Jesus is God

[PS95]

I am speaking of Jesus being begotten of God when he was raised from the dead which is where he openly declared to be the Son of God.

I have tried so many times to justify that with other scripture. I could not.
I have always held that Jesus was begotten in the womb/ at birth as the Son of God- that is what the angel said- he would be called the son of God due to His unique birth.

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. luke 1:35


I just found this scholar's article- he sees that also.- it's not long- have a read-

When was Jesus Christ Begotten?

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee, Psalm2:7. For many years I linked this verse to John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. In fact...

www.purecambridgetext.com

As a side note- I do see where the church got eternally begotten- combo scripture and ECF's- it's just such a stretch tho.

 

[Muna]

I have tried so many times to justify that with other scripture. I could not.
I have always held that Jesus was begotten in the womb/ at birth as the Son of God- that is what the angel said- he would be called the son of God due to His unique birth.

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. luke 1:35


I just found this scholar's article- he sees that also.- it's not long- have a read-

When was Jesus Christ Begotten?

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee, Psalm2:7. For many years I linked this verse to John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. In fact...

www.purecambridgetext.com

As a side note- I do see where the church got eternally begotten- combo scripture and ECF's- it's just such a stretch tho.

Jesus is the WORD made flesh, so indeed he SHALL be called the Son of God, so I dont see the conflict at all.

He is both the Son of man and Son of God, and it even says, " Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

 

[GodsGrace]

And yet Justin Martyr thinks fire is the Jesus. He was wrong, and without it, there is no Jman except Jesus son of Nun

Justin Martyr?
You want to go by the ECFs?

OK

Here are statements by
Ignatius of Antioch circa 110AD taught by Peter and John

Ignatius of Antioch​

“Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . predestined from eternity for a glory that is lasting and unchanging, united and chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

“[T]o the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God, by the will of him that has willed everything which is” (Letter to the Romans 1 [A.D. 110]).


Tytaian the Syrian 170AD
“We are not playing the fool, you Greeks, nor do we talk nonsense, when we report that God was born in the form of a man” (Address to the Greeks 21 [A.D. 170]).


Justin Martyr 160AD
For Christ is King, Priest, God, Lord, Angel, and Man.


Irenaeus 180AD
...He is the holy Lord, the Wonderful, the Counselor, the Beautiful in appearance, and the Mighty God.


Ireneaeus 189AD
....in order that to Jesus Christ our Lord and God and Savior and King, in accord with the approval of the invisible Father, every knee shall bend of those in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

Melito of Sardis​

“The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh. Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism, of his humanity, in the thirty years which came before his baptism, during which, by reason of his condition according to the flesh, he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Fragment in Anastasius of Sinai’s The Guide 13 [A.D. 177]).


Clement of Alexandria 190AD
...“The Word, then, the Christ, is the cause both of our ancient beginning—for he was in God—and of our well-being. And now this same Word has appeared as man. He alone is both God and man, and the source of all our good things” (Exhortation to the Greeks 1:7:1 [A.D. 190]).

source: A Dictionary of Early Christian Beliefs
David W. Bercot


Justin Martyr believed Jesus is God.
Perhaps you could post your source for the statement you posted by him?

 

[Waiting on him]

I have tried so many times to justify that with other scripture. I could not.
I have always held that Jesus was begotten in the womb/ at birth as the Son of God- that is what the angel said- he would be called the son of God due to His unique birth.

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. luke 1:35


I just found this scholar's article- he sees that also.- it's not long- have a read-

When was Jesus Christ Begotten?

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee, Psalm2:7. For many years I linked this verse to John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. In fact...

www.purecambridgetext.com

As a side note- I do see where the church got eternally begotten- combo scripture and ECF's- it's just such a stretch tho.

The carnal mind can see only what is earthy. Once born of God from above the spiritual is manifest.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
— Galatians 4:23-27

If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
— Psalm 137:6

There is great reason behind calling them the messianic psalms.

 

[PS95]

Jesus is the WORD made flesh, so indeed he SHALL be called the Son of God, so I don't see the conflict at all.

I agree with you. I was only replying to the resurrection/begotten verse.

He is both the Son of man and Son of God, and it even says, " Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered

Yes, Agree. Son of Mary & SON OF GOD.
= begotten

 

[Muna]

I agree with you. I was only replying to the resurrection/begotten verse.

Yes, Agree. Son of Mary & SON OF GOD.
= begotten

Okay, I think I was misreading you, I wasnt sure if you were trying to make the death part fit into the begotten scenario, or if you just disagreed with the begotten part in the death part scenario, or if you thought I was denying Jesus was begat by Mary (even though I am separating the scenarios), or just how you were reasoning with it. I got ten things going at the same time on my end.

