Mega-Church Vs Small-Church

[TechWord]

I get the heart behind wanting to reach as many people as possible, and yes, Jesus did command us to go into all the world and preach the gospel (Mark 16:15). But He didn’t stop there, He told us to make disciples, teaching them to obey all that He commanded (Matthew 28:19–20). That means our goal isn’t just getting people to say they believe in Jesus, but helping them actually follow Him.

One of the biggest problems we’re seeing today is the creation of false converts. When the gospel gets watered down or reduced to just “say this prayer and you’re saved,” people may respond emotionally or out of pressure, but without repentance, there’s no real salvation. Jesus warned that many will say “Lord, Lord” and still be cast out because they never truly knew Him (Matthew 7:21–23). That should sober us. Getting large numbers means nothing if those people haven’t truly come to Christ.

Mass evangelism can be good when the message is faithful, but not when it sacrifices truth for the sake of numbers. Paul didn’t just count responses, he looked for lasting fruit (Colossians 1:10). The early church grew because they were rooted in solid teaching, not just emotional experiences (Acts 2:41–42).

So yes, let’s reach as many people as we can, but let’s do it the way Scripture says, by preaching the full gospel, calling for repentance, and making real disciples. That’s how lives are truly changed, and that’s what honors the Lord.

True, Jesus wants everyone to be taught all that God commanded, but He does not say, your salvation will be canceled, if you are not taught, all that God commanded.
The gospel of salvation (Romans 10:9-10) is very simple and not complicated, and it is hard to simplify or water down a message, that is already simple and straightforward. Many churches may not get other things right, but they do get salvation right.
When Jesus talks about people, not knowing Him, He is not talking about those who acknowledge and accept Him, as Lord and Savior, because once saved, that cannot be undone, but He is referring to people who join a church or denomination, without acknowledging Jesus as Lord & Savior and believe that they are saved by simplly being part of a Church. Being born again or salvation is knowing Jesus and Jesus knowing you.
And again, the Bible does not say, that if you have received salvation, but are not fortunate enough to get solid teaching, then your salvation can be canceled or expire.
It would be great, if everyone after receiving salvation, was taught all that God commanded and got solid teaching, but that may not happen for everyone, while everyone can easily experience salvation.

 

[bdavidc]

True, Jesus wants everyone to be taught all that God commanded, but He does not say, your salvation will be canceled, if you are not taught, all that God commanded.
The gospel of salvation (Romans 10:9-10) is very simple and not complicated, and it is hard to simplify or water down a message, that is already simple and straightforward. Many churches may not get other things right, but they do get salvation right.
When Jesus talks about people, not knowing Him, He is not talking about those who acknowledge and accept Him, as Lord and Savior, because once saved, that cannot be undone, but He is referring to people who join a church or denomination, without acknowledging Jesus as Lord & Savior and believe that they are saved by simplly being part of a Church. Being born again or salvation is knowing Jesus and Jesus knowing you.
And again, the Bible does not say, that if you have received salvation, but are not fortunate enough to get solid teaching, then your salvation can be canceled or expire.
It would be great, if everyone after receiving salvation, was taught all that God commanded and got solid teaching, but that may not happen for everyone, while everyone can easily experience salvation.

That sounds reasonable on the surface, but it doesn’t match what the Bible actually teaches. Scripture is clear, real salvation always produces a changed heart and a changed life. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21–23 that “many” will call Him “Lord, Lord,” but He will respond, “I never knew you.” He didn’t say He used to know them. He said He never knew them. These people said the right words, but they lived in sin and never truly followed Him. That’s a false convert, not someone who lost their salvation because they never had it to begin with. Someone who talks like a Christian but was never actually born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17 says that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. That means you won’t keep living the same way after being saved. Romans 6:1, 2 makes it clear, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” True salvation doesn’t just forgive you, it transforms you. You’ll have new desires, new priorities, and a new direction. You won’t be perfect, but you also won’t be comfortable staying in sin. You’ll want to grow, follow Jesus, and understand the Bible. 1 Peter 2:2 says new believers “desire the sincere milk of the word.” If there’s no desire for God’s Word, no conviction of sin, and no change, then no, that person isn’t saved.

