Catholics: What does it mean to pray to Mary?

[PS95]

I like religious beliefs about what is not in the scriptures.

That is the 3rd time I have read this tonight! Two others said they don't need to go by the scriptures. Be careful.

You know that is not what I said. He said the Father is Greater than I.
And then the 50 "My Father" scriptures.....and from there a hundred more that prove the one God formula.

Yes, He said the Father is greater than I. Read Phil 2. He was not here seeking His own glory. He humbled Himself and BECAME a servant.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You know that is not what I said. He said the Father is Greater than I.
And then the 50 "My Father" scriptures.....and from there a hundred more that prove the one God formula.

You're not differentiating between Jesus as God and Jesus as man and that is causing you to be confused. You've been shown scriptures that teach that He is God and created all things and you just ignore them. He is both fully God and fully man at the same time and is not "a God".

 

[Grailhunter]

You're not differentiating between Jesus as God and Jesus as man and that is causing you to be confused.

You are confused because you do not read the Bible.
Your Bible has red letters when Yeshua speaks.....where is He God and where is He man?

Again.....do not make me repeat myself.....I have already said I know the scriptures and believe them....I am just saying it is not as simple as you think.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are confused because you do not read the Bible.

Well, if you're going to just make up lies, then I guess the discussion is over. I, of course, have read the Bible plenty, so that was a ridiculous statement. This is not about who has read the Bible more. That does not determine how well you know what the Bible teaches. The Pharisees read the Bible a lot and didn't understand any of it that related to the Messiah.

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, if you're going to just make up lies, then I guess the discussion is over. I, of course, have read the Bible plenty, so that was a ridiculous statement. This is not about who has read the Bible more. That does not determine how well you know what the Bible teaches. The Pharisees read the Bible a lot and didn't understand any of it that related to the Messiah.

If you read the Bible you would know better. Over a hundred scriptures prove the one God formula wrong, maybe a hundred and fifty.......guess you missed them. So you can start producing the three God in one scriptures.

 

[Zao is life]

I have over a hundred scriptures in Christ own words that prove the one God formula wrong
And as far as the pre-existing Christ....I know what the scriptures say and it is apparently not that simple because Yeshua does not show up in the Old Testament.

No one needs hundreds of scriptures re-worded by someone who corrupts the scriptures to suit his own agenda. We only need a few. Here are a few:

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

FACT: Without God, there is no life [zoe]. Life itself exists IN God and only because of God.

"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring." (Acts 17:28).

FACT: The Logos of God and the Spirit of God is the Logos and the Spirit of the Father, and He is ONE YHVH.

"The universe was created by the Logos of God, and every part of it by the Spirit of His mouth." (Psalm 33:6).
"In the Logos was life [zoe] and the life is the light of men." (John 1:4).
"And the Logos became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we (John and his companions) beheld his glory (the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.)" (John 1:14).

They named Him Jesus.

"There is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we IN HIM; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we BY him." (1 Corinthians 8:6).

But because God is a Spirit, these things are spiritually understood by God's Holy Spirit's enlightenment.

 

[Berean]

No, scripture says that He is God, not "a God". What religion are you affiliated with? Christianity teaches that Jesus is God.

Scriptures also teach Satan is God

 

[Grailhunter]

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. 1 Corinthians 8:6

Notice the "and" in that sentence...

 

[Zao is life]

Notice the "and" in that sentence...

The Lord is the Man Jesus Christ, who is God in human form. One God and one Lord.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Scriptures also teach Satan is God
View attachment 62109

What is your point? He's not the God who created all things. But, Jesus is.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Lord is the Man Jesus Christ, who is God in human form. One God and one Lord.

Yahweh's is only begotten Son. The understanding that the Messiah is the Son of God is important and clear.
My Father in Heaven.....My Father is greater than I. And when Yahweh showed up at Yeshua's baptism He did not say....This is Me of whom I am well pleased.
But then again a lot of people like a little hocus pocus in their religion.
The concept of one god with three aspects in strictly pagan.
Got any more scriptures.

