The Four Stages of Mankind's Redemption:

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Ronald Nolette

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You believe Darby&Scofield modernist revisionist dispensational delusionism.

Toss it into the dumpster. :laughing:
Actually I don't but you have been too indoctrinated in your hatred of all things dispensational to see otherwise.

But I could say you are a faithful acolyte of Roman Catholicism for the bulk of your hermeneutical understanding was born and grown in Catholicism.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Wrong. You accept what appears in the English without bothering to learn what the original authors worte in the tenses, moods, voices etc. If you bothered you would know better.
I have bothered and I showed you and you ignore it. So, tell me what tense "WAS ESTABLISHED" is in?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
 

covenantee

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Actually I don't but you have been too indoctrinated in your hatred of all things dispensational to see otherwise.

But I could say you are a faithful acolyte of Roman Catholicism for the bulk of your hermeneutical understanding was born and grown in Catholicism.
Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, et al, pre-dated Roman Catholicism by well over a century. You lose.

And in reality the acolyte is yourself, because the futurism of your dispensational futurism was fabricated by Jesuit Francisco Ribera in the counter-Reformation of the apostate papacy. You lose again.

Got any more gems for us? :laughing:
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, et al, pre-dated Roman Catholicism by well over a century. You lose.

And in reality the acolyte is yourself, because the futurism of your dispensational futurism was fabricated by Jesuit Francisco Ribera in the counter-Reformation of the apostate papacy. You lose again.

Got any more gems for us? :laughing:
He just keeps losing. Why he does he never tire of it?
 
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Ronald Nolette

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I have bothered and I showed you and you ignore it. So, tell me what tense "WAS ESTABLISHED" is in?

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Once again your reading skills fail you. It is not the covenant but the better promises that the covenant is founded on. The better promise is the blood of Jesus that establishes the covenant.

But I think why we have a problem communicating. As you said I look at Scriptures and you accused me of being "woodenly literal". IN that unless I see language that tells me it is not to be taken literally, I take it literally. So I realize I have been woodenly literal in looking at what you write instead of spiritually discerning what you really mean.

So I will ask the Holy Spirit for discernemtn of the words you write so that I can see past what you write to ascertain what you mean.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, et al, pre-dated Roman Catholicism by well over a century. You lose.

And in reality the acolyte is yourself, because the futurism of your dispensational futurism was fabricated by Jesuit Francisco Ribera in the counter-Reformation of the apostate papacy. You lose again.

Got any more gems for us? :laughing:
Well if any of your 1700 years of believer can point to a time or place and say here is where the covenant as written was fulfilled I am all ears. But the cites you made just say the same as you- the New Covenant is fulfilled. Here are the terms of the covenant, I am still waiting for you to point to when and where theyy were fulfilled as written:

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-13

King James Version

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Can Trypho, I raneus, Justin Martyr, and 1700 years of RCC covenant theology point to a time,place or action and say "This shows god fufllied the covenant He declared?

Got any of them gems?
 

covenantee

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Well if any of your 1700 years of believer can point to a time or place and say here is where the covenant as written was fulfilled I am all ears. But the cites you made just say the same as you- the New Covenant is fulfilled. Here are the terms of the covenant, I am still waiting for you to point to when and where theyy were fulfilled as written:

Jeremiah 31:31-37​

King James Version​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:8-13​

King James Version​

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Can Trypho, I raneus, Justin Martyr, and 1700 years of RCC covenant theology point to a time,place or action and say "This shows god fufllied the covenant He declared?

Got any of them gems?
The only thing you know about the RCC is its fabricated futurized fantasy antichrist of dispensationalism's delusions.

Got any example of any other what you call unfulfilled covenant in Scripture, half of which is dangling for over 2,000 years? :laughing:

You're also awful quiet about post 217. What's the problem?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Once again your reading skills fail you. It is not the covenant but the better promises that the covenant is founded on.
LOL. You can't have any worse reading skills than that, so it is your reading skills that have failed. As if the better promises that the covenant is found on aren't part of the new covenant itself? LOL. You will go to any length to twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. That is very clear to me.

The better promise is the blood of Jesus that establishes the covenant.
Hello? The blood of Jesus was shed long ago. So, how can you think that the new covenant is not established yet? Your reading skills have failed you terribly.

But I think why we have a problem communicating. As you said I look at Scriptures and you accused me of being "woodenly literal". IN that unless I see language that tells me it is not to be taken literally, I take it literally.
Except for Hebrews 8:6-7 which tells us that the new covenant was established long ago. You don't take that literally.

So I realize I have been woodenly literal in looking at what you write instead of spiritually discerning what you really mean.

So I will ask the Holy Spirit for discernemtn of the words you write so that I can see past what you write to ascertain what you mean.
Good! Maybe you will finally understand. But, don't doubt when you ask (James 1:5-7).
 
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Ronald Nolette

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The only thing you know about the RCC is its fabricated futurized fantasy antichrist of dispensationalism's delusions.

Got any example of any other what you call unfulfilled covenant in Scripture, half of which is dangling for over 2,000 years? :laughing:

You're also awful quiet about post 217. What's the problem?
You suck at pretending to know people. I was a catholic for 20 years and had gone to catholic grammar, high and a summer at seminary. I think my knowledge of Catholicism far outweighs your.

Answered 217- you should have read it.