This has nothing to do with whether someone got good teaching afterward. Good teaching helps, but it doesn’t cause salvation. Salvation causes the hunger to grow in Christ. Ezekiel 36:26, 27 says that when God saves someone, He gives them a new heart and puts His Spirit within them. That’s what drives a person to seek the truth. Whether by reading the Bible alone or finding a group to study with, a saved person will seek the things of God. If someone has no interest in the Bible, no desire to obey, and just keeps living like before, then they are still lost.

This is exactly what’s happening in many churches today. They are producing people who say Christian things but were never truly converted. Why? Because they’re preaching a man-centered gospel. Instead of calling people to repent and follow Jesus, they tell people to “invite Jesus into their heart” without ever explaining sin, judgment, and the cross. That’s not the gospel, it’s a trap. Jesus said in Matthew 7:13, 14, “Enter ye in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

The narrow way isn’t found through a feel-good message or church membership. It’s found by turning from sin and trusting in Jesus alone. The modern habit of making the gospel easy and comfortable has caused massive confusion. People think they’re saved because they went to church or prayed a prayer, but if their heart hasn’t changed, they’re still on the broad road. The Bible says, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). You don’t need a perfect church or a perfect teacher to know Christ. But if you’re truly saved, it will show. You will change. If there’s no change, there was no salvation. That’s what Scripture teaches, plain and simple.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

He does not say, your salvation will be canceled, if you are not taught, all that God commanded.

But those that are not taught as you put it are still responsible for walking with the Lord seeing they have access to God's Word and Jesus has provided access to THE Teacher, the Holy Spirit.

Sp of they continue living in sin walking after the flesh their salvation is definitely be cancelled.

This also hold true for those who have been taught error by attending church as most churches not teach error that even if you continue living in sin it';s all good your salvation won't be cancelled. That's actually a lie.

 

[TechWord]

That sounds reasonable on the surface, but it doesn’t match what the Bible actually teaches. Scripture is clear, real salvation always produces a changed heart and a changed life. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21–23 that “many” will call Him “Lord, Lord,” but He will respond, “I never knew you.” He didn’t say He used to know them. He said He never knew them. These people said the right words, but they lived in sin and never truly followed Him. That’s a false convert, not someone who lost their salvation because they never had it to begin with. Someone who talks like a Christian but was never actually born again.

2 Corinthians 5:17 says that if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature. That means you won’t keep living the same way after being saved. Romans 6:1, 2 makes it clear, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” True salvation doesn’t just forgive you, it transforms you. You’ll have new desires, new priorities, and a new direction. You won’t be perfect, but you also won’t be comfortable staying in sin. You’ll want to grow, follow Jesus, and understand the Bible. 1 Peter 2:2 says new believers “desire the sincere milk of the word.” If there’s no desire for God’s Word, no conviction of sin, and no change, then no, that person isn’t saved.

This has nothing to do with whether someone got good teaching afterward. Good teaching helps, but it doesn’t cause salvation. Salvation causes the hunger to grow in Christ. Ezekiel 36:26, 27 says that when God saves someone, He gives them a new heart and puts His Spirit within them. That’s what drives a person to seek the truth. Whether by reading the Bible alone or finding a group to study with, a saved person will seek the things of God. If someone has no interest in the Bible, no desire to obey, and just keeps living like before, then they are still lost.

This is exactly what’s happening in many churches today. They are producing people who say Christian things but were never truly converted. Why? Because they’re preaching a man-centered gospel. Instead of calling people to repent and follow Jesus, they tell people to “invite Jesus into their heart” without ever explaining sin, judgment, and the cross. That’s not the gospel, it’s a trap. Jesus said in Matthew 7:13, 14, “Enter ye in at the strait gate, for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

The narrow way isn’t found through a feel-good message or church membership. It’s found by turning from sin and trusting in Jesus alone. The modern habit of making the gospel easy and comfortable has caused massive confusion. People think they’re saved because they went to church or prayed a prayer, but if their heart hasn’t changed, they’re still on the broad road. The Bible says, “Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith” (2 Corinthians 13:5). You don’t need a perfect church or a perfect teacher to know Christ. But if you’re truly saved, it will show. You will change. If there’s no change, there was no salvation. That’s what Scripture teaches, plain and simple.