 

[PS95]

What is your point? He's not the God who created all things. But, Jesus is.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Colossians 1:15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Expect the some of the same absurd arguments that you get from Jws.
Berean is one of the bible students of JW founder Charles Taze Russell.
bible students did not go along with the next president when Russell died. Jws did.
So they both have a lot of the same twisted gobbily gook.

 

[Zao is life]

Scriptures also teach Satan is God
View attachment 62109

Teachers of false doctrine always quote half of a verse, and never ever give any other part of scripture that helps to interpret it correctly (as you have just done above).

The same verse that says that Satan is the god of this age (aion) also says that Christ is the image of God:

In whom the god of this age [aion] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 2 Corinthians 4:4

And just as 2 Corinthians 4:4 juxtaposes that god of this age with Christ who is the image of God, Hebrews 2-3 states that Christ is the brightness of God's glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, and that God made the worlds by Him.

Colossians 1:16-17 says that by Christ "all things were created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." and John 1:3-4 says that all things were made by Christ, "and without him was not any thing made that was made." and that (eternal) life was in Him and is the light of men.
​

He is before all things and all things were created by Him.

So life [zoe - life itself] was in the Word by whom all things were created and who became flesh (John 1:4) and Jesus told us in John 5:26 that only God has life in Himself.

He also said that God has given to the Son (Jesus the Man- the Word who became flesh) - to have life in Himself.

Created human beings - created any type of beings - do not have life in ourselves / themselves. Our life is in Christ who alone has life in Himself. He is God, who alone has life in Himself.

Jesus called Satan "the prince of this world" (John 14:30) and says that he has been judged (John 16:11).
Paul calls that same god of this age "the prince of the power of the air who works in the sons of disobedience" in Ephesians 2:2

- but Acts 5:31 calls Jesus the one "whom God has exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins."

So Jesus is called a Prince, and Satan is called a prince. Jesus is called God in John 1:1, and Satan is called "the god of this age" in 2 Cor 4:4.

I don't know what you are trying to prove with the above post, but it smacks of trying to prove that Jesus is not God - and you did so only by quoting half a verse of scripture, and failing to quote other scriptures needed to interpret the verse correctly.

Which is typical of false teachers. I thought the name "Berean" was above that?​

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Expect the some of the same absurd arguments that you get from Jws.
Berean is one of the bible students of JW founder Charles Taze Russell.
bible students did not go along with the next president when Russell died. Jws did.
So they both have a lot of the same twisted gobbily gook.

That explains a lot. I was wondering what his religion is. Notice how ridiculous his argument was. Obviously, the context of what was being discussed was in relation to the God who created all things, but he interjected with the irrelevant point that Satan is also a god. We're not talking about a god here, we're talking about the God who created all things.

 

[PS95]

Yahweh's is only begotten Son. The understanding that the Messiah is the Son of God is important and clear.
My Father in Heaven.....My Father is greater than I. And when Yahweh showed up at Yeshua's baptism He did not say....This is Me of whom I am well pleased.
But then again a lot of people like a little hocus pocus in their religion.
The concept of one god with three aspects in strictly pagan.
Got any more scriptures.

This post is really ridiculous, GH. I've already shown you that Jesus humbled himself and became a servant.
Of course He did not say.. Hey I am God. How long do you think the Jews would have let Him live? lol
YOU MUST SEEK HIM TO FIND HIM- with all of your heart.
You should not be obstinate or self righteous about it. Humble yourself and seek.
Pray pray pray about it. I have been in your shoes.

 

[Zao is life]

Yahweh's is only begotten Son. The understanding that the Messiah is the Son of God is important and clear.
My Father in Heaven.....My Father is greater than I. And when Yahweh showed up at Yeshua's baptism He did not say....This is Me of whom I am well pleased.
But then again a lot of people like a little hocus pocus in their religion.
The concept of one god with three aspects in strictly pagan.
Got any more scriptures.

