In Defense of OSAS – Why "Once Saved, Always Saved" Is the Heart of the Gospel

[Davy]

OSAS is true ! but for people or Satanist who work to bastardise it ! and add their load of BS to such ?
I have come across such people who peddle another form of OSAS load of total BS ! They claim to be born again ? but what they claim born again, is another load of total BS ! as well !

So in what they peddle is that one gets born again by, you reapeating what they tell you what to say and after that Bingo you are what they call born again ? But that is totaly false in fact and Satanic !

Then they demand that now, one is then open to do what ever you please for they claim you are going to Heaven regardless now ? so do what ever, Kill whoever you want etc, because such are going to Heaven regardless !

But such as That is total BS ! Because one who is truly born again, does not go against that of Christ Jesus ! Jesus never aproved of killing others !

If you kill a person your Soul is in grave trouble ! that's a fact ! that will mess with your mined for sure !
and you do not have licence to Kill anyone !
Why would one who is Save want to kill anyone ? They only want others to be Saved !

How does one become truly born again ? well their is a change in you and you seek strongly to know of Jesus, that's strong faith in him, that's for starters but you still do grow and when one becomes Saved you know Christ Jesus and He knows you ! so you are abiding regardless, you can not turn away, because no one can snatch you out of his hand !

Not to mention one still grows regardless ! that never ends !

Not to mention once you truly know that he is Christ Jesus 100% then you are born again. because he is your Lord and Saviour, now at that point you are Saved ! but you is still learning ? Jesus comes to you ! that's how you know ! you will be blowen away by it, you will never forget it !

No one makes you born again in fact never ever ! as it's truly a working of the Holy Spirit in fact ! nothing to do with that of mans works ever !

Now if you have 99.99% faith in Jesus is the Christ, that is not Saved ! you must have faith that can move mountains in fact, as that is God given !

We do not believe in Man ? we abide in Christ Jesus as we do his will as he does just that such in us ! we do not seek the Glory but that of Him ! is given ! all of the Glory in fact ! because it's not us that do the workings ? it's him in us ! That's the Power of the Holy Spirit ! it's this one that can move mountains ! and it clearly does or can do if we abide in him !

That Mob who peddled the BS OSAS nonsense, they would alwasy say look at what, they see as workings of their gods ? such was of Mans works in fact ! I can clearly see that, but not them ! they demanded works ? but also said demanded they rejected works ? but they were all truly about mans works ? just they wrapped it up differently for fools ? I can see what is of Gods works and what is of mans works in fact ! but they clearly can not !

Not to mention they Idolise the so called Jews ! and are all about the 2ed coming ! for they do not have faith in Christ Jesus in fact and that is clear to me ! for if one did have Salvation, you would know that you are Saved ? so why Idolise the 2ed coming ? for the 2ed coming is of Satan, as Satan comes first in fact = The Hell fire ! but They are under the delusion that they are going to be raptured up ? saved from the Hellfire that they sowed the seed of ? They want to kill people, that's who they truly are ! nothing to do with Jesus ? but they have another Jesus ? he is not the Christ Jesus !

I grasp what you are saying, but it's really more simple than all that. And God still does... sanction killing, like in war. It is 'murder' (homicide) that He does not sanction, and is what His commandment is about (see Matthew 19:18).

The heart of man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Bible based at all. It instead creates a false dividing line between believers that should never exist.

It creates one group that believe once they are saved there is nothing they can do in the future to lose being saved. Most of those even forget about the unpardonable sin which Lord Jesus said will NOT be forgiven, not in this world, nor in the world to come (Matthew 12:32). These should study the Hebrews 10 Chapter for a little lesson on treating Christ's Salvation as an unholy thing by their laissez-faire attitude about not repenting of future sin.

