

"To preach devotion first, and blessing second, is to reverse God’s order, and preach law, not grace. The Law made man’s blessing depend on devotion; Grace confers undeserved, unconditional blessing: our devotion may follow, but does not always do so,—in proper measure."​

Have we been afraid to really believe God? Have some even been afraid to allow others to really believe Him? We must never forget that "God’s ways are not always man’s ways. To some men constant peril is the only spur to action, and many religions and psychologies are dependent on fear to keep their disciples in line. Fear, too, has a place in Christianity, but God has higher and more effective motivations than fear, and one of these is love. Often fear after a while produces only numbness, but love thrives on love. To promise a man the certainty of his destiny may seem, on the human level, like playing with fire; but this leaves God out of the picture. Those who have the deepest appreciation of grace do not continue in sin. Moreover, fear produces the obedience of slaves; love engenders the obedience of sons" (J. W. Sanderson, Jr.). - Excerpted from Principles of Spiritual Growth by Miles J. Stanford
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Stop moving the goalposts. And please don't broad-stroke the faith of entire denominations, without even properly understanding what they actually believed in.
'I don't say who is saved or who isn't' card is old and overused, you know.
wow, A new member who thinks he knows what a person understands about others, and comes in swinging? Were you here before? Off you would come slinging at @GodsGrace like that without even knowing her.

and PS. We can not judge who is saved or not. only God knows. I can judge a gospel. but I can not judge a person. thats Gods job not ours
 
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Eternally Grateful

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the Catholic Church (not the "Roman" Catholic Church - that's not its official title) is not a mere institution. It is a Divine entity, the Body of Christ, as St. Paul says. It has Christ as its head and the Holy Spirit as its soul. It is not a man-made organization by any stretch



Question from me..not sure this is on topic, apologies if it’s not...

If the Catholic Church is a divine entity , the Body Of Christ.

You say it’s not a man made organisation, so, did all those priests/ nuns abuse children, that we know to be true, ...was that all done under the authority of Jesus?

I mean isn’t the Catholic Church a divine entity, ?.....I’m not looking for any argument and I won’t take part in any of that, I’m just looking for answers about the Catholic Church being the truth?

Aren’t they supposed to be Born Of The Spirit, Born Of God’s seed? yet “ SOME” committed these perverted offences?
amen, this proves denominational churches are all flawed. There is no perfect church.
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Short side note. Christianity is not Bible-based. It's Church-based. The Catholic Church preceded the New Testament in writing. Christ didn't write a book to spread His truths. He taught orally. He founded a (ONE) Church in order to do so. It is this Church, the Catholic Church, that wrote the New Testament and compiled the Bible, not as a do-it-yourself kit, but as a tool of the Church. Jesus didn't come 16 centuries later and tell anyone they could go out and create 40,000+ new churches all based on someone's personal interpretation of a translation of a book His Church compiled, all with different and contradictory docrines, straying from the complete Deposit of Faith He gave His Church.
no pride here.

Its all about you and the organization you give your blind allegiance to.

Christianity is bible based. the word was around long before the church was. The church was started by Christ, based on his word. which HE WROTE. Not your church
 
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Eternally Grateful

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Right. This is the point I was making with @Eternally Grateful .
I like to find out what a denomination teaches...not what the persons attending THINK it teaches.
interesting, in that I made this same statement in post # 281,

as for what Catholics believe.

1. I have read much on their own website in investigating when they asked me to investigate their church
2. I have been talking to Catholics for many a year, and they all have the same basic theology and far as what they think of thier church. the Eucharist. The holy mother of God, acts of penance, confesing to a priest etc etc.

I also believe when the majority in a church all say the same thing, even just Sunday catholics, that it is probably true.

I would rather talk to induviduals to see what they believe. what is their truth. I have learned that even people who follow these so called theologies do not always believe everything. and if we just discuss or argue a theology, we tent to misrepresent what they believe
I don't know if it's a downward spiral or if it's that catholics don't accept doctrine as much as they used to.
I don't know many persons that go to confession...
Don't know many persons that accept transubstantiation...
Wonder if it is because people started to read the word. and started to see flaws in the eucharistic teaching. by the way, did you answer my post concerning this yet?
But look where I live...atheism is thriving.
The kids that go to catechism learn nothing at home...I'd say about 80% (from personal experience).
And what does an hour a week get?
Not much.

Agreed. And the "new" believers want direction and a church that is stable.
(I'm waiting for Francis to disappear).


I'm so jealous. I'm serious.

I think the other member said that the CC believes it was chosen by God.
I said that the Hebrews were chosen by God.
I'm not sure if Jesus meant for Judaism to change...at some point, in any case, He realized that something new would have to happen.
The CC came out of that. Does this mean that God CHOSE the CC?
God did not change the jews changed,

They rejected their messiah because like so many, they misunderstood the purpose of the law. thinking they were made right by the law. they did not need a savior.