In the Old Testament we are told that God created all things by His Word and by the Spirit of His mouth. (Psalm 33:6).

Who created all things?

In the Old Testament God says that His Word, which goes out of His mouth, shall not return to Him void, but it shall accomplish what He pleases, and it shall certainly do what He sent it to do. (Isaiah 55:10-11).

Is the Word doing the will of God?

Who is greater, the one who sends His Word out, or the Word who is sent out?

Who created all things? God? or some other God?

 

[PS95]

That explains a lot. I was wondering what his religion is. Notice how ridiculous his argument was. Obviously, the context of what was being discussed was in relation to the God who created all things, but he interjected with the irrelevant point that Satan is also a god. We're not talking about a god here, we're talking about the God who created all things.

Yes. I know. They are blind and twisted. Been there. I was raised in that poison of Jws.
This is the very reason I keep asking that Jws be restricted to non- Christian forums here like Matthias is. He is not even as bad as these people.
Here we have grail hunter questioning his/her faith while we have this poison being spewed.
Moderators here think that division is from Jesus. Look at their SOF .
NOT division amongst believers!! The division that Jesus spoke of was how Jews would reject their own family when they accepted Him. It still happens today not only among Jews, but Jw family has shunned me for 26 yrs for coming to Christ. That is what Jesus was speaking of.

What's funny is -- Jws have forums- they wont let you or me on there at ALL. You can't even read it.

 

[PS95]

Notice the "and" in that sentence...

Oh come on. Is the Father called, Lord? Yes- Jesus called Him Lord. He is also called Lord in Revelation and elsewhere. I am not talking about the tetragrammaton-. Lord- lower case. So, if we say Jesus is not God because these are specific titles that are not interchangeable then we must apply that rule evenly. It does not work. The Father calls the Son -God- in Hebrews. The son calls the Father , Lord.
All that Paul is saying is THIS is how we identify them when speaking of them.. TO US. this way you know who they are speaking about- father or Son.

luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do

if u want the other verses I will give them to you. I told you I have been there! Keep the hope! keep the faith. It is true.
In a MILLION years I never thought I would say that. I was taught that it was pure evil and I fully believed that. THEY LIE.
I prayed!! I cried. I prayed some more. I tore thru 40 bibles. and the Greek and you name it I did it.

 

[Grailhunter]

This post is really ridiculous, GH. I've already shown you that Jesus humbled himself and became a servant.
Of course He did not say.. Hey I am God. How long do you think the Jews would have let Him live? lol
YOU MUST SEEK HIM TO FIND HIM- with all of your heart.
You should not be obstinate or self righteous about it. Humble yourself and seek.
Pray pray pray about it. I have been in your shoes.

LOL You are right about telling the Jews about being a God because they believed the Messian would be a human king warlord. But the Apostles knew.
But that is not the point.....The point is...when do you think He became a God? Human and God.
And were are your scriptures on the three in one God scriptures?

 

[Grailhunter]

Oh come on. Is the Father called, Lord? Yes- Jesus called Him Lord. He is also called Lord in Revelation and elsewhere. I am not talking about the tetragrammaton-. Lord- lower case. So, if we say Jesus is not God because these are specific titles that are not interchangeable then we must apply that rule evenly. It does not work. The Father calls the Son -God- in Hebrews. The son calls the Father , Lord.
All that Paul is saying is THIS is how we identify them when speaking of them.. TO US. this way you know who they are speaking about- father or Son.

luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do

if u want the other verses I will give them to you. I told you I have been there! Keep the hope! keep the faith. It is true.
In a MILLION years I never thought I would say that. I was taught that it was pure evil and I fully believed that. THEY LIE.
I prayed!! I cried. I prayed some more. I tore thru 40 bibles. and the Greek and you name it I did it.

Keep the scriptures coming....you will learn something.
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” John 20:17