WHAT IS THE WATER IN JOHN 3:5?

[Gary Mac]

The reason that a person is water baptized is because a sinner has received Salvation, and then they are to be water baptized, as this is symbolic, of a sinner being "risen with Christ ".

SO Jesus was a sinner then baptized and was saved?

From what I see Jesus was a son of God went into the water and came out of it a wet son of God. The water didnt open in Jesus Gods heaven, God Himself did after he went into the water. John to knew what was about to happen in Jesus before Jesus did and said so when he told Jesus there is one coming after me, the one who baptizes in water, that I cannot give you and look what happened. God Himself came to Jesus and opened in him all of who He is and all of His heaven in that man just as He does in us all who will recoevbe Him as Jesus did.

Water has noting at all to do with born again which is Gods salvation with the same knowledge of God and His heaven be in you.

So, Jesus was not a Sinner.

But you just stated that a person is water baptized because a sinner received salvation. But what I read is John baptized Jesus in water, then God baptized him by the Spirit that God is opening up who He is and His heaven in that man. Salvation is God manifesting Himself in you.

He's the sinless the Son of God, who was water baptized NOT as a sinner.

You are contradicting yourself.

Jesus was born of God after he was baptized by John, read it. And we all who are born of God]\ the very same as Jesus became in Matt 3:16 cannot sin impossible to be in sin because we are born of God. 1 John 3:9.

Jesus was only fullfilling the Law.

No the law was fulfilled in him by Gods Spirit making the laws come to life in that man, just as we all are fulfilled in the law by God Himself making the laws who we are, not what we try and be by law.

.....as this was required on our behalf so that His Sacrifice would be accepted by God.
Even John thought it was ludicrous and told Jesus that He needed to be baptized by Jesus.
Read the verse.

John needed the same baptism from God by the Spirit He is and so do we all

And the Holy Spirit descended UPON Jesus.......not Inside Him.

Not inside Him? Spirit is who we are not what we are. You never have met the God of Spirit to have His same mind have you or you would not have Mande such a ridiculous remark that Spirit does not resides in man. The kingdom of God does not come with observation, it is with you. God coming to Jesus was within not without as you see Jesus separated from the mind of God, Spirit.

Read the verse.

It means that Jesus became like God to know the difference from the laws of man and the Spirit of God to become like Him instead of trying to follow laws that one will fail miserably every time, for if you book one of them you are guilty of them all. But if you have the mind of God, those laws are fulfilled in you and they are who you become, not what you try and be of them.

So, this means that this was an empowering of the Holy Spirit, that begain Jesus's ministry.

Yes God opening in that man who He is and all of his heaven in him, before he was of the law, after it is who he became, law fulfilled in hi. And we are not exempt from the very same.

It's the same that came to Peter in Acts 2, ... it's an ANOINTING for Ministry.

No its s an anointing for life in Love, and one who has the mind of ministry will follow, not by law but by a heart for man, good or bad. .

.....as Peter had already received the Holy Spirit, before Pentecost.

So did Adam proven in Gen 3;22. So did Abraham same Spirit, Moses by the same Spirit, Mary Jesus, 120 in an upper room by the sea Spirit, And all today who has received that same Spirit of mind.

Read John 20:22.
So, Jesus was receiving the anointing for Ministry, he was not being born again, as He was not a sinner needing Salvation.

Ethn lets just throw out Matt 3:16 as false when God did come to him by the Spirit He is and opens up all of His heaven n that man, saved him fro there laws of the Jews to become like Him instaead.

And after that here is who Jesus said he became in God,

Not many actually believe Jesus in who he became in the Father only after Matt 3:16 when he was about 30 years old do they?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

 

[nedsk]

SO Jesus was a sinner then baptized and was saved?

From what I see Jesus was a son of God went into the water and came out of it a wet son of God. The water didnt open in Jesus Gods heaven, God Himself did after he went into the water. John to knew what was about to happen in Jesus before Jesus did and said so when he told Jesus there is one coming after me, the one who baptizes in water, that I cannot give you and look what happened. God Himself came to Jesus and opened in him all of who He is and all of His heaven in that man just as He does in us all who will recoevbe Him as Jesus did.

Water has noting at all to do with born again which is Gods salvation with the same knowledge of God and His heaven be in you.


