Jesus is God

[rebuilder 454]

a lot of trins have taken the term son of the Most High and redefined it to mean Most High. thats why its confusing

That is watchtower lingo.

They are mental, and correct God in their "superior" logic.

They have no business in a spiritual book written by a Spirit, to Holy Ghost baptised men.

Logic is at odds with heaven.
Logic from one dimensional men, never able to unpack spiritual mysteries.

 

[GodsGrace]

The Old Testament was very harsh in places, and although Jesus said he didn't come to change the Law, he did demonstrate that we should interpret it in a more compassionate way, like when he rescued an adulteress from a mob who wanted to stone her under the old Law-

The early Christians got it right-
"The law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17)
"The covenant of which Jesus is mediator is superior to the old one" (Heb 8:6)
"Jesus saved you from the empty way of life handed you by your forefathers" (1 Pet 1:18 )
"We serve in the new way of the spirit, not in the old way of the written code" (Rom 7:6)
"The epistle of Christ, written not in stone, but in the heart" (2 Cor 3:3)
"The veil covers the old covenant, but is removed by Jesus" (2 Cor 3:12)
"In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent." (Acts 17:30)

If I knew what your point is,,,
I'd be able to reply.

You post scripture.
I agree 100% with scripture.

You say Jesus was compassionate.

He did tell the adultress woman to sin no more.

John 8:11
11She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more.”]




He did tell another man that something worse could befall him.

John 5:14
14Afterward Jesus found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.”

 

[jaybird]

Real intelligent reply jaybird.

Go listen to Lennon preach how the world would be better without God.
It's late and you're not an honest person or you would have given a real reply and I'd have continued with why Jesus claimed to be God.

Good night.

congrats on successfully dodging that question 3 times in a row.
i dont agree with what Lennon said, i guess it could be worse, like the trinity heretic hunters that sent thousands to their death for not accepting something thats not even in the bible.

 

[jaybird]

That is watchtower lingo.

They are mental, and correct God in their "superior" logic.

They have no business in a spiritual book written by a Spirit, to Holy Ghost baptised men.

Logic is at odds with heaven.
Logic from one dimensional men, never able to unpack spiritual mysteries.

but is it true? i guess thats irrelevant if we can successfully pull off the guilt by association tactic. i am just thankful i dont have to resort to such shallow schemes. i couldnt live with such shame.

 

[GodsGrace]

congrats on successfully dodging that question 3 times in a row.
i dont agree with what Lennon said, i guess it could be worse, like the trinity heretic hunters that sent thousands to their death for not accepting something thats not even in the bible.

jaybird....
I assure you that I do NOT dodge any question.
Certainly not any question that YOU might have.

I posted a whole page to you
TO WHICH YOU DID NOT REPLY.
If you call what you wrote back a reply...
well, this is why I said I would no longer converse with you.

IF you wish to continue, YOU will have to reply to the questions I asked YOU
in post no. 175......
to which you have not replied....



Here is the question and verses pertaining thereof:




John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh,


WHO or WHAT became flesh??

 

[David in NJ]

You're right that Jesus is fully God, and that truth is non-negotiable. But a few parts of what you said go beyond what the Bible actually teaches.

First, while it’s common to say Jesus has a “dual nature,” the Bible doesn’t use that kind of wording. It clearly tells us He is both God and man (John 1:1, John 1:14, Colossians 2:9), but it doesn’t explain it in philosophical terms. We just need to stick with what’s written and not go beyond that (1 Corinthians 4:6).

Second, the idea that Jesus was “generated from eternity into time” is not in Scripture. Jesus wasn’t created or produced. He is eternal. He’s always existed as God (Micah 5:2, John 1:1). Saying He was “generated” can confuse people and make it sound like He had a beginning, which would be false.

Also, calling God a “composite unity” is human language, not Bible language. Scripture says God is one (Deuteronomy 6:4), and it shows the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit working together as one God (Matthew 28:19), but it doesn’t label Him with philosophical terms.

So while you’re right to affirm Jesus’ deity, it’s important we use the words God gave us in His Word, not ideas added later by creeds or traditions. The Bible is clear and complete.

Please review post 4 from @Randy Kluth

Elohim, in fact is a Unity of THREE

Second, the idea that Jesus was “generated from eternity into time” is not in Scripture. Jesus wasn’t created or produced. He is eternal. He’s always existed as God (Micah 5:2, John 1:1). Saying He was “generated” can confuse people and make it sound like He had a beginning, which would be false.