The CC was not the result. The CC literally are identical to the jew.. it is just they follow a different law.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Saying it doesn't make it so.

What I said was not my opinion, it was the facts of history. Like it or lump it.


That is a lie! You knew that was false when you wrote it!
did he
Why is it that Catholics think its okay to tell bald faced lies in supposed defense of their church?
I do not think they believe it is a lie. I think they honestly believe what they say.
You aren't the first one I've come across who feels free to tell the most obvious lies. Who is it that you think this is going to convince?



Saying it doesn't make it so. If it were the case, it wouldn't have taken almost 400 years for it to have gotten itself organized and it certainly would never have allied itself with the Roman government while in the process of doing so.


Silly analogy. In actual fact, most people remain quite recognizable to those who are familiar with them throughout their lives and so the analogy doesn't work to begin with, but even if were based on something actually real, it still wouldn't work because all you've done here is say that the church can end up looking like anything at all, no matter how completely different that it looked when founded or even how it looks now.

By this standard, the Catholic Church could end up endorsing sexual perversion and have child molesting priests rampant throughout its ranks!

Oh, wait a minute!!!!


Hurry! I'm holding my breath!


I've already responded to this gem of stupidity. The church that Saul was persecuting was the bride of Christ, not Christ Himself. The body of Christ didn't even begin until the very episode you are citing, when Saul was converted and became Paul, the first member of the Body of Christ.
Your complete lack of understanding of the book of Acts is no surprise, however, because you do not care to learn God's word. You want to worship Mary and trust in religious rituals and good works for your salvation. If you're saved at all, which I good reason to doubt, you'll be among those who are saved as though through fire. (I Corinthians 3:15)
Actually Peter James and John were the leaders of the church in jerusalem. before Paul was converted and sent to the gentiles
 

Piers Plowman

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wow, A new member who thinks he knows what a person understands about others, and comes in swinging? Were you here before? Off you would come slinging at @GodsGrace like that without even knowing her.

and PS. We can not judge who is saved or not. only God knows. I can judge a gospel. but I can not judge a person. thats Gods job not ours
One would say being accused of 'denying the Holy Trinity' and 'disagreeing with regarding the Christian faith' is more like 'swinging' and 'slinging'. Ought not new members be treated in more hospitable manner? It takes two to make a board.
 

Piers Plowman

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Using 'We can not judge who is saved or not' card doesn't give you free pass in passing judgment unto an entire denomination.
 

GodsGrace

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Wow. So you attack Gods people and claim they are on a hayride to hell because they believe when Jesus it is finished and he gave them ETERNAL LIFE?
Did you see my post no. 337 re the above?
It explains why I disagree with OSAS so much...
which you actually might already know.
 

GodsGrace

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interesting, in that I made this same statement in post # 281,

as for what Catholics believe.

1. I have read much on their own website in investigating when they asked me to investigate their church
2. I have been talking to Catholics for many a year, and they all have the same basic theology and far as what they think of thier church. the Eucharist. The holy mother of God, acts of penance, confesing to a priest etc etc.
I'll have to agree with you here.
But regarding the Eucharist, I know for sure that about 80% of Catholics do not believe in transubstantiation.
Honesty, the more I read John 6, the more I'm tending to believe that either that is true, or at least, the Real Presence.
I say this because of John 6:53...in the Greek it means to chew on.

I also believe when the majority in a church all say the same thing, even just Sunday catholics, that it is probably true.
Even if what you state is not so,,,I'd say that if the majority all believe the same doctrine....even IF they believe wrong...
it's on the CC that it does NO TEACHING in individual parishes. This might be the reason why so many are falling away - especially the young.
Wonder if it is because people started to read the word. and started to see flaws in the eucharistic teaching. by the way, did you answer my post concerning this yet?
You're referring to the doctrines we're discussing above.
No. I don't think it's because they started reading the bible and so don't agree with them.
Catholics don't read the bible.
They tend to use "common sense".
The host looks the same,,,,it probably remains the same would be the reasoning.
They believe they could confess to God and not through the priest. This is very interesting to me but when I ask them why,,,I don't get a theological reply....the reply is very "human bound".
God did not change the jews changed,

They rejected their messiah because like so many, they misunderstood the purpose of the law. thinking they were made right by the law. they did not need a savior.
Agreed.
The CC was not the result. The CC literally are identical to the jew.. it is just they follow a different law.
You keep saying that the CC is identical to the Jew.
What do you mean by this?
Because they have a priest?