But you just stated that a person is water baptized because a sinner received salvation. But what I read is John baptized Jesus in water, then God baptized him by the Spirit that God is opening up who He is and His heaven in that man. Salvation is God manifesting Himself in you.


You are contradicting yourself.

Jesus was born of God after he was baptized by John, read it. And we all who are born of God]\ the very same as Jesus became in Matt 3:16 cannot sin impossible to be in sin because we are born of God. 1 John 3:9.


No the law was fulfilled in him by Gods Spirit making the laws come to life in that man, just as we all are fulfilled in the law by God Himself making the laws who we are, not what we try and be by law.


John needed the same baptism from God by the Spirit He is and so do we all


Not inside Him? Spirit is who we are not what we are. You never have met the God of Spirit to have His same mind have you or you would not have Mande such a ridiculous remark that Spirit does not resides in man. The kingdom of God does not come with observation, it is with you. God coming to Jesus was within not without as you see Jesus separated from the mind of God, Spirit.


It means that Jesus became like God to know the difference from the laws of man and the Spirit of God to become like Him instead of trying to follow laws that one will fail miserably every time, for if you book one of them you are guilty of them all. But if you have the mind of God, those laws are fulfilled in you and they are who you become, not what you try and be of them.

Yes God opening in that man who He is and all of his heaven in him, before he was of the law, after it is who he became, law fulfilled in hi. And we are not exempt from the very same.

No its s an anointing for life in Love, and one who has the mind of ministry will follow, not by law but by a heart for man, good or bad. .


So did Adam proven in Gen 3;22. So did Abraham same Spirit, Moses by the same Spirit, Mary Jesus, 120 in an upper room by the sea Spirit, And all today who has received that same Spirit of mind.


Ethn lets just throw out Matt 3:16 as false when God did come to him by the Spirit He is and opens up all of His heaven n that man, saved him fro there laws of the Jews to become like Him instaead.

And after that here is who Jesus said he became in God,

Not many actually believe Jesus in who he became in the Father only after Matt 3:16 when he was about 30 years old do they?

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

How can water have nothing to do with being born again when scripture explicitly says,

Jesus said, 'Amen amen, I say to you no can enter the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and spirit'. John 3:5

 

[Gary Mac]

How can water have nothing to do with being born again when scripture explicitly says,

Jesus said, 'Amen amen, I say to you no can the kingdom of heaven unless he is born of water and spirit'. John 3:5

Did the thief on the cross get baptized in water to be saved with Jesus to be in his paradise?
What about Adam who came to Gods heaven to be like Him in Gen3;22, what about Abrahm God didnt save him ? What about Moses, God didnt save him and didnt send him out to be Gods witness? What about Mary. Didnt the very same Spirit of God come to her who came to Jesus? Were none of these saved because of water?

I was saved by God several years before a man baptized me in water and the only reason I did that was to appease the preachers mind. I went into the water a saved son of God and came out of the water a wet son of God. all that man wanted of me was to show his own beliefs for baptisms over me. It didnt change anything with my relationship to God who came to me and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in me way before I was dunked in a tank of water. And my relationship with God is the same before and after water as Jesus relationship with Him only after God came to him Himself, nothing changed at all.

Salvation is the same renewing of mind that renewed Jesus by the Spirit that God is. It is God that opens up all of His heaven in us, not water , not circuncisuons. not any rituals of man at all.

Sprinkled, Splashed or dipped? If one only knows water for salvation, then Gods salvation to be like Him and in His same image is out the window. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in you and water cannot give you that at all.

 

[GodsGrace]

Did the thief on the cross get baptized in water to be saved with Jesus to be in his paradise?
What about Adam who came to Gods heaven to be like Him in Gen3;22, what about Abrahm God didnt save him ? What about Moses, God didnt save him and didnt send him out to be Gods witness? What about Mary. Didnt the very same Spirit of God come to her who came to Jesus? Were none of these saved because of water?

I was saved by God several years before a man baptized me in water and the only reason I did that was to appease the preachers mind. I went into the water a saved son of God and came out of the water a wet son of God. all that man wanted of me was to show his own beliefs for baptisms over me. It didnt change anything with my relationship to God who came to me and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in me way before I was dunked in a tank of water. And my relationship with God is the same before and after water as Jesus relationship with Him only after God came to him Himself, nothing changed at all.