You are 100% CORRECT here

I strongly disagree with you. We must translate what the Bible says into the language of common people, who express things in their own words. I could quote the Bible in Greek or Hebrew to them, and they wouldn't get a word! Even in English it is advisable to read commentaries, lexicons, and Concordances, to better understand the background and meaning of what is being said.

The words and phrases I use come from historical discussions and are dignified by scholarly discourse on the subject. If you are disinteerested, just read your Bible. Don't read anything else. And don't even consider your own words worth listening to, unless, of course, you're quoting Scriptures.

I'm being a bit facetious here. I do recognize your point that we should not go beyond firm boundaries. But the Creeds are those firm boundaries--not just Scriptures. They are discussions of what the Bible teaches, so that the Church at large can know how it should be interpreted or understood. This is also what the Levites did, in giving sense to the reading of the Scriptures.

Ezra 8.8 They read from the Book of the Law of God, making it clear and giving the meaning so that the people understood what was being read.

Creeds are ok but some are not scripturally accurate.

Best to allow the Holy Scriptures to be the Call of God and never adding or taking away = Proverbs 30:5-6

 

[Randy Kluth]

Please review post 4 from @Randy Kluth

Elohim, in fact is a Unity of THREE


You are 100% CORRECT here

Creeds are ok but some are not scripturally accurate.

Best to allow the Holy Scriptures to be the Call of God and never adding or taking away = Proverbs 30:5-6

Yes, to be fair, there were different creeds that contradicted one another. So, one cannot just draw upon creeds without qualification.

I don't even agree with perfect precision every creed. It is questionable what is being said sometimes, since words mean different things to different people, depending on their environment.

At the same time it should be understood that the creeds were an attempt to state Scriptural truth in a way that renders it a litmus test. Some things in Scripture are fundamental to being a genuine and faithful Christian. Thanks!

 

[Gary Mac]

Another member also posted this.
Jesus came here to reveal God Father to mankind.
Jesus is following the command of God Father.
If you could explain the problem better, it would be helpful.

I cant explain it better than Jesus did. All I did was quote his explanation about it. But most try to do it better than Jesus did for sure.

Thanks for a good supporting verse...
Yes. Agreed. Believing in God Father and believing in God Son is exactly the same....
the person that sees Jesus sees God who sent Him because they are one and the same BEING.

Just as we all are who are His sons and nd daughters. Jesus prayed to his God for us to be the same in the Father as he was in the Father in John 17.

John 7:14-18
14But when it was now the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and began to teach.
15The Jews then were astonished, saying, “How has this man become learned, having never been educated?”
16So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.
17“If anyone is willing to do His will, he will know of the teaching, whether it is of God or whether I speak from Myself.
18“He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.

Yes. Jesus came to reveal the Father...to teach us what the Father wants us to know.

Actually Jesus came to lead us to the Father that we may hear from God ourselves.

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Jesus was not teaching doctrine that HE had invented....but the teachings of the Father.
Jesus was not educated by man...but of the Father...verse 15

Jesus was very educated in th laws of the Jews and was reverend for his knowldge of their laws and taught it even from a young age of 12. But he received another education from God Himself in Matt 3:16. That is the one that he settled in.

Who will be the judge of mankind?
Only God can judge man.

And man judges himself, Either you are like the Father of it and in His sam image and walk as He walks in it, or you do not, and every man knows if he is perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as is commanded of us all in Matt 5:48.

Since Jesus will be judging mankind...He must surely be God.

It isnt up to Jesus to judge anyone, God judged Jesus in his actions and stated, this is my son in whom I am well pleased. He judges us all by our own actions if we walk as He walks in His same light or not, and every man knows very will if they do or not. We are our own judge in that.

John 5:22
22For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,

That is exactly what I just stated. Either you are His son or you are not.

2 Timothy 4:1
1I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead,

I do not follow Timothy I follow Jesus in who he said he was in God and could do noting at all without God who sent him. Jesus cant Jude you, he can try and teach you.

2 Corinthians 5:10
10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body,

Amen and man sits in that judgment this very day. Either you are that person who is anointed of God as Jesus was anointed of God, Christ in you, or you are not.

and more...

WHEN did Jesus SEE the FATHER DO something???

First time was in Matt 3:16. Before that he was of the laws of the Jewish beliefs for a god instead.

Jesus came down from heaven.

