Is it possible to lose salvation?

[GodsGrace]

Exactly.

We are not cannibals and vampires.

I also asked the other poster.

Why would Jesus have wanted the people to walk away??

 

[GodsGrace]

Regarding those who left, I think the crux is :

John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Referring to v44

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

All in the context of : He came to his own, and his own people did not receive him -- John 1:11

I don't understand ProDeo and this is important to me.
This chapter is why, eventually after much study and pondering, I have come to the conclusion
that Jesus meant His body,,,,His flesh...that we are somehow to consume HIM.

Could you connect John 6:65 to John 6:44?

If you don't have the time,,it's OK.

 

[nedsk]

why would Jesus want people to walk away??

And why would they want to walk away if he was only speaking figuratively?

 

[GodsGrace]

everyone who took it literally walked away

Peter while he may not understood.. Understood what truly gives eternal life (your words)

Peter didn't walk away because Jesus was teaching them about life, about salvation...
Jesus had the life and He was passing it on.
Jesus also told them John 6:53
OK
I'll stop after this.

 

[GodsGrace]

I don;t

I have the words of eternal life AS THE FLESH.

It is the knowl;edge that Jesus would die that saves us. and our faith in that truth.. so Jesus is telling us to gnaw and chew on those words.

Because they did not believe, why would he call them back. what more could he say to convince them that he has this food which endures forever?

Remember, they thought they needed fed physical food. they were their for miracles. they did not think they needed saved



Yeah we know. you want to earn your salvation by your works of righteousness.

Well as Paul told titus. It is not by works of righteousness which we have done (like communion and water baptism) but by his mercy he saved us

Actually EG....
Communion and Baptism apply AFTER one is born again.
So they are NOT works of righteousness.

You should chew on Jesus words some more..

Oh the words of eternal life are real.

And those uf us born of that understand it..

 

[GodsGrace]

Regarding the value of the Last Supper, my understanding of course.

Luke 22:14 And when the hour came, he reclined at table, and the apostles with him.
Luke 22:15 And he said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer.

And the Church rightly took notice of Jesus strong desire and made it an institution.

And so as a remembrance I take the bread (a symbol of Jesus body, I am not a cannibal), thank Him for sacrificing his body of the cross -- and more things I am thankful for -- as a remembrance drink the wine (a symbol of Jesus shed blood for the forgiveness of my sins, I am not a vampire) -- and more things I am thankful for --

As such was the understanding of the churches I have visited in the last 50 years.

OK
Yes. I think we should stop discussing this.
A remembrance is different than doing something in the memory of someone or something.

Lutherans believe in the Real Presence.
Anabaptists also.
More but I can't think which denominations right now..
oh and the Catholic Church.

And some ECFs.

 

[nedsk]

OK
Yes. I think we should stop discussing this.
A remembrance is different than doing something in the memory of someone or something.

Lutherans believe in the Real Presence.
Anabaptists also.
More but I can't think which denominations right now..
oh and the Catholic Church.

And some ECFs.

And for 1500 years the entirety of Christianity believed it but somehow all the people that lived and defended it before then were mislead and wrong. Its fascinating

 

[GodsGrace]

And for 1500 years the entirety of Christianity believed it but somehow all the people that lived and defended it before then were mislead and wrong. Its fascinating

I have often stated the same in regard to other teachings.
Surely what has come about after 1,500AD that changes what the early church taught cannot be true.
But I don't find that the ECFs were in 100% agreement on this.
I don't claim to be 100% sure about everything...
and I'm not the type to just accept what I'm told...
which is why I cannot define myself as Catholic.

 

[GodsGrace]

And why would they want to walk away if he was only speaking figuratively?

Exactly my point....

 

[nedsk]

I have often stated the same in regard to other teachings.
Surely what has come about after 1,500AD that changes what the early church taught cannot be true.
But I don't find that the ECFs were in 100% agreement on this.
I don't claim to be 100% sure about everything...
and I'm not the type to just accept what I'm told...
which is why I cannot define myself as Catholic.

I understand but as I've said before only one church can even begin to try and trace its history back to Peter. If thats true, then if there ever was a church that you could just accept what you're told, it might be that church.

 

[ProDeo]

I also asked the other poster.

Why would Jesus have wanted the people to walk away??

John 6:22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone.
John 6:23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
John 6:24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.
John 6:25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?”
John 6:26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.

 

[GodsGrace]

John 6:22 On the next day the crowd that remained on the other side of the sea saw that there had been only one boat there, and that Jesus had not entered the boat with his disciples, but that his disciples had gone away alone.
John 6:23 Other boats from Tiberias came near the place where they had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
John 6:24 So when the crowd saw that Jesus was not there, nor his disciples, they themselves got into the boats and went to Capernaum, seeking Jesus.
John 6:25 When they found him on the other side of the sea, they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you come here?”
John 6:26 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, you are seeking me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate your fill of the loaves.

Yes. I've considered this.
They came probably looking for more real food, bread and fish.
But they left when Jesus said they must eat HIS flesh.
OK
I get your point.

 

[ProDeo]

@all

Lev 17:10 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
Lev 17:13 “Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.
Lev 17:14 For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.

How could Jesus (God in the flesh) go against His own Law ???