Salvation is the same renewing of mind that renewed Jesus by the Spirit that God is. It is God that opens up all of His heaven in us, not water , not circuncisuons. not any rituals of man at all.

Sprinkled, Splashed or dipped? If one only knows water for salvation, then Gods salvation to be like Him and in His same image is out the window. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in you and water cannot give you that at all.

Hi Gary Mac
I'm not going to debate baptism here...
Just have a question.
Jesus DID say that we are to be baptized...
Matthew 28:19

I also believe that you were saved before you were ever baptized.
But my question is:
WHY do you suppose Jesus said to be baptized?
Could it be only as an outer sign of an inner condition?
Why would it be so important for OTHERS to know of our condition if our lives expose it anyway?

 

[Gary Mac]

Hi Gary Mac
I'm not going to debate baptism here...
Just have a question.
Jesus DID say that we are to be baptized...
Matthew 28:19

I also believe that you were saved before you were ever baptized.
But my question is:
WHY do you suppose Jesus said to be baptized?

The question is who does the baptizing, Man in water, or God by His own Spirit. Which do you say has the effect? Did Water open all of Gods heaven to Jesus or did God Himself by the Spirit that He is?

As for me, God opened up who He is, I didnt even know mans baptisms.

Could it be only as an outer sign of an inner condition?

I suppose it could, or is it a deliberate intent to hold man to a belief for enterprise? If a particular system can get people to obey their rules they can control them by law. Jesus broke away from this when God Himself came and gave him a new understanding for who God is and His kingdom in Matt 3:16. After that baptisms such as man rules for splashed, sprinkled or dunked, and what we should or should not eat, animal sacrifices, cercumcisions, all dissipate when God opens up the simplicity for who He is that of Love and man is the recipient of.

Why would it be so important for OTHERS to know of our condition if our lives expose it anyway?

For those who are of Love it isnt about exposing who we are or are not, it is about going out and giving of self to actually help those who just need a friend that loves them unconditionally;;y no matter how bad or how good they are, if they need help those who are ganuinally of Love that god is, doe not count it as praise for doing what Love will lead us to do without merit.

To stand in an assemble of believers in what ever they believe and look noble toward man as some kind of saint, is not the way of Love, it is just the opposite. When Jesus did a certain thing, He didnt flaunt his accomplishment, he simple said go and tell no one then disaster though the crowd undetected. Love doesn't cont us as holy, Love makes us holy.

At one point in my walk I was that three piece suit guy with this big ole KJV Bible following all the laws assigned to a religion that everyone could look up as a holy man of God, until God Himself came and shut that image down and made me realize I had it all wrong.

The same thing happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16; He was reverend by the Jews as rabbi, teacher of their laws even from a vey young age, but the day God said no this is my way, everything changed in that man, he became a different person obvious in the before and afters Matt 3:16. The very ones who once reverend him as a great rabbi, are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme when his life changed from the law to actually being, becoming, what the law is about.

That same message is issued to every person seeking Gods heaven, and when one actually realizes that Jesus was spot on when he said the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is with you, then just as with Jesus that whole new heaven and earth is opened in us. It is who we become, not what we try and be by law. In trying to follow the law one will fail miserably every time. But too actually become what the law says is a life in the Father of it.

 

[nedsk]

Did the thief on the cross get baptized in water to be saved with Jesus to be in his paradise?
What about Adam who came to Gods heaven to be like Him in Gen3;22, what about Abrahm God didnt save him ? What about Moses, God didnt save him and didnt send him out to be Gods witness? What about Mary. Didnt the very same Spirit of God come to her who came to Jesus? Were none of these saved because of water?

I was saved by God several years before a man baptized me in water and the only reason I did that was to appease the preachers mind. I went into the water a saved son of God and came out of the water a wet son of God. all that man wanted of me was to show his own beliefs for baptisms over me. It didnt change anything with my relationship to God who came to me and opened up who He is and all of His heaven in me way before I was dunked in a tank of water. And my relationship with God is the same before and after water as Jesus relationship with Him only after God came to him Himself, nothing changed at all.

Salvation is the same renewing of mind that renewed Jesus by the Spirit that God is. It is God that opens up all of His heaven in us, not water , not circuncisuons. not any rituals of man at all.

Sprinkled, Splashed or dipped? If one only knows water for salvation, then Gods salvation to be like Him and in His same image is out the window. Salvation is Gods Spirit manifest in you and water cannot give you that at all.