No God came down from heaven and entered Jesus in Matt 3:16.

Has any MAN COME DOWN from heaven? No all man can do is be His heaven, His kingdom, the place God resides, proven by Jesus in Like 17:20-21, the kingdom of God, heaven, does not come with observation, it is with you. Not very many believe Jesus in that do they? They look for a physical kingdom they can observe instead dont they?

Yes Sir.
This is certainly true.

Please read all of chapter 16....
Verse 3 states that neither the Father, nor Jesus were known. Jesus puts Himself on the same par with Father.

God puts us all on His same par who becomes like Him to know the difference between a carnal mind of flesh and a spiritual mind of Love that God is. For God is Love and man is the pace He resides, no matter what these carnal minds say about a god. Jesus had it right in Luke 17:20-21.

Verse 7 states that Jesus will send THE HELPER. So now we have FATHER, SON, HOLY SPIRIT.

It is the same helper who came to Jesus in Matt 3:16 that comes to us all who will receive Him.

The HELPER will be sent.
Who will convict the world.

Is sent to us all who has received Him in us. Born again wit that same renewing of mind that Jesus received from the Helper in Matt 3:16.

That's the Trinity right there.

Yes. a man made doctrine that excludes themselves from being that same child of God as Jesus was His son.

Yes. Right. Just explained above.
Thanks for helping me to explain the Trinity.

You are welcome.

Continued in next post.

 

[Gary Mac]

Not relevant, unless you could explain how.
We know that the world will not receive the Holy Spirit.

Amen, that is why the world has made their god three persons, in which God is not a person at all but only resides in the persons.

You're getting desperate Gary.
This is irrelevant unless you could explain how it has anything to do with the divinity of Jesus.

If receiving from God the same things as Jesus received from Him is in desperation, then yes I agree I was desperate to receive the same. It is Gods salvation in man.

You think that YOU and I are one
just as Father and Jesus are one?

Only if you have received from God the same as Jesus did are we one in Him.

We would, at the very least, be agreeing with each just as Jesus and Father agree, by the very scripture
YOU have posted above.

Yes the very same as Jesus was in in the Father, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, same mind be in us who was in Christ Jesus.

I don't respond to what you think.
Please post scripture for any point you wish to make.

I respond to what people thing by quoting Jesus himself in his thoughts. And here is his thoughts for us to read quoted of him.

His thoughts are my thoughts exactly by identification with the same God in me that he identified himself with proven in who he said he was in God below. Not very many believe him in who he said he was in God do they and cannot identify with who Jesus said he was at all. That iOS why they have made Jesus a god instead or three persons excluding themselves from being the same of God. Reject the ver One that Jesus came to sho us the way to Him to be in His same oiamge as Jesus was.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.

I spend time replying to you...
I have just ONE QUESTION,,,,,
which I hope you'll be able to answer.


John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word, no one escapes this fact if they are to learn from God Himself for God Himself is the only one who can give you His word, His truth, straight from His own mouth. Jesus received His word of truth in Matt 3:16 from God Himself just as all do who has received from God His truth for who He is in man.

You will not like that answer even though you read it in your own bible will you?

John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh,

Yes in every man who will receive from God. we =become His flesh, His home, His temple His kingdom. again Luke 17:20-21. It is supposed to be YOU!

WHO or WHAT became flesh??

Every man that ever lived who has received Gods Spirit of mind as our own spirit of mind. Born again with that same renewing of mind that Jesus received in Matt 3;16 from God Himself has become His flesh. He resides within.

And Jesus was not the first to become Gods flesh, Adam was proven in Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus 120 in nan upper room all became His flesh just as all today become His flesh who will receive Him as these did instead of your own beliefs for a god that separates from the One as Adam became His flesh.

 

[jaybird]

John 20 30-31

30Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

i always thought the end of John was interesting, they tell us Jesus did all these things, many miracles, but the main focus, according to those taught by Him, was that Jesus was the Christ, Jesus was the Son of the Most High.
no mention of Jesus being G-D, no mention of a trinity.

 

[Guestman]

Does John 10:30-36 says that Jesus is God ? The answer is a definite NO. Before I go any further, here is what the apostle Paul wrote of what a sincere person must do in order to find "the truth": "Therefore, I appeal to you by the compassions of God, brothers, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, a sacred service with your power of reason (using reason and logic to establish what is "the truth")."