 

[LoveYeshua]

I don't think our RCC friends walked away, they misunderstand the John 6 passage. Is it not interesting the last Supper isn't even mentioned in the gospel of John ?

I did not remember this, but John complements the other three synoptic gospels very well on a higher spiritual level.

I do not want to ignore people but if he persists on this topic I will no longer respond. we all tried even all the commentaries I dug up say Jesus meant very obviously spiritual and not literal eating flesh and drinking Christ's blood wich is truly absurd to a high degree.

I was born in Montréal, Québec we all ( french speaking people ) went to RCC churches and schools but I do not remember the priests or nuns saying we had to drink the blood of Christ, from what I remember they said the ceremony was purely symbolic and to remenber! but I will verify I may still have what we called "catéchèse" a small book with all the rituals, what to do and not to do... lol.

Blessings.

 

[GodsGrace]

I did not remember this, but John complements the other three synoptic gospels very well on a higher spiritual level.

I do not want to ignore people but if he persists on this topic I will no longer respond. we all tried even all the commentaries I dug up say Jesus meant very obviously spiritual and not literal eating flesh and drinking Christ's blood wich is truly absurd to a high degree.

I was born in Montréal, Québec we all ( french speaking people ) went to RCC churches and schools but I do not remember the priests or nuns saying we had to drink the blood of Christ, from what I remember they said the ceremony was purely symbolic and to remenber! but I will verify I may still have what we called "catéchèse" a small book with all the rituals, what to do and not to do... lol.

Blessings.

I gave you a laugh LoveYeshua because the CC absolutely teaches that the bread is the body and the wine is the blood.
This is called transubstantiation.
It happens at the consecration of the host.

In nature we have form and we have substance.
The substance always remains the same but the form changes.
For instance, a tree can become a chair.
The substance is still wood...
but the form changes from a tree to a chair.

With the host it's the opposite.
The form remains the same (the host)
but the substance changes (to the body).

Also, one does not have to offer both the host and the wine.
Both the body and blood are in either the bread or the wine.

It's actually a very beautiful celebration.

 

[LoveYeshua]

Exactly my point....

the answer is here;

Jhn 6:64 However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Jhn 6:65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Jhn 6:66 From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.

Jhn 6:67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

Jhn 6:68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Jhn 6:69 We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God.”

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

 

[GodsGrace]

the answer is here;

Jhn 6:64 However, there are some of you who do not believe.” (For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray Him.)

Jhn 6:65 Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him.”

Jhn 6:66 From that time on many of His disciples turned back and no longer walked with Him.

Jhn 6:67 So Jesus asked the Twelve, “Do you want to leave too?”

Jhn 6:68 Simon Peter replied, “Lord, to whom would we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Jhn 6:69 We believe and know that You are the Holy One of God.”

Jhn 6:70 Jesus answered them, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!”

Will be thinking, thinking, thinking....

 

[LoveYeshua]

I gave you a laugh LoveYeshua because the CC absolutely teaches that the bread is the body and the wine is the blood.
This is called transubstantiation.
It happens at the consecration of the host.

In nature we have form and we have substance.
The substance always remains the same but the form changes.
For instance, a tree can become a chair.
The substance is still wood...
but the form changes from a tree to a chair.

With the host it's the opposite.
The form remains the same (the host)
but the substance changes (to the body).

Also, one does not have to offer both the host and the wine.
Both the body and blood are in either the bread or the wine.

It's actually a very beautiful celebration.

confirmed! they do teach this... i found a pdf version of it. but i never thought they were serious.... LOL

 

[nedsk]

@all

Lev 17:10 “If any one of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn among them eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from among his people.
Lev 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it for you on the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that makes atonement by the life.
Lev 17:12 Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who sojourns among you eat blood.
Lev 17:13 “Any one also of the people of Israel, or of the strangers who sojourn among them, who takes in hunting any beast or bird that may be eaten shall pour out its blood and cover it with earth.
Lev 17:14 For the life of every creature is its blood: its blood is its life. Therefore I have said to the people of Israel, You shall not eat the blood of any creature, for the life of every creature is its blood. Whoever eats it shall be cut off.

How could Jesus (God in the flesh) go against His own Law ???

Jesus/God broke the laws, healing and picking wheat on the sabbath and not doing ritual hand washing. You can follow the law and be a horrible human being. And if it's his law he can change it as he will. If only God would do what you like huh?

 

[ProDeo]

I did not remember this, but John complements the other three synoptic gospels very well on a higher spiritual level.

I do not want to ignore people but if he persists on this topic I will no longer respond. we all tried even all the commentaries I dug up say Jesus meant very obviously spiritual and not literal eating flesh and drinking Christ's blood wich is truly absurd to a high degree.

I was born in Montréal, Québec we all ( french speaking people ) went to RCC churches and schools but I do not remember the priests or nuns saying we had to drink the blood of Christ, from what I remember they said the ceremony was purely symbolic and to remenber! but I will verify I may still have what we called "catéchèse" a small book with all the rituals, what to do and not to do... lol.

Blessings.

John 13 (the whole chapter) is very interesting, it is also about the last supper, but the story takes a different direction, Jesus washing the feet of the disciples. And that would mean for the literalist among us another holy institution, because Jesus says :

John 13:14 If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet.
John 13:15 For I have given you an example, that you also should do just as I have done to you.

There are churches who do that on a frequent base.