The points you have raised, have already been addressed in my previous post on this thread. It wouldn’t serve any purpose to repeat myself? And no one said, good teaching causes salvation.

 

[TechWord]

But those that are not taught as you put it are still responsible for walking with the Lord seeing they have access to God's Word and Jesus has provided access to THE Teacher, the Holy Spirit.

Sp of they continue living in sin walking after the flesh their salvation is definitely be cancelled.

This also hold true for those who have been taught error by attending church as most churches not teach error that even if you continue living in sin it';s all good your salvation won't be cancelled. That's actually a lie.

It would be nice, if you could quote a scripture that says a born again Christian can lose his salvation, if he lives in sin?

 

[rockytopva]

The Two Trumpets...

1. The Spirit (time in worship)
2. The Word (time in the word)

To me the main thing about a good church service, regardless of the church, is the time in Worship... And the time in the Word. Put those two together and you have got a fine church service!

Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. - Numbers 10:2

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

It would be nice, if you could quote a scripture that says a born again Christian can lose his salvation, if he lives in sin?

Top reasons why OSAS is not true

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

1 Peter 1:14-17
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and these other scriptures wouldn't even be in God's Word!

 

[Berean]

So, I'll wait to attend then because right now he's just a one man show which is not really a church

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” - Matthew 18:20
That's the church, not some guy in a robe or wearing a collar, not in some fancy building with a steeple or a cross on the door, but the people. Individuals are the church.

Most churches teach false doctrine and they will indoctrinate new converts into their cults

Yeah, like hellfire and brimstone

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

"For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.” - Matthew 18:20
That's the church, not some guy in a robe or wearing a collar, not in some fancy building with a steeple or a cross on the door, but the people. Individuals are the church.

So it's all good to ignore the New Testament on this issue? I don't think so.

A few people gathering in the Name of the Lord can be viewed as fellowship or even a bible study.

But it's not a church where one guy is king over the group. No, no. That's not how a body of believers works.

 

[TechWord]

Top reasons why OSAS is not true

Romans 11:21,22
For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

1 John 1:6
If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

Romans 8:13
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(NOT in our own strength - see Philippians 4:13)

1 Peter 1:14-17
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

John 15:2
Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Matthew 7:16-21
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

John 8:35
And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.

James 5:19,20
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.

Hebrews 10:28-31
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Only those led by the Spirit are the sons of God (Romans 8:14)

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

If OSAS was actually true, the Lord wouldn't be saying what He says in 2 Corinthians 13:5 and these other scriptures wouldn't even be in God's Word!

The scriptures you have quoted are not talking about a born again Christian losing their salvation. Let me illustrate, if you have children, they may do things that are wrong and you may punish them, in different ways and sometimes their bad behavior may have catastrophic or deadly consequences, but they are still your children.
Whatever your children do, does not change the fact that you are their parent. Similarly, born again Christians may go astray and face severe consequences, including early death, but their status as children of God does not change.

 

[bdavidc]

The points you have raised, have already been addressed in my previous post on this thread. It wouldn’t serve any purpose to repeat myself? And no one said, good teaching causes salvation.

This isn’t about repeating ourselves it’s about whether what you’re saying lines up with the Bible. Jesus said many will call Him Lord but still be cast out because they lived in sin (Matthew 7:21–23). That means real salvation always leads to real change. If someone claims to know Christ but keeps living the same way with no desire for truth, no conviction, and no obedience, then according to Scripture, they were never saved (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 1:16, 2 Corinthians 13:5). Good teaching doesn’t save you. Being born again does, and it shows. If there’s no change, there was no salvation. That’s not my opinion, that’s what God says.