Then there are those of the other group which well understand that those in Christ still need to examine themselves for sin, and repent, asking forgiveness of future sin, like Apostle John showed in 1 John 1, and Lord Jesus showed in His recommended prayer of Luke 11, which includes asking forgiveness of sins. These understand per God's Word that Christ's Salvation, even though it is a free gift and can never be earned by us, is not to be treated in an unholy manner, meaning we still need to have our 'walk' with Jesus and by The Holy Spirit, instead of following a system of man that seeks to go around both.

This is why those who treat Christ's Salvation as an unholy thing by not repenting of future sin place themselves in that category of Matthew 7:21-23 that had many works in Jesus' Name, but still had 'iniquity', and Jesus showed He never knew them at His future return.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The doctrine of Once Saved, Always Saved (OSAS) is one of the most misunderstood and misrepresented teachings in the Christian faith. Critics often claim that it encourages sin, ignores repentance, or contradicts church tradition. Some even call it "Gnostic" or "cheap grace."

But OSAS is not a modern invention, nor is it a license to sin. It is a profound expression of the depth of God’s grace, the security of Christ’s finished work, and the freedom of the believer in the New Covenant.

Let’s take a closer look.


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1. The Biblical Foundation for Eternal Security

The clearest testimony comes from Christ Himself:

> “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.”
— John 10:28



Notice the words: eternal, never, no one. Not even you can snatch yourself from His hand. That’s security, not presumption.

> “Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.”
— John 5:24



He has eternal life. Not "might have." Not "as long as he behaves." The transfer from death to life is permanent.

> “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God—not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
— Ephesians 2:8–9



If salvation is not from works, how could it be lost by works?


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2. Is Grace Conditional? Then It’s Not Grace.

If our salvation depends on maintaining obedience, then the Gospel becomes a contract, not a gift.
You’d be back under law: perform or perish.

That’s not Good News.

The Apostle Paul was clear:

> “Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
— Galatians 3:3



You didn’t earn it. You can’t keep it by effort. The same God who saved you is the one who keeps you.


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3. But What About Apostasy?

What about those who “fall away”? Scripture gives two answers:

1. They were never truly born again



> “They went out from us, but they were not of us…” (1 John 2:19)
Outward faith can mimic real regeneration. Only God sees the heart.



2. God disciplines His children, not disowns them



> “The Lord disciplines those he loves…” (Hebrews 12:6)
Falling into sin invites correction, not rejection.




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4. OSAS Is Not an Excuse to Sin

True believers don’t want to abuse grace. Why?

> “No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him.”
— 1 John 3:9



A new heart means new desires.
A Christian may stumble, but he no longer walks in the same direction.


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5. Historical and Theological Witnesses

Luther: Salvation by grace alone, through faith alone.

Calvin: The elect will persevere because God preserves them.

The Catholic Church, even with its emphasis on mortal sin, still teaches that God’s mercy is greater than human failure.


The early Church saw salvation as a secure covenant, not a fragile agreement.


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6. Without OSAS, God Becomes a Tyrant

Let’s be honest: If God saves you, but lets go of you the moment you mess up, that’s not a loving Father—that’s a judge with a short fuse.

If salvation can be lost, we live in fear, not faith.

> “There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear…”
— 1 John 4:18



OSAS doesn’t make God weak. It shows He is strong enough to carry us, even when we fall.


---

7. The Cross Is Enough

Jesus doesn’t need to die again every time you sin. He died once for all.

> “For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.”
— Hebrews 10:14



Your justification is not in progress. It is finished.


---

Conclusion

Without OSAS, the Gospel becomes fear-based religion.
With OSAS, it becomes what it was always meant to be: Good News.

God is not calling you to walk a tightrope. He is calling you to trust in a finished work.

Once saved, always saved – not because we hold on to God, but because He holds on to us.

> “If we are faithless, He remains faithful – for He cannot deny Himself.”
— 2 Timothy 2:13

This is a case of cherry picking certain scriptures and making a doctrine out of those scriptures while contradicting many other scriptures. You need to look at ALL of scripture before coming to any conclusions and you are clearly not doing that.