Salvation belongs to God and he can do what he likes with it just like the vineyard master who pays a full days wage to those who worked only the last hour of the day. ade you one of the complainers? To who much is given much will be expected. Nice try though. Besides mark 16:16 whoever is baptized and believes will be saved but those that don't believe shall be damned. Oops

 

[Fred J]

The verse does not say that Jesus was "born of water" when He was baptized by John.

It said that John Baptized Him.
That's it.

The reality is........ Jesus was not "born again"...... as He was not a sinner needing it.
He was water baptized to "fulfill all the law".......not for his Sins, as He was SINLESS when He was water baptized.

Instead of putting a 'spin' on things, where is the scripture to support your version, that Jesus was water baptized to fulfill the law??

Or in other words, where in the Law is written about water baptism in the river Jordon like the New Testament??

'Water baptism' in part is the fulfillment of the Gospel and New Testament, the New Covenant GOD is making with the Israelites, and then Gentiles.

And mind you, 'born again' is a different subject according to John 3:3, and Jesus need not fulfill that since He's the Word of GOD.

By the Law Jesus is indeed 'sinless', but He grew up among sinners, had contact with them and their things till the age of 30.

As by the Law He's 'defiled' as a Jewish man, thus by Law there are ceremony of water cleansing to make oneself clean only for the day besides the next.

At the age of 30, scripturally, Jesus is going to the river Jordon and wanting John the Baptist to 'water baptize' Him

Even when John forbid he's unworthiness to baptize Jesus, but Jesus answered him that, this is what GOD wants.

So if GOD wants Jesus Himself to be likewise 'born of water' in the river Jordon, who are you 'heretics' to contradict GOD??

It's very disturbing and unrest, when the 'imposters' and 'counterfeits', repeatedly 'twist' and put a 'spin' on the scripture and sound doctrine of the Holy Bible.

As unworthy servants of the scripture, we testify the truth, that Jesus Himself fulfilled John 3: 5, and we the church did 'imitate' our Master the same way.

PART ONE;

Matthew 3:
16. And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: ......................

Had to put it in bold letters since GodsGrace and you are probably 'shortsighted', very helpful.

Jesus was baptized!

What was He baptized with?

Water!

In the river Jordon!

That is by wisdom given us, from the deeper part of the water, 'Jesus went up straightway out of the water'.

Conclusion, 'water baptism' scripturally according to Jesus' word is, 'born of water' in John 3:5.

PART TWO;

Matthew 3:
16. ............................: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and he saw the Spirit of GOD descending like a dove, and lighting upon Him:

Next conclusion, 'and of the Holy Ghost', also according to Jesus' word in John 3:5.

Therefore, if this is not sufficient enough according to the Word of GOD, then go along with the heretic's versions.

No thank you.

 

[Fred J]

It might be heretical Fred.
But many theologians DO accept the water as signifying physical birth.
I understand that some doctrine is heretical...
not sure this would be one of them.
More a misundertanding?

Please read my reply to Behold since you 'like' his reply, thank you.

 

[Fred J]

Fred,,,
On threads that I begin,,,,I ask that members treat each other with respect...
as anyone should do - especially we Christians.

Not nice to call someone that does not agree with you a liar,,,shortsighted, blunt, etc.

Please refrain from doing this and stick to the topic,
which I really do have a problem with.

Thanks!

If you and him having something going on in whatever manner, keep it to yourselves.

He's answering your post and you're answering his', in what manner is that right ganging up on someone?

JohnDB said repeatedly, my replies here in testimony is coming from the 'pulpit' sermons of the church.

That's a 'lie', for my scripture quotes in support and doctrines in testimony comes from the Holy Bible, (2Timothy3:16&17)

Therefore JohDB is a 'liar' in correction, but he's 'folly' in persistence to prove me wrong, what an 'irony'?

And on top of it you support such a 'lie' spoken of me and correcting me for truthfully correcting him a 'liar'?

Likewise, i have every right to defend my born again spirit faith, the scripture and the doctrine, i stand for and represent.

True born again and discipled by the Holy Bible readers, beware of as the Bible calls them, 'imposters' and 'counterfeits'.

Since Jesus our Master cautioned us saying, "You will know them by their fruit."

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

 

[Fred J]

"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of GOD."