 

[bdavidc]

It would be nice, if you could quote a scripture that says a born again Christian can lose his salvation, if he lives in sin?

You’re asking the wrong question. The Bible doesn’t say a truly born-again believer can lose salvation by living in sin. What it does say is that if someone claims to be saved but continues in sin without repentance, then they were never truly born again to begin with. 1 John 2:19 makes that clear: “They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us.” A real believer doesn’t walk away from Christ and stay there. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21–23 that many will say “Lord, Lord,” but He will say, “I never knew you,” not “I knew you and then you fell away.” That shows they were never saved. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.” Romans 6:1–2 says we don’t continue in sin so grace may abound. True salvation leads to a changed life. If there’s no change, no conviction, and no desire to follow Christ, then that person isn’t saved, no matter what words they said. Titus 1:16 warns of people who “profess that they know God, but in works they deny him.” So no, you can’t lose salvation, when you never had it to begin with. That’s the biblical truth.

You’re telling people who were never truly saved that it’s okay to live in sin, as if that’s normal for a believer. All that does is lock them onto the broad road that leads to hell. You’ve convinced them they’re saved when they’re not, and that kind of deception has eternal consequences. This is deception and it will be on your hands.

Can you tell me why you want to do this?

 

[bdavidc]

The scriptures you have quoted are not talking about a born again Christian losing their salvation. Let me illustrate, if you have children, they may do things that are wrong and you may punish them, in different ways and sometimes their bad behavior may have catastrophic or deadly consequences, but they are still your children.
Whatever your children do, does not change the fact that you are their parent. Similarly, born again Christians may go astray and face severe consequences, including early death, but their status as children of God does not change.

Your example sounds nice, but it doesn’t match what the Bible actually says. You’re acting like anyone who says they’re a child of God stays saved no matter what they do, but Scripture says the exact opposite. 1 John 3:8 says, “He that committeth sin is of the devil,” and verse 9 says someone who is truly born of God doesn’t keep on sinning, they just mouth the words but were never saved. That doesn’t mean a truly born-again person never mess up, but it does mean they won’t stay there. If someone lives in sin with no repentance, they were never saved in the first place.

Jesus didn’t say a bad tree stays in the garden, He said it gets cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:19). And Hebrews 12 says if someone doesn’t get disciplined by God, they’re not His child at all (Hebrews 12:8). You’re confusing discipline with license. The Bible doesn’t say a real Christian can live like the world and still go to heaven. It says to examine yourself to see if you’re really in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). If someone has no conviction, no change, and no desire for God, they’re not saved. Telling them otherwise is dangerous. You’re giving false assurance, and that leads people straight to hell.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I belong to a mega-church, but I am always amazed by the number of people, including fellow Christians, who hold very strong negative opinions about every mega-church, without any knowledge of how any of those individual churches are run or operated.
No church is perfect and no church is good or bad , because of it’s size. Mega-churches, because of their large size tend to be well-known, therefore any misdeeds in them, real or imagined, spread far and wide, as opposed to a small-church, that is less known. The wrong things can happen in any size church, but the bigger you are , the more and bigger the publicity.

The number of those who ate was five thousand men, besides women and children - Matthew 14:21

The preceding scripture, only gives us the number of men, who were the heads of households, but if we add the men plus women and children, the number would be over ten thousand people. This was many centuries ago, when the world population was much smaller and yet Jesus preached to mega-crowds, which today would equal a mega-church.

Now those who ate were four thousand men, besides women and children - Matthew 15:38

Here again, the number of men plus women and children, would be nearly or over ten thousand people. Jesus preached to mega-church size crowds, many centuries ago. So, if Jesus had mega-crowds, why would it be wrong to have mega-churches today, when the world population is much bigger?
Furthermore, we have mega this and mega that, in our time, like mega-stores or mega-farms, because small stores or small farms can no longer, meet the needs of a growing population. The same is true of churches, small churches, in some cases, can no longer meet the needs of a growing population, regardless of any shortcomings that they may have or not have.