The fact that God is always faithful and won't leave us does not mean we can't leave Him. If someone leaves Him, does that mean God left that person? No. So, it remains true in that case that God never left that person. That person left Him. You're only looking at part of the story here.

Why would warnings like the following be given to believers if a person can't lose their salvation?

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me. 5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

Romans 11:20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. 22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Hebrews 3:12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness. 14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

Hebrews 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Hebrews 10:26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

Colossians 1:22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

2 Peter 2:20 If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and are overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. 21 It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22 Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed returns to her wallowing in the mud.”

James 5:19 My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, 20 remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. 2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Are the warnings given to believers in these verses about being careful not to fall away and turn away from God and about the need to keep our faith or else being cut off from God just empty threats? I don't believe so.

Take Hebrews 3:12-14, for instance (see above). That is addressed to "holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling" who have faith in Christ (Hebrews 3:1). As a saved believer, do you not think you need to examine yourself to make sure you don't have "a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God"? Do you think you don't need to concern yourself with encouraging others and being encouraged daily so that so that you are not "hardened by sin’s deceitfulness"? Do you think you don't need to worry about whether or not you hold your "original conviction to the very end"? Do you think you have no responsibility to stay faithful to Christ?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I grasp what you are saying, but it's really more simple than all that. And God still does... sanction killing, like in war. It is 'murder' (homicide) that He does not sanction, and is what His commandment is about (see Matthew 19:18).

The heart of man's 'Once Saved, Always Saved' doctrine is not Bible based at all. It instead creates a false dividing line between believers that should never exist.

It creates one group that believe once they are saved there is nothing they can do in the future to lose being saved. Most of those even forget about the unpardonable sin which Lord Jesus said will NOT be forgiven, not in this world, nor in the world to come (Matthew 12:32). These should study the Hebrews 10 Chapter for a little lesson on treating Christ's Salvation as an unholy thing by their laissez-faire attitude about not repenting of future sin.

Then there are those of the other group which well understand that those in Christ still need to examine themselves for sin, and repent, asking forgiveness of future sin, like Apostle John showed in 1 John 1, and Lord Jesus showed in His recommended prayer of Luke 11, which includes asking forgiveness of sins. These understand per God's Word that Christ's Salvation, even though it is a free gift and can never be earned by us, is not to be treated in an unholy manner, meaning we still need to have our 'walk' with Jesus and by The Holy Spirit, instead of following a system of man that seeks to go around both.

This is why those who treat Christ's Salvation as an unholy thing by not repenting of future sin place themselves in that category of Matthew 7:21-23 that had many works in Jesus' Name, but still had 'iniquity', and Jesus showed He never knew them at His future return.

Yes I was puting such forward for comment, Thank you dear Davy. right you are.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Like I said before, nobody here has presented even one verse whereby there is any mention of the seal of Holy Spirit being withdrawn nor too weak to remain upon the one whom had been sealed. If you think there is such a verse, then please quote it here.

The "seal" you speak of is actually a claim where the Lord has claimed those that have been born again as in He has put His "mark" on them so to speak. We know this because of God's warnings that demonstrate OSAS is not a biblical doctrine so as:

2 Peter 2:20
For if after they have escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

2 Peter 2:20 is without a doubt speaking about those that have been born again, notice the part that says "escaped the pollution of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ"

Someone has to get extra help from demons to not understand what 2 Peter 2:20 is speaking of and of course the demons are always happy to help these folks out in their quest to remain blinded.

The "seal" talk is a fabrication that carnal minded religious false teachers came up with so they could continue living in sin and still believe they are saved not to mention this false teaching is a great ear tickling message for them to teach others so they too can continue living in sin and feel good about themselves thinking they are still saved when they are not.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

I disagree. Jesus' is the Word of God. There are no mistakes in His perfect Will of the Father. You cannot disagree with one thing Jesus said. It is as solid as He is the Rock.

You are inventive to come up with things that I never said, so I am left wondering what other things you invent that not even Jesus said...

BTW

 

[Rockerduck]

You are inventive to come up with things that I never said, so I am left wondering what other things you invent that not even Jesus said...

BTW

Invent? Read your bible.

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Romans 12:2 - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 7:24-Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Psalms 18:2 -
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my [a]strength, in whom I will trust; -
My shield and the [b]horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1 Corinthians 10:4 - and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Read your bible

The OSAS folks twist God's Word and otherwise ignore God's warnings that prove OSAS is not a biblical doctrine as they teach it.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Invent? Read your bible.

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Romans 12:2 - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 7:24-Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Psalms 18:2 -
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my [a]strength, in whom I will trust; -
My shield and the [b]horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1 Corinthians 10:4 - and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

You invented things that I did not say in order to launch into your senseless rhetoric.

BTW

 

[Rockerduck]

You invented things that I did not say in order to launch into your senseless rhetoric.

BTW

I didn't invent the bible. Nor did write any gospel. I posted scriptures, nothing contrived by humans.

 

[BeforeThereWas]

Please practice reading comprehension skills by addressing what others have actually said.

 

[Rockerduck]

Please practice reading comprehension skills by addressing what others have actually said.

You said "Perhaps the better way to state what I said is that, even though quoting Jesus, misapplication is still a means for introducing error."

I said "I disagree. Jesus' is the Word of God. There are no mistakes in His perfect Will of the Father. You cannot disagree with one thing Jesus said. It is as solid as He is the Rock:".

You said "You are inventive to come up with things that I never said, so I am left wondering what other things you invent that not even Jesus said...

I then summarized everything I said in scripture. Jesus is the Word of God, Perfect Will of the Father, and Jesus is the Rock

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

Romans 12:2 - And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

Matthew 7:24-Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

Psalms 18:2 -
The Lord is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my [a]strength, in whom I will trust; -
My shield and the [b]horn of my salvation, my stronghold.

1 Corinthians 10:4 - and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

What are we initially saved from when we are saved? It's our past sins, not future sins that may be committed subsequent to our initial salvation.

Initially saved? Salvation is not probation.

In regard to past sins. Romans 3:25 (AMP) - whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

This sheds light on what is meant by PAST sins. It does not mean that Jesus' death was ONLY for past sins or that ONLY our past sins are forgiven when we are saved.

*Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

*Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

Further translations of Romans 3:25 read:

ESV - whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

HCSB - God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

NASB - whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed.

NIV - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.

 

[Big Boy Johnson]

Looks like Rocker Duck wins this round!

 

[DJT_47]

Initially saved? Salvation is not probation.

In regard to past sins. Romans 3:25 (AMP) - whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

This sheds light on what is meant by PAST sins. It does not mean that Jesus' death was ONLY for past sins or that ONLY our past sins are forgiven when we are saved.

*Acts 13:39 - and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.

*Colossians 2:13 - And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses.

Further translations of Romans 3:25 read:

ESV - whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.

HCSB - God presented Him as a propitiation through faith in His blood, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His restraint God passed over the sins previously committed.

NASB - whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed.

NIV - God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished.

Rom 3:25

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

 

[mailmandan]

Rom 3:25

25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Past as in sins previously committed before Jesus’ crucifixion. Again, this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed.

 

[DJT_47]

Past as in sins previously committed before Jesus’ crucifixion. Again, this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed.

It doesn't? Maybe to you it doesn't but it says what it says, and no scripture infers that you get a free pass, like dumb Biden pardoning people for future things not even done irrespective of what they may be. Hebrews were warned of salvation loss. The 7 churches of Asia some of which were in jeopardy. There are no free passes to allow you to do whatever like going forward, that thise things will automatically be forgiven without you doing something about them, like repenting. Once again, you're wrong, but you got a great and consistent track record of being wrong!. Keep up the good work!

 

[mailmandan]

It doesn't? Maybe to you it doesn't but it says what it says, and no scripture infers that you get a free pass, like dumb Biden pardoning people for future things not even done irrespective of what they may be. Hebrews were warned of salvation loss. The 7 churches of Asia some of which were in jeopardy. There are no free passes to allow you to do whatever like going forward, that thise things will automatically be forgiven without you doing something about them, like repenting. Once again, you're wrong, but you got a great and consistent track record of being wrong!. Keep up the hood work!

No, it doesn't and I never said anything about a free pass (lasciviousness) which exposes an unregenerate heart (1 John 3:7-10; Jude 1:4) yet either all of our sins have been forgiven (Acts 13:38-39; Colossians 2:13) based on His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus through the shedding of his blood to be received by faith (Romans 3:24-26) and we are saved or else none of our sins have been forgiven and we are not saved. We are either in a saved state or an unsaved state. There is no middle ground. No revolving door. There are only sheep and goats. The precious blood of Christ cleanses us (believers) from all sin (1 John 1:7) which is descriptive of those who walk in the light in contrast with those who say that we have fellowship with Him (unbelievers/make believers) and yet walk in the darkness, lie and do not practice the truth. (1 John 1:6) Also see 1 John 2:9-11.

Now the letters to the 7 churches are addressed to those churches as a whole and do not teach a loss of salvation. In regard to repenting, the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2 needed to repent "change their mind" regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for the depth of love it once had for the Lord. Only those who overcome (also see 1 John 5:4), the Lord will grant the privilege to eat the fruit from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

So, what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? He did not mean repent and believe the gospel all over again in order to become saved all over again. The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church in Ephesus will lose their salvation, but that the church there can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness, which apparently it did. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) is now dominated by Islam. I find your wise crack to be ironic. It's actually you who has a great and consistent track record of being wrong, but you will never admit it.

In regard to another church, Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. Here we see a stark contrast between its outward appearance and inward reality. Jesus' message to the church here emphasizes the need for spiritual vitality and warns against the facade of religiosity. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent in order to become saved with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together in various churches throughout scripture and also on various Christian forum sites.

 

[DJT_47]

No, it doesn't and I never said anything about a free pass (lasciviousness) which exposes an unregenerate heart (1 John 3:7-10; Jude 1:4) yet either all of our sins have been forgiven (Acts 13:38-39; Colossians 2:13) based on His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus through the shedding of his blood to be received by faith (Romans 3:24-26) and we are saved or else none of our sins have been forgiven and we are not saved. We are either in a saved state or an unsaved state. There is no middle ground. No revolving door. There are only sheep and goats. The precious blood of Christ cleanses us (believers) from all sin (1 John 1:7) which is descriptive of those who walk in the light in contrast with those who say that we have fellowship with Him (unbelievers/make believers) and yet walk in the darkness, lie and do not practice the truth. (1 John 1:6) Also see 1 John 2:9-11.

Now the letters to the 7 churches are addressed to those churches as a whole and do not teach a loss of salvation. In regard to repenting, the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2 needed to repent "change their mind" regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for the depth of love it once had for the Lord. Only those who overcome (also see 1 John 5:4), the Lord will grant the privilege to eat the fruit from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

So, what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? He did not mean repent and believe the gospel all over again in order to become saved all over again. The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church in Ephesus will lose their salvation, but that the church there can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness, which apparently it did. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) is now dominated by Islam. I find your wise crack to be ironic. It's actually you who has a great and consistent track record of being wrong, but you will never admit it.

In regard to another church, Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. Here we see a stark contrast between its outward appearance and inward reality. Jesus' message to the church here emphasizes the need for spiritual vitality and warns against the facade of religiosity. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent in order to become saved with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together in various churches throughout scripture and also on various Christian forum sites.

Here's your original response to my posting to which I responded. Your comment (below) makes zero sense! What you are inferring is that "past sins" means all sins ever committed, and by who? Everyone that lived, carte blanc, which would mean Jews, heathens, etc., throughout history up to the time of Christ's death, as opposed to only those individuals after his death who believed and were baptized into his body, like the Jews on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:38. How could your comment relate to new post-death believers after his crucifixion? Your statement makes no sense! And "sins previously committed" means "past sins". Your 2nd sentence contradicts the 1st sentence. I don't know what you're saying; do you??