Why does this happen at the worse of times

 

[Behold]

Sorry, I am canning tomatoes today and havent that much time to answer as fully as I would like, but this deserves a better response than some chicken scratch back at cha.

If you want to find out if Jesus is God........

Then what you do, is notice who Jesus was before He was virgin born, in a body.

= He is John 1".. """"""And the WORD was God."""""

This is explained as JESUS in a Body, as "God manifested in the Flesh".... and "The WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us".

So, what we have to grasp is this ...

God said .....>"let there be"... and it all began.
And Jesus is the pre-incarnate WORD.......

So, God SPOKE CREATION into Existance,.......... and JESUS preincarnate IS THE WORD.

Then we go to 1 John 1:10, and we read that JESUS = CREATED (made) the "WORLD".

So, putting this all together.... we see that God Spoke, and Jesus Preincarnate is the WORD.. and Jesus on the Earth is "God manifested in the Flesh"... who "CREATED the World".

So who is the Creator?

"Jesus made the World""" John 1:10

When?

When God Spoke the WORD of Creation, and Jesus is the Pre-incarnate "WORD"... who "became Flesh and dwelt among us".

 

[Muna]

If you want to find out if Jesus is God........

Then what you do, is notice who Jesus was before He was virgin born, in a body.

= He is John 1".. """"""And the WORD was God."""""

This is explained as JESUS in a Body, as "God manifested in the Flesh".... and "The WORD was made flesh, and dwelt among us".

So, what we have to grasp is this ...

God said .....>"let there be"... and it all began.
And Jesus is the pre-incarnate WORD.......

So, God SPOKE CREATION into Existance,.......... and JESUS preincarnate IS THE WORD.

Then we go to 1 John 1:10, and we read that JESUS = CREATED (made) the "WORLD".

So, putting this all together.... we see that God Spoke, and Jesus Preincarnate is the WORD.. and Jesus on the Earth is "God manifested in the Flesh"... who "CREATED the World".

So who is the Creator?

"Jesus made the World""" John 1:10

When?

When God Spoke the WORD of Creation, and Jesus is the Pre-incarnate "WORD"... who "became Flesh and dwelt among us".

Its like talking to a wall

 

[PS95]

The carnal mind can see only what is earthy. Once born of God from above the spiritual is manifest.

Well hello. I don't know you and you don't know me, and this is how you introduce yourself? It's probably a good idea to go back to never meeting.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
— Galatians 4:23-27

If I do not remember thee, let my tongue cleave to the roof of my mouth; if I prefer not Jerusalem above my chief joy.
— Psalm 137:6

There is great reason behind calling them the messianic psalms.

Oh boy. I think we have a live one here..

 

[Muna]

1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Who is the Word made flesh

John 1:1 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

Ephes 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

I changed that, between stirring lol

 

[PS95]

Sorry, I am canning tomatoes today and havent that much time to answer as fully as I would like, but this deserves a better response than some chicken scr

I'm inundated with tomatoes as well! I just blanch them to remove the skins easily and freeze them in bags for cooking over the winter. Faster than canning!!
I just picked a slew of eggplants and peppers too. Thanking God for the harvest!

 

[Muna]

I'm inundated with tomatoes as well! I just blanch them to remove the skins easily and freeze them in bags for cooking over the winter. Faster than canning!!
I just picked a slew of eggplants and peppers too. Thanking God for the harvest!

Amen! And you know, I dont even blanch mine, when I gather them daily at their ripest times, I immediately wash them remove the cores only and freeze them. When I pull them out to make sauce I dump the frozen tomatoes into large pots to defrost over night and the skins come right off (no need to even blanch them) becaise being in the freezer causes them to lose all of their water the skins fall right off, and losing their water also makes for a nice thick sauce.

 

[MonoBiblical]

Melito: The activities of Christ after his baptism, and especially his miracles, gave indication and assurance to the world of the deity hidden in his flesh

[Jhn 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have tried so many times to justify that with other scripture. I could not.
I have always held that Jesus was begotten in the womb/ at birth as the Son of God- that is what the angel said- he would be called the son of God due to His unique birth.

The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God. luke 1:35


I just found this scholar's article- he sees that also.- it's not long- have a read-

When was Jesus Christ Begotten?

I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee, Psalm2:7. For many years I linked this verse to John 1:18, No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. In fact...

www.purecambridgetext.com

As a side note- I do see where the church got eternally begotten- combo scripture and ECF's- it's just such a stretch tho.

PS95
Just fell on this when I opened the Forum,
I don't really like to discuss this topic.
It is my firm belief that Christians should not be debating the Divinity of Jesus.
The number one requirement for a person to be defined as Christian is that they are to believe that Jesus is God.
JWs, for example, like to define themselves as Christian - but they are not.
(not to mean that they are not saved - but they are not Christian)

So, I just want to say this regarding your above post...
either Jesus was God always
or
He was never God.