I'm not against a large model if the preaching were strong, but in the vast majority of mega-church services I've either seen, heard or attended, that has not been the case. Sometimes it has been so nauseatingly watered down that I could not tolerate being there.

If I may, who is the preacher in your mega-church? If you don't wish to say, then maybe give me some examples of the kinds of messages that are preached.

 

[TechWord]

This isn’t about repeating ourselves it’s about whether what you’re saying lines up with the Bible. Jesus said many will call Him Lord but still be cast out because they lived in sin (Matthew 7:21–23). That means real salvation always leads to real change. If someone claims to know Christ but keeps living the same way with no desire for truth, no conviction, and no obedience, then according to Scripture, they were never saved (2 Corinthians 5:17, Titus 1:16, 2 Corinthians 13:5). Good teaching doesn’t save you. Being born again does, and it shows. If there’s no change, there was no salvation. That’s not my opinion, that’s what God says.

There is no debate, that when you are saved or receive salvation, you are regenerated or changed, but thereafter, how much spiritual growth you experience, depends on whether you find the right place, people or literature to help you grow. Therefore, the improvements in born again Christians will vary from person to person.

 

[TechWord]

I'm not against a large model if the preaching were strong, but in the vast majority of mega-church services I've either seen, heard or attended, that has not been the case. Sometimes it has been so nauseatingly watered down that I could not tolerate being there.

If I may, who is the preacher in your mega-church? If you don't wish to say, then maybe give me some examples of the kinds of messages that are preached.

Our mega-church preaches the full gospel, which starts with (Romans 10:9-10) and ( Acts 1:8).

 

[TechWord]

Your example sounds nice, but it doesn’t match what the Bible actually says. You’re acting like anyone who says they’re a child of God stays saved no matter what they do, but Scripture says the exact opposite. 1 John 3:8 says, “He that committeth sin is of the devil,” and verse 9 says someone who is truly born of God doesn’t keep on sinning, they just mouth the words but were never saved. That doesn’t mean a truly born-again person never mess up, but it does mean they won’t stay there. If someone lives in sin with no repentance, they were never saved in the first place.

Jesus didn’t say a bad tree stays in the garden, He said it gets cut down and thrown into the fire (Matthew 7:19). And Hebrews 12 says if someone doesn’t get disciplined by God, they’re not His child at all (Hebrews 12:8). You’re confusing discipline with license. The Bible doesn’t say a real Christian can live like the world and still go to heaven. It says to examine yourself to see if you’re really in the faith (2 Corinthians 13:5). If someone has no conviction, no change, and no desire for God, they’re not saved. Telling them otherwise is dangerous. You’re giving false assurance, and that leads people straight to hell.

..in the day, that you eat of it, you shall surely die - Genes is 2:17

God warned Adam, that if He ever violated God’s command or sinned, Adam shall surely die. But when Adam violated God’s command or sinned, Adam did not die physically, because in God’s eyes death is not just physical. You can die in many areas of your life, but still be physically alive. As a result of sin, Adam died intellectually, financially, socially, parts of his body began to slowly deteriorate and other areas suffered also. Adam also lost the privilege to communicate with God, but God was still his creator and Adam was still God’s creation, but their relationship had changed dramatically.
Adam no longer enjoyed God’s blessings, he was on his own. He had to survive without God’s help.

For the wages of sin is death - Romans 6:23

Everyone that sins, does not drop dead physically, but sin cuts you off from God’s blessings and in some cases it also leads to or causes physical death.
As stated previously, death isn’t just physical. Sin kills your health, your finances, your intellect, your career, your relationships and so on.

