TWO GOSPELS THAT CANNOT BE THE SAME

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Col 1:23 KJV] 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.

[Mat 24:14 KJV] 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says that after the gospel was preached in all the world the end would come.

If the gospel WAS preached to the whole world, as Paul said, and the end did NOT come, then it must be a different gospel.

The gospel Jesus preached was the gospel of the kingdom; the prophetic Davidic kingdom in which Christ will reign a thousand years was at hand.

This was not the gospel Paul preached; Paul preached the grace of God.
 
  • Love
Reactions: LoveYeshua

Ronald Nolette

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2020
15,385
4,539
113
70
South Carolina
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
[Col 1:23 KJV] 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.

[Mat 24:14 KJV] 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says that after the gospel was preached in all the world the end would come.

If the gospel WAS preached to the whole world, as Paul said, and the end did NOT come, then it must be a different gospel.

The gospel Jesus preached was the gospel of the kingdom; the prophetic Davidic kingdom in which Christ will reign a thousand years was at hand.

This was not the gospel Paul preached; Paul preached the grace of God.
[Col 1:23 KJV] 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.

[Mat 24:14 KJV] 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says that after the gospel was preached in all the world the end would come.

If the gospel WAS preached to the whole world, as Paul said, and the end did NOT come, then it must be a different gospel.

The gospel Jesus preached was the gospel of the kingdom; the prophetic Davidic kingdom in which Christ will reign a thousand years was at hand.

This was not the gospel Paul preached; Paul preached the grace of God.
The gospel of the kingdom was the gospel preached to Israel to accept their promised kingdom. It will also be preached in teh tribulation along with the gospel of Jesus' death and resurrection. but for now the only gospel or good news going forward to all, both Jew and Gentile alike is the gospel that Jesus died and rose from the dead.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The gospel of the kingdom was the gospel preached to Israel to accept their promised kingdom. It will also be preached in teh tribulation along with the gospel of Jesus' death and resurrection. but for now the only gospel or good news going forward to all, both Jew and Gentile alike is the gospel that Jesus died and rose from the dead.
Thats right
 

LoveYeshua

Active Member
Sep 25, 2024
470
145
43
Quebec
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
[Col 1:23 KJV] 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.

[Mat 24:14 KJV] 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says that after the gospel was preached in all the world the end would come.

If the gospel WAS preached to the whole world, as Paul said, and the end did NOT come, then it must be a different gospel.

The gospel Jesus preached was the gospel of the kingdom; the prophetic Davidic kingdom in which Christ will reign a thousand years was at hand.

This was not the gospel Paul preached; Paul preached the grace of God.
you are right saying Paul preached a different gospel;

Here are the differences between Paul and Christ, based on Facts and scripture only, not interpretations;

Source of the Gospel — Jesus vs. Paul
Jesus' Gospel came directly from God the Father. He always spoke openly, with many witnesses. He taught in synagogues, on mountainsides, in homes, and in the temple — never in secret. His message was consistent, clear, and seen by all who followed or opposed Him.
“My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.” (John 7:16)
“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” (John 12:49)
“I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where the Jews always meet, and in secret I have said nothing.” (John 18:20)
Jesus did not testify of Himself only. He gave multiple witnesses to confirm who He was and what He taught:
* John the Baptist (John 5:33)
* The works He did (John 5:36)
* The Father’s own voice (John 5:37)
* The Scriptures (John 5:39)
* Moses’ writings (John 5:46)
Jesus said clearly:
“If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true.” (John 5:31)
This means even He, the Son of God, submitted to the rule of having multiple witnesses. This is a divine principle:
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.” (Matthew 18:16)

Paul’s “gospel,” on the other hand, came through a private vision that happened after Jesus had already ascended. There were no witnesses to verify what he claimed to see or hear. Paul even says he did not go to the other apostles to be taught, but instead preached based on what he believed was a revelation.
“But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.” (Galatians 1:11–12)
Absolutely No witnesses of these revelations that he received from Christ No witnesses at all!

“I did not immediately confer with flesh and blood, nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me.” (Galatians 1:16–17) all he said was from this revelations that no one ever witnessed.

His apostleship and gospel rest entirely on his own word, without public confirmation during the event.
This stands in direct contrast to Jesus and the twelve. While Jesus walked with His disciples, taught them openly, and gave them their mission face to face, Paul claimed his authority from a private, invisible experience.
Jesus warned us not to accept the word of one who testifies of himself alone. According to that standard, Paul’s gospel would not pass the test unless it fully matches Jesus’ words — which we will examine in the next points.