Before I answer your silly question, answer mine I already asked- show me one of your 1700 years of orthodoxy that points to when and how the new Covenant as written was fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Try answering insterad of vomiting oout your false knowledge of me and your silly ad-hominems
 

covenantee

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You suck at pretending to know people. I was a catholic for 20 years and had gone to catholic grammar, high and a summer at seminary. I think my knowledge of Catholicism far outweighs your.
So you should be able to tell us all about Francisco Ribera. :laughing:
Answered 217- you should have read it.
You didn't, but that's no surprise, as you have no Scriptural rebuttal for it.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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You suck at pretending to know people. I was a catholic for 20 years and had gone to catholic grammar, high and a summer at seminary. I think my knowledge of Catholicism far outweighs your.
What a silly thing to say. Have you ever heard of the Internet? You know, it's the things that allows for us to be talking to each other. It has a lot of information on it. Not sure if you were aware. And that includes information on Catholicism, including from Catholics themselves. So, it's just nothing short of ludicrous to think that someone can't know Catholicism just as much as you do just because they were never Catholic.
 
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Ronald Nolette

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LOL. You can't have any worse reading skills than that, so it is your reading skills that have failed. As if the better promises that the covenant is found on aren't part of the new covenant itself? LOL. You will go to any length to twist scripture to make it say what you want it to say. That is very clear to me.
clear like muddy water. I am still waiting for you to point to a time in history when the covenant went into effect.

Thats right I forgot, god did not mean what He inspired the writers to write.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Hello? The blood of Jesus was shed long ago. So, how can you think that the new covenant is not established yet? Your reading skills have failed you terribly.
Well I am waiting for you to tell me what Jer. 31:31-37 means as you say it does not mean what is written. I am also praying to discern what you mean as you do things not by natural reading and comprehension but spiritual meanings.
 

Ronald Nolette

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So you should be able to tell us all about Francisco Ribera. :laughing:

You didn't, but that's no surprise, as you have no Scriptural rebuttal for it.
Don't know a Francisco Ribera. I know of a former priest named Francisco Rivera of chick tract fame who is a bitter man.

Yes I did, but you just don't like th eanswer.

Still waiting for you to show me from history and one of the orthodox folk to where the covenant was fulfilled.

Jeremiah 31:31-37

King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
35 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the Lord; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the Lord.

Hebrews 8:6-13

King James Version

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

or are you like spiritual Israelite who believes God does not mean whatr He inspired the writers to write and we have to search for some hidden meanings?
 

Ronald Nolette

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What a silly thing to say. Have you ever heard of the Internet? You know, it's the things that allows for us to be talking to each other. It has a lot of information on it. Not sure if you were aware. And that includes information on Catholicism, including from Catholics themselves. So, it's just nothing short of ludicrous to think that someone can't know Catholicism just as much as you do just because they were never Catholic.
Well as you accused me of not knowing Catholicism and I said you suck at knowing me this answer is asinine! I never implied you didn't know Catholicism, I was answering your accusation of me not knowing much.
 

covenantee

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Don't know a Francisco Ribera.
You don't know the father of the futurism that deceives you? For shame. :laughing:
Yes I did, but you just don't like th eanswer.
You didn't because there's no rebuttal of Christ the Divine Intercessory Mediator of His Completely Fulfilled New Covenant.

Not of your dangling semi-covenant more than 2,000 years old and counting interminably.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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clear like muddy water. I am still waiting for you to point to a time in history when the covenant went into effect.
You must not be reading my posts. It was the point in time when Jesus died on the cross. Is there anything hard to understand about this?

You clearly don't even know what the veil of the temple tearing in two represented. It represented the first/old covenant being made obsolete with the better second/new covenant of Christ's shed blood being put into effect and replacing the old covenant (Hebrews 8:6-7).

Thats right I forgot, god did not mean what He inspired the writers to write.
That is apparently what you think about Hebrews 8 to 10. You definitely seem to have all of those verses except for Hebrews 8:8-12 missing from your Bible.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Well as you accused me of not knowing Catholicism
Your reading comprehension skills are utterly horrible. I said no such thing. What I actually did say is that a person doesn't have to be a Catholic to know what Catholicism is about.

and I said you suck at knowing me this answer is asinine!
Have you lost your mind? You're speaking complete gibberish.

I never implied you didn't know Catholicism, I was answering your accusation of me not knowing much.
Give me quotes because I don't know what you're talking about. What I recall without looking it up right now is that you said you knew Catholicism far better than covenantee does and your evidence for that was that you used to be a Catholic for 20 years. I responded and said you don't have to be a Catholic to understand Catholicism because there is a lot of information available on the Internet about it, including from Catholics themselves.

How did you get from any of this that I accused you of "not knowing much"? I said no such thing. I'm just saying that others can learn as much as you by reading the information about Catholicism on the Internet.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Well I am waiting for you to tell me what Jer. 31:31-37 means as you say it does not mean what is written. I am also praying to discern what you mean as you do things not by natural reading and comprehension but spiritual meanings.
Why should I bother when you don't accept it when I show you what Hebrews 8:6-7 means? You think "was established" means "will be established". How can I reason with such a person as you? Seems impossible.

Tell me, when Joel 2:28 says that the Holy Spirit would be poured out on all people is it talking about literally all people? That is what is written.

Joel 2:28 “And afterward, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your old men will dream dreams, your young men will see visions.