 

[TechWord]

You’re asking the wrong question. The Bible doesn’t say a truly born-again believer can lose salvation by living in sin. What it does say is that if someone claims to be saved but continues in sin without repentance, then they were never truly born again to begin with. 1 John 2:19 makes that clear: “They went out from us, but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us.” A real believer doesn’t walk away from Christ and stay there. Jesus said in Matthew 7:21–23 that many will say “Lord, Lord,” but He will say, “I never knew you,” not “I knew you and then you fell away.” That shows they were never saved. 2 Corinthians 5:17 says, “If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.” Romans 6:1–2 says we don’t continue in sin so grace may abound. True salvation leads to a changed life. If there’s no change, no conviction, and no desire to follow Christ, then that person isn’t saved, no matter what words they said. Titus 1:16 warns of people who “profess that they know God, but in works they deny him.” So no, you can’t lose salvation, when you never had it to begin with. That’s the biblical truth.

You’re telling people who were never truly saved that it’s okay to live in sin, as if that’s normal for a believer. All that does is lock them onto the broad road that leads to hell. You’ve convinced them they’re saved when they’re not, and that kind of deception has eternal consequences. This is deception and it will be on your hands.

Can you tell me why you want to do this?

Sinning is wrong by anyone. And no born again Christian is supposed to sin, but it happens.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness - 1 John 1:9

Whenever a born again Christian confesses their sins and asks for forgiveness, God forgives and cleanses them, and their relationship with God is restored back to normal.
God who knows everything, knew that humans would never be perfect and that’s why he gave us 1 John 1:9 , for whenever we stumble or fall.

 

[bdavidc]

There is no debate, that when you are saved or receive salvation, you are regenerated or changed, but thereafter, how much spiritual growth you experience, depends on whether you find the right place, people or literature to help you grow. Therefore, the improvements in born again Christians will vary from person to person.

The Bible teaches that when you are saved, you are changed by the Holy Spirit, as Titus 3:5 says, “he saved us... by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.” This happens the moment you trust in Jesus (Ephesians 2:8-9), making you a new person (2 Corinthians 5:17). But the idea that your spiritual growth depends on finding the right place, people, or books isn’t fully supported by Scripture. The Bible says growth comes from reading and obeying God’s Word with the Holy Spirit’s help. Psalm 119:105 calls God’s Word “a lamp to my feet and a light to my path,” and 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says Scripture is all you need to grow and be equipped for good works. Bibles are easy to find and read, and free audio Bibles are available anytime, so everyone can access God’s Word. While meeting with other believers is helpful (Hebrews 10:24-25), your growth mainly depends on how you respond to the Bible, as shown in the Parable of the Sower (Matthew 13:3-23). The Holy Spirit works in you (Philippians 2:13), and God’s Word is enough to make you grow (John 17:17). So, while Christians grow at different rates, you don’t need special places or people, just stay in the Bible, which is simple and always available.

 

[bdavidc]

Sinning is wrong by anyone. And no born again Christian is supposed to sin, but it happens.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness - 1 John 1:9

Whenever a born again Christian confesses their sins and asks for forgiveness, God forgives and cleanses them, and their relationship with God is restored back to normal.
God who knows everything, knew that humans would never be perfect and that’s why he gave us 1 John 1:9 , for whenever we stumble or fall.

Yes, 1 John 1:9 is true. God forgives us when we confess our sins. But that verse is not a free pass to keep sinning over and over. The Bible never says a saved person can live in sin and stay that way. It says the opposite. Romans 6:1–2 says, “Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.” If someone is truly saved, they don’t live in sin anymore. They might mess up, but they don’t stay there. They feel convicted, they repent, and they want to change.

1 John 3:9 says, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin,” meaning they don’t live in sin as a lifestyle. If someone keeps going back to the same sin with no real change, then they were never born again to begin with. Hebrews 10:26 warns that if we sin on purpose after knowing the truth, we’re in serious danger. Jesus also said in Luke 6:46, “Why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” You can’t say Jesus is your Lord and then ignore Him.

Real salvation changes you. You become a new person (2 Corinthians 5:17). If there’s no change, no conviction, no desire to obey God, then there’s no salvation. Saying sorry over and over without turning from sin is not repentance. It’s just playing games with God. And that won’t end well. So let’s be honest. If someone keeps living in sin, they need to examine whether they’re truly saved. This is serious. Eternity is on the line.