Actually, historically speaking, I DO believe the CC is the original church...
IOW, the church that was created by men (Peter, Paul, Timothy, etc) which came directly after Jesus ascension.
It was Ignatius of Antioch that first called it the Catholic Church in 107AD.
He might have meant it in the sense of the universal church,,,but, nonetheless, it did retain that name and he WAS referring to the church to which he belonged at the time.

Catholic (from Greek: καθολικός, romanized: katholikos, lit. 'universal') was first used to describe the church in the early 2nd century.[30] The first known use of the phrase "the catholic church" (Greek: καθολικὴ ἐκκλησία, romanized: katholikḕ ekklēsía) occurred in the letter written about 110 AD from Saint Ignatius of Antioch to the Smyrnaeans,[note 2] which read: "Wheresoever the bishop shall appear, there let the people be, even as where Jesus may be, there is the universal [katholike] Church."[31]

In the Catechetical Lectures (c. 350) of Saint Cyril of Jerusalem, the name "Catholic Church" was used to distinguish it from other groups that also called themselves "the church".[31][32] The "Catholic" notion was further stressed in the edict De fide Catolica issued 380 by Theodosius I, the last emperor to rule over both the eastern and the western halves of the Roman Empire, when establishing the state church of the Roman Empire.

source: Catholic Church - Wikipedia



It's just a name EG....just because we may not agree with what it teaches TODAY,,,we can't argue that this is what the original church was called. BTW, Ignatius was taught by John.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Well now, hold on a minute. Assurance of Salvation is a rather important cornerstone for one's faith. I, personally, firmly, believe that Jesus Christ saved me from perdition. I have assurance of that. OSAS can't be handwaved away that easily. Saints need perseverance.
but do saints persevere. or does God persevere in keeping them?
 

Eternally Grateful

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Wave good-bye as you ride that hand basket down the river to hell.
Salvation is secure but that does not mean you cannot sin your way out of it. Salvation and Grace is not a license to sin. Just the idea that you think you can play Christ as a fool is a major sin, then doing it shows the intent of an evil heart. Tell them to pack the barbeque sauce in your casket because
you are under law not under grace my friend.

Your the run running the wrong path. Your trusting your own self and not God to save you.. The jews tried that and lost.. I would not expect you will fair much better
 

Logikos

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wow, A new member who thinks he knows what a person understands about others, and comes in swinging? Were you here before? Off you would come slinging at @GodsGrace like that without even knowing her.

and PS. We can not judge who is saved or not. only God knows. I can judge a gospel. but I can not judge a person. thats Gods job not ours
I can!

It's not even that hard at all, in most cases.

Proverbs 24:25 But those who rebuke the wicked will have delight,​
And a good blessing will come upon them.​
John 7: 24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Matthew 7:5 First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
I Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.​
I Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
 

Logikos

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did he

I do not think they believe it is a lie. I think they honestly believe what they say.
I'm not sure which would be worse!

I have, however, been doing this sort of thing for a very long time and can usually tell when someone is saying something for effect rather than something that they actually believe.

It isn't impossible for me to be wrong but I'd need evidence to retract the accusation.

Actually Peter James and John were the leaders of the church in jerusalem. before Paul was converted and sent to the gentiles
James not even being an Apostle, interestingly, but that's neither here nor there.

What did I say that would make you think that I either didn't know this or that I would disagree with it? (I mean, I think I know but I don't want to guess and so I'm asking you to be explicit so that there's no confusion.)
 

GodsGrace

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I can!

It's not even that hard at all, in most cases.

Proverbs 24:25 But those who rebuke the wicked will have delight,​
And a good blessing will come upon them.​
John 7: 24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”
Matthew 7:5 First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
I Corinthians 2:15 But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. 16 For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.​
I Corinthians 6:2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life?
Wow.
You can judge souls.
Wonderful.

Guess God went on vacation and left YOU in charge.

Read Matthew 7:5 a few times over until you understand it.

Try to have a conversation instead of INSULTING the other member...in this case it was ME.

@Eternally Grateful is a nice person and a normal human being...something I cannot say for every "Christian".

A Christian is known by his behavior...
NOT BY HIS WORDS.

And, as usual, except in this rare case, I will not be posting to you.
My time is rather valuable.
 

Logikos

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Wow.
You can judge souls.
Wonderful.

Guess God went on vacation and left YOU in charge.

Read Matthew 7:5 a few times over until you understand it.

Try to have a conversation instead of INSULTING the other member...in this case it was ME.

@Eternally Grateful is a nice person and a normal human being...something I cannot say for every "Christian".

A Christian is known by his behavior...
NOT BY HIS WORDS.

And, as usual, except in this rare case, I will not be posting to you.
My time is rather valuable.
Don't judge me, hypocrite!