"And stop being molded by this system of things (or stop following "orthodox" teaching because everyone else goes along "with the crowd"), but be transformed by making your mind over, so that you may prove ("prove", Greek dokimazo, meaning "to test, examine, scrutinize, prove") to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God."(Rom 12:1, 2, 2013 New World Translation)

Here is another scripture to consider before I go any further: "The naive person believes every word" (being gullible and accepting something as "the truth" without doing careful, unbiased research, in effect lazy), but the shrewd one ponders each step ("vetting" everything before accepting it as "the truth", doing meticulous research to establish what is "the truth", "crunching the numbers", and not being swayed by "public opinion")."(Prov 14:15)

So, now let's carefully examine John 10:30-36 that reads according to an accurate Bible: "I and the Father are one (see John 17:11, 21, in which Jesus makes clear what this means in his prayer to God: "I am no longer in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, watch over them on account of your own name, which you have given me, so that they (Jesus disciples) may be one (in unity) just as we are one (in unity or purpose)........"

"so that they may all be one (in unity), just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me") Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father (showing Jesus as not God, for God has no father, see Ps 90:2). For which of those works are you stoning me ?”

"The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself a god (and not God, no definite article of "the" , Greek ho)." Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law (at Ps 82), ‘I said: “You (the morally corrupt judges of Israel) are gods”’? If he (God, whose name is Jehovah, see Ex 6:3; Ps 83:18) called (the morally corrupt judges of Israel) ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came"

"—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified—do you say to me whom the Father sanctified (or made holy, whereby Jehovah makes his servants holy and not himself, for he is the epitome of holiness, the perfection of holiness, setting the standard for holiness, see Lev 19:2, "the source of life", Ps 36:9) and sent ("sent", Greek apostello, meaning "to send out on a mission") into the world (in which Jesus was "sent" by Jehovah God as his "chosen" one to ransom obedient mankind from sin that leads to death, see Isa 33:24; 42:1; 49:6, 7; Matt 20:28),"

" ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s (before "God" is the definite article of "the", Greek ho) Son’ (and not God, see John 3:16 that says: "For (Jehovah) God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son ("the beginning of the creation by God", Rev 3:14; "the firstborn of all creation", Col 1:15), so that everyone exercising faith in him (as Jehovah's channel for salvation, see John 11:25; 14:6) might not be destroyed but have everlasting life") ?"(2013 New World Translation)

So, who uses their "power of reason" to ascertain "the truth" and not let "the crowd" sway them when the evidence points to a "different conclusion" ? Who ' proves to themselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of Jehovah God ' ? Answer: very few, unwilling to "swim upstream" against "public opinion".

 

[David Lamb]

Amen, that is why the world has made their god three persons, in which God is not a person at all but only resides in the persons.

That is not so at all. People who believe in the Trinity do not believe that God only resides in the three "persons." They believe that God exists as three "Persons." For example, the apostle John writes of the Son, Whom he refers to as the Word, like this:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with
God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. (John 1)

 

[Gary Mac]

John 20 30-31

30Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

i always thought the end of John was interesting, they tell us Jesus did all these things, many miracles, but the main focus, according to those taught by Him, was that Jesus was the Christ, Jesus was the Son of the Most High.
no mention of Jesus being G-D, no mention of a trinity.

Yes and Christ, Christos, simply means to be anointed of Gods same Spirit of mind. Christ in you.

Christ comes from the Greek word χριστός (chrīstós), meaning "anointed one". The word is derived from the Greek verb χρίω (chrī́ō), meaning "to anoint." In the Greek Septuagint, χριστός was a semantic loan used to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Mašíaḥ, messiah), meaning "[one who is] anointed".

Paul came up with that nickname for Christos as Christ at Antioch, before that in the old we who are anointed of Gods same Spirit of mind were referred to as Christos, saints.

And the term saint is derived from the Latin word sanctus, meaning "holy" or "consecrated." This is, in turn, a direct translation of the Greek word "άγιος" (hagios), which also means "holy." In its original scriptural usage it simply means "holy" or "sanctified."

 

[Randy Kluth]

John 20 30-31

30Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

i always thought the end of John was interesting, they tell us Jesus did all these things, many miracles, but the main focus, according to those taught by Him, was that Jesus was the Christ, Jesus was the Son of the Most High.
no mention of Jesus being G-D, no mention of a trinity.