To be God He had to exist before anything...at the beginning, as the NT states that He did.

Some will even say that He BECAME God at his baptism.

These are all concepts that are not theologically correct for the Christian faith.

You look at Luke 1:35...but what about all the verses that state that Jesus was from the beginning??

The attached regards statements by the ECFs regarding the Divinity of Jesus.
I'm just going to link it....if you or anyone reading along is interested.


Christ’s divinity is shown over and over again in the New Testament. For example, in John 5:18 we are told that Jesus’ opponents sought to kill him because he “called God his Father, making himself equal with God.”


In John 8:58, when quizzed about how he has special knowledge of Abraham, Jesus replies, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I Am”—invoking and applying to himself the personal name of God—“I Am” (Ex. 3:14). His audience understood exactly what he was claiming about himself. “So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple” (John 8:59).
In John 20:28, Thomas falls at Jesus’ feet, exclaiming, “My Lord and my God!” (Greek: Ho Kurios mou kai ho Theos mou—literally, “The Lord of me and the God of me!”)


In Philippians 2:6, Paul tells us that Christ Jesus “[w]ho, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped” (New International Version). So Jesus chose to be born in humble, human form though he could have simply remained in equal glory with the Father for he was “in very nature God.”


Also significant are passages that apply the title “the First and the Last” to Jesus. This is one of the Old Testament titles of Yahweh: “Thus says Yahweh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, Yahweh of armies: ‘I am the First and I am the Last; besides me there is no god’” (Isa. 44:6; cf. 41:4, 48:12).


This title is directly applied to Jesus three times in the book of Revelation: “When I saw him [Christ], I fell at his feet as though dead. But he laid his right hand upon me, saying, ‘Fear not, I am the First and the Last’” (Rev. 1:17). “And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write: ‘The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life’” (Rev. 2:8). “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense, to repay everyone for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end” (Rev. 22:12–13).


This last quote is especially significant since it applies to Jesus the parallel title “the Alpha and the Omega,” which Revelation earlier applied to the Lord God: “‘I am the Alpha and the Omega,’ says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty” (Rev. 1:8).

source: What the Early Church Believed: The Divinity of Christ

 

[GodsGrace]

[Jhn 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

I don't know what you mean by this MonoBiblical.

I also don't care to discuss the Divinity of Jesus.

IF a person wants to call himself CHRISTIAN then he must believe Jesus is God and he must believe in the trintiy.
Otherwise the definition of Christian will not be correct.

Jesus is the Word of God...the Logos.
God always had a word...He always had logos...reason.

This word/logos became human.
Thus God became human.

The Trinity.
Very easy to understand if one wants to.

Or they could fight it all the way...l
but they should also stop calling themselves Christian.

 

[Muna]

[Jhn 3:2 KJV] 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

God with Jesus

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Would also be "God with us"

John 10:32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

 

[GodsGrace]

What is ignorant is believing the Greek and Hebrew articles are definitive.

Do you speak any foreign languages?
I don't think so.

In a foreign language having no article is sometimes impossible.

Even if it stated:
IN THE BEGINNING WAS WORD AND WORD WAS GOD

NOTHING would change.
John is still teaching that this WORD that was in the beginning and WAS GOD
became flesh.
John 1:14
14And the Word became flesh.

 

[GodsGrace]

You’re the one missing it. As I said, you cited a passage that affirms Jesus died and rose on the third day, yet you deny he actually died.

Sure Hidden.
Maybe you could post when you've had your morning coffee.

 

[PS95]

1 Cr 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Side note--
1 Cor 8:6- Obviously, God the Father is also called, Lord. -
by Jesus
At that time Jesus said, “I praise You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and intelligent, and have revealed them to infants.- Matt 11:25

and here--

Rev 11:15
Then the seventh angel sounded; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” ( this is NOT the tetragrammaton- YHWH)

And we know that Jesus is also called God- if you want the verses let me know..
So Paul's meaning there is contextually, there are many false gods and lords (v. 5)-and so..
Look at the first 3 words of 1 Cor 8:6
BUT TO US- there is but one God and one Lord.
These are interchangeable titles obviously or else the scriptures are wrong---
but to them~~ they designated the titles that way in order to differentiate when speaking.
See the difference?
I know of no other way to read that, truthfully.

 

[GodsGrace]

What became flesh was the spoken word of God. Jesus continually telling the religious dictators of his time
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
— Matthew 10:20

Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
— John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
— John 8:28

I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
— John 8:38

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.
— John 12:49-50

Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
— John 14:10

These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
— John 16:25


It’s the spoken word of God. That’s what became flesh Matthew 10:20 clearly teaches that when the spirit of God Speaks through one of his children that is the word of God.

Oh. Thanks.

And you REALLY think I'm going to have a serious conversation with you?
LOL

Funny stuff Waiting.