DID THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHETS SPEAK OF THE MYSTERY?

[Eternally Grateful]

the mystery is that the suffering servant and the messiah are the same person.

It is also that the messiah would come 2 times.. Once's to save as suffering servant, and one to rule as ruling messiah

the things were taught in the OT.. just the interpretations or fulfillment was unknown. or hidden

God had to hide it from satan

 

[Doug]

This is the belief of the Jehovah Witnesses or the Mormons, can't remember which one came my house and presented this teaching that I consider bizarre.

The bride is the new Jerusalem
I dont know what they teach on this but if they teach that the church in this dispensation, which is the body of Christ, inherits the new Jerusalem, they are wrong. We inherit the heavenly places.

 

[complete]

Christ did not reveal a mystery
All scripture he opened to them only spoke of his death and resurrection
Only Paul received the mystery that the cross obtained salvation freely to all

'To whom also He shewed Himself alive after His passion
by many infallible proofs,
being seen of them forty days,
and speaking of the things
pertaining to the kingdom of God:'
(Act 1:3)

Hi @Doug,

He opened the eyes of their understanding that they may understand the Scriptures. I was not suggesting that this was when they were given the revelation concerning the Mystery of Christ, for that was the work of the Holy Spirit. Yet in doing that the Lord Jesus enabled them to see Himself revealed in prophecy, and in type and shadow in the Old Testament Scriptures. How wonderful that must have been for them,, to have Him with them following His resurrection, for forty days instruction concerning the Kingdom of God.

I do not pretend to know all there is to know about this subject of 'The Mystery of Christ', and 'The Mystery', but what I do know is precious to me, so I will not allow myself to engage in argument concerning it. I just praise God for what He has given me the grace to see, and leave what I have not yet seen in His hands.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Davy]

[Luke 1:70 KJV] 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

[Romans 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

The prophets spoke since the world began, but could not have spoken of the mystery because it was kept secret since the world began. The mystery could not have been spoken of, and at the same time be kept secret.

Christ Jesus only revealed the secret mystery to Paul.

That's Hyper-Dispensationalist Theory from men, not The Bible.

Paul was not preaching any Gospel different than what the Apostles preached. And Peter actually was the first to be shown that Christ's Salvation would also go to the Gentiles, per Acts 10 & 11.


God's Old Testament prophets prophesied of God's Salvation going to the Gentiles, so I guess the men you follow forgot to read the Old Testament Books of God's prophets...

Isa 11:10
10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
KJV

Isa 42:1
42 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
KJV

Isa 42:6
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
KJV

Isa 49:6
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
KJV

Isa 49:22
22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up my standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
KJV

Isa 54:3
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

Isa 60:3
3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.
KJV

Isa 60:5
5 Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee.
KJV

Isa 66:19-21
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.
21 And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.
KJV

Hyper-Dispensationalism is a later offshoot of Darby's 1800's Dispensationalist theories that support the false pre-trib rapture theory. So it's just a doctrine of men with one piled higher on top of another, and no doubt will continue making that pile higher.

 

[Doug]

Hello @Doug,

With respect, the church which is The Body of Christ did not come into being until Paul made known the revelation of God concerning it, which was following the departure of Israel into unbelief after their final rejection, in the diaspora, of the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah and King. The quotation from Isaiah 6 in Acts 28, by Paul and the sending of salvation to the Gentiles in Acts 28:28, all mark the crises point that took place just prior to the destruction of Jerusalem, which took place in AD 70, when Israel as a nation ceased to be, and it's people were scattered among the nations.

The establishing of the church which is the Body of Christ was to mend what was broken. To say that it began earlier in the Acts is to deny the truth of Ephesians 3:8-9: That knowledge of the church which is the Body of Christ was hid in God, until it's revelation to Paul, which he subsequently made known in the prison epistles , while the Lord's Prisoner. (see Eph. Phil. Col. 2 Tim. Titus & Philemon).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

I cant find the post in which you cited these verses.............................[Eph 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

You said there were two mysteries

That is not so, the mystery is a general term, the mystery of Christ is an aspect of the mystery

There are several aspects to the mystery..........................................
[Eph 1:9 KJV] 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[Eph 6:19 KJV] 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
[2Th 2:7 KJV] 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
[1Ti 3:16 KJV] 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[Muna]

This is speaking of this........................[Exo 19:12 KJV] 12 And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, [that ye] go [not] up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:........................the people could not come too close to mount Sinai

I laid it out in the above like this...

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched...
Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

But you might see it better this way because you are just identifying what might be touched in the sense of coming to a mount that is not the heavenly mount (in blue)

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:) But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,


So if I were to rewrite it again (keeping only the red highlights in, just go with that

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched,.... But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

 

[Muna]

These verses do speak of the new Jerusalem, the bride

I missed this, I agree

 

[Muna]

Here was this found in the law and prophets..................[Hab 2:4 KJV] 4 Behold, his soul [which] is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

The faith of Abraham is also found in the reading of the law. Here is that same "just shall live by faith" repeated by Paul three times this way also

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

 

[complete]

I cant find the post in which you cited these verses.............................[Eph 3:3-4 KJV] 3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

You said there were two mysteries

That is not so, the mystery is a general term, the mystery of Christ is an aspect of the mystery

There are several aspects to the mystery..........................................
[Eph 1:9 KJV] 9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
[Eph 6:19 KJV] 19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
[2Th 2:7 KJV] 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
[1Ti 3:16 KJV] 16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hello @Doug,

I stand by what I have already said, to reiterate it is futile.