Yes, the Deity of Jesus consists of his being God in the form of a man, who is called the "Son of God." In other words, calling him the "Son of God" is, in fact, a way of calling him "God." It's just that he is God in a certain form, in the human form. So, calling him the "Son of God" enables him to be seen as God in that specific human form, instead of confusing him with God in His preexistent form before He became human.

These are technicalities that are seen when modalism began to confuse the differences between God in His preexistence and God in His various revealed forms. The Persons of the Deity must not be confused while at the same time maintaining the Deity of these Divine Persons. It must be a formula because it would require us being God in order to understand these distinctions of Deity.

 

[Gary Mac]

Yes, the Deity of Jesus consists of his being God in the form of a man, who is called the "Son of God." In other words, calling him the "Son of God" is, in fact, a way of calling him "God." It's just that he is God in a certain form, in the human form. So, calling him the "Son of God" enables him to be seen as God in that specific human form, instead of confusing him with God in His preexistent form before He became human.

These are technicalities that are seen when modalism began to confuse the differences between God in His preexistence and God in His various revealed forms. The Persons of the Deity must not be confused while at the same time maintaining the Deity of these Divine Persons. It must be a formula because it would require us being God in order to understand these distinctions of Deity.

Well what does that make you since he said you will do even greater works than he? Does that make you a greater god than him?

Do you even do any of the works as Jesus did as a child of God, His son, sense the same signs follow you as is supposed to and walk in it as he walks in it?

You really do not know who Jesus was in the Father, for if you did you would know he wasnt God and you would be just as he was in the Father with the same signs follow you and obviously you outwardly reject Jesus and refuse to be that person of Christ who is anointed of and for these same signs follow you who followed Jesus.

As long as flesh is your god, you never will know the kingdom of God that is Spirit and is supposed to be within you.

 

[GodsGrace]

Amen, that is why the world has made their god three persons, in which God is not a person at all but only resides in the persons.


If receiving from God the same things as Jesus received from Him is in desperation, then yes I agree I was desperate to receive the same. It is Gods salvation in man.


Only if you have received from God the same as Jesus did are we one in Him.



Yes the very same as Jesus was in in the Father, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect, same mind be in us who was in Christ Jesus.

I respond to what people thing by quoting Jesus himself in his thoughts. And here is his thoughts for us to read quoted of him.

His thoughts are my thoughts exactly by identification with the same God in me that he identified himself with proven in who he said he was in God below. Not very many believe him in who he said he was in God do they and cannot identify with who Jesus said he was at all. That iOS why they have made Jesus a god instead or three persons excluding themselves from being the same of God. Reject the ver One that Jesus came to sho us the way to Him to be in His same oiamge as Jesus was.

John 12:49: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 12:44-45. who believes in me, does not believe in me but in Him who sent me. He who sees me sees Him who sent me.

John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”

John 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

John 17:2-21, the kingdom of God doesnt come withj observation, it is withn you

John 16:23. And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

John 14:16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Matt 11:25. At that time Jesus declared, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because You have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children.

John 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one.





In the beginning of every mans salvation is the word, no one escapes this fact if they are to learn from God Himself for God Himself is the only one who can give you His word, His truth, straight from His own mouth. Jesus received His word of truth in Matt 3:16 from God Himself just as all do who has received from God His truth for who He is in man.

You will not like that answer even though you read it in your own bible will you?


Yes in every man who will receive from God. we =become His flesh, His home, His temple His kingdom. again Luke 17:20-21. It is supposed to be YOU!


Every man that ever lived who has received Gods Spirit of mind as our own spirit of mind. Born again with that same renewing of mind that Jesus received in Matt 3;16 from God Himself has become His flesh. He resides within.

And Jesus was not the first to become Gods flesh, Adam was proven in Gen 3;22, Abraham, Moses, Mary, Jesus 120 in nan upper room all became His flesh just as all today become His flesh who will receive Him as these did instead of your own beliefs for a god that separates from the One as Adam became His flesh.

Gary
I replied to your verses up above.

WHY do you just keep repeating them?
Have you nothing better to offer?

Now could YOU please reply to my post?

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh


Here is the question for you:
WHAT or WHO became flesh?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Well what does that make you since he said you will do even greater works than he? Does that make you a greater god than him?

What Jesus meant, in my opinion, is that his chosen successors, ie the Apostles, would live longer and cover more territory with the good news of the Gospel than he would be able to do in perhaps 3.5 years. It had nothing to do with the quality of the miracles, or with the ability to do them quantitatively.