In other words Jesus is saying, in order to enter into the Kingdom of GOD a man must be born of water and of the Spirit.

Is Jesus referring to the natural water birth in the mother's womb or natural water baptism rebirth?

Naturally every man in the kingdom of man do born from the water bag in the mother's womb.

Jesus who is wise, does He have to remind man that in justification, or unless there were 'alien' around and they are exempted?

Apparently Jesus is referring to a 'new birth', now into the Kingdom of GOD, that does not include the natural birth in the kingdom of man.

Shalom in the name of Lord Jesus Christ

 

[Gary Mac]

Salvation belongs to God and he can do what he likes with it just like the vineyard master who pays a full days wage to those who worked only the last hour of the day.

Salvation belongs to you, your salvation is in your hands not Gods He already has laid out His stipulations for you to accept or reject to be like Him and in His same Image of Love that God is. God gives it as a gift and is entirely up to you whether you take His gift of Love to be your own disposition in which His salvation away from self ideas for a salvation is.

ade you one of the complainers?

Complainer? I rejoice in having Gods perfections of Love as my own salvation given by God Himself.

To who much is given much will be expected.

Exactly walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt 5;48. Same signs follow you that followed Jesus in the Father.

Nice try though.

Nice try? Trying to be saved will get you nowhere, one has to take Gods salvation as your own disposition and run with it. It is a gift, not something you earn by trying to be holy.

Besides mark 16:16 whoever is baptized and believes will be saved but those that don't believe shall be damned. Oops

Amen, and either God has baptized you with His Spirit as He did Jesus in Matt 3:16 aside from the water man dunking you in as common to man, or He has not baptized you Himself by the Spirit that He is as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16and open in you who He is and all of His heaven as He did in Jesus

Gods baptism is of His Holy Spirit. Water is not Holy Spirit, LOl. Your elementary education from man is lacking the maturity that only Gods teachings Himself by the Holy Spirit that He is to be your own disposition of spirt, or mind Spirit is referred to. Knowledge from God not from man in a water tank.

 

[nedsk]

Salvation belongs to you, your salvation is in your hands not Gods He already has laid out His stipulations for you to accept or reject to be like Him and in His same Image of Love that God is. God gives it as a gift and is entirely up to you whether you take His gift of Love to be your own disposition in which His salvation away from self ideas for a salvation is.




Complainer? I rejoice in having Gods perfections of Love as my own salvation given by God Himself.


Exactly walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt 5;48. Same signs follow you that followed Jesus in the Father.


Nice try? Trying to be saved will get you nowhere, one has to take Gods salvation as your own disposition and run with it. It is a gift, not something you earn by trying to be holy.

Amen, and either God has baptized you with His Spirit as He did Jesus in Matt 3:16 aside from the water man dunking you in as common to man, or He has not baptized you Himself by the Spirit that He is as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16and open in you who He is and all of His heaven as He did in Jesus

Gods baptism is of His Holy Spirit. Water is not Holy Spirit, LOl. Your elementary education from man is lacking the maturity that only Gods teachings Himself by the Holy Spirit that He is to be your own disposition of spirt, or mind Spirit is referred to. Knowledge from God not from man in a water tank.

 

[nedsk]

Salvation belongs to you, your salvation is in your hands not Gods He already has laid out His stipulations for you to accept or reject to be like Him and in His same Image of Love that God is. God gives it as a gift and is entirely up to you whether you take His gift of Love to be your own disposition in which His salvation away from self ideas for a salvation is.




Complainer? I rejoice in having Gods perfections of Love as my own salvation given by God Himself.


Exactly walk as He walks in His same light, perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect Matt 5;48. Same signs follow you that followed Jesus in the Father.


Nice try? Trying to be saved will get you nowhere, one has to take Gods salvation as your own disposition and run with it. It is a gift, not something you earn by trying to be holy.

Amen, and either God has baptized you with His Spirit as He did Jesus in Matt 3:16 aside from the water man dunking you in as common to man, or He has not baptized you Himself by the Spirit that He is as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16and open in you who He is and all of His heaven as He did in Jesus

Gods baptism is of His Holy Spirit. Water is not Holy Spirit, LOl. Your elementary education from man is lacking the maturity that only Gods teachings Himself by the Holy Spirit that He is to be your own disposition of spirt, or mind Spirit is referred to. Knowledge from God not from man in a water tank.