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Doug]

That's Hyper-Dispensationalist Theory from men, not The Bible.

[Rom 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

[Luk 1:70 KJV] 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

I just stated what scripture says. Is scripture hyper-dispensationalism? Tell me what you think hyper dispensationalism is

 

[Davy]

[Rom 16:25 KJV] 25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Like Peter said in 1 Peter 1, the prophets inquired and searched about the salvation they were given to prophesy about that would also go to the Gentiles. They just didn't understand it. Doesn't mean nothing was written about it in The Old Testament.

[Luk 1:70 KJV] 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

I just stated what scripture says. Is scripture hyper-dispensationalism? Tell me what you think hyper dispensationalism is

Hyperdispensationalism treats the Christian Church having officially begun with Apostle Paul, which of course is not true. Its factions argue over at what point in Acts that happened involving Paul. Because it includes the idea of Dispensationalism, it links with what John Darby, et all believed and taught, like the false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

 

[Doug]

Like Peter said in 1 Peter 1, the prophets inquired and searched about the salvation they were given to prophesy about that would also go to the Gentiles. They just didn't understand it. Doesn't mean nothing was written about it in The Old Testament.

[1Pe 1:11 KJV] 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The only thing the prophets prophesized about was his physical death and resurrection and his glory not all it accomplished. All that was accomplished was a secret only revealed to Paul

 

[Doug]

Hyperdispensationalism treats the Christian Church having officially begun with Apostle Paul, which of course is not true. Its factions argue over at what point in Acts that happened involving Paul. Because it includes the idea of Dispensationalism, it links with what John Darby, et all believed and taught, like the false Pre-trib Rapture theory.

You cant find the church the body of Christ before Paul.
You cant find anywhere before Paul that the church would inherit heavenly places.

Actually it wrong to say I am hyperdispensationalist, I am dispensational but not hyper. Hypers divide where there shouldnt be right division. They divide Paul up by saying Paul only wrote of the mystery from prison. They say only the local church in 1 Corinthians was the body of Christ. They say 1 Colossians 1:2 was written to two groups.

 

[Davy]

[1Pe 1:11 KJV] 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

The only thing the prophets prophesized about was his physical death and resurrection and his glory not all it accomplished. All that was accomplished was a secret only revealed to Paul

That Salvation would also go to the Gentiles was actually revealed to Apostle Peter first (Acts 10 & 11).

Now I posted MANY... Scriptures directly from the Book of Isaiah that prophesy about Salvation to the Gentiles. And the name Isaiah means... 'Yah is Salvation'.

So man's Hyper-Dispensationalist theories, especially the idea of TWO Gospels, is just man playing religion, twisting God's Word so they can create silly traditions.

 

[Davy]

You cant find the church the body of Christ before Paul.

I most certainly can! They are called prophets and Apostles, with Jesus Himself as its Chief Cornerstone!

Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In Whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV

 

[Doug]

Now I posted MANY... Scriptures directly from the Book of Isaiah that prophesy about Salvation to the Gentiles. And the name Isaiah means... 'Yah is Salvation'.

That God would save Gentiles was in the old testament, it was not a secret. What was a secret was the Gentiles would be members in the body of Christ along with the Jews.

 

[Davy]

That God would save Gentiles was in the old testament, it was not a secret. What was a secret was the Gentiles would be members in the body of Christ along with the Jews.

Not as much a secret as you think...

Isa 49:22
22 Thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I will lift up Mine hand to the Gentiles, and set up My standard to the people: and they shall bring thy sons in their arms, and thy daughters shall be carried upon their shoulders.
KJV

Isa 54:3
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
KJV

Isa 66:19-20
19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard My fame, neither have seen My glory; and they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles.
20 And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to My holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD
KJV

 

[marks]

That God would save Gentiles was in the old testament, it was not a secret. What was a secret was the Gentiles would be members in the body of Christ along with the Jews.

Prior to Christ, the Gentiles joined Israel to be able to enter covenant with God. After Christ came, now both Jew and Gentile are baptized into Christ, making of the two "one new man", without the need of joining Israel.

Much love!

 

[Doug]

So man's Hyper-Dispensationalist theories, especially the idea of TWO Gospels, is just man playing religion, twisting God's Word so they can create silly traditions.

Actually we say there is more than two gospels
Here is my post from this forum

MORE THAN ONE BIBLE GOSPEL​

 

[Doug]

I most certainly can! They are called prophets and Apostles, with Jesus Himself as its Chief Cornerstone!

Eph 2:19-22
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In Whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In Whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
KJV

First of all there were prophets and apostles in Paul's day as well

Being built on the apostles and prophets and Christ is not saying they spoke of the body of Christ before Paul

Show me one scripture from the old testament or from the four gospels that speaks of the body of Christ