In fact, the Apostles could not do miracles "on demand," nor could they perform some of the miracles Jesus did, such as raising himself up from the dead. He alone was the Son of God, ie Deity. We draw upon the Divine Nature we were given, which is a supply of his spiritual life, and not identification with his Deity. We are able to share in his righteousness, but not in being the only Son of God.

Do you even do any of the works as Jesus did as a child of God, His son, sense the same signs follow you as is supposed to and walk in it as he walks in it?

We are sinners saved by grace, and are to walk in righteousness while recognizing we still have a Sin Nature. Therefore, the things we do will never be perfect--not until we are resurrected into glorified bodies.

We will never determine alone what we will do for God or for ourselves. We must confer with God and His Spirit to determine what pleases Him, even when we are given to make decisions for ourselves.

We cannot stop our own deaths--we are mortal. We cannot stop sinning entirely--we *overcome* sin. We cannot "claim" anything we want by "faith." True faith acknowledges God's supremacy over our lives and over everything. True faith recognizes Jesus as the source of our redemption--our atonement and our righteousness.

You really do not know who Jesus was in the Father, for if you did you would know he wasnt God and you would be just as he was in the Father with the same signs follow you and obviously you outwardly reject Jesus and refuse to be that person of Christ who is anointed of and for these same signs follow you who followed Jesus.

As long as flesh is your god, you never will know the kingdom of God that is Spirit and is supposed to be within you.

I think you have it backwards. If you think you have the powers of the Son of God, and that being contingent upon Jesus not being God, then I think you're making your own way, which is carnal. Don't create your own reality with Jesus not having the authority of God. If you properly see him as the Divine Son of God you will trust in him for your righteousness and not try to use his powers for yourself.

 

[Gary Mac]

Gary
I replied to your verses up above.

What was the number of the post. Sorry I must have missed it?

WHY do you just keep repeating them?
Have you nothing better to offer?

No, I really do not anything better to offer, Jesus did a good enough explaining who he was in God without my help. But if one doesnt believe what Jesus said who he was in God, then that is another matter.

Now could YOU please reply to my post?

I will indeed.

John 1:1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh


Here is the question for you:
WHAT or WHO became flesh?

I did, I became His flesh when He came to reside in me, so has all who God has come to and resides in our flesh man. And if I remember corrected I quoted Jesus in Luke 17:20-21, the kingdom of God, Which is His word, Spirit, does not come with observation it is within you. Or is supposed to be, and is supposed to flow out from you His word as living waters.

His word isnt written on stone, nor in ink that you can observe, His word comes by God Himself be in your flesh man, thus becoming flesh. It always has been that way starting in Adam proven in Gen 3;22, he was the very first to become like God to know this difference from carnal understanding and spiritual understanding. Jesus received the same word from God Himself in Matt 3:16.

Are you suggesting that you refuse to be His living word that He would be in you? That seems to be the implication here.

Sadly most on here do not believe that God came to Jesus and gave Him His word and His word that comes no other way opened all of His heaven in that man just as He did in Adam, Gen 3;22, Abraham who received Gods word from God Himself, so did Moses, so did Mary, so did 120 in an upper room all received from god Himself His word to be in them.

From your question I gather that you are not His living word yourself? But I will say as Jesus did, that you can be. Jesus described this new word, new knowledge of mind, as born again.

And Im pretty sure that I did answer your question already. I would just have to go back and search for it, but Im glad that I got to answer your question if I didnt answer it already. Perhaps you didn't like my answer the first time?

 

[Gary Mac]

What Jesus meant, in my opinion, is that his chosen successors, ie the Apostles, would live longer and cover more territory with the good news of the Gospel than he would be able to do in perhaps 3.5 years. It had nothing to do with the quality of the miracles, or with the ability to do them quantitatively.

He did not say go out and make disciples according to your opinions, he said go out and live it, that that same example of the father that he was of, walk in it as he walked in it, with the same signs following you.

In fact, the Apostles could not do miracles "on demand," nor could they perform some of the miracles Jesus did, such as raising himself up from the dead. He alone was the Son of God, ie Deity. We draw upon the Divine Nature we were given, which is a supply of his spiritual life, and not identification with his Deity. We are able to share in his righteousness, but not in being the only Son of God.

Not even Jesus could. Matt 13:58 -- 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

We are sinners saved by grace, and are to walk in righteousness while recognizing we still have a Sin Nature. Therefore, the things we do will never be perfect--not until we are resurrected into glorified bodies.

Salvation is from sin, God takes away the sins of this world, 1 John 3. And we who are born of God, born again of God it is impossible to be in sin, cannot sin because we are born of God. 1 John 3:9. Saved from sin.

Sin is separation from God and not His anointed one that is righteous, holy, pure, and without sin that God saves us from. And in that separation from His Spirit be your own is the only sin God cannot forgive you of.

We will never determine alone what we will do for God or for ourselves. We must confer with God and His Spirit to determine what pleases Him, even when we are given to make decisions for ourselves.

It has noting at all what we do for God, it has all to do with what He does in us.

We cannot stop our own deaths

Yes we can, one has to die of self beliefs for a god in order to receive from God His life as your own. Without that death there is no way He can make you alive in Him. Death to your flesh mentality in carnality and resurrected from that death a new creature in Christ that is anointed of God instead of self beliefs for a god in carnality.

--we are mortal.

Our flesh man is, or spirit man is not.

We cannot stop sinning entirely--we *overcome* sin.

It isnt up to us to stop sinning, God deals with that in redemption. And in that redemption it is impossible to be in sin, cannot sion because those who are born of God as Jesus became in Matt 3:16, born again of God with that same renewing of mind that God opens all of who He is and all of His heaven in Jesus, it is impossible to be ins sin cannot sin because we are born of God, 1 John 3:9.

We cannot "claim" anything we want by "faith."

God puts His same faith in us all who will receive Him as Jesus received from Him and walk in that same faith in the Father as Jesus walked in.

True faith acknowledges God's supremacy over our lives and over everything.

True faith is to be like the Father of it and in His same image of Spirit that He is, same mind of God be in me who was in Christ Jesus

True faith recognizes Jesus as the source of our redemption--our atonement and our righteousness.

True faith is to walk as Jesus walked in it.

I think you have it backwards.

Those of Jesus day who had him crucified thought that he had it backward as well as you do me for the very same reason.

If you think you have the powers of the Son of God, and that being contingent upon Jesus not being God, then I think you're making your own way, which is carnal.

I dont think I have the same in me as Jesus had in himself from God at all, I know that I do and walk in that same power of God as Jesus and you could to If you would repent from your own ways and actually receive from God His ways for you to be as He sent Jesus as example for who you are supposed to be in Him.

Thoughts will get you where with God. either He is come to you and open in you who He is and all of His heaven in you or He has not, and not even Jesus could escape that fact in himself proven in Matt 3:16. And you know very well if you have met God as Jesus did or not.

All that you have is your own thoughts about it as you said, and obviously refuse to receive from God Himself the same as Jesus did from God and choose your own ways for a god.

Don't create your own reality with Jesus not having the authority of God.

I cant, all I can do is repent and choose to receive from God His same Spirit of mind t walk in it as He walks in it. You also have that same choice and you are very clear that isnt going to happen in you.

If you properly see him as the Divine Son of God you will trust in him for your righteousness and not try to use his powers for yourself.

I do see him as the divine son of God, all of Gods children walk in that same divine knowledge of mind from God Himself to be in His same image that He creates man to be by His divine Spirit be our own minds. Jesus was my brother we have the same Father who is God.

We are perfect, walk in His perfect divine nature even as our Father in heaven is perfect as is perfect, commanded of you as well in Matt 5:48.

Why you reject so great a salvation is your own choice.

 

[Randy Kluth]

He did not say go out and make disciples according to your opinions, he said go out and live it, that that same example of the father that he was of, walk in it as he walked in it, with the same signs following you.

You changed the subject. We were discussing, at this point, what Jesus meant by, "You shall do greater things." Nobody was denying that Jesus preached "Live it!"

So, this is the transition point in your "evangelism?" You change the subject to a nebulus idea of "living the Gospel," and do so on the basis that Christ himself is not our Divine authority--we are? How convenient! Well then, just make up what you think Jesus meant by "Live the Gospel!"

Not even Jesus could. Matt 13:58 -- 58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.

You're a corrupter of the Gospel and of the doctrinally-orthodox Church. I don't care what you believe, but you certainly don't belong on a Christian forum unless you're either seeking the truth or on some really "far out" Christian forum.

If you want to discuss or even argue these things without coming here to "declare what is true," when it goes against the creeds, let me know? I can argue anything with anybody. But those who think they are God I have no patience with.