Obedience and Commandments — Jesus vs. Paul

Jesus: Obedience Is the Path to Life
Jesus taught that obeying God is not optional — it is the way to enter eternal life. Believing in Him means following His words, doing the will of the Father, and keeping the commandments. He never separated faith from obedience.
“But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21)
Jesus warned that simply hearing the truth is not enough — a true disciple must obey. He compared it to building a house on rock:
“Whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock.” (Matthew 7:24)
Jesus also said that breaking or teaching others to break even the least of the commandments is a serious matter:
“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)
And He declared plainly:
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.” (John 14:15)
For Jesus, obedience was not about ritual law or tradition, but about doing what is right according to God’s will. His gospel was a call to follow Him by living in truth, not just believing in name.

Paul: Justification Is By Faith Alone, Apart From the Law
Paul taught that a person is justified by faith without the works of the law. He repeated this many times, especially in Romans and Galatians. His focus was not on obedience to commandments, but on faith as the only requirement.
“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)
“For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” (Romans 10:4)
“You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.” (Galatians 5:4)
“By the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight.” (Romans 3:20)
Paul even claimed that those who try to live by the law are under a curse:
“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse.” (Galatians 3:10)
This directly contradicts Jesus, who said that keeping the commandments leads to life and breaking them leads to judgment. Jesus never said that obeying God’s law brings a curse — quite the opposite.

James: Faith Without Works Is Dead
James, the brother of Jesus, confirmed exactly what Jesus taught. He warned that faith without obedience is not true faith — it is dead.
“But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.” (James 1:22)
“What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?” (James 2:14)
“Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” (James 2:17)
“You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” (James 2:24)
James did not add anything new. He simply repeated what Jesus had already made clear: obedience is the proof of faith. Believing without doing is self-deception.
“You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble!” (James 2:19)
Both Jesus and James are in full agreement: faith must be lived, not just spoken. Paul’s teaching of “faith without the law” stands in tension with this truth.

Summary of the Contrast:




Jesus & JamesPaul
Keep the commandments to enter lifeJustified by faith, not by the law
Faith must be lived out in obedienceWorks of the law are not needed
Disobedience leads to judgmentTrying to keep the law brings a curse
Be doers of the wordFaith alone is enough for righteousness


Jesus said:
“If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matthew 19:17)
Paul said:
“A man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” (Romans 3:28)

These are not the same gospel. Paul has his own gospel, he refers to it as MY gospel!

Rom 2:16 on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Christ Jesus, as proclaimed by my gospel. ( really?)

Rom 16:25 Now to Him who is able to strengthen you by my gospel and by the proclamation of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery concealed for ages past. (Really?)

2Ti 2:8 Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David, as proclaimed by my gospel,( really?)

I have more to say but will you or anybody else will want to hear the truth? let this sink in,

I urge everyone here to Listen and Follow Christ's teachings as it should, be directly from Jesus words our Master and No one else.
 

jeffweeder

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2007
1,300
1,088
113
62
South Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
[Col 1:23 KJV] 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.

[Mat 24:14 KJV] 14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Jesus says that after the gospel was preached in all the world the end would come.

If the gospel WAS preached to the whole world, as Paul said, and the end did NOT come, then it must be a different gospel.

The gospel Jesus preached was the gospel of the kingdom; the prophetic Davidic kingdom in which Christ will reign a thousand years was at hand.

This was not the gospel Paul preached; Paul preached the grace of God.

Not so.
How do I know this?....,

1cor 15
15 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith]. 2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 5 and that He appeared to Cephas (Peter), then to the Twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, the majority of whom are still alive, but some have fallen asleep [in death]. 7 Then He was seen by James, then by all the apostles, 8 and last of all, as to one untimely (prematurely, traumatically) born, He appeared to me also.

9 For I am the least [worthy] of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I [at one time] fiercely oppressed and violently persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the [remarkable] grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not without effect. In fact, I worked harder than all of the apostles, though it was not I, but the grace of God [His unmerited favor and blessing which was] with me. 11 So whether it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed and trusted in and relied on with confidence.


The Corinthians would have believed the same Gospel no matter which Apostle preached it to them.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
9,413
5,651
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

Same gospel to all the nations, jew or gentile.
Entire world
All nations
A witness to the truth in Christ, that in His name is preached the forgiveness of sins.

Luke 24

The Scriptures Opened​

44 Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” 45 And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.

46 Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, [l]and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,

47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

48 And you are witnesses of these things.

49 Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city [m]of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high.”