Where did I say water was the holy spirit? Show where I did. It works better if you pay attention

Chapter 18
Become Like Little Children. 1 At that time, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 Then Jesus beckoned a child to come to him, placed it in their midst, 3 and said, “Amen, I say to you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself and becomes like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

 

[GodsGrace]

If you and him having something going on in whatever manner, keep it to yourselves.

He's answering your post and you're answering his', in what manner is that right ganging up on someone?

JohnDB said repeatedly, my replies here in testimony is coming from the 'pulpit' sermons of the church.

That's a 'lie', for my scripture quotes in support and doctrines in testimony comes from the Holy Bible, (2Timothy3:16&17)

Therefore JohDB is a 'liar' in correction, but he's 'folly' in persistence to prove me wrong, what an 'irony'?

And on top of it you support such a 'lie' spoken of me and correcting me for truthfully correcting him a 'liar'?

Likewise, i have every right to defend my born again spirit faith, the scripture and the doctrine, i stand for and represent.

True born again and discipled by the Holy Bible readers, beware of as the Bible calls them, 'imposters' and 'counterfeits'.

Since Jesus our Master cautioned us saying, "You will know them by their fruit."

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

You go right ahead and defend your position.
Insulting other Christians should not be part of the defense.
YOU just stated "you will know them by their fruit".
Indeed.
Let our fruit be in loving kindness...even to those with whom we do not agree.

 

[Gary Mac]

Where did I say water was the holy spirit? Show where I did. It works better if you pay attention

You didnt say that at all. Most say water saves them. You might pay better attention.

Chapter 18
Become Like Little Children. 1 At that time, the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 Then Jesus beckoned a child to come to him, placed it in their midst, 3 and said, “Amen, I say to you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whoever humbles himself and becomes like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

A little child isnt born with knowledge he learns it from his surroundings and teachers as in parents, and train a child in the way he shall go and when he is old he will not part from that, and that goes for Good or bad.

If one learns from as ideas for salvation from mans beliefs, or one learns from God Himself His ways is not the same knowledge at all. It is very difficult for one to change one who is old who has been taught all his life the beliefs of man, to change and receive from God Himself, such as in baptisms by man, or by God, most look to mans ways for salvation they they ever do of God in His ways to be like Him and in His same image for His salvation. Jesus learned that difference in Matt 3:16.

 

[nedsk]

You didnt say that at all. Most say water saves them. You might pay better attention.

A little child isnt born with knowledge he learns it from his surroundings and teachers as in parents, and train a child in the way he shall go and when he is old he will not part from that, and that goes for Good or bad.

If one learns from as ideas for salvation from mans beliefs, or one learns from God Himself His ways is not the same knowledge at all. It is very difficult for one to change one who is old who has been taught all his life the beliefs of man, to change and receive from God Himself, such as in baptisms by man, or by God, most look to mans ways for salvation they they ever do of God in His ways to be like Him and in His same image for His salvation. Jesus learned that difference in Matt 3:16.

Faith like.a.child. that's not me saying it.

No baptism no salvation. It's simple.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please read my reply to Behold since you 'like' his reply, thank you.

Heretical means that a teaching is far removed from what mainline Christianity teaches.
The early church believed that the Water is baptism.
Those that were taught by the Apostles understood the water in John 3.5 to be baptismal water.

So the like was because the post was correct.
I tended to think that the water was physical birth...
I'm beginning to understand that it might, indeed, be baptism.

If you care to discuss this, I'd be happy - this is why I began this thread...
I really don't care to discuss other members....this would be incorrect.

 

[JohnDB]

I like the Messianic Jews....
They so understand Hebrew/Aramaic nuances better than Americans.



Yoḥanan (John) 3:3 TS2009
[3] יהושע answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he is unable to see the reign of Elohim.”

Yoḥanan (John) 3:3 (TS2009) - יהושע answered and said to him, “Tr | YouVersion

יהושע answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born from above, he is unable to see the reign of Elohim.”

bible.com

Yoḥanan (John) 3:5 TS2009
[5] יהושע answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he is unable to enter into the reign of Elohim.

Yoḥanan (John) 3:5 יהושע answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he is unable to enter into the reign of Elohim. | The Scriptures 2009 (TS2009) | Download The Bible App Now

יהושע answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he is unable to enter into the reign of Elohim.

bible.com

 

[GodsGrace]

The question is who does the baptizing, Man in water, or God by His own Spirit. Which do you say has the effect? Did Water open all of Gods heaven to Jesus or did God Himself by the Spirit that He is?

God does the baptizing, of course.
What good would it be IF man did the dipping?
It would mean nothing.

As for me, God opened up who He is, I didnt even know mans baptisms.

Jesus said to baptize....not a man.
John baptized for the forgiveness of sins...to prepare the way of the Lord.
§To prepare the hearts of those that wanted to repent.

I suppose it could, or is it a deliberate intent to hold man to a belief for enterprise? If a particular system can get people to obey their rules they can control them by law. Jesus broke away from this when God Himself came and gave him a new understanding for who God is and His kingdom in Matt 3:16.

What do you mean "when God Himself gave Him (Jesus) a new understanding for who God is"...
Isn't Jesus God?
He needed a NEW understanding of God?

Matthew 3.16-17
16After being baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove and lighting on Him,
17and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

And...
If Jesus instructed the Apostles to baptize...
HOW is that man trying to control by law??

After that baptisms such as man rules for splashed, sprinkled or dunked, and what we should or should not eat, animal sacrifices, cercumcisions, all dissipate when God opens up the simplicity for who He is that of Love and man is the recipient of.

I agree.
But you haven't yet replied as to WHY Jesus commanded that nations be taught and baptized.

For those who are of Love it isnt about exposing who we are or are not, it is about going out and giving of self to actually help those who just need a friend that loves them unconditionally;;y no matter how bad or how good they are, if they need help those who are ganuinally of Love that god is, doe not count it as praise for doing what Love will lead us to do without merit.

Agreed.
I do want to say that if we profess to be Christian...and others know it...then it's a good idea to ACT like a Christian.
Jesus said to light our light shine to bring glory to God.

To stand in an assemble of believers in what ever they believe and look noble toward man as some kind of saint, is not the way of Love, it is just the opposite. When Jesus did a certain thing, He didnt flaunt his accomplishment, he simple said go and tell no one then disaster though the crowd undetected. Love doesn't cont us as holy, Love makes us holy.

Agreed.

At one point in my walk I was that three piece suit guy with this big ole KJV Bible following all the laws assigned to a religion that everyone could look up as a holy man of God, until God Himself came and shut that image down and made me realize I had it all wrong.

Pride is the root of all sin.
Egoism comes in a close second.
We, at the least, need to be aware of this and discourage it in ourselves.

The same thing happened in Jesus in Matt 3:16; He was reverend by the Jews as rabbi, teacher of their laws even from a vey young age, but the day God said no this is my way, everything changed in that man, he became a different person obvious in the before and afters Matt 3:16. The very ones who once reverend him as a great rabbi, are the very ones who had him crucified for blaspheme when his life changed from the law to actually being, becoming, what the law is about.

OK
I do hope you believe that Jesus is God.
You're saying Jesus became a different person.
Did He?
I think He was always the same.
(teaching in the temple when He was only 12).

That same message is issued to every person seeking Gods heaven, and when one actually realizes that Jesus was spot on when he said the kingdom of God doesnt come with observation, it is with you, then just as with Jesus that whole new heaven and earth is opened in us. It is who we become, not what we try and be by law. In trying to follow the law one will fail miserably every time. But too actually become what the law says is a life in the Father of it.

Important words by you: IT IS WHO WE BECOME.

That says it all.
There are some on here, and other forums, that state that behavior is either not important or will not save us.
I believe that it will due to your words....it is who we BECOME.
We are to become more and more like Jesus....sanctification.
The Law kills but the spirit gives life.

We are, however, to follow the Law of Christ.
Love God
Love your neighbor
Love yourself

This WILL lead to becoming what God would want us to be.

 

[Gary Mac]

Faith like.a.child. that's not me saying it.

You quoted it.

No baptism no salvation. It's simple.

Amen, very simple -- only complicated for those who only go as far as man trying to save them in water.

Either God has come to the individual and gave His same Spirit of mind as He did in Jesus to be of the same mind anointed of God, or He has not, saving the individual from their own ways for salvation to adhere to His and walk as He walks in it, perfect even as your Farther in heaven is perfect. That is Gods salvation. The Father in you and you in the Father as one. John 17. Your godhead body, the head, mind, of your body.