"Past as in sins previously committed before Jesus’ crucifixion. Again, this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed."

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No, it doesn't and I never said anything about a free pass (lasciviousness) which exposes an unregenerate heart (1 John 3:7-10; Jude 1:4) yet either all of our sins have been forgiven (Acts 13:38-39; Colossians 2:13) based on His grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus through the shedding of his blood to be received by faith (Romans 3:24-26) and we are saved or else none of our sins have been forgiven and we are not saved. We are either in a saved state or an unsaved state. There is no middle ground. No revolving door. There are only sheep and goats. The precious blood of Christ cleanses us (believers) from all sin (1 John 1:7) which is descriptive of those who walk in the light in contrast with those who say that we have fellowship with Him (unbelievers/make believers) and yet walk in the darkness, lie and do not practice the truth. (1 John 1:6) Also see 1 John 2:9-11.

Now the letters to the 7 churches are addressed to those churches as a whole and do not teach a loss of salvation. In regard to repenting, the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2 needed to repent "change their mind" regarding their works. "You have left your first love" (verse 4). "Repent and do the first works" (verse 5). Works of love no longer characterized the church as a whole in Ephesus. In verses 2 and 6, we see that the church in Ephesus was not totally displeasing to the Lord, yet hating the deeds of the Nicolaitans and standing up for doctrinal purity still cannot be a substitute for the depth of love it once had for the Lord. Only those who overcome (also see 1 John 5:4), the Lord will grant the privilege to eat the fruit from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. (Revelation 2:7)

So, what did the Lord mean when He spoke of removing the church's lampstand if the church in Ephesus did not repent? He did not mean repent and believe the gospel all over again in order to become saved all over again. The removal of the lampstand is clearly figurative language. This does not mean that individuals in the church in Ephesus will lose their salvation, but that the church there can forfeit its place of light bearing and witness, which apparently it did. Ephesus (located in modern day Turkey) is now dominated by Islam. I find your wise crack to be ironic. It's actually you who has a great and consistent track record of being wrong, but you will never admit it.

In regard to another church, Jesus points out the lifeless state of the church in Sardis - "..you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead." This church may have had a name of being alive, but they were spiritually lifeless. Here we see a stark contrast between its outward appearance and inward reality. Jesus' message to the church here emphasizes the need for spiritual vitality and warns against the facade of religiosity. In other words, the church was filled with unsaved people going through the motions of religion who needed to wake up and repent in order to become saved with a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their garments; and they will walk with Jesus in white.

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" or pseudo-Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not hard to find them mixed together in various churches throughout scripture and also on various Christian forum sites.

Amen

Jesus said it is finished. Not I did my part. now you do yours

 

[mailmandan]

Here's your original response to my posting to which I responded. Your comment (below) makes zero sense! What you are inferring is that "past sins" means all sins ever committed, and by who? Everyone that lived, carte blanc, which would mean Jews, heathens, etc., throughout history up to the time of Christ's death, as opposed to only those individuals after his death who believed and were baptized into his body, like the Jews on the day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts 2:38. How could your comment relate to new post-death believers after his crucifixion? Your statement makes no sense! And "sins previously committed" means "past sins". Your 2nd sentence contradicts the 1st sentence. I don't know what you're saying; do you??

"Past as in sins previously committed before Jesus’ crucifixion. Again, this does not mean that Jesus' death was only for past sins or that only our past sins are cleansed by the blood of Christ and something further is needed."

My comment makes perfect sense and there was no contradiction. You just don't understand because you teach performance based works salvation. The phrase "sins that are past" refers to sins that were committed before the sacrifice of Jesus, particularly of Old Testament believers. In God's forbearance, He did not immediately punish those sins but instead, passed over them, holding back His wrath. This was temporary as God's justice would ultimately be satisfied through Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross. Try not to over think this.