This here is the gospel.
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,960
12,183
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Paul is saying here that the gospel WAS preached to EVERY creature, so therefore, the gospel WAS preached to the whole world. There was no creature under heaven, which is the world, who did not hear the gospel.
The KJV translates the preposition "en" as "to". "En" generally means "in", and most translations capture it this way:

23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. (Colossians 1:23 NASB)

This understanding is consistent with Paul's understanding in Romans 1:19-20. All creation testifies to God's power and divine nature.

So, I think you are starting from an incorrect premise grounded in a mistranslation.
 

Scott Downey

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2021
9,413
5,651
113
65
St. Thomas
Faith
Christian
Country
Virgin Islands, U.S.
Everyone gets born, and everyone then has not yet heard the gospel until they hear or read about it or God reveals it to them like He did with Paul. In other words, the gospel always comes to you from God, but God uses means to accomplish that.

The Galatian people were from Gaul.
Galatians 1
11 But I make known to you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through the revelation of Jesus Christ.
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not so.
How do I know this?....,

1cor 15
15 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith]. 2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 5 and that He appeared to Cephas (Peter), then to the Twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, the majority of whom are still alive, but some have fallen asleep [in death]. 7 Then He was seen by James, then by all the apostles, 8 and last of all, as to one untimely (prematurely, traumatically) born, He appeared to me also.

9 For I am the least [worthy] of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I [at one time] fiercely oppressed and violently persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the [remarkable] grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not without effect. In fact, I worked harder than all of the apostles, though it was not I, but the grace of God [His unmerited favor and blessing which was] with me. 11 So whether it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed and trusted in and relied on with confidence.


The Corinthians would have believed the same Gospel no matter which Apostle preached it to them.
Sorry I dont get what you are saying
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The KJV translates the preposition "en" as "to". "En" generally means "in", and most translations capture it this way:

23 if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. (Colossians 1:23 NASB)

This understanding is consistent with Paul's understanding in Romans 1:19-20. All creation testifies to God's power and divine nature.

So, I think you are starting from an incorrect premise grounded in a mistranslation.
Not sure your translation is correct
 

Lambano

Well-Known Member
Jul 13, 2021
8,960
12,183
113
Island of Misfit Toys
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not sure your translation is correct

Feel free to learn the basics of NT Greek. The resources are readily available.

But c'mon, ask yourself: Was the gospel literally already preached to, say, the native tribes in North and South America, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Australian aborigines...?
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Not so.
How do I know this?....,

1cor 15
15 Now brothers and sisters, let me remind you [once again] of the good news [of salvation] which I preached to you, which you welcomed and accepted and on which you stand [by faith]. 2 By this faith you are saved [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, and set apart for His purpose], if you hold firmly to the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain [just superficially and without complete commitment].

3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 4 and that He was buried, and that He was [bodily] raised on the third day according to [that which] the Scriptures [foretold], 5 and that He appeared to Cephas (Peter), then to the Twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, the majority of whom are still alive, but some have fallen asleep [in death]. 7 Then He was seen by James, then by all the apostles, 8 and last of all, as to one untimely (prematurely, traumatically) born, He appeared to me also.

9 For I am the least [worthy] of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I [at one time] fiercely oppressed and violently persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the [remarkable] grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not without effect. In fact, I worked harder than all of the apostles, though it was not I, but the grace of God [His unmerited favor and blessing which was] with me. 11 So whether it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed and trusted in and relied on with confidence.


The Corinthians would have believed the same Gospel no matter which Apostle preached it to them.
I will comment on this verse..............[1Co 15:11 KJV] 11 Therefore whether [it were] I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

Paul was saying that both he and Peter and the disciples preached Christ and his resurrection (see v12)

There is a difference in what they preached in regard to the resurrection

[Act 2:30 KJV] 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

Peter preached Christ rose and was alive to fulfill the prophetic Davidic earthly kingdom in which he will reign for a thousand years. It was prophesized that he would sit on Davids's throne in the kingdom (see Luke 1:32)

[Rom 4:25 KJV] 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

Paul preached Christ was raised for our justification unto eternal life
 

Doug

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2018
3,926
739
113
south
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Feel free to learn the basics of NT Greek. The resources are readily available.

But c'mon, ask yourself: Was the gospel literally already preached to, say, the native tribes in North and South America, the Chinese, the Japanese, the Australian aborigines...?
It may not be speaking of the world at this time and is used elsewhere
[Mat 26:13 KJV] 13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, [there] shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
[Rom 1:8 KJV] 8 First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.
[1Jo 5:19 KJV] 19